EV Digest 7039
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Ideal conversion candidate? Aussies are Lucky.
by Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Amost Live from PIR, 1st Update
by Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Motor Configuration
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Motor Configuration
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) LED headlights- new development!
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: What will it take to get White Zombie into the 10's?
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: What will it take to get White Zombie into the 10's?
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: What will it take to get White Zombie into the 10's?
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: What will it take to get White Zombie into the 10's?
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV digest 7038
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Th!nk - Can it PASS the Crash TEST ??
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: LED headlights- new development!
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Mark Fowler's take on the Wayland Invitational - and Otmars AC control
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Mark Fowler's take on the Wayland Invitational - and Otmars AC
control
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: 4002 vs. ADC 8"
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Information needed please.
by "Aaron Choate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: What will it take to get White Zombie into the 10's?
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Henney Kilowatt controller, was: Information needed please.
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Land of the Midnight Run
by "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: batteries: another increasing range question
by "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
But if you fill the tray of your ute with batteries, where do you put
your dog?
http://doginaute.corrigin.wa.gov.au/
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Shaun Williams
Sent: Friday, 13 July 2007 5:10 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Ideal conversion candidate? Aussies are Lucky.
Ah yes, the quintessential Aussie automotive icon, the ute. The "Work
Hard, Play Hard" boys toy.
They're pretty heavy at around 1600+kg (3500lb) but could carry the
1/3 lead required. I'm not sure I've heard of one been converted though.
I think some might consider the very idea sacrilegious! Mmm, food for
thought though.
http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/vehicleentry?vehicleid=15
http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/ContentServer?cid=1137384216525&pagename=
Page&c=DFYPage
If you ever come back this way Peter and happen to be passing though
BrizVegas I'd be very keen to give you the electric-echo experience!
:-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's my youtube vids...
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=wayland+invitational
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jukka Järvinen
Sent: Saturday, 14 July 2007 12:59 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Amost Live from PIR, 1st Update
AWESOME NEWS !
I wish I could be there... -*sob*-....
pls.. upload videos to Youtube as soon as possible..
-Jukka
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I couldn't think of a better word than "configuration" to sum up the
topic of this question.
Anyway, is it harmful to have a motor (it's a DC motor from Currie)
arranged upside down or at its side?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey J
Nope it doesn't.
Cya
Jim Husted
--- "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I couldn't think of a better word than
> "configuration" to sum up the
> topic of this question.
>
> Anyway, is it harmful to have a motor (it's a DC
> motor from Currie)
> arranged upside down or at its side?
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the
tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh check this out!
A couple of weeks ago I was mentioning that the Luxeon Rebels have
achieved power levels that make it practical to make LED headlights.
Well Luxeon just pulled a fast one. Their 0070 part suddenly became
obsolete as their line achieved 0100. So with zero increase in
electrical power, it's now making 180 lumens instead of 130 lumens
@2.38W. That's a simultaneous leap in both efficiency and output per
device. I have dealt with them and the thermal issues are not
particularly bad and achieving the full rating in a real-world
application should not be all that difficult.
So Wikipedia says the first halogens headlights (still around) are 700
lumens on low beam. This would have required 6 devices per side, now
we're down to 4 per side.
As a reminder, this may not be legal for public roadways and given its
radically different appearance may realistically elicit a traffic stop.
With this efficiency hike they are significantly more efficient than
halogens, yet since headlights do not constitute a significant range
loss to begin with it's not likely to make a big whoop of range
difference if it made all the light in the world on zero electrical power.
It would, however, be cool.
I'd be willing to prototype some for someone in the Austin area at a
pretty low cost just for the fun of it.
Danny
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
About getting White Zombie into the 10s, Ryan Stotts wrote:
What would it take, what would it need?
Saturday night, we only had one chance a sub 11.5 second run, be that a
low 11 or if all the planets were aligned perfectly, a high 10. Without
the required safety gear, once you break through the 11.5 second
barrier, it's off the track you go. I had one chance to see what the car
could do with the A123 lithiums cranked all the way up, and at the same
time, one chance to go under 11.5.
Tim wanted to dial back the launch current to get the tires to stick.
Though I felt he was right, I also felt that if we did turn it down and
then ran an 11.4 or something, we'd never know if we 'could have' turned
it all the way up and maybe blasted into a high 10. It was quite a dilemma.
I over-rode Tim and ran the full 2000 amps in both series and parallel
modes, and I also turned the A123 pack up to its full 1400 amp furry. We
ran an 11.4.
I was wrong...Tim was right. The launch suffered from excessive wheel
spin and we lost a quick 1/10th second in the 60 ft....that would have
made that 11.4 run an 11.3 run right there. Once the tires started
spinning there was no stopping the hp from taking over and the car
continued to spin the tires way past the 60 ft. and past 100 ft., too.
You can hear and see this in Mark Fowler's video of the run. In fact,
you can see White Zombie mildly fish-tailing for quite a ways until it
finally hooks up...that was good for probably another 2/10ths second and
the theoretical 11.3 would have then been an 11.1. When the car sticks
instead of spinning the tires, in addition to the obvious time not lost
spinning, is the fact that the car tends to get to higher speed
sooner...this factor would have wiped away another 2/10ths or so, and
the Zombie could have indeed, run a 10.9 ET Saturday night!
Would it take? A better decision by me last Saturday night! OK, maybe a
few more tries at dialing everything in, too. Tim, I, and many others
there that night all agree the car with that lithium pack can run the
10s right now with nothing else changed. On one run, the car did a
scorching 7.1 second 1/8th mile, which when compared to other cars that
run that type of 1/8th mile ET, translates to a 10.6 - 10.8 quarter
mile! The 10 that got away?
What's the street range like with those A123's?
Keep in mind, it was a suitcase-sized pack of lithium sitting in the
trunk of the car, that only weighed 175 lbs. With the 844 lb. lead acid
pack, the car has an estimated 35 miles range driven briskly, and
probably a 50 mile range driven at 40-45 mph with a less aggressive
right foot. We of course, had no time to test range per charge, nor did
we care about it. That said though, I was able to drive the 16 miles to
the track effortlessly with the pack not sagging one bit from the time I
left the house till the time I got to the track...seriously! Sure, the
voltage fluctuates with varying loads, but not nearly as much as with
the lead acid pack, but the average pack voltage observed under a 45 mph
cruise did not change one bit from when I left to when I arrived at the
track...incredibly flat discharge curve, these A123 lithiums! I got to
the track and the lithiums didn't even break a sweat! We probably could
have taken the car right to the track and run a sub-12 second
ET....without charging first!
Friday night after recharging the pack the final time, I started to
drive it home and got about 1/3 the way before having a problem that
shut down the car (more on this when I get to my full length post) and
had me coasting to a stop at the side of the road. We towed it home. The
next day, I never bothered to freshen the pack back up and simply drove
back to the track...again, the discharge curve stayed flat, and the pack
was hovering at the same voltage by the time I got to the track. That
was probably 21 miles on one charge, and the 175 lb. pack still had
juice to give! At about 1/5th the weight of the lead acid pack, I
believe the A123 lithium pack can deliver its rated ~ 20 ahrs easily.
The 844 lb. lead acid pack is rated at 32 ahrs, but that's at the 10 hr.
rate - at the 1 hr. rate it is probably closer to 17-20 ahrs of
deliverable juice powering the car. White Zombie only draws about 1/2
ahr per mile at 55 mph with a 360V pack, so with 20 ahrs available from
a 374V A123 lithium pack, that works out to be 40 miles at highway
speeds...this, while not factoring in the car's reduced weight (722 lbs.
lighter). So the answer is, I'd expect this tiny 175 lb. pack to give
up to 50 miles at 40-45 mph. A 400 lb. pack would easily give White
Zombie 100 miles range at highway speeds.
These A123 cells seem to be the holy grail! It was fun trying them
out...now where did I put those beautiful orange Enersys batteries?
See Ya....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> These A123 cells seem to be the holy grail! It was
> fun trying them
> out...now where did I put those beautiful orange
> Enersys batteries?
I loaded them in my truck when you weren't looking 8^o
Dick said I could have them, hehe. Mumbled something
about you being a traitoress bastard or to that effect
8^P
Cya
Jim
____________________________________________________________________________________
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you have a few spare coins to throw at it, a "full Zilla" pack of
A123 Systems nano-phospate cells could possibly push the Zombie into the 10's.
The spare KillaCycle pack is 110 series by 8 parallel (110S
x 8P). It can put out about 26 kW (351 HP) The Zombie would go much
faster with a 110S x 10P that would deliver just over 1700 amps. This
would be every amp that the Zilla 2K is capable of drawing in from a
battery pack.
This would be about 170 lbs of cells and would be about a
200 lb complete battery pack. It would deliver about 328 kW (440 HP).
You would also want to mount the pack a bit higher in the
car than it is at the moment. Since the tires spin, this would
suggest that the CG is a bit too low. It is also possible that they
are ramping the current too quickly off the line, not giving the car
a chance to wrinkle the tires and transfer the weight to the rear.
This is just a guess on my part, however.
Bill Dube'
At 11:05 PM 7/17/2007, you wrote:
Hello to All,
About getting White Zombie into the 10s, Ryan Stotts wrote:
What would it take, what would it need?
Saturday night, we only had one chance a sub 11.5 second run, be
that a low 11 or if all the planets were aligned perfectly, a high
10. Without the required safety gear, once you break through the
11.5 second barrier, it's off the track you go. I had one chance to
see what the car could do with the A123 lithiums cranked all the way
up, and at the same time, one chance to go under 11.5.
Tim wanted to dial back the launch current to get the tires to
stick. Though I felt he was right, I also felt that if we did turn
it down and then ran an 11.4 or something, we'd never know if we
'could have' turned it all the way up and maybe blasted into a high
10. It was quite a dilemma.
I over-rode Tim and ran the full 2000 amps in both series and
parallel modes, and I also turned the A123 pack up to its full 1400
amp furry. We ran an 11.4.
I was wrong...Tim was right. The launch suffered from excessive
wheel spin and we lost a quick 1/10th second in the 60 ft....that
would have made that 11.4 run an 11.3 run right there. Once the
tires started spinning there was no stopping the hp from taking over
and the car continued to spin the tires way past the 60 ft. and past
100 ft., too. You can hear and see this in Mark Fowler's video of
the run. In fact, you can see White Zombie mildly fish-tailing for
quite a ways until it finally hooks up...that was good for probably
another 2/10ths second and the theoretical 11.3 would have then
been an 11.1. When the car sticks instead of spinning the tires, in
addition to the obvious time not lost spinning, is the fact that the
car tends to get to higher speed sooner...this factor would have
wiped away another 2/10ths or so, and the Zombie could have indeed,
run a 10.9 ET Saturday night!
Would it take? A better decision by me last Saturday night! OK,
maybe a few more tries at dialing everything in, too. Tim, I, and
many others there that night all agree the car with that lithium
pack can run the 10s right now with nothing else changed. On one
run, the car did a scorching 7.1 second 1/8th mile, which when
compared to other cars that run that type of 1/8th mile ET,
translates to a 10.6 - 10.8 quarter mile! The 10 that got away?
What's the street range like with those A123's?
Keep in mind, it was a suitcase-sized pack of lithium sitting in the
trunk of the car, that only weighed 175 lbs. With the 844 lb. lead
acid pack, the car has an estimated 35 miles range driven briskly,
and probably a 50 mile range driven at 40-45 mph with a less
aggressive right foot. We of course, had no time to test range per
charge, nor did we care about it. That said though, I was able to
drive the 16 miles to the track effortlessly with the pack not
sagging one bit from the time I left the house till the time I got
to the track...seriously! Sure, the voltage fluctuates with varying
loads, but not nearly as much as with the lead acid pack, but the
average pack voltage observed under a 45 mph cruise did not change
one bit from when I left to when I arrived at the track...incredibly
flat discharge curve, these A123 lithiums! I got to the track and
the lithiums didn't even break a sweat! We probably could have taken
the car right to the track and run a sub-12 second ET....without
charging first!
Friday night after recharging the pack the final time, I started to
drive it home and got about 1/3 the way before having a problem that
shut down the car (more on this when I get to my full length post)
and had me coasting to a stop at the side of the road. We towed it
home. The next day, I never bothered to freshen the pack back up and
simply drove back to the track...again, the discharge curve stayed
flat, and the pack was hovering at the same voltage by the time I
got to the track. That was probably 21 miles on one charge, and the
175 lb. pack still had juice to give! At about 1/5th the weight of
the lead acid pack, I believe the A123 lithium pack can deliver its
rated ~ 20 ahrs easily. The 844 lb. lead acid pack is rated at 32
ahrs, but that's at the 10 hr. rate - at the 1 hr. rate it is
probably closer to 17-20 ahrs of deliverable juice powering the car.
White Zombie only draws about 1/2 ahr per mile at 55 mph with a 360V
pack, so with 20 ahrs available from a 374V A123 lithium pack, that
works out to be 40 miles at highway speeds...this, while not
factoring in the car's reduced weight (722 lbs. lighter). So the
answer is, I'd expect this tiny 175 lb. pack to give up to 50 miles
at 40-45 mph. A 400 lb. pack would easily give White Zombie 100
miles range at highway speeds.
These A123 cells seem to be the holy grail! It was fun trying them
out...now where did I put those beautiful orange Enersys batteries?
See Ya....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
how about 4WD?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually I'm pretty sure Ford had the Th!nk cities
here under a waiver from the federal government. These
are only good for a couple of years at max so this is
part of the reason they had to pull them off the road.
I'm not saying it would not have been great to have
been able to keep them here, but it would have
definitely have been a liability for Ford.
A local company Etec has a Renault Kangoo plug in
hybrid here for testing. The came and spoke to our
local EAA chapter about it and the plug in Prius
they're testing. It took them months and months to get
the proper paper work through to be able to
temporarily import the Kangoo for testing purposes. I
think the waiver is only good for 2 years max and at
that point the car has to go back to France (which it
will) or be destroyed. Even after they got it here it
was another whole ordeal to be able to get a state
license for the thing, but they did finally get it
after another month. As a side note as of a few months
ago, when I got to see it, December was the last time
they put gas in it.
If you want to see something bad the current edition
of Top Gear magazine (a UK publication I picked up at
Barns and Noble) has a big environmental vehicles
section. They crash tested a Gwiz at 30mph and the
results are scary to say the least. The whole
passenger compartment is compromised, the steering
column pushed severely back in to the driver, no
crumple zone and no decent safety cage. In Europe they
classify as a quadra cycle so they don't have to be
crash tested. This is actually beside the point
because they have pictures of other small cars such as
the Smart two four and a few other micro cars in crash
tests and they all faired well so a small car can
indeed be built safe.
Would the Th!nk city pass a crash test? Who knows. If
the safety cage were made sufficiently strong and the
minimal crumple zone worked adequately I'm sure it
could be made to. The other problem is in the US
anything going faster than a NEV requires multiple
stage air bags, and soon all models must have vehicle
stability control. I don't think Th!nk has any plans
to import to the US though do they?
Later,
Rick
92 Saturn SC conversion
AZ Alt Fuel Plates "ZEROGAS"
> > Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:44:06 -0700 (PDT)
> From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Th!nk - Can it PASS the Crash TEST ??
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> When ford sold these they were freeway legal and one
> would assume that they had passed the crash test
> then
> butt you know about ass u me
> --- Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Are you referring to the Th!nk City, or the Th!nk
> > Neighbor?
> >
> > Z
> >
> > On 7/17/07, Steven Lough
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > The Th1nk EV seems to be gaining some traction,
> > with new investors
> > > jumping in, according to several sources and
> news
> > briefs.
> > >
> > > Does any one know whether the car itself will
> > ever pass muster with
> > > the US crash-worthy standards ?? Or will it
> just
> > be another 25 mph NEV ??
> > > --
> > > Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> > > Seattle EV Association
> > > 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> > > Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> > > Day: 206 850-8535
> > > Eve: 206 524-1351
> > > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > web: http://www.seattleeva.org
> > >
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing.
http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/index.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually I'm pretty sure Ford had the Th!nk cities
here under a waiver from the federal government. These
are only good for a couple of years at max so this is
part of the reason they had to pull them off the road.
I'm not saying it would not have been great to have
been able to keep them here, but it would have
definitely have been a liability for Ford.
A local company Etec has a Renault Kangoo plug in
hybrid here for testing. The came and spoke to our
local EAA chapter about it and the plug in Prius
they're testing. It took them months and months to get
the proper paper work through to be able to
temporarily import the Kangoo for testing purposes. I
think the waiver is only good for 2 years max and at
that point the car has to go back to France (which it
will) or be destroyed. Even after they got it here it
was another whole ordeal to be able to get a state
license for the thing, but they did finally get it
after another month. As a side note as of a few months
ago, when I got to see it, December was the last time
they put gas in it.
If you want to see something bad the current edition
of Top Gear magazine (a UK publication I picked up at
Barns and Noble) has a big environmental vehicles
section. They crash tested a Gwiz at 30mph and the
results are scary to say the least. The whole
passenger compartment is compromised, the steering
column pushed severely back in to the driver, no
crumple zone and no decent safety cage. In Europe they
classify as a quadra cycle so they don't have to be
crash tested. This is actually beside the point
because they have pictures of other small cars such as
the Smart two four and a few other micro cars in crash
tests and they all faired well so a small car can
indeed be built safe.
Would the Th!nk city pass a crash test? Who knows. If
the safety cage were made sufficiently strong and the
minimal crumple zone worked adequately I'm sure it
could be made to. The other problem is in the US
anything going faster than a NEV requires multiple
stage air bags, and soon all models must have vehicle
stability control. I don't think Th!nk has any plans
to import to the US though do they?
Later,
Rick
92 Saturn SC conversion
AZ Alt Fuel Plates "ZEROGAS"
> > Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:44:06 -0700 (PDT)
> From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Th!nk - Can it PASS the Crash TEST ??
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> When ford sold these they were freeway legal and one
> would assume that they had passed the crash test
> then
> butt you know about ass u me
> --- Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Are you referring to the Th!nk City, or the Th!nk
> > Neighbor?
> >
> > Z
> >
> > On 7/17/07, Steven Lough
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > The Th1nk EV seems to be gaining some traction,
> > with new investors
> > > jumping in, according to several sources and
> news
> > briefs.
> > >
> > > Does any one know whether the car itself will
> > ever pass muster with
> > > the US crash-worthy standards ?? Or will it
> just
> > be another 25 mph NEV ??
> > > --
> > > Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> > > Seattle EV Association
> > > 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> > > Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> > > Day: 206 850-8535
> > > Eve: 206 524-1351
> > > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > web: http://www.seattleeva.org
> > >
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
that gives answers, not web links.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> So Wikipedia says the first halogens headlights (still around) are 700
> lumens on low beam. This would have required 6 devices per side, now
> we're down to 4 per side.
>
Danny
Maybe you can make some driving lights for a start. Or fog lights, just spread
the pattern a
little wider.
What are you using for a driver for the LEDs? I looked at different circuits
but haven't had time
play with them yet. My interest has only been in using them to replace running
lights, dome lights
etc.
If you can recommend any good circuit designs to follow, I'd appreciate it.
Still running incandescent, sigh...
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Did Otmar's AC Insight run? I didn't realize he had
all three hamsters running already. Perhaps somebody
talked to Otmar about his AC control and has more
details (I don't want any pictures of the hamster
wheels, just some idea of when he might start
producing this version of the 3PH triple Zilla).
Thanks,
Rod
--- Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here's the photos and pics from Saturday.
>
http://frozenfowlers.blogspot.com/2007/07/summer-holiday-quickshot-portl
> and-2.html
>
> Not as much silliness, mostly just pictures of cars
> (that we hear so
> much about) and people (so we can put some faces to
> names on the list)
>
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of MIKE WILLMON
> Sent: Monday, 16 July 2007 2:06 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Mark Fowler's take on the Wayland
> Invitational
>
> I wasn't talking about the size of the
> coconuts.....its the mosquitos
> ;-)
>
> Nice report and pics too. Thanks for sharing.
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, Ak.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Monday, July 16, 2007 11:04 am
> Subject: Mark Fowler's take on the Wayland
> Invitational
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> >
> > Hi Folks
> >
> > I found this linked to from the SEVA list but did
> not see it posted
> > here.
> > It is a great tongue-in-cheek description of the
> weekend EVents with
> > great photos.
> >
> > Here-
> > http://frozenfowlers.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~
> >
> >
> > Roy LeMeur
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
> > http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-
> > us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Rod and All,
Rod Hower wrote:
Did Otmar's AC Insight run? I didn't realize he had
all three hamsters running already.
Yes. I've driven the car. For those who may not have noticed or read
yet, the heart of Oat's Insight is a genuine EV1 motor/transaxle. Being
the owner of an Insight myself and having spent lots of time behind the
wheel of many EVs, it was great to hear that sophisticated EV1 sound
again! It was a bit odd though, to hear it and feel its smooth power
delivery while driving an Insight!
Perhaps somebody
talked to Otmar about his AC control and has more
details...just some idea of when he might start
producing this version of the 3PH triple Zilla).
There are software items still to be worked out in the design, so the
car is very limited in its performance at this point. It is still very
much in the prototype stage right now. The battery pack is last year's
Zombie batteries, so once again, Dick Brown and Enersys have stepped up
to the plate and have helped EVers. As to when the Tri-Zilla hits
production, that's going to be up to Otmar to answer :-)
Special thanks to EV cartoon artist Chip Gribben for the trio of phase
pump'n hamsters that adorned the temporary cover of the controller.
I asked him to do the artwork only a few days before the races, and as
usual, he pulled through.
See Ya......John Wayland
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jim,
The MTC I remember weighs 105 lbs. It was a 7 inch
stack, 2 inch comm, MKB was 6 inch stack, 3 inch comm.
Most other Prestolite 7.2 inch (dia.) lift motors
were 5 inch stack, like the MJU.
I would love to see a dynamometer head to head test of
the MTC vs that ADC 8". I doubt there would be any
"crap kicking". I looked a little---could not find a
curve or rating for the ADC 8". Anybody got that?
Paul's 18 vs 19 HP says they are pretty well matched.
And Jim, as long as we're on the subject, what are the
armature core dimensions (D and L) and slot count on
the ADC 8?
Regards,
Jeff
--- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > My Prestolite MTC motor drawings (used for adapter
> > and fitting
> > purposes) list the motor as 105 lb. EVparts lists
> > the single shaft
> > ADC 8 inch motor as 110 lb. Using the Prestolite
> > motor curves I get a
> > continuous rating of 18 HP on a nominal 96v pack
> vs.
> > an ADC 8" with
> > 19 HP continuous at 96 volts nominal.
>
> Hey Paul
>
> Man you guys are sticklers for the facts, lol.
> Sorry
> I didn't have an MTC at the house to weigh when I
> was
> posting, LMAO. The basic Presto 7.2" motors lie in
> that 80 lbs range, either that or I'm stronger than
> I
> look ;^) I'm gonna have to weigh my MKB 12 brush
> core
> as I thought that was about as long a 7 as
> Prestolite
> made. Anyway the MTC must be a tad longer than my
> usual 7 I build, so my bad 8^)
>
> My ADC book shows the 8's at 125 lbs and so I'm
> quoting there. The MTC isn't a lift motor and
> although I've seen them (Dutchman has a new one) I'm
> not super versed in them. FWIW I miss the old
> Prestolite days 8^(
>
> One thing to remeber, stats don't tell the whole
> picture and although I have no scientific data to
> claim my gut tells me an ADC8 would kick the crap
> out
> of the MTC and stay cooler doing it. Not hating
> here,
> but I've seen Keiths MTC and I know the ADC8 pretty
> well and if looking for my opinion I'd take the 8 if
> budget and space allowed. This is not to say the
> MTC
> isn't a great motor it is and this is just my
> opinion
> and probably effective as voltages increase.
>
> Now as far as the 9's go they are all but a copy of
> some 9's that Prestolite made years ago. Kinda to
> bad
> Prestolite didn't make an 8" (least none I know of,
> lmao).
>
> Anyway I'll try and be more careful around here
> throwing stats out 8^P Between you and Jeff I'm
> gonna have to keep calipers and a scale on me at all
> times, LMAO! If you factor in Matt and Mike it
> seems
> I can't hardly catch a break here anymore 8^o
>
> Great to have seen ya down at the track last
> weekend.
> Had fun, hope this helps (I'm sure I'll hear about
> it
> if it doesn't) hehee. 8^P
>
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know if the models with transistor controllers did, but the
one that Cara and I own has never reached that top speed. (except
when going down hill with a stiff tailwind --- grin ---)
Cheers,
Aaron Choate
On 7/17/07, Steven Trovato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I don't know the answer to Mark's question, but
out of curiosity I followed the link and looked
at the write-up on the car. It says "...the
Kilowatt drivetrain was redesigned by Eureka
Williams as a 72-volt system for the 1960 model
year. It employed 12 sequential six-volt
batteries. The 72-volt models were much more
practical than the 1959 36-volt models. The 1960
Kilowatt boasted a top speed of nearly 60 mph
with a range of over 60 miles on a single
charge." Did these things really achieve
that? Isn't that pretty impressive even compared
to what people are getting today? Or did their
marketing department get those figures going down hill with a tailwind?
-Steve
At 11:18 PM 7/16/2007, Mark Russo wrote:
>Hi all,
>I have a 1960 Henney Kilowatt. This is a
>Renault Dauphine that was converted to electric
>by the Eurkea company back in 1960.
>This particular car has 1,929 ORIGINAL miles on
>her. It has been kept in a garage for many
>years, although it has been outdoors from time
>to time but never for extended times.
>IF any rust is on the car it is minimal surface
>rust. The car is solid! This car has not been
>driven in many years. I was wondering what this
>car might be worth?? I really do not want to
>part with her but I am in a bad financial way
>and will soon be losing garage space. Are there
>clubs that deal with this sort of car? Maybe
>you can send me a list??? The link below
>tells a little bit on the car. By the way, I
>understand there were ONLY eight of the 1960's that were converted to electric.
>This is the last line in the article:
>Of the documented 32 Henney Kilowatts produced, it is estimated
>that there are between four and eight still in existence. At least two of
>these documented are still driven periodically.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henney_Kilowatt
>
>THANKS, Mark
>_________________________________________________________________
>See what you're getting into…before you go there.
>http://newlivehotmail.com
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--- Begin Message ---
You need to design a simple circuit that automatically detects wheel
spin and bleeds and dumps the excess amps into a very short term storage
circuit cap until the wheels stop spinning and refeeds it back as you
gain speed so they wont spin and you keep your total power . All the
circuit needs to do is detect the ratio of power wheel spin to unpowered
wheel spin to detect slippage (unless your front wheels come off the
ground - do they?)
Your welcome. :-)
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 11:22 pm, John Wayland wrote:
Hello to All,
About getting White Zombie into the 10s, Ryan Stotts wrote:
What would it take, what would it need?
Saturday night, we only had one chance a sub 11.5 second run, be that a
low 11 or if all the planets were aligned perfectly, a high 10. Without
the required safety gear, once you break through the 11.5 second
barrier, it's off the track you go. I had one chance to see what the
car could do with the A123 lithiums cranked all the way up, and at the
same time, one chance to go under 11.5.
Tim wanted to dial back the launch current to get the tires to stick.
Though I felt he was right, I also felt that if we did turn it down and
then ran an 11.4 or something, we'd never know if we 'could have'
turned it all the way up and maybe blasted into a high 10. It was quite
a dilemma.
I over-rode Tim and ran the full 2000 amps in both series and parallel
modes, and I also turned the A123 pack up to its full 1400 amp furry.
We ran an 11.4.
I was wrong...Tim was right. The launch suffered from excessive wheel
spin and we lost a quick 1/10th second in the 60 ft....that would have
made that 11.4 run an 11.3 run right there. Once the tires started
spinning there was no stopping the hp from taking over and the car
continued to spin the tires way past the 60 ft. and past 100 ft., too.
You can hear and see this in Mark Fowler's video of the run. In fact,
you can see White Zombie mildly fish-tailing for quite a ways until it
finally hooks up...that was good for probably another 2/10ths second
and the theoretical 11.3 would have then been an 11.1. When the car
sticks instead of spinning the tires, in addition to the obvious time
not lost spinning, is the fact that the car tends to get to higher
speed sooner...this factor would have wiped away another 2/10ths or so,
and the Zombie could have indeed, run a 10.9 ET Saturday night!
Would it take? A better decision by me last Saturday night! OK, maybe a
few more tries at dialing everything in, too. Tim, I, and many others
there that night all agree the car with that lithium pack can run the
10s right now with nothing else changed. On one run, the car did a
scorching 7.1 second 1/8th mile, which when compared to other cars that
run that type of 1/8th mile ET, translates to a 10.6 - 10.8 quarter
mile! The 10 that got away?
What's the street range like with those A123's?
Keep in mind, it was a suitcase-sized pack of lithium sitting in the
trunk of the car, that only weighed 175 lbs. With the 844 lb. lead acid
pack, the car has an estimated 35 miles range driven briskly, and
probably a 50 mile range driven at 40-45 mph with a less aggressive
right foot. We of course, had no time to test range per charge, nor did
we care about it. That said though, I was able to drive the 16 miles to
the track effortlessly with the pack not sagging one bit from the time
I left the house till the time I got to the track...seriously! Sure,
the voltage fluctuates with varying loads, but not nearly as much as
with the lead acid pack, but the average pack voltage observed under a
45 mph cruise did not change one bit from when I left to when I arrived
at the track...incredibly flat discharge curve, these A123 lithiums! I
got to the track and the lithiums didn't even break a sweat! We
probably could have taken the car right to the track and run a sub-12
second ET....without charging first!
Friday night after recharging the pack the final time, I started to
drive it home and got about 1/3 the way before having a problem that
shut down the car (more on this when I get to my full length post) and
had me coasting to a stop at the side of the road. We towed it home.
The next day, I never bothered to freshen the pack back up and simply
drove back to the track...again, the discharge curve stayed flat, and
the pack was hovering at the same voltage by the time I got to the
track. That was probably 21 miles on one charge, and the 175 lb. pack
still had juice to give! At about 1/5th the weight of the lead acid
pack, I believe the A123 lithium pack can deliver its rated ~ 20 ahrs
easily. The 844 lb. lead acid pack is rated at 32 ahrs, but that's at
the 10 hr. rate - at the 1 hr. rate it is probably closer to 17-20 ahrs
of deliverable juice powering the car. White Zombie only draws about
1/2 ahr per mile at 55 mph with a 360V pack, so with 20 ahrs available
from a 374V A123 lithium pack, that works out to be 40 miles at highway
speeds...this, while not factoring in the car's reduced weight (722
lbs. lighter). So the answer is, I'd expect this tiny 175 lb. pack to
give up to 50 miles at 40-45 mph. A 400 lb. pack would easily give
White Zombie 100 miles range at highway speeds.
These A123 cells seem to be the holy grail! It was fun trying them
out...now where did I put those beautiful orange Enersys batteries?
See Ya....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 09:25 -0500, Christopher Robison wrote:
> Somewhere there's got to be a decent picture of the control board with
> its contactor array. I'll dig around and see if I can find it.
Huge thanks to Tim Humphrey, who sent some pictures of the Henney
Kilowatt controller and some diagrams of its design and wiring
configuration at each step of throttle input. I've put them here:
http://ohmbre.org/gallery/v/other_stuff/henney_controller
The photos came from James Jarret's car, "Lady Penelope"
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/431
I don't recall the controller in Aaron's Kilowatt having 7 throttle
positions, but this could be my memory.
--
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Probably both, Jim!!
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: Land of the Midnight Run
MIKE WILLMON wrote:
>....you'll have to make it to Anchorage for the
"Land of the Midnight Run" (if I can EVer get it
set up) heh heh. Maybe withing the next couple
years. I'll have to soften everyone up for the EV
racers :-)
--- John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
OK Mike, now listen up! What's this crap about 'next
couple of years?
You've now been to a NEDRA EVent, you've hung with
all us crazy amp
heads (you're now one of us), so you know we get
things done, and we get
things done quickly.
OMG! Yeah right Mr. wait till 4:00PM the day of the
race to get Bills batteries! 8^P
I can't wait a couple of years
to come clean your
Crazy Pony's clock with White Zombie, so again,
listen up.
I'm betting on this is a race I'll want to watch 8^)
Not sure which one I'll root for, the new "stud" or
Old faithful 8^o
I 'need' an
excuse to return to your beautiful state and to the
Anchorage area
again...I'm having withdrawals.
I'd also like to get back up there again, Loved it, I
couldn't do this years trip to my sisters 8^(
I 'am' serious
about him making a date for summer of '08 for many
of us to head north
to Alaska for what will surely be an unforgettable
EVent.
I'd be able to ride off expences as a business
deduction 8^) You know I could get used to this kinda
stuff pretty easy! Alaska in the summer, Florida in
January, LMAO! Hey I can dream 8^)
Alaska is as
beautiful as all the postcards and travel features
show it to be, and
more, It's simply breathtaking! Well....maybe
excluding the frozen
wasteland Kuparik Camp I worked at in the Arctic
Circle! As part of a
racing week up there, we'll have to include a field
trip up and around
the Turnagain Arm:
I actually went all they way around it to Hope and
Homer last year 8^) Fished for Salmon at Byrds creek
and found myself 6' from huge bears a dozen times
saying "Shoo Bear Shoo" all the while hoping it
wouldn't eat me! I didn't know the locals hide behind
the new guys as they try and hold the line, LMAO!
True story!
I better start saving now, as an Alaska and or a
BBB/Walt Disney World is an EVent that ain't going to
happen without the Wife and Daughter coming, lol.
Hey Bob, you think you can do the Alaska drive from
Conn? LMAO, hehe. It was good seeing in Portland,
hows the drive home going?
Had fun
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who
knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Optima YT's would give you 75 Ah, so would double your range; would do it in
the summer, or spring/fall, but maybe not in winter, unless you use G31's,
which are around 90 Ah. Trojan T-105's would have no problem with range, but
would be MUCH heavier also.
The slower speeds in the middle will definitely help some.
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: batteries: another increasing range question
I seem to always forget the important details. Sometimes it makes me
wonder if I really deserve the masters degree when I can forget the
important details. :) But thanks.
The vehicle is a 1974 VW beetle. I am not sure what the weight of the car
is, after all the unnecessary ICE components are out, but according to
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z7068/default.aspx, the before weight
was 1831 lbs. The current batteries I have killed are 35 AH AGMs,
weighing in at 29 lbs. I have 12 of them, which is basically 350 lbs.
That got me 8 miles, round trip, 4 miles of which are basically flat, at
around 50 mph, and 2 miles up a fairly steep incline at around 65 mph, and
then down that same hill for the last 2 miles at 65 mph. I did have to
limp home. I think I need to get rid of some extra rolling resistance
somewhere as I thought I should have been able to coast down the hill, but
still needed to push the accelerator to keep up the speed, but not sure
where to start. Any suggestions? This trip was done once.
Okay back to the other details. The first 8 miles or so will be on
highway roads, fairly flat with speeds around 50 - 60 mph. Then I will be
in town, where the speeds will be 30 - 35 mph, with the last little bit to
school being another hill. The winters get down to below freezing
regularly, for around at least a month. I don't plan on using battery
heaters.
I hope I gave all the important details. If I say that the weight of the
car without batteries was 1800 lbs, and have around 700 lbs of batteries,
and everything is in good working order, any estimates on how far I can
go? What about if I have around 1050 lbs of batteries? I would try some
of the EV calculators, but I can't get to some, and the batteries I
initially purchased aren't there.
Thanks for all comments.
Brian
On Tue Jul 17 7:24 , Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent:
Ahhh yes, battricide. Been there, done that.
I needed to hear the fraction of your weight that
is in batteries vs. entire vehicle to make a guess to
this. I needed to know if you have a truck or small
car. I needed to know if you'll be on the freeway, or
regular roads. I need to know what wintertime temp.
you'll be facing; battery heater mats or no? All of
this adds up to determine your range. And an e-meter,
when programmed with the voltage and Ampere-hours in
the batteries, will have power bars that can tell you
what your range will be. My Civvy started off at 2220
lbs, and is now 3200. So roughly a third of the
weight is batteries; range is around 40 mi. without
stressing the batteries, and in summertime.
The more lead, the more range, no matter _how_ you
structure the batteries. Putting them in buddy pair
will generally limit your sag as you pull amps out.
It sounds like in your post you've already figured
out that higher voltage = less amp draw = less
resistance, and higher range, but as you mention,
you're at the limit of the controller. Most people,
myself included, don't have the luxury of adding on
more batteries, either in pairs, or one string: we've
maxed it out in the first place.
Hope that helps a little... BTW: Congratulations on
going back for the master's deg!
--- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
When I originally planned my car, I didn't need much
range: 8 miles round trip. So I bought some
batteries which did the job. That was a couple of
years ago. Starting the end of August, I will be
going back to school to finish my masters degree.
That will be about a 28 mile trip. Last year I had
another car to get me to and from. But this year, I
will need my electric. I currently have the maximum
number of batteries my curtis 1231 will allow. I
need to buy a new battery pack (can we say newbi
battericide). So I have considered two options:
one string of higher capacity batteries, or multiple
strings of the same capacity battery. I should be
able to charge while at school (a friend lives
close). So 14 miles. I was initially thinking of
buddy pairing two together, in one string. Would
this get me my 14 mile range without too much
discharge? Or would a buddy trio be bad? Or would
a battery with double capacity be better? I would
appreciate all opinions on the !
subject, especially those who have tried running a
single string and buddy paired batteries.
Thanks,
Brian
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Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? For $20 DVD you can purchase footage of
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Learn more at: www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html ____
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'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
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