Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread tomw via EV
At over 4700 lb Tesla is hardly the benchmark for efficiency. My 2260 lb ev 5 1/2 year average energy use is 216 Wh/mile from the wall, with about 50% travel on highways at 55 - 65 mph. Charger efficiency, measured several times, is 0.91, so that's about 197 Wh/mile or 5.1 miles/kWh excluding

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread Willie2 via EV
On 05/18/2015 09:51 AM, tomw via EV wrote: What I've read also says that hub wheels are a problem for higher speed vehicles due to unsprung weight, but I've no experience with them. A range The URL posted for the car indicates that the hub motor(s) are sprung.

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread Peri Hartman via EV
Maybe they have short axles and aren't truly hub motors? -- Original Message -- From: Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Willie2 wmckem...@gmail.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 18-May-15 8:24:54 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread Mark Grasser via EV
Hub motors are sprung, they are in the hub, which is sprung, as in sprung weight. . -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 11:27 AM To: Ben Goren; Willie2; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re:

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On May 18, 2015, at 8:14 AM, Willie2 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: The URL posted for the car indicates that the hub motor(s) are sprung. Huh? How on Earth is _that_ supposed to work? b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub

Re: [EVDL] Wheels for efficient vehicle.

2015-05-18 Thread tomw via EV
Larger diameter would be more efficient. If they don't need to carry much weight you might look into using motorcycle tires which are narrower. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Wheels-for-efficient-vehicle-tp4675604p4675607.html

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CO's Credit Applies 2Used Outside-State Purchased EVs

2015-05-18 Thread paul dove via EV
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CO's Credit Applies 2Used Outside-State Purchased EVs

2015-05-18 Thread paul dove via EV
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CO's Credit Applies 2Used Outside-State Purchased EVs

2015-05-18 Thread Peri Hartman via EV
Does anyone know if the federal credit can be applied to a used EV provided that the credit hasn't already been applied to that EV? Peri -- Original Message -- From: brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 18-May-15 12:41:11 AM Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: CO's Credit

[EVDL] Wheels for efficient vehicle.

2015-05-18 Thread Lawrence Rhodes via EV
attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150518/c0d933e9/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion

[EVDL] EVLN: Roe-Deer.no kamikaze'd Kjetil-Jystad's e-Golf EV

2015-05-18 Thread brucedp5 via EV
http://www.torquenews.com/1/safety-place-when-vw-e-golf-hits-deer Safety in Place When VW e-Golf Hits a Deer By Armen Hareyan 2015-05-13 [image http://www.torquenews.com/sites/default/files/image-%5Buid%5D/%5Btitle-raw%5D/vw_e-golf.jpg We saw this picture on Fac ebook after one of the VW

[EVDL] EVent: Victory e-motorcycle racing @iomtt.com Races 6/10 IsleOfMan UK

2015-05-18 Thread brucedp5 via EV
http://www.cyclenews.com/45/33951/Racing-Article/Victory-Motorcycles-to-Race-Prototype-Electric-Motorcycle-at-the-Isle-of-Man-TT-Races.aspx Victory Motorcycles to Race Prototype Electric Motorcycle at the Isle of Man TT Races By Press Release | 5/16/2015 [images

[EVDL] EVLN: CO's Credit Applies 2Used Outside-State Purchased EVs

2015-05-18 Thread brucedp5 via EV
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1098277_colorados-electric-car-credit-applies-to-used-cars-too Colorado's Electric-Car Credit: Applies To Used Cars Too By John Voelcker May 13, 2015 [images http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2015-nissan-leaf_100473864_m.jpg 2015 Nissan Leaf

[EVDL] EVLN: Determining the residual value of a Leaf EV

2015-05-18 Thread brucedp5 via EV
http://www.torquenews.com/1/what-determines-residual-value-nissan-leaf What Determines The Residual Value of Nissan LEAF By Armen Hareyan 2015-05-13 [image http://www.torquenews.com/sites/default/files/image-%5Buid%5D/%5Btitle-raw%5D/2014_nissan_leaf_residual_value.jpg (screen shot of page

Re: [EVDL] Wheels for efficient vehicle.

2015-05-18 Thread Roland via EV
? I'm trying to use off the shelf parts so building and maintaining the vehicle will be easy. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150518/c0d933e9/attachment.htmhttp

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread tomw via EV
The numbers you post for Tesla do not include charger losses, the 216 Wh/mile does. The 196 Wh/mile number should be compared. Either way 216 or 196 is far less energy/mile than a Tesla S uses, so more efficient at moving one human around, which is the typical occupancy. Maybe you are

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread Michael Kadie via EV
The correlation between weight and efficiency is true below 45 mph in general. Above 45 mph aerodynamics starts being more important than weight. This is why the the heavy first generation Toyota prius has good highway MPG. In general the stop and go nature of travel below 45 mph overwhelms

Re: [EVDL] Wheels for efficient vehicle.

2015-05-18 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On May 18, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Roland via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: If you use a open spoke wheel that allows air to go thru the wheel, it is recommended to install a aluminum deflection plate about 0.125 inch thick that goes between the wheel and the axil flange, to prevent the air to go

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On May 18, 2015, at 10:02 AM, paul dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: The rule of thumb is weight / 10. Oooh -- that's a very useful suggestion. How much does aerodynamics change that? In particular, I'm thinking of a 1964 1/2 Mustang with, I think, roughly a 0.5 cd. Final weight, though,

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread paul dove via EV
-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150518/85d49f11/attachment-0001.htm

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread Ben Goren via EV
We must be using different terminology. As best I understood it, the hub is the center of the wheel where the axle connects. The hubcap covers the hub. And I thought that hub motors are in the same basic location as the hubcap, with either the stator or rotor in the wheel and the other half in

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV
On 18 May 2015 at 11:35, Mark Grasser via EV wrote: Hub motors are sprung, they are in the hub, which is sprung, as in sprung weight. I'm not positive, but I think the car's website has it backward. I think the following is mostly correct; engineers please set me right if not. The body

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range.EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread Bill Woodcock via EV
You have it backwards. Unsprung weight refers to the weight which has no suspension between it and the ground (tire, wheel, perhaps some or all of the axle, diff, and driveshaft), while the spring weight is the portion which is riding on springs (chassis, body, passengers, battery, etc.) One

Re: [EVDL] Wheels for efficient vehicle.

2015-05-18 Thread Lee Hart via EV
Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: MICHELIN ENERGY SAVER 155/65R14 75SES2: This is the best tire I can get from Michelin. Does everyone agree that it is hard to get a more efficient and narrow tire? If this is so what super light rim should I use. If not is there a better tire to use. Each

Re: [EVDL] Wheels for efficient vehicle.

2015-05-18 Thread Lee Hart via EV
tomw via EV wrote: Larger diameter would be more efficient. If they don't need to carry much weight you might look into using motorcycle tires which are narrower. It's not quite that easy. Larger diameter is more efficient, all things being equal. But they are rarely equal. A larger tire

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread Lee Hart via EV
Ben Goren via EV wrote: The URL posted for the car indicates that the hub motor(s) are sprung. Huh? How on Earth is _that_ supposed to work? One way is to have a long shaft on the motor. It acts like a swing axle, like the old VW Beetles. The motor itself is mounted so it can pivot, or has

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On May 18, 2015, at 10:57 AM, Michael Kadie via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: The correlation between weight and efficiency is true below 45 mph in general. That makes sense, and it's good news for my PHEV conversions...all-electric mode is going to be mostly around town and mostly at or below

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread Lee Hart via EV
tomw via EV wrote: At over 4700 lb Tesla is hardly the benchmark for efficiency. My 2260 lb ev 5 1/2 year average energy use is 216 Wh/mile from the wall, with about 50% travel on highways at 55 - 65 mph. Charger efficiency, measured several times, is 0.91, so that's about 197 Wh/mile or 5.1

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread Peri Hartman via EV
I thought that at freeway speeds the weight of the vehicle doesn't make much difference. But how slippery it is does. Unless, of course, you're going 186 miles all uphill. Peri -- Original Message -- From: Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: tomw tomofreno2...@yahoo.com; Electric

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread paul dove via EV
/20150518/9b756599/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

2015-05-18 Thread David Rees via EV
On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: So...if the insurance company winds up totaling the car, as we suspect they might...can anybody suggest an inexpensive EV suited to a retired couple? It would need to be freeway-capable with a reliable won't strand-them

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread paul dove via EV
a FWD axle with the electric motor connected only to that.) b   -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150518/9b756599/attachment.htm

Re: [EVDL] Wheels for efficient vehicle.

2015-05-18 Thread Roland via EV
in the center. b -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150518/0389ff0d/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http

Re: [EVDL] Wheels for efficient vehicle.

2015-05-18 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On May 18, 2015, at 12:54 PM, Roland e...@msn.com wrote: The best way we did this when we were road rally racing, is to ink the tire and than lower it on a white plastic cover board. I understand that most track racing uses pyrometers or infrared cameras or the like to see which parts of the

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On May 18, 2015, at 12:18 PM, paul dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: When I built mine I did a spread sheet. Any chance you have a copy handy and would be willing to share? Because of the nature of the project, I'm not overly worried about battery range, but it's always better to refine

Re: [EVDL] Wheels for efficient vehicle.

2015-05-18 Thread Al Lumas via EV
720 / 24 = 30 lbs per square inch. At 12:54 PM 5/18/2015, Roland via EV wrote: One more thing that I did not mention. Is the square area of the solid rubber sections of the tire face against the driving surface. You calculated the square area of the actual contact surfaces of the tire and

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread Lee Hart via EV
Lee Hart wrote: ...have a long shaft on the motor... acts like a swing axle ...have a gear-, chain-, or belt-reduction between motor shaft and wheel... Ben Goren via EV wrote: Are any of those considered hub motor designs? I've never, for example, heard of an aircooled VW as an hub motor

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On May 18, 2015, at 11:56 AM, Lee Hart leeah...@earthlink.net wrote: Ben Goren via EV wrote: The URL posted for the car indicates that the hub motor(s) are sprung. Huh? How on Earth is _that_ supposed to work? One way is to have a long shaft on the motor. It acts like a swing axle, like

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread Lee Hart via EV
Paul Dove wrote: When I built mine I did a spread sheet. Ben Goren via EV wrote: Any chance you have a copy handy and would be willing to share? Here is a copy of the Excel spreadsheet I use for my performance calculations. This is a dead version for email purposes (filled out for my 1980

Re: [EVDL] Wheels for efficient vehicle.

2015-05-18 Thread Roland via EV
was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150518/a4dbb721/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread Lee Hart via EV
Lee Hart via EV wrote: Here is a copy of the Excel spreadsheet I use for my performance calculations... Grr... I'm sorry the columns don't line up. It seems like the modern web simply can't handle a plain ASCII text file any more. Programs insist on changing tabs, double spaces, fonts, etc.

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread tomw via EV
Yes I agree that on average over different vehicle types the drag force generally becomes larger than the rolling resistance force at around 45 mph. The Tesla S is interesting in this regard though since it has very low Cd and not that large of cross sectional area for such a massive vehicle.

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread Lee Hart via EV
Mr23 via EV wrote: Lee, what about hosting your spreadsheets at your website, along with all the other technical information? That's a good idea. I'll do it. Thanks Mr23! Hmm... does anyone know if there's an easy way to have an online active spreadsheet, where the viewer can fill in his

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread tomw via EV
Thanks Lee. The car is a 2001 Suzuki Swift, www.evalbum.com/3060 Yes it should have been 80% DOD. Thanks, I corrected it. I keep the tires at about 36 psi (that's what the tire gauge says anyway). Cd = 0.32 and rolling resistance plus brake drag = 0.014 gave best fit to the roll down data,

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread John Lussmyer via EV
On Mon May 18 20:42:44 PDT 2015 ev@lists.evdl.org said: The two forces are equal for my car at about 45 mph, drag force is about 50% larger at 55 mph, and about twice as large at about 65 mph. (Cd and rolling resistance estimates from roll down tests) I really should figure this out for my EV.

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-18 Thread Mr23 via EV
Lee, what about hosting your spreadsheets at your website, along with all the other technical information? -Chris On 5/18/2015 5:17 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: Paul Dove wrote: When I built mine I did a spread sheet. Ben Goren via EV wrote: Any chance you have a copy handy and would be