Re: [EVDL] winter parking brake

2014-06-24 Thread Jan Steinman via EV
On 2014-06-20, at 09:44, via EV wrote:

 We
 don't use a parking brake in the winter here since the pads and shoes freeze
 to metal parts.

As others have mentioned here, that's only a problem in changing weather. If it 
is consistently cold, the brake will not freeze.

I say this with 18 years of ski instruction experience, parking every winter 
weekend. I only had my brake freeze a couple times, when I had do drive up 
through slush into frozen country, then park the entire weekend. A bit of 
popping the clutch forward and reverse freed it.

 The first priority for society as a whole is to drastically reduce 
consumption of fossil fuel energy and products derived from fossil fuels. The 
key action is to curtail. That means buying less, using less, wanting less and 
wasting less. To curtail means to cut back or to downsize. Curtail reflects the 
seriousness of the current situation more than the politically acceptable word 
conserve. -- Pat Murphy
 Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op 

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Re: [EVDL] winter parking brake

2014-06-20 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
Some factory conversions like the US Electricar
have added the shifter from the automatic gearbox version,
as well as the parking pawl that drops into the teeth on
the flywheel IIRC, the rest of the shifter is unused except
for operating a switch that tells the controller whether it
needs to move the vehicle forward or reverse (and it can
activate different regen settings for the different forward 
gear selection positions).

For a home conversion - I don't know. Carry a cobblestone to
place in front of the wheel?

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of xfmr via EV
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 8:38 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] winter parking brake

I searched but didn't find a similar question.  If one exists and I
missed it
please redirect me.

My question concerns manual transmissions and parking in the winter.  We
don't use a parking brake in the winter here since the pads and shoes
freeze
to metal parts.  With no engine compression to hold the vehicle what
have
others done?

Thank you for replys




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ing-brake-tp4669990.html
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Re: [EVDL] winter parking brake

2014-06-20 Thread Rush Dougherty via EV
There is an adapter plate with a parking paw in it which slots into a ratchet to
keep the vehicle from rolling.
See http://www.tucsonev.com/EVstuff.html scroll down to 4 for some pictures
(it's still for sale, cheap)

Rush
www.TucsonEV.com

 -Original Message-
 From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of xfmr via EV
 Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 8:38 AM
 To: ev@lists.evdl.org
 Subject: [EVDL] winter parking brake

 I searched but didn't find a similar question.  If one exists and I missed it
please
 redirect me.

 My question concerns manual transmissions and parking in the winter.  We don't
 use a parking brake in the winter here since the pads and shoes freeze to
metal
 parts.  With no engine compression to hold the vehicle what have others done?

 Thank you for replys




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 View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-
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 Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
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 Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3972/7709 - Release Date: 06/19/14



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Re: [EVDL] winter parking brake

2014-06-20 Thread Michael Ross via EV
Medium duty trucks used to have drive shaft brakes that could be cobbled
from junkyard parts.

I use the hand brake on all manner of vehicles (yes, sometimes up north in
the winter).  I do not find this to be a problem.  Is this just habit based
on older vehicles?  I seem to remember having to jog some truck other to
get the rear wheels to turn, but I didn't quit using the E brake all
together and the problem was not chronic.

Another alternative is to turn your wheels so thy hit the curb.  You need a
little incline for this.

Or instead of chocks you can swing a 4 foot length of chain around a wheel
so it wraps into the crack fore and aft the contact patch.


On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 11:50 AM, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 wrote:

 Some factory conversions like the US Electricar
 have added the shifter from the automatic gearbox version,
 as well as the parking pawl that drops into the teeth on
 the flywheel IIRC, the rest of the shifter is unused except
 for operating a switch that tells the controller whether it
 needs to move the vehicle forward or reverse (and it can
 activate different regen settings for the different forward
 gear selection positions).

 For a home conversion - I don't know. Carry a cobblestone to
 place in front of the wheel?

 Cor van de Water
 Chief Scientist
 Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
 Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
 Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626


 -Original Message-
 From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of xfmr via EV
 Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 8:38 AM
 To: ev@lists.evdl.org
 Subject: [EVDL] winter parking brake

 I searched but didn't find a similar question.  If one exists and I
 missed it
 please redirect me.

 My question concerns manual transmissions and parking in the winter.  We
 don't use a parking brake in the winter here since the pads and shoes
 freeze
 to metal parts.  With no engine compression to hold the vehicle what
 have
 others done?

 Thank you for replys




 --
 View this message in context:
 http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/winter-park
 ing-brake-tp4669990.html
 http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/winter-parking-brake-tp4669990.html
 Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
 Nabble.com.
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-- 
Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain
happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
*Dalai Lama *

Tell me what it is you plan to do
With your one wild and precious life?
Mary Oliver, The summer day.

To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. Edison
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 550-2430 Land
(919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone
(919) 631-1451 Cell
(919) 513-0418 Desk

michael.e.r...@gmail.com
michael.e.r...@gmail.com
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Re: [EVDL] winter parking brake

2014-06-20 Thread SLPinfo.org via EV
Although I  now live in Oregon,  I grew up in northern Alberta Canada where
temps can get to -30 for extended periods in the winter.  I remember
hearing the brake will freeze thing but I  also regularly used it in my
manual transmission vehicles.   Like Michael I never had a problem.

Peter Flipsen Jr
 On Jun 20, 2014 9:17 AM, Michael Ross via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Medium duty trucks used to have drive shaft brakes that could be cobbled
 from junkyard parts.

 I use the hand brake on all manner of vehicles (yes, sometimes up north in
 the winter).  I do not find this to be a problem.  Is this just habit based
 on older vehicles?  I seem to remember having to jog some truck other to
 get the rear wheels to turn, but I didn't quit using the E brake all
 together and the problem was not chronic.

 Another alternative is to turn your wheels so thy hit the curb.  You need a
 little incline for this.

 Or instead of chocks you can swing a 4 foot length of chain around a wheel
 so it wraps into the crack fore and aft the contact patch.


 On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 11:50 AM, Cor van de Water via EV 
 ev@lists.evdl.org
  wrote:

  Some factory conversions like the US Electricar
  have added the shifter from the automatic gearbox version,
  as well as the parking pawl that drops into the teeth on
  the flywheel IIRC, the rest of the shifter is unused except
  for operating a switch that tells the controller whether it
  needs to move the vehicle forward or reverse (and it can
  activate different regen settings for the different forward
  gear selection positions).
 
  For a home conversion - I don't know. Carry a cobblestone to
  place in front of the wheel?
 
  Cor van de Water
  Chief Scientist
  Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
  Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
  Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of xfmr via EV
  Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 8:38 AM
  To: ev@lists.evdl.org
  Subject: [EVDL] winter parking brake
 
  I searched but didn't find a similar question.  If one exists and I
  missed it
  please redirect me.
 
  My question concerns manual transmissions and parking in the winter.  We
  don't use a parking brake in the winter here since the pads and shoes
  freeze
  to metal parts.  With no engine compression to hold the vehicle what
  have
  others done?
 
  Thank you for replys
 
 
 
 
  --
  View this message in context:
  http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/winter-park
  ing-brake-tp4669990.html
  
 http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/winter-parking-brake-tp4669990.html
 
  Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
  Nabble.com.
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 --
 Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain
 happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
 *Dalai Lama *

 Tell me what it is you plan to do
 With your one wild and precious life?
 Mary Oliver, The summer day.

 To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
 Thomas A. Edison
 http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html

 A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
 *Warren Buffet*

 Michael E. Ross
 (919) 550-2430 Land
 (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google
 Phone
 (919) 631-1451 Cell
 (919) 513-0418 Desk

 michael.e.r...@gmail.com
 michael.e.r...@gmail.com
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Re: [EVDL] winter parking brake

2014-06-20 Thread Roland via EV
I drive in a city like Fresco with steep hills.  My EV had a manual 
transmission where I park down hill, I would turn the wheels to the right and 
apply the parking brakes even in temperatures down to 33 below.  
If I park on a up hill street, I than turn the wheels to the left and apply 
the the parking brakes.  
In some cases I would not apply the parking brake when my tires are against 
the the street curbs.

What also helps, is to put the transmission in reversed gear on a down hill 
or in 1st gear in up hill.  In either of these gears, the overall gear ratio is 
over 15:1 or greater which will adds some resistance. 

The wheel chocks does not work so great, because I had to move the EV off 
the chocks to relieved the pressure and take a chance to retrieved them.

Another thing that could be done, is a mechanical mechanism to apply a 
locking key into the pilot shaft of motor if it has one. 

Do not use the brakes so much where it will heat up the pads.  I avoid 
using the brakes when coming to a stop.  This will allow the air to cool the 
brakes. 

Roland 


  - Original Message - 
  From: xfmr via EVmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org 
  To: ev@lists.evdl.orgmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org 
  Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 9:37 AM
  Subject: [EVDL] winter parking brake


  I searched but didn't find a similar question.  If one exists and I missed it
  please redirect me.

  My question concerns manual transmissions and parking in the winter.  We
  don't use a parking brake in the winter here since the pads and shoes freeze
  to metal parts.  With no engine compression to hold the vehicle what have
  others done?

  Thank you for replys




  --
  View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/winter-parking-brake-tp4669990.htmlhttp://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/winter-parking-brake-tp4669990.html
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Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] winter parking brake

2014-06-20 Thread Peri Hartman via EV
When you're at -30 there is likely near zero humidity.  On the other 
hand, in temps from 20-30 there is much higher humidity and I would 
think brake freezing would be more likely.  It's only happened to me a 
few times.  I found that by rocking the car forward and back, gently, 
they eventually freed up.  Hard to do on ice, though.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: SLPinfo.org via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: 20-Jun-14 9:29:22 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] winter parking brake

Although I now live in Oregon, I grew up in northern Alberta Canada 
where

temps can get to -30 for extended periods in the winter. I remember
hearing the brake will freeze thing but I also regularly used it in 
my

manual transmission vehicles. Like Michael I never had a problem.

Peter Flipsen Jr
 On Jun 20, 2014 9:17 AM, Michael Ross via EV ev@lists.evdl.org 
wrote:


 Medium duty trucks used to have drive shaft brakes that could be 
cobbled

 from junkyard parts.

 I use the hand brake on all manner of vehicles (yes, sometimes up 
north in
 the winter). I do not find this to be a problem. Is this just habit 
based
 on older vehicles? I seem to remember having to jog some truck other 
to

 get the rear wheels to turn, but I didn't quit using the E brake all
 together and the problem was not chronic.

 Another alternative is to turn your wheels so thy hit the curb. You 
need a

 little incline for this.

 Or instead of chocks you can swing a 4 foot length of chain around a 
wheel

 so it wraps into the crack fore and aft the contact patch.


 On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 11:50 AM, Cor van de Water via EV 
 ev@lists.evdl.org
  wrote:

  Some factory conversions like the US Electricar
  have added the shifter from the automatic gearbox version,
  as well as the parking pawl that drops into the teeth on
  the flywheel IIRC, the rest of the shifter is unused except
  for operating a switch that tells the controller whether it
  needs to move the vehicle forward or reverse (and it can
  activate different regen settings for the different forward
  gear selection positions).
 
  For a home conversion - I don't know. Carry a cobblestone to
  place in front of the wheel?
 
  Cor van de Water
  Chief Scientist
  Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
  Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
  Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of xfmr via 
EV

  Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 8:38 AM
  To: ev@lists.evdl.org
  Subject: [EVDL] winter parking brake
 
  I searched but didn't find a similar question. If one exists and I
  missed it
  please redirect me.
 
  My question concerns manual transmissions and parking in the 
winter. We
  don't use a parking brake in the winter here since the pads and 
shoes

  freeze
  to metal parts. With no engine compression to hold the vehicle what
  have
  others done?
 
  Thank you for replys
 
 
 
 
  --
  View this message in context:
  
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/winter-park

  ing-brake-tp4669990.html
  
 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/winter-parking-brake-tp4669990.html

 
  Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive 
at

  Nabble.com.
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  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
 
 


 --
 Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain
 happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
 *Dalai Lama *

 Tell me what it is you plan to do
 With your one wild and precious life?
 Mary Oliver, The summer day.

 To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
 Thomas A. Edison
 http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html

 A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
 *Warren Buffet*

 Michael E. Ross
 (919) 550-2430 Land
 (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google
 Phone
 (919) 631-1451 Cell
 (919) 513-0418 Desk

 michael.e.r...@gmail.com
 michael.e.r...@gmail.com
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Re: [EVDL] winter parking brake

2014-06-20 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
I used the hand brake often while driving in The Netherlands
(same latitude as south Canada) and only had an issue once.
Remember that the time brakes will freeze to the rotors/drums
is when they are *wet* before parking. If you noticed that you run
through
something wet (puddle) before parking, you can drive the car another
block
with the brakes lightly applied (pull the hand brake until it starts
slowing down the vehicle) so it gets warm and the brakes dry, before
parking.

The one time I noticed was after a bright cold winter night, the car
would not move backwards, only upwards. It had frozen on one side.
Jogging the car carefully back and forth cracked the drum brake loose
and I could drive normally after that.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Michael Ross
via EV
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 9:17 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] winter parking brake

Medium duty trucks used to have drive shaft brakes that could be cobbled
from junkyard parts.

I use the hand brake on all manner of vehicles (yes, sometimes up north
in
the winter).  I do not find this to be a problem.  Is this just habit
based
on older vehicles?  I seem to remember having to jog some truck other to
get the rear wheels to turn, but I didn't quit using the E brake all
together and the problem was not chronic.

Another alternative is to turn your wheels so thy hit the curb.  You
need a
little incline for this.

Or instead of chocks you can swing a 4 foot length of chain around a
wheel
so it wraps into the crack fore and aft the contact patch.


On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 11:50 AM, Cor van de Water via EV
ev@lists.evdl.org
 wrote:

 Some factory conversions like the US Electricar
 have added the shifter from the automatic gearbox version,
 as well as the parking pawl that drops into the teeth on
 the flywheel IIRC, the rest of the shifter is unused except
 for operating a switch that tells the controller whether it
 needs to move the vehicle forward or reverse (and it can
 activate different regen settings for the different forward
 gear selection positions).

 For a home conversion - I don't know. Carry a cobblestone to
 place in front of the wheel?

 Cor van de Water
 Chief Scientist
 Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
 Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
 Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626


 -Original Message-
 From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of xfmr via EV
 Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 8:38 AM
 To: ev@lists.evdl.org
 Subject: [EVDL] winter parking brake

 I searched but didn't find a similar question.  If one exists and I
 missed it
 please redirect me.

 My question concerns manual transmissions and parking in the winter.
We
 don't use a parking brake in the winter here since the pads and shoes
 freeze
 to metal parts.  With no engine compression to hold the vehicle what
 have
 others done?

 Thank you for replys




 --
 View this message in context:

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/winter-park
 ing-brake-tp4669990.html

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/winter-par
king-brake-tp4669990.html
 Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
 Nabble.com.
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-- 
Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain
happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
*Dalai Lama *

Tell me what it is you plan to do
With your one wild and precious life?
Mary Oliver, The summer day.

To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. Edison
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 550-2430 Land
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Re: [EVDL] winter parking brake

2014-06-20 Thread Gary Krysztopik via EV
as well as the parking pawl that drops into the teeth on
the flywheel IIRC

The MES drive has an output to activate a parking pawl when in electronic
park.  I never implemented it but I thought it was a great idea.


On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 9:47 AM, John Lussmyer via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

 Probably Wheel Chocks would be the next choice.

 On Fri Jun 20 08:37:37 PDT 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
 I searched but didn't find a similar question.  If one exists and I
 missed it
 please redirect me.
 
 My question concerns manual transmissions and parking in the winter.  We
 don't use a parking brake in the winter here since the pads and shoes
 freeze
 to metal parts.  With no engine compression to hold the vehicle what have
 others done?


 --

 Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck!
 http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250

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Re: [EVDL] winter parking brake

2014-06-20 Thread Mark Grasser via EV
Help me here. I thought that if you shorted across the motor cables it would
not move, no?
Mark Grasser

as well as the parking pawl that drops into the teeth on the flywheel IIRC

The MES drive has an output to activate a parking pawl when in electronic
park.  I never implemented it but I thought it was a great idea.


On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 9:47 AM, John Lussmyer via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

 Probably Wheel Chocks would be the next choice.

 On Fri Jun 20 08:37:37 PDT 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
 I searched but didn't find a similar question.  If one exists and I
 missed it
 please redirect me.
 
 My question concerns manual transmissions and parking in the winter.  
 We don't use a parking brake in the winter here since the pads and 
 shoes
 freeze
 to metal parts.  With no engine compression to hold the vehicle what 
 have others done?


 --

 Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck!
 http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250

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Re: [EVDL] winter parking brake

2014-06-20 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
It will still move, a motor with magnets will move slower since any EMF
generated will cause a large current (short circuited generator) that
counter-acts the movement, but the reaction is proportional to the speed
of movement, so at slow speed there will hardly be any counter-action
and the vehicle will still roll away, not be held by a short circuited
motor.
NOTE that this is only the case for motors with an active excitation
such
as a PM (Permanent Magnet) motor. Any motor without active field will
not
generate any voltage, so whether shorted or not, so you can turn an ACIM
(AC Induction motor) for example as much as you like, it makes no
difference if it is shorted or not.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mark Grasser
via EV
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 5:36 PM
To: 'Gary Krysztopik'; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] winter parking brake

Help me here. I thought that if you shorted across the motor cables it
would
not move, no?
Mark Grasser

as well as the parking pawl that drops into the teeth on the flywheel
IIRC

The MES drive has an output to activate a parking pawl when in
electronic
park.  I never implemented it but I thought it was a great idea.


On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 9:47 AM, John Lussmyer via EV
ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

 Probably Wheel Chocks would be the next choice.

 On Fri Jun 20 08:37:37 PDT 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
 I searched but didn't find a similar question.  If one exists and I
 missed it
 please redirect me.
 
 My question concerns manual transmissions and parking in the winter.

 We don't use a parking brake in the winter here since the pads and 
 shoes
 freeze
 to metal parts.  With no engine compression to hold the vehicle what 
 have others done?


 --

 Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck!
 http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250

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 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)


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