Re: [EVDL] Heater

[corbin dunn via EV]

I did a post on that:

http://www.corbinstreehouse.com/blog/2010/11/plug-bug-electric-ceramic-heater/

corbin

> On Nov 28, 2017, at 2:19 PM, ROBERT via EV  wrote:
> 
> Sometimes during a conversation, the heater core is replaced with an electric 
> resistance heater.  For a small size car like a VW Bug, what size is used?  
> What is the wattage?
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Heater

[Alan Arrison via EV]

Isn't a bug air cooled? It doesn't have a heater core.

Do you mean a modern water cooled bug.

In any case, I use a tank heater and pump to circulate hot antifreeze 
through the original heater core.


The pro is you don't have to dig into the dash, the con is there is a 
bit of plumbing to do.


I consider 1500W the bare minimum. My tank heater is 3000W and does 
pretty well.


Al


On 11/28/2017 5:19 PM, ROBERT via EV wrote:

Sometimes during a conversation, the heater core is replaced with an electric 
resistance heater.  For a small size car like a VW Bug, what size is used?  
What is the wattage?

-- next part --
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Re: [EVDL] Heater

[Rod Hower via EV]

I had to look this up on Wikipedia since a 100% efficient resistive heater is 
hard to beat, but I guess I didn't understand that the heat pump is getting 
added energy from the environment.  "
Heat energy naturally transfers from warmer places to colder spaces. However, a 
heat pump can reverse this process, by absorbing heat from a cold space and 
releasing it to a warmer one. Heat is not conserved in this process and 
requires some amount of external energy, such as electricity. In heating, 
ventilation and air conditioning (HVAC) systems, the term heat pump usually 
refers to vapor-compression refrigeration devices optimized for high efficiency 
in both directions of thermal energy transfer. These heat pumps can be 
reversible, and work in either direction to provide heating or cooling to the 
internal space.Heat pumps are used to transfer heat because less high-grade 
energy is required than is released as heat. Most of the energy for heating 
comes from the external environment, only a fraction of which comes from 
electricity (or some other high-grade energy source required to run a 
compressor). In electrically-powered heat pumps, the heat transferred can be 
three or four times larger than the electrical power consumed, giving the 
system a coefficient of performance (COP) of 3 or 4, as opposed to a COP of 1 
for a conventional electrical resistance heater, in which all heat is produced 
from input electrical energy.Heat pumps use a refrigerant as an intermediate 
fluid to absorb heat where it vaporizes, in the evaporator, and then to release 
heat where the refrigerant condenses, in the condenser. The refrigerant flows 
through insulated pipes between the evaporator and the condenser, allowing for 
efficient thermal energy transfer at relatively long distances.[5] "
 

On Tuesday, November 28, 2017 8:42 PM, Bill Dube via EV  
wrote:
 

 If you what to get quite fancy, modern OEMs use a heat pump run with a 
small variable frequency drive. About 4x the efficiency of a resistive 
heater. No joke, and that is a serious increase in range in the winter. 
No doubt, you can get a Leaf compressor cheap in the bone yard.

By adding the proper valving, you have the bonus of air conditioning, 
but that is even more of a project. The good thing is, you can reuse the 
cars existing air conditioning condensor and evaporator and some of the 
A/C plumbing.

It can get quite complicated, however, and a resistive ceramic type 
heater core is, no doubt, the simplest option. I'd opt for a "high/low" 
switch (series-parallel?) on two ceramic heaters, or some sort of 
thermostat on the outgoing air from the heater(s).

Bill D.

On 11/28/2017 4:33 PM, Bob Bath via EV wrote:
> Respectfully, when I did Civicwithacord, the goal was defrosting the 
> windshield effectively, not keeping me warm. Yanking out the dash to install 
> the ceramic heater in the old fluid core housing was easily the biggest b---h 
> of the conversion, but the time and look and safety was well worth it!!
>
> Bob Bath, from his iPod, so any misspellings are from autocorrect or fat 
> fingers on a small device, not cluelessness...
>
>> On Nov 28, 2017, at 3:13 PM, Bill Dennis via EV  wrote:
>>
>> I used a 1500W heater core in my Geo Metro conversion, and I'd say that it
>> kept the car kinda "warmish" on really cold days.  But I think if I'd taken
>> the time to put extra insulation in the car, that would have helped.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>

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Re: [EVDL] Heater

[Bill Dube via EV]

If you what to get quite fancy, modern OEMs use a heat pump run with a 
small variable frequency drive. About 4x the efficiency of a resistive 
heater. No joke, and that is a serious increase in range in the winter. 
No doubt, you can get a Leaf compressor cheap in the bone yard.


By adding the proper valving, you have the bonus of air conditioning, 
but that is even more of a project. The good thing is, you can reuse the 
cars existing air conditioning condensor and evaporator and some of the 
A/C plumbing.


It can get quite complicated, however, and a resistive ceramic type 
heater core is, no doubt, the simplest option. I'd opt for a "high/low" 
switch (series-parallel?) on two ceramic heaters, or some sort of 
thermostat on the outgoing air from the heater(s).


Bill D.

On 11/28/2017 4:33 PM, Bob Bath via EV wrote:

Respectfully, when I did Civicwithacord, the goal was defrosting the windshield 
effectively, not keeping me warm. Yanking out the dash to install the ceramic 
heater in the old fluid core housing was easily the biggest b---h of the 
conversion, but the time and look and safety was well worth it!!

Bob Bath, from his iPod, so any misspellings are from autocorrect or fat 
fingers on a small device, not cluelessness...


On Nov 28, 2017, at 3:13 PM, Bill Dennis via EV  wrote:

I used a 1500W heater core in my Geo Metro conversion, and I'd say that it
kept the car kinda "warmish" on really cold days.   But I think if I'd taken
the time to put extra insulation in the car, that would have helped.

Bill




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Re: [EVDL] Heater

[Bob Bath via EV]

Respectfully, when I did Civicwithacord, the goal was defrosting the windshield 
effectively, not keeping me warm. Yanking out the dash to install the ceramic 
heater in the old fluid core housing was easily the biggest b---h of the 
conversion, but the time and look and safety was well worth it!!

Bob Bath, from his iPod, so any misspellings are from autocorrect or fat 
fingers on a small device, not cluelessness...

> On Nov 28, 2017, at 3:13 PM, Bill Dennis via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> 
> I used a 1500W heater core in my Geo Metro conversion, and I'd say that it
> kept the car kinda "warmish" on really cold days.   But I think if I'd taken
> the time to put extra insulation in the car, that would have helped.
> 
> Bill 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of ROBERT via EV
> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 3:20 PM
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc: ROBERT
> Subject: [EVDL] Heater
> 
> Sometimes during a conversation, the heater core is replaced with an
> electric resistance heater.  For a small size car like a VW Bug, what size
> is used?  What is the wattage?
> 
> -- next part --
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Re: [EVDL] Heater

[Bill Dennis via EV]

I used a 1500W heater core in my Geo Metro conversion, and I'd say that it
kept the car kinda "warmish" on really cold days.   But I think if I'd taken
the time to put extra insulation in the car, that would have helped.

Bill 

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of ROBERT via EV
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 3:20 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: ROBERT
Subject: [EVDL] Heater

Sometimes during a conversation, the heater core is replaced with an
electric resistance heater.  For a small size car like a VW Bug, what size
is used?  What is the wattage?

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[EVDL] Heater

[ROBERT via EV]

Sometimes during a conversation, the heater core is replaced with an electric 
resistance heater.  For a small size car like a VW Bug, what size is used?  
What is the wattage?

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Re: [EVDL] Heater solution for S-10 conversion, tips & tricks

[Cor van de Water via EV]

I have an old heater from a pool. Probably 40 Amp at 240v so about 10kW at that 
voltage. It even has the thermostat still attached but you will have to add a 
contactor to run it at DC. You can have it for shipping cost or pick up for 
free. 
Cor. 

> On Feb 16, 2016, at 9:46 PM, via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> 
> I am bringing back from Thailand a 6500 Watt on demand 240 volt water heater 
> that I plan to use with my next conversion.size 6x5x3 in.
> I will do the easy mods nessasary to run off pack voltage 240.
> 
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Roland via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> To: brucedp5 <bruce...@operamail.com>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
> <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> Sent: Wed, Feb 17, 2016 12:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heater solution for S-10 conversion, tips & tricks
> 
> 
> 
> I also left the original hot water heater core in the vehicle.  Can use 
> either the on board power or use a transfer switch to use commercial power to 
> preheat the heater while it is park and plug in.   This work great since I 
> did this modification back in 1980. 
> 
> 
> 
> Purchase most of the equipment from a local plumping and heating supply 
> house.  
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  The Element:  A standard 2500 watt / 250 volt hot water heater element 
> that can work on any voltage from 120 to 250 volts.  
> 
> 
> 
> 2.  The Tank:  A 3-inch copper pipe about 30 inches long with a tee fitting 
> at one
> 
>  end for a heater hose take off and threaded adapter to screw in the heater 
> 
>  element.   A reducer bell pipe cap to fit the 3/4 inch hose fittings.  
> 
> 
> 
> This tank and element was place on the same platform that the original engine 
> radiator was on.   
> 
> 
> 
> 3.   Fill Tank with pressure cap:  Use another 3 inch copper pipe place at 
> the same
> 
> position that the original radiator tank was in.  Had a radiator shop attach 
> a fill neck that takes a standard 15 lb pressure cap with a relief vent that 
> has a small hose to 
> 
> a overflow tank. 
> 
> 
> 
> 4.  A small 2.5 inch diameter by 4 inch brass circulating pump, 120 VAC @ 0.5 
> amp power by a 100 watt inverter you can get at JC Whitney that will run off 
> 12 vdc. 
> 
> 
> 
> The Fill tank, heater tank, and pump are all connected in series with the 
> heater hoses that are connected to the heater core. 
> 
> 
> 
> Both tanks and heater hoses are insulated with A/C high dense black foam hose 
> insulation you can get at Home Depot. 
> 
> 
> 
> Use a Honeywell immersing sensor that screws in a tee fitting of the hose 
> fitting that is connected to a Honeywell high temperature cut off.  I have my 
> set for 180 degrees F cut off with a 20 degrees differential that turns on at 
> 160 degrees.   
> 
> 
> 
> I use a 2 pole three position 30 amp 250 vac rated switch on the dash panel 
> to either select the on board power to the heater or 120/240 vac commercial 
> power while the main AC power plug is connected to the EV.  
> 
> 
> 
> The water heat takes longer than the two resistance cab heaters I am using.  
> In this High County (Montana), My EV was park at work while the temperature 
> was minus 35 below.  I use all three heaters which I turn on about 15 minutes 
> before I leave.  The inside cab area will get up to 80 degrees F. 
> 
> 
> 
> For the last 15 years, I only needed one heater to preheat the temperature to 
> 80 degrees in 15 minutes before I leave. 
> 
> 
> 
> Roland 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> 
> From: brucedp5 via EV< href="mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org?;>mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org> 
> 
> To: mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org;>ev@lists.evdl.org< href="mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org?;>mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org> 
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 3:58 PM
> 
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heater solution for S-10 conversion, tips & tricks
> 
> 
> 
> Originally my S-10 Blazer conversion had a resistive heater that barely
> defrosted the windshield after 15 minutes of warm up. At the time I did not
> mind as the weather back in the 1990's only saw 1 month of frost (now with
> the planet heating up, not at all). 
> 
> A few years later when I paid to have some other upgrades done, I had that
> wimpy heater replaced with a more powerful RUSSCO heater that used the
> original (hot water from the ice) heater-core (it drew 25A off my 120VDC
> pack). I did that for a couple of reasons, but mainly to reduce the
> complaints from the gal I was dating (I was warm, I had enoug

Re: [EVDL] Heater solution for S-10 conversion, tips & tricks

[Jan Steinman via EV]

> From: Roland via EV 
> 
> I also left the original hot water heater core in the vehicle.

I’m still working on the conversion, but I left the original hot water heater 
core in, too, and I’m planning on feeding it with a Webasto diesel-fired water 
heater. You can sometimes pick these up from bulletin boards at marianas, as 
they are commonly used for boat heating.

I know, I’m not “zero carbon” this way, but given how hard resistance heat 
sucks your battery, I just figure it’s like I’m getting about 500 miles to the 
gallon. :-)

 Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op  

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Re: [EVDL] Heater solution for S-10 conversion, tips & tricks

[via EV]

I am bringing back from Thailand a 6500 Watt on demand 240 volt water heater 
that I plan to use with my next conversion.size 6x5x3 in.
I will do the easy mods nessasary to run off pack voltage 240.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail


-Original Message-
From: Roland via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: brucedp5 <bruce...@operamail.com>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
<ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Wed, Feb 17, 2016 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heater solution for S-10 conversion, tips & tricks



I also left the original hot water heater core in the vehicle.  Can use either 
the on board power or use a transfer switch to use commercial power to preheat 
the heater while it is park and plug in.   This work great since I did this 
modification back in 1980. 

 

Purchase most of the equipment from a local plumping and heating supply house.  

 

1.  The Element:  A standard 2500 watt / 250 volt hot water heater element that 
can work on any voltage from 120 to 250 volts.  

 

2.  The Tank:  A 3-inch copper pipe about 30 inches long with a tee fitting at 
one

  end for a heater hose take off and threaded adapter to screw in the heater 

  element.   A reducer bell pipe cap to fit the 3/4 inch hose fittings.  

 

This tank and element was place on the same platform that the original engine 
radiator was on.   

 

3.   Fill Tank with pressure cap:  Use another 3 inch copper pipe place at the 
same

 position that the original radiator tank was in.  Had a radiator shop attach a 
fill neck that takes a standard 15 lb pressure cap with a relief vent that has 
a small hose to 

a overflow tank. 

 

4.  A small 2.5 inch diameter by 4 inch brass circulating pump, 120 VAC @ 0.5 
amp power by a 100 watt inverter you can get at JC Whitney that will run off 12 
vdc. 

 

The Fill tank, heater tank, and pump are all connected in series with the 
heater hoses that are connected to the heater core. 

 

Both tanks and heater hoses are insulated with A/C high dense black foam hose 
insulation you can get at Home Depot. 

 

Use a Honeywell immersing sensor that screws in a tee fitting of the hose 
fitting that is connected to a Honeywell high temperature cut off.  I have my 
set for 180 degrees F cut off with a 20 degrees differential that turns on at 
160 degrees.   

 

I use a 2 pole three position 30 amp 250 vac rated switch on the dash panel to 
either select the on board power to the heater or 120/240 vac commercial power 
while the main AC power plug is connected to the EV.  

 

The water heat takes longer than the two resistance cab heaters I am using.  In 
this High County (Montana), My EV was park at work while the temperature was 
minus 35 below.  I use all three heaters which I turn on about 15 minutes 
before I leave.  The inside cab area will get up to 80 degrees F. 

 

For the last 15 years, I only needed one heater to preheat the temperature to 
80 degrees in 15 minutes before I leave. 

 

Roland 

 



 

 

 

 

   




- Original Message - 

From: brucedp5 via EV<mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org?;>mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org> 

To: mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org;>ev@lists.evdl.org<mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org?;>mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org> 

Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 3:58 PM

Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heater solution for S-10 conversion, tips & tricks



Originally my S-10 Blazer conversion had a resistive heater that barely
defrosted the windshield after 15 minutes of warm up. At the time I did not
mind as the weather back in the 1990's only saw 1 month of frost (now with
the planet heating up, not at all). 

A few years later when I paid to have some other upgrades done, I had that
wimpy heater replaced with a more powerful RUSSCO heater that used the
original (hot water from the ice) heater-core (it drew 25A off my 120VDC
pack). I did that for a couple of reasons, but mainly to reduce the
complaints from the gal I was dating (I was warm, I had enough clothes on,
etc.). That heater worked like a champ and I had heat quicker than she could
complain.

I doubt you could still get a RUSSCO heater, but there are other heater
solutions.
I found a few links links for you to explore:
http://www.canev.com/heater.php; 
target="_blank">http://www.canev.com/heater.php

http://www.metricmind.com/category/ev-fluid-heaters/; 
target="_blank">http://www.metricmind.com/category/ev-fluid-heaters/

I hope others will reply with what they use.




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: 
http://evdl.org/evln/; target="_blank">http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.150m.com}

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target="_blank">http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Resistive-heater-core-access-for-S-10-conversion-EVA-kit-tips-tricks-tp4680

Re: [EVDL] Heater solution for S-10 conversion, tips & tricks

[Roland via EV]

   
I also left the original hot water heater core in the vehicle.  Can use either 
the on board power or use a transfer switch to use commercial power to preheat 
the heater while it is park and plug in.   This work great since I did this 
modification back in 1980. 

 

Purchase most of the equipment from a local plumping and heating supply house.  

 

1.  The Element:  A standard 2500 watt / 250 volt hot water heater element that 
can work on any voltage from 120 to 250 volts.  

 

2.  The Tank:  A 3-inch copper pipe about 30 inches long with a tee fitting at 
one

  end for a heater hose take off and threaded adapter to screw in the heater 

  element.   A reducer bell pipe cap to fit the 3/4 inch hose fittings.  

 

This tank and element was place on the same platform that the original engine 
radiator was on.   

 

3.   Fill Tank with pressure cap:  Use another 3 inch copper pipe place at the 
same

 position that the original radiator tank was in.  Had a radiator shop attach a 
fill neck that takes a standard 15 lb pressure cap with a relief vent that has 
a small hose to 

a overflow tank. 

 

4.  A small 2.5 inch diameter by 4 inch brass circulating pump, 120 VAC @ 0.5 
amp power by a 100 watt inverter you can get at JC Whitney that will run off 12 
vdc. 

 

The Fill tank, heater tank, and pump are all connected in series with the 
heater hoses that are connected to the heater core. 

 

Both tanks and heater hoses are insulated with A/C high dense black foam hose 
insulation you can get at Home Depot. 

 

Use a Honeywell immersing sensor that screws in a tee fitting of the hose 
fitting that is connected to a Honeywell high temperature cut off.  I have my 
set for 180 degrees F cut off with a 20 degrees differential that turns on at 
160 degrees.   

 

I use a 2 pole three position 30 amp 250 vac rated switch on the dash panel to 
either select the on board power to the heater or 120/240 vac commercial power 
while the main AC power plug is connected to the EV.  

 

The water heat takes longer than the two resistance cab heaters I am using.  In 
this High County (Montana), My EV was park at work while the temperature was 
minus 35 below.  I use all three heaters which I turn on about 15 minutes 
before I leave.  The inside cab area will get up to 80 degrees F. 

 

For the last 15 years, I only needed one heater to preheat the temperature to 
80 degrees in 15 minutes before I leave. 

 

Roland 

 



 

 

 

 

   




- Original Message - 

From: brucedp5 via EV<mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org> 

To: ev@lists.evdl.org<mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org> 

Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 3:58 PM

Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heater solution for S-10 conversion, tips & tricks



Originally my S-10 Blazer conversion had a resistive heater that barely
defrosted the windshield after 15 minutes of warm up. At the time I did not
mind as the weather back in the 1990's only saw 1 month of frost (now with
the planet heating up, not at all). 

A few years later when I paid to have some other upgrades done, I had that
wimpy heater replaced with a more powerful RUSSCO heater that used the
original (hot water from the ice) heater-core (it drew 25A off my 120VDC
pack). I did that for a couple of reasons, but mainly to reduce the
complaints from the gal I was dating (I was warm, I had enough clothes on,
etc.). That heater worked like a champ and I had heat quicker than she could
complain.

I doubt you could still get a RUSSCO heater, but there are other heater
solutions.
I found a few links links for you to explore:
http://www.canev.com/heater.php

http://www.metricmind.com/category/ev-fluid-heaters/

I hope others will reply with what they use.




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: 
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.150m.com}

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http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Resistive-heater-core-access-for-S-10-conversion-EVA-kit-tips-tricks-tp4680519p4680524.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] Heater solution for S-10 conversion, tips & tricks

[John Lussmyer via EV]

On Tue Feb 16 14:58:48 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>I hope others will reply with what they use.

I'm using a pair of Ceramic heater cores from 120V household heaters. 
I re-wired the sections in them (seem to be about 60V each) to be nominally 
240V heater cores.
I drive them off my 320V pack.
I currently get about 2KW of heat - which is barely enough for my big truck 
cab.  (it defogs the windows, and very slowly heats the cab.)


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Re: [EVDL] Heater solution for S-10 conversion, tips & tricks

[brucedp5 via EV]

Originally my S-10 Blazer conversion had a resistive heater that barely
defrosted the windshield after 15 minutes of warm up. At the time I did not
mind as the weather back in the 1990's only saw 1 month of frost (now with
the planet heating up, not at all). 

A few years later when I paid to have some other upgrades done, I had that
wimpy heater replaced with a more powerful RUSSCO heater that used the
original (hot water from the ice) heater-core (it drew 25A off my 120VDC
pack). I did that for a couple of reasons, but mainly to reduce the
complaints from the gal I was dating (I was warm, I had enough clothes on,
etc.). That heater worked like a champ and I had heat quicker than she could
complain.

I doubt you could still get a RUSSCO heater, but there are other heater
solutions.
I found a few links links for you to explore:
http://www.canev.com/heater.php

http://www.metricmind.com/category/ev-fluid-heaters/

I hope others will reply with what they use.




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