Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Vehicle-apartheid! RI law punishes EV & hybrid drivers

[Ben Apollonio via EV]

Stickers!?!?  Hell no!  I'd much rather have a fancy license plate that 
advertises my car's electric drivetrain than have to cover my poor, beautiful 
car with stickers!

Here in MA, we have optional EV plates.  I have one and rather like it.

-Ben


On Aug 20, 2014, at 9:54 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV  wrote:

> Oddly, the link to the bill referred to includes none of the language being 
> discussed in some of the articles.
> 
> The language only authorizes the state motor vehicles folks to makes 
> regulations for special plates. It doesn't even requires them to do so. 
> 
> Arguably it could apply to at least some FCEVs, as some are hybrids.
> 
> For example, yesterday I saw a truck that was a battery dominant FCEV hybrid.
> 
> But I agree with your concerns about where the burden seems to be placed, at 
> least according to the articles.(the bill language you linked doesn't do that 
> - it's left to their DMV to decide).
> 
> I wonder why they don't just use stickers as is done for CNG and H2 fueled 
> vehicles.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 20, 2014, at 12:21 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> % Simple dealer provided stickers will do (like for HOV lane access). The
>> law does not apply to fcvs: since when do fcvs not have high-voltages? ...
>> This ignorantly & badly written, and poorly implemented 'separate &
>> not-equal' law incorrectly labels EVs & hybrids as extraordinarily
>> dangerous, as if volatile chemical-fuel is not, plus puts the burden of
>> responder-safety on the driver at an additional cost. This issue is a
>> vehicle-manufacturer responsibility: to each have common locations for
>> high-voltage wiring, like the way fuel-tanks and fuel lines are commonly
>> located on ice %
>> 
>> http://www.abc6.com/story/26316308/new-license-plate-may-help-save-lives
>> New license plate may help save lives
>> Aug 19, 2014  By Alana Cerrone
>> 
>> A new license plate may help protect first responders from accidentally
>> electrocuting themselves during accident rescues involving electric
>> vehicles. 
>> 
>> The bill signed into law by Gov. Lincoln Chafee last month requires electric
>> vehicle owners to have a special license plate so that first responders,
>> emergency crews, and even two truck drivers know it is electric. 
>> 
>> Knowing if a vehicle is electric will help crews decide which instrument is
>> appropriate to use to rescue people trapped inside.
>> 
>> “It is not very well-known that rescue workers can get electrocuted from
>> using jaws of life on an electric vehicle, but when that information came to
>> light I wanted us to be proactive about the issue,” said Senator Edward
>> O'Neill, who sponsored the law. 
>> 
>> The law applies to electric and also hybrid vehicle owners. 
>> [© WLNE-TV 2014]
>> ...
>> http://www.valleybreeze.com/2014-08-06/woonsocket-north-smithfield/state-creates-new-plates-electric-vehicles#.U-eA4mOTKHM
>> State creates new plates for electric vehicles 
>> 8/6/2014
>> ...
>> http://insideevs.com/rhode-island-issues-special-license-plates-electric-vehicles-protect-first-responders/
>> ... create special license plates for electric vehicles? ...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/28152-Are-EV-License-Plates-Dangerous-to-Occupants-of-a-Tesla
>> Thread: Are EV License Plates Dangerous to Occupants of a Tesla
>> 2014-03-01
>> ...
>> http://webserver.rilin.state.ri.us/BillText/BillText14/SenateText14/S2120A.pdf
>> 2014-S 2120 SUBSTITUTE A ...
>> 'a registration plate for motor vehicles powered in whole or in part by a
>> storage battery.'
>> ...
>> http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/pressrelease/_layouts/RIL.PressRelease.ListStructure/Forms/DisplayForm.aspx?List=c8baae31-3c10-431c-8dcd-9dbbe21ce3e9&ID=10091
>> 7/31/2014 Electric vehicle license plates will protect first responders,
>> rescue service workers
>> STATE HOUSE ... The special registration plate will apply to hybrids in
>> addition to electric vehicles. Senators Marc A. Cote (D-Dist. 24,
>> Woonsocket, North Smithfield), Paul W. Fogarty (D-Dist. 23, Glocester,
>> Burrillville, North Smithfield), Nicholas D. Kettle (R-Dist. 21, Coventry,
>> Foster, Scituate, West Greenwich) and James E. Doyle II (D-Dist. 8,
>> Pawtucket) cosponsored the legislation.
>> For more information, contact:
>> Brenna McCabe, Publicist
>> State House Room 20
>> Providence, RI 02903
>> (401) 222-2457
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For all EVLN posts use:
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=evln&sort=date
>> 
>> http://www.electricautosport.com/2014/08/venturi-realise-600-kmh-electric-speed-record/
>> Venturi to realize 600+ km/h electric speed record
>> 
>> http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2007153237
>> Julie Wrigley’s sleek, chewing-gum red Tesla-S EV
>> 
>> http://www.ibtimes.com/tesla-norway-436-model-s-sedans-are-being-delivered-monthly-teslas-largest-overseas-market-1658946
>> 436 Tesla-S Delivered Mon

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Vehicle-apartheid! RI law punishes EV & hybrid drivers

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

I wonder if done of this overreaction is coming from materials from the 
manufacturers themselves.

Look at some of the dismantling instructions from Nissan for the Leaf:

http://elvsolutions.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/2013-Nissan-LEAF-DG.pdf

I have a first responders app on my phone that also warns not to cut various 
places due to potential hazard.

People really need to place these things in context, or you get overreaction by 
regulators.

That behind said, I'm still not seeing anything in the bill that requires 
anything. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 21, 2014, at 1:24 AM, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:
> 
> This supposed "electrocution" hazard posed by electric vehicles is an all too 
> common myth.
> 
> First off, commercial EVs have an inertia switch which cuts the main 
> contractors at the pack. You are in a wreck, the power is automatically cut 
> off by the inertia switch. The only component with HV is the traction battery 
> itself.
> 
> Second, electricity wants to flow from one terminal of the battery to the 
> other terminal. It is an isolated battery, rather than a grounded "grid" 
> system. How would a fireman insert himself into such an isolated circuit? A 
> grid based grounded system its pretty easy to insert yourself, but how do you 
> get current to flow through _you_ by simply cutting into an EV? The blade 
> might short two wires of opposite polarity, but current would flow though the 
> blade only, not the fireman.
> 
> Bill D.
> 
> 
>> On 8/20/2014 1:21 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
>> 
>> % Simple dealer provided stickers will do (like for HOV lane access). The
>> law does not apply to fcvs: since when do fcvs not have high-voltages? ...
>> This ignorantly & badly written, and poorly implemented 'separate &
>> not-equal' law incorrectly labels EVs & hybrids as extraordinarily
>> dangerous, as if volatile chemical-fuel is not, plus puts the burden of
>> responder-safety on the driver at an additional cost. This issue is a
>> vehicle-manufacturer responsibility: to each have common locations for
>> high-voltage wiring, like the way fuel-tanks and fuel lines are commonly
>> located on ice %
>> 
>> http://www.abc6.com/story/26316308/new-license-plate-may-help-save-lives
>> New license plate may help save lives
>> Aug 19, 2014  By Alana Cerrone
>> 
>> A new license plate may help protect first responders from accidentally
>> electrocuting themselves during accident rescues involving electric
>> vehicles.
>> 
>> The bill signed into law by Gov. Lincoln Chafee last month requires electric
>> vehicle owners to have a special license plate so that first responders,
>> emergency crews, and even two truck drivers know it is electric.
>> 
>> Knowing if a vehicle is electric will help crews decide which instrument is
>> appropriate to use to rescue people trapped inside.
>> 
>> “It is not very well-known that rescue workers can get electrocuted from
>> using jaws of life on an electric vehicle, but when tha
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Vehicle-apartheid! RI law punishes EV & hybrid drivers

[Zeke Yewdall via EV]

George,

This seems typical of what is required to make major changes to highway
intersections, example... the requisite number of deaths.  And sometimes,
it's not just one...  There was a wye intersection between two highways
near my house growing up that had to have a log truck take out a car full
of kids, after several other smaller fatal wrecks, before they changed it
to a T with a stop sign for one direction.

I have not heard any instances yet of an emergency responder being
electrocuted by a hybrid or an EV.   I know the local fire departments here
have done training specifically on Prius's a few years ago when they were
getting popular.  There was a chopped apart, set on fire, prius in the lot
in front of one of the training facilities for a while, sparking rumors
from people who drove by and didn't know why it was there that Prius's
explode while parked, though.

Similarly, we tried a few years ago to get a solar license through the
state department of regulatory agencies... since the solar industry was
starting to boom and we were concerned about quality of the installation by
untrained people.  Their answer was that there hadn't been any serious
complaint about quality yet, and no one had been killed, so there was no
need for a license.  Well... there still haven't been any serious injuries
or deaths that I know about, but quality is definitely been a sore point in
this state, partially because you do not need any license (other than a
state licensed electrician to sign off on it, but that only covers about
25% of the system).

Zeke


On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 3:35 AM, George Tyler via EV 
wrote:

> Funny, I phoned the council not long ago to ask them to do something about
> speeding cars in the rural dead end street past my house. They said they
> would only do it if someone was killed or injured. I know of other similar
> events where people were killed before they changed anything. It's all
> based on statistics.
> How many of the general population have been electrocuted by
> electric cars?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Dube via EV
> Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2014 8:24 p.m.
> To: brucedp5; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Vehicle-apartheid! RI law punishes EV & hybrid
> drivers
>
> This supposed "electrocution" hazard posed by electric vehicles is an all
> too common myth.
>
> First off, commercial EVs have an inertia switch which cuts the main
> contractors at the pack. You are in a wreck, the power is automatically cut
> off by the inertia switch. The only component with HV is the traction
> battery itself.
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Vehicle-apartheid! RI law punishes EV & hybrid drivers

[George Tyler via EV]

Funny, I phoned the council not long ago to ask them to do something about 
speeding cars in the rural dead end street past my house. They said they would 
only do it if someone was killed or injured. I know of other similar events 
where people were killed before they changed anything. It's all based on 
statistics. 
How many of the general population have been electrocuted by electric 
cars? 

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Dube via EV
Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2014 8:24 p.m.
To: brucedp5; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Vehicle-apartheid! RI law punishes EV & hybrid drivers

This supposed "electrocution" hazard posed by electric vehicles is an all too 
common myth.

First off, commercial EVs have an inertia switch which cuts the main 
contractors at the pack. You are in a wreck, the power is automatically cut off 
by the inertia switch. The only component with HV is the traction battery 
itself.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Vehicle-apartheid! RI law punishes EV & hybrid drivers

[Bill Dube via EV]

This supposed "electrocution" hazard posed by electric vehicles is an 
all too common myth.


First off, commercial EVs have an inertia switch which cuts the main 
contractors at the pack. You are in a wreck, the power is automatically 
cut off by the inertia switch. The only component with HV is the 
traction battery itself.


Second, electricity wants to flow from one terminal of the battery to 
the other terminal. It is an isolated battery, rather than a grounded 
"grid" system. How would a fireman insert himself into such an isolated 
circuit? A grid based grounded system its pretty easy to insert 
yourself, but how do you get current to flow through _you_ by simply 
cutting into an EV? The blade might short two wires of opposite 
polarity, but current would flow though the blade only, not the fireman.


Bill D.


On 8/20/2014 1:21 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


% Simple dealer provided stickers will do (like for HOV lane access). The
law does not apply to fcvs: since when do fcvs not have high-voltages? ...
This ignorantly & badly written, and poorly implemented 'separate &
not-equal' law incorrectly labels EVs & hybrids as extraordinarily
dangerous, as if volatile chemical-fuel is not, plus puts the burden of
responder-safety on the driver at an additional cost. This issue is a
vehicle-manufacturer responsibility: to each have common locations for
high-voltage wiring, like the way fuel-tanks and fuel lines are commonly
located on ice %

http://www.abc6.com/story/26316308/new-license-plate-may-help-save-lives
New license plate may help save lives
Aug 19, 2014  By Alana Cerrone

A new license plate may help protect first responders from accidentally
electrocuting themselves during accident rescues involving electric
vehicles.

The bill signed into law by Gov. Lincoln Chafee last month requires electric
vehicle owners to have a special license plate so that first responders,
emergency crews, and even two truck drivers know it is electric.

Knowing if a vehicle is electric will help crews decide which instrument is
appropriate to use to rescue people trapped inside.

“It is not very well-known that rescue workers can get electrocuted from
using jaws of life on an electric vehicle, but when that information came to
light I wanted us to be proactive about the issue,” said Senator Edward
O'Neill, who sponsored the law.

The law applies to electric and also hybrid vehicle owners.
[© WLNE-TV 2014]
...
http://www.valleybreeze.com/2014-08-06/woonsocket-north-smithfield/state-creates-new-plates-electric-vehicles#.U-eA4mOTKHM
State creates new plates for electric vehicles
8/6/2014
...
http://insideevs.com/rhode-island-issues-special-license-plates-electric-vehicles-protect-first-responders/
  ... create special license plates for electric vehicles? ...



http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/28152-Are-EV-License-Plates-Dangerous-to-Occupants-of-a-Tesla
Thread: Are EV License Plates Dangerous to Occupants of a Tesla
2014-03-01
...
http://webserver.rilin.state.ri.us/BillText/BillText14/SenateText14/S2120A.pdf
2014-S 2120 SUBSTITUTE A ...
'a registration plate for motor vehicles powered in whole or in part by a
storage battery.'
...
http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/pressrelease/_layouts/RIL.PressRelease.ListStructure/Forms/DisplayForm.aspx?List=c8baae31-3c10-431c-8dcd-9dbbe21ce3e9&ID=10091
7/31/2014 Electric vehicle license plates will protect first responders,
rescue service workers
STATE HOUSE ... The special registration plate will apply to hybrids in
addition to electric vehicles. Senators Marc A. Cote (D-Dist. 24,
Woonsocket, North Smithfield), Paul W. Fogarty (D-Dist. 23, Glocester,
Burrillville, North Smithfield), Nicholas D. Kettle (R-Dist. 21, Coventry,
Foster, Scituate, West Greenwich) and James E. Doyle II (D-Dist. 8,
Pawtucket) cosponsored the legislation.
For more information, contact:
Brenna McCabe, Publicist
State House Room 20
Providence, RI 02903
(401) 222-2457




For all EVLN posts use:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=evln&sort=date

http://www.electricautosport.com/2014/08/venturi-realise-600-kmh-electric-speed-record/
Venturi to realize 600+ km/h electric speed record

http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2007153237
Julie Wrigley’s sleek, chewing-gum red Tesla-S EV

http://www.ibtimes.com/tesla-norway-436-model-s-sedans-are-being-delivered-monthly-teslas-largest-overseas-market-1658946
436 Tesla-S Delivered Monthly In Norway> it’s Largest Overseas Market

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/life/2014/08/14/missoula-family-seeks-record-longest-bike-ride/14087677/
Missoula family seeks record for longest Electric bicycle ride

http://news.investors.com/081214-712980-tesla-adds-station-in-france.htm
Tesla adds 50th Euro Supercharger EVSE @Narbonne, France
+
EVLN: Tesla-S EV Power-trip e-Journeys from Mexico to Alaska


{brucedp.150m.com}



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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Vehicle-apartheid! RI law punishes EV &hybrid drivers

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Please close this thread, it has no longer relevance to EV.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626

George Tyler wrote:
There is an article on internet somewhere on a V8 hydrogen car that runs
with no throttling, like a diesel and gets diesel like economy. Hydrogen
burns over a wide range of mixture, down to 5%.
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Vehicle-apartheid! RI law punishes EV & hybrid drivers

[George Tyler via EV]

There is an article on internet somewhere on a V8 hydrogen car that runs
with no throttling, like a diesel and gets diesel like economy. Hydrogen
burns over a wide range of mixture, down to 5%.

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via EV
Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2014 10:06 a.m.
To: Mark Abramowitz; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Vehicle-apartheid! RI law punishes EV & hybrid
drivers

On Aug 20, 2014, at 12:42 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV 
wrote:

>> Other Hydrogen systems use the hydrogen as fuel for the ICE. 
> 
> I'm not aware of any of these, but would certainly be interested in
learning about where it is being done.

Regular gasoline engines are, for the most part, equally happy burning
stoichiometric mixes of gasoline, propane, or hydrogen gas. Replace the fuel
delivery system to provide that mixture to the combustion chambers and the
rest will run just fine.

There are caveats. Energy density is different, so power production differs.
Compressibility of the gas mixtures differ, so you need different timing for
optimum results. And hydrogen does really nasty things to metals and gaskets
with prolonged exposure.

But the basic mechanics are the same.

Wikipedia has a good article for a starting point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_internal_combustion_engine_vehicle

Note that this doesn't apply to diesel engines...but, with those, you can
substitute jet fuel, kerosene, or olive oil for diesel with (similarly
relatively) minor necessary modifications.

Cheers,

b&
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Vehicle-apartheid! RI law punishes EV & hybrid drivers

[Ben Goren via EV]

On Aug 20, 2014, at 12:42 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV  wrote:

>> Other Hydrogen systems use the hydrogen as fuel for the ICE. 
> 
> I'm not aware of any of these, but would certainly be interested in learning 
> about where it is being done.

Regular gasoline engines are, for the most part, equally happy burning 
stoichiometric mixes of gasoline, propane, or hydrogen gas. Replace the fuel 
delivery system to provide that mixture to the combustion chambers and the rest 
will run just fine.

There are caveats. Energy density is different, so power production differs. 
Compressibility of the gas mixtures differ, so you need different timing for 
optimum results. And hydrogen does really nasty things to metals and gaskets 
with prolonged exposure.

But the basic mechanics are the same.

Wikipedia has a good article for a starting point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_internal_combustion_engine_vehicle

Note that this doesn't apply to diesel engines...but, with those, you can 
substitute jet fuel, kerosene, or olive oil for diesel with (similarly 
relatively) minor necessary modifications.

Cheers,

b&
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Vehicle-apartheid! RI law punishes EV & hybrid drivers

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

On Aug 20, 2014, at 11:04 AM, Dennis Miles  wrote:
> 
> The state of the art for fuel cell powered vehicles mandates a battery and 
> electric motor system.

On Aug 20, 2014, at 11:04 AM, Dennis Miles  wrote:
> 
> The state of the art for fuel cell powered vehicles mandates a battery and 
> electric motor system.

I'd say "it depends." Likely this will change over time as both batteries and 
fuel cells evolve.

Ultimately, my guess is that you'll see mostly hybrids taking advantage of the 
strengths of both. But this all seems to be application dependent.


> Because, economical fuel cell systems are only practical as trickle chargers 
> or range extenders with the battery concentrating power for accelerating in 
> traffic, or as needed.  

Not the case. I just yesterday saw a site where fuel cells replaced batteries 
for materials handling.  The economics provide a payback to the company.

> Other Hydrogen systems use the hydrogen as fuel for the ICE. 

I'm not aware of any of these, but would certainly be interested in learning 
about where it is being done.


> 
> Dennis Lee Miles 
> 
> (evprofes...@evprofessor.com) 
> 
>  Founder:EV Tech. Institute Inc.
> 
> Phone # (863) 944-9913 (12 noon to 12 midnight Eastern US Time) 
> 
> Educating yourself, does not mean you were stupid; it means, you are 
> intelligent enough,  to know, that there is plenty left to learn!
> 
>   You Tube Video link:  http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss 
> NEW You Tube Video link: http://youtu. be/Pz9-TZtySh8
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV  
>> wrote:
>> Oddly, the link to the bill referred to includes none of the language being 
>> discussed in some of the articles.
>> 
>> The language only authorizes the state motor vehicles folks to makes 
>> regulations for special plates. It doesn't even requires them to do so.
>> 
>> Arguably it could apply to at least some FCEVs, as some are hybrids.
>> 
>> For example, yesterday I saw a truck that was a battery dominant FCEV hybrid.
>> 
>> But I agree with your concerns about where the burden seems to be placed, at 
>> least according to the articles.(the bill language you linked doesn't do 
>> that - it's left to their DMV to decide).
>> 
>> I wonder why they don't just use stickers as is done for CNG and H2 fueled 
>> vehicles.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Aug 20, 2014, at 12:21 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > % Simple dealer provided stickers will do (like for HOV lane access). The
>> > law does not apply to fcvs: since when do fcvs not have high-voltages? ...
>> > This ignorantly & badly written, and poorly implemented 'separate &
>> > not-equal' law incorrectly labels EVs & hybrids as extraordinarily
>> > dangerous, as if volatile chemical-fuel is not, plus puts the burden of
>> > responder-safety on the driver at an additional cost. This issue is a
>> > vehicle-manufacturer responsibility: to each have common locations for
>> > high-voltage wiring, like the way fuel-tanks and fuel lines are commonly
>> > located on ice %
>> >
>> > http://www.abc6.com/story/26316308/new-license-plate-may-help-save-lives
>> > New license plate may help save lives
>> > Aug 19, 2014  By Alana Cerrone
>> >
>> > A new license plate may help protect first responders from accidentally
>> > electrocuting themselves during accident rescues involving electric
>> > vehicles.
>> >
>> > The bill signed into law by Gov. Lincoln Chafee last month requires 
>> > electric
>> > vehicle owners to have a special license plate so that first responders,
>> > emergency crews, and even two truck drivers know it is electric.
>> >
>> > Knowing if a vehicle is electric will help crews decide which instrument is
>> > appropriate to use to rescue people trapped inside.
>> >
>> > “It is not very well-known that rescue workers can get electrocuted from
>> > using jaws of life on an electric vehicle, but when that information came 
>> > to
>> > light I wanted us to be proactive about the issue,” said Senator Edward
>> > O'Neill, who sponsored the law.
>> >
>> > The law applies to electric and also hybrid vehicle owners.
>> > [© WLNE-TV 2014]
>> > ...
>> > http://www.valleybreeze.com/2014-08-06/woonsocket-north-smithfield/state-creates-new-plates-electric-vehicles#.U-eA4mOTKHM
>> > State creates new plates for electric vehicles
>> > 8/6/2014
>> > ...
>> > http://insideevs.com/rhode-island-issues-special-license-plates-electric-vehicles-protect-first-responders/
>> > ... create special license plates for electric vehicles? ...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/28152-Are-EV-License-Plates-Dangerous-to-Occupants-of-a-Tesla
>> > Thread: Are EV License Plates Dangerous to Occupants of a Tesla
>> > 2014-03-01
>> > ...
>> > http://webserver.rilin.state.ri.us/BillText/BillText14/SenateText14/S2120A.pdf
>> > 2014-S 2120 SUBSTITUTE A ...
>> > 'a registration plate for motor vehicles powered in whole or in part by a
>> > stora

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Vehicle-apartheid! RI law punishes EV & hybrid drivers

[Dennis Miles via EV]

The state of the art for fuel cell powered vehicles mandates a battery and
electric motor system. Because, economical fuel cell systems are only
practical as trickle chargers or range extenders with the battery
concentrating power for accelerating in traffic, or as needed.  Other
Hydrogen systems use the hydrogen as fuel for the ICE.

Dennis Lee Miles

(*evprofes...@evprofessor.com )*

* Founder:**EV Tech. Institute Inc.*

*Phone #* *(863) 944-9913 (12 noon to 12 midnight Eastern US Time)*

*Educating yourself, does not mean you were **stupid; it means, you are
intelligent enough,  **to know, that there is plenty left to learn!*

*  You Tube Video link:  http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss
 *

*NEW You Tube Video link: *http://youtu. be/Pz9-TZtySh8



On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV 
wrote:

> Oddly, the link to the bill referred to includes none of the language
> being discussed in some of the articles.
>
> The language only authorizes the state motor vehicles folks to makes
> regulations for special plates. It doesn't even requires them to do so.
>
> Arguably it could apply to at least some FCEVs, as some are hybrids.
>
> For example, yesterday I saw a truck that was a battery dominant FCEV
> hybrid.
>
> But I agree with your concerns about where the burden seems to be placed,
> at least according to the articles.(the bill language you linked doesn't do
> that - it's left to their DMV to decide).
>
> I wonder why they don't just use stickers as is done for CNG and H2 fueled
> vehicles.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 20, 2014, at 12:21 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > % Simple dealer provided stickers will do (like for HOV lane access). The
> > law does not apply to fcvs: since when do fcvs not have high-voltages?
> ...
> > This ignorantly & badly written, and poorly implemented 'separate &
> > not-equal' law incorrectly labels EVs & hybrids as extraordinarily
> > dangerous, as if volatile chemical-fuel is not, plus puts the burden of
> > responder-safety on the driver at an additional cost. This issue is a
> > vehicle-manufacturer responsibility: to each have common locations for
> > high-voltage wiring, like the way fuel-tanks and fuel lines are commonly
> > located on ice %
> >
> > http://www.abc6.com/story/26316308/new-license-plate-may-help-save-lives
> > New license plate may help save lives
> > Aug 19, 2014  By Alana Cerrone
> >
> > A new license plate may help protect first responders from accidentally
> > electrocuting themselves during accident rescues involving electric
> > vehicles.
> >
> > The bill signed into law by Gov. Lincoln Chafee last month requires
> electric
> > vehicle owners to have a special license plate so that first responders,
> > emergency crews, and even two truck drivers know it is electric.
> >
> > Knowing if a vehicle is electric will help crews decide which instrument
> is
> > appropriate to use to rescue people trapped inside.
> >
> > "It is not very well-known that rescue workers can get electrocuted from
> > using jaws of life on an electric vehicle, but when that information
> came to
> > light I wanted us to be proactive about the issue," said Senator Edward
> > O'Neill, who sponsored the law.
> >
> > The law applies to electric and also hybrid vehicle owners.
> > [(c) WLNE-TV 2014]
> > ...
> >
> http://www.valleybreeze.com/2014-08-06/woonsocket-north-smithfield/state-creates-new-plates-electric-vehicles#.U-eA4mOTKHM
> > State creates new plates for electric vehicles
> > 8/6/2014
> > ...
> >
> http://insideevs.com/rhode-island-issues-special-license-plates-electric-vehicles-protect-first-responders/
> > ... create special license plates for electric vehicles? ...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/28152-Are-EV-License-Plates-Dangerous-to-Occupants-of-a-Tesla
> > Thread: Are EV License Plates Dangerous to Occupants of a Tesla
> > 2014-03-01
> > ...
> >
> http://webserver.rilin.state.ri.us/BillText/BillText14/SenateText14/S2120A.pdf
> > 2014-S 2120 SUBSTITUTE A ...
> > 'a registration plate for motor vehicles powered in whole or in part by a
> > storage battery.'
> > ...
> >
> http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/pressrelease/_layouts/RIL.PressRelease.ListStructure/Forms/DisplayForm.aspx?List=c8baae31-3c10-431c-8dcd-9dbbe21ce3e9&ID=10091
> > 7/31/2014 Electric vehicle license plates will protect first responders,
> > rescue service workers
> > STATE HOUSE ... The special registration plate will apply to hybrids in
> > addition to electric vehicles. Senators Marc A. Cote (D-Dist. 24,
> > Woonsocket, North Smithfield), Paul W. Fogarty (D-Dist. 23, Glocester,
> > Burrillville, North Smithfield), Nicholas D. Kettle (R-Dist. 21,
> Coventry,
> > Foster, Scituate, West Greenwich) and James E. Doyle II (D-Dist. 8,
> > Pawtucket) cosponsored the legislation.
> > For more information, contact:
> > Brenna McCabe, Publicist
> > State House Room 20

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Vehicle-apartheid! RI law punishes EV & hybrid drivers

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

Oddly, the link to the bill referred to includes none of the language being 
discussed in some of the articles.

The language only authorizes the state motor vehicles folks to makes 
regulations for special plates. It doesn't even requires them to do so. 

Arguably it could apply to at least some FCEVs, as some are hybrids.

For example, yesterday I saw a truck that was a battery dominant FCEV hybrid.

But I agree with your concerns about where the burden seems to be placed, at 
least according to the articles.(the bill language you linked doesn't do that - 
it's left to their DMV to decide).

I wonder why they don't just use stickers as is done for CNG and H2 fueled 
vehicles.



Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 20, 2014, at 12:21 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> % Simple dealer provided stickers will do (like for HOV lane access). The
> law does not apply to fcvs: since when do fcvs not have high-voltages? ...
> This ignorantly & badly written, and poorly implemented 'separate &
> not-equal' law incorrectly labels EVs & hybrids as extraordinarily
> dangerous, as if volatile chemical-fuel is not, plus puts the burden of
> responder-safety on the driver at an additional cost. This issue is a
> vehicle-manufacturer responsibility: to each have common locations for
> high-voltage wiring, like the way fuel-tanks and fuel lines are commonly
> located on ice %
> 
> http://www.abc6.com/story/26316308/new-license-plate-may-help-save-lives
> New license plate may help save lives
> Aug 19, 2014  By Alana Cerrone
> 
> A new license plate may help protect first responders from accidentally
> electrocuting themselves during accident rescues involving electric
> vehicles. 
> 
> The bill signed into law by Gov. Lincoln Chafee last month requires electric
> vehicle owners to have a special license plate so that first responders,
> emergency crews, and even two truck drivers know it is electric. 
> 
> Knowing if a vehicle is electric will help crews decide which instrument is
> appropriate to use to rescue people trapped inside.
> 
> “It is not very well-known that rescue workers can get electrocuted from
> using jaws of life on an electric vehicle, but when that information came to
> light I wanted us to be proactive about the issue,” said Senator Edward
> O'Neill, who sponsored the law. 
> 
> The law applies to electric and also hybrid vehicle owners. 
> [© WLNE-TV 2014]
> ...
> http://www.valleybreeze.com/2014-08-06/woonsocket-north-smithfield/state-creates-new-plates-electric-vehicles#.U-eA4mOTKHM
> State creates new plates for electric vehicles 
> 8/6/2014
> ...
> http://insideevs.com/rhode-island-issues-special-license-plates-electric-vehicles-protect-first-responders/
> ... create special license plates for electric vehicles? ...
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/28152-Are-EV-License-Plates-Dangerous-to-Occupants-of-a-Tesla
> Thread: Are EV License Plates Dangerous to Occupants of a Tesla
> 2014-03-01
> ...
> http://webserver.rilin.state.ri.us/BillText/BillText14/SenateText14/S2120A.pdf
> 2014-S 2120 SUBSTITUTE A ...
> 'a registration plate for motor vehicles powered in whole or in part by a
> storage battery.'
> ...
> http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/pressrelease/_layouts/RIL.PressRelease.ListStructure/Forms/DisplayForm.aspx?List=c8baae31-3c10-431c-8dcd-9dbbe21ce3e9&ID=10091
> 7/31/2014 Electric vehicle license plates will protect first responders,
> rescue service workers
> STATE HOUSE ... The special registration plate will apply to hybrids in
> addition to electric vehicles. Senators Marc A. Cote (D-Dist. 24,
> Woonsocket, North Smithfield), Paul W. Fogarty (D-Dist. 23, Glocester,
> Burrillville, North Smithfield), Nicholas D. Kettle (R-Dist. 21, Coventry,
> Foster, Scituate, West Greenwich) and James E. Doyle II (D-Dist. 8,
> Pawtucket) cosponsored the legislation.
> For more information, contact:
> Brenna McCabe, Publicist
> State House Room 20
> Providence, RI 02903
> (401) 222-2457
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For all EVLN posts use:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=evln&sort=date
> 
> http://www.electricautosport.com/2014/08/venturi-realise-600-kmh-electric-speed-record/
> Venturi to realize 600+ km/h electric speed record
> 
> http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2007153237
> Julie Wrigley’s sleek, chewing-gum red Tesla-S EV
> 
> http://www.ibtimes.com/tesla-norway-436-model-s-sedans-are-being-delivered-monthly-teslas-largest-overseas-market-1658946
> 436 Tesla-S Delivered Monthly In Norway> it’s Largest Overseas Market
> 
> http://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/life/2014/08/14/missoula-family-seeks-record-longest-bike-ride/14087677/
> Missoula family seeks record for longest Electric bicycle ride
> 
> http://news.investors.com/081214-712980-tesla-adds-station-in-france.htm
> Tesla adds 50th Euro Supercharger EVSE @Narbonne, France
> +
> EVLN: Tesla-S EV Power-trip e-Journeys from Mexico to Alaska
> 
> 
>