Re: [EVDL] Stella Era

[Haudy Kazemi via EV]

Even conventional solar PV cells on current EV designs can provide useful
range extension improvements. It doesn't need to cover 100% of demands to
be useful.

Range improvements are useful, as is neutralizing of vampire load losses,
or providing enough energy for limited cooling (some Priuses do this via
ventilation fans with their solar panels). Tesla's Raven refresh focused
on  increasing the efficiency of their drivetrain, not about increased
battery capacity. Tesla could reduce energy requirements further via heat
pump HVAC and vehicle roof/hood solar PV.

A Chevy Bolt has 5.19 m^2 of hood and roof area*. Using Maxeon cells with
22.6% conversion efficiency, that is 1.173 kW DC, before derating for
losses. Assuming 1/2 lost to fitment, soiling, orientation, and DC-DC
conversion, we still have >500 W. At 4.5 sun hours per day, we may collect
2.5 kWh. 2.5 kWh is 10 miles range on a small 250 Wh/mile EV. Covering
doors could further increase energy collection opportunities.

Is an additional 10 miles daily range useful or significant? It can be. If
the average driver goes 40 miles per day, 10 miles is 25% of their needs.
>From another perspective, Toyota's first Prius Plug-in models only had
about 10 miles all-electric range.

The owners it would benefit most are those who can park or use their
vehicles outside during the day. From a convenience perspective, apartment
dwellers with open parking lots, and without charging at their spaces,
would also benefit as being able to stretch their visits between chargers.
Camping would also benefit.

Such a system could provide 10 miles each day via onboard PV, with
additional miles from externally provided sources. 100% on 10 mile days.
25% on 40 mile days. 3% on 300 mile days.

Hyundai has a Sonata Hybrid model that uses this same concept:

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/22/the-solar-roof-on-hyundais-new-sonata-hybrid-adds-1300km-of-range-per-year/


*
https://www.artstation-vehicletemplates.com/images/WrapDimensionsSample.pdf



On Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 11:04 Matthew Pitts via EV  wrote:

> David,
>
> I agree that solar only vehicles don't make sense. But, solar assisted BEV
> "hybrids" that can charge from either the solar panels on the vehicle while
> in use or another source at night might be something to pursue.
>
> Matthew Pitts
>
> On August 22, 2019 11:56:00 AM EDT, EVDL Administrator via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> >On 22 Aug 2019 at 13:12, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> >
> >> The surface area for 3 kw of Sunpower Maxeon cells would be 8 feet by
> >23
> >>  feet.
> >
> >You're talking about a vehicle 15% longer and 31% wider than the
> >largest,
> >most bloated Chevrolet Silverado pickup.  That's a 37% larger
> >footprint.
> >Where are you going to park it?
> >
> >This allegedly "green" solar vehicle would take up 157% more road and
> >parking space than a VW Polo, and at least 900% more than a bicycle.
> >Where
> >on earth does that kind of personal vehicle make sense?
> >
> >What's more, it won't work.  Those 3kW PVs won't produce 3kW
> >continuously.
> >Vehicles travel and park in shade, on cloudy days, in winter, at night,
> >in
> >garages.  Do you want to be the one to tell Joe and Jane Suburbanite
> >that
> >they can't use their $50,000 garage to protect their $150,000 solar EV?
> >
> >At the current state of the art, I just can't see standalone solar
> >vehicles
> >as practical.  Maybe they'll be marginally practical someday IF we see
> >an
> >order of magnitude improvement in PV conversion efficiency, and IF that
> >
> >miraculous new invention is made from some cheap and plentiful material
> >in a
> >minimal-labor process requiring almost no energy input.  But I don't
> >see
> >that happening in my lifetime.
> >
> >Besides, I just don't get why the idea of a standalone solar vehicle is
> >so
> >compelling.  You have to sleep, so put your  PV on your house.  Right
> >now
> >that house is probably just sitting in the sun all day, converting the
> >sunlight to heat that you're pumping out with an air conditioner.  Why
> >not
> >capture that solar energy instead, save it with whatever method works
> >for
> >you, and pump it into your EV while you sleep?
> >
> >That kind of solar vehicle is simple, practical, efficient, and
> >relatively
> >affordable.  So why are we burning through person-hours developing
> >standalone solar vehicles that will never be affordable to anyone but
> >the
> >top 0.1% income range, and have zero chance of ever seeing commercial
> >production?
> >
> >You may have your own ideas, but I'll tell you what I think is one big
> >reason.  Standalone solar vehicles are sexy.  They snag the imagination
> >of
> >politicians and rich philanthropists with limited science education.
> >That
> >makes them a fabulous way to harvest grant money for both dodgy
> >"entrepreneurs" and legitimate but desperately underfunded nonprofits.
> >
> >David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> >EVDL Administrator
> >
> >= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

Re: [EVDL] Stella Era

[Gail Lucas via EV]

David, why must you think so logically?

On 8/22/2019 8:56 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 22 Aug 2019 at 13:12, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:


The surface area for 3 kw of Sunpower Maxeon cells would be 8 feet by 23
  feet.


You're talking about a vehicle 15% longer and 31% wider than the largest,
most bloated Chevrolet Silverado pickup.  That's a 37% larger footprint.
Where are you going to park it?

This allegedly "green" solar vehicle would take up 157% more road and
parking space than a VW Polo, and at least 900% more than a bicycle.  Where
on earth does that kind of personal vehicle make sense?

What's more, it won't work.  Those 3kW PVs won't produce 3kW continuously.
Vehicles travel and park in shade, on cloudy days, in winter, at night, in
garages.  Do you want to be the one to tell Joe and Jane Suburbanite that
they can't use their $50,000 garage to protect their $150,000 solar EV?

At the current state of the art, I just can't see standalone solar vehicles
as practical.  Maybe they'll be marginally practical someday IF we see an
order of magnitude improvement in PV conversion efficiency, and IF that
miraculous new invention is made from some cheap and plentiful material in a
minimal-labor process requiring almost no energy input.  But I don't see
that happening in my lifetime.

Besides, I just don't get why the idea of a standalone solar vehicle is so
compelling.  You have to sleep, so put your  PV on your house.  Right now
that house is probably just sitting in the sun all day, converting the
sunlight to heat that you're pumping out with an air conditioner.  Why not
capture that solar energy instead, save it with whatever method works for
you, and pump it into your EV while you sleep?

That kind of solar vehicle is simple, practical, efficient, and relatively
affordable.  So why are we burning through person-hours developing
standalone solar vehicles that will never be affordable to anyone but the
top 0.1% income range, and have zero chance of ever seeing commercial
production?

You may have your own ideas, but I'll tell you what I think is one big
reason.  Standalone solar vehicles are sexy.  They snag the imagination of
politicians and rich philanthropists with limited science education.  That
makes them a fabulous way to harvest grant money for both dodgy
"entrepreneurs" and legitimate but desperately underfunded nonprofits.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator


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Re: [EVDL] Stella Era

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

The 3kw system is an exercise for the Ultravan RV project. This years Solar 
Challenge features Stella Era which proports to have an 1,800 km range. The 
solar ev can follow the sun atonomously and be used as a charging station. What 
is not to like? It is a smallish car.  Not bigger than a Tesla. 4 passenger. 
1.5 kw panel. 15 kw battery. Very light and efficient. It should be mandatory 
that all personal passenger cars be made this way. It is over built for the way 
90% of cars are used on the planet. Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Stella Era

[Matthew Pitts via EV]

David,

I agree that solar only vehicles don't make sense. But, solar assisted BEV 
"hybrids" that can charge from either the solar panels on the vehicle while in 
use or another source at night might be something to pursue.

Matthew Pitts 

On August 22, 2019 11:56:00 AM EDT, EVDL Administrator via EV 
 wrote:
>On 22 Aug 2019 at 13:12, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
>
>> The surface area for 3 kw of Sunpower Maxeon cells would be 8 feet by
>23
>>  feet. 
>
>You're talking about a vehicle 15% longer and 31% wider than the
>largest, 
>most bloated Chevrolet Silverado pickup.  That's a 37% larger
>footprint.  
>Where are you going to park it?
>
>This allegedly "green" solar vehicle would take up 157% more road and 
>parking space than a VW Polo, and at least 900% more than a bicycle. 
>Where 
>on earth does that kind of personal vehicle make sense?
>
>What's more, it won't work.  Those 3kW PVs won't produce 3kW
>continuously.  
>Vehicles travel and park in shade, on cloudy days, in winter, at night,
>in 
>garages.  Do you want to be the one to tell Joe and Jane Suburbanite
>that 
>they can't use their $50,000 garage to protect their $150,000 solar EV?
>
>At the current state of the art, I just can't see standalone solar
>vehicles 
>as practical.  Maybe they'll be marginally practical someday IF we see
>an 
>order of magnitude improvement in PV conversion efficiency, and IF that
>
>miraculous new invention is made from some cheap and plentiful material
>in a 
>minimal-labor process requiring almost no energy input.  But I don't
>see 
>that happening in my lifetime.
>
>Besides, I just don't get why the idea of a standalone solar vehicle is
>so 
>compelling.  You have to sleep, so put your  PV on your house.  Right
>now 
>that house is probably just sitting in the sun all day, converting the 
>sunlight to heat that you're pumping out with an air conditioner.  Why
>not 
>capture that solar energy instead, save it with whatever method works
>for 
>you, and pump it into your EV while you sleep?
>
>That kind of solar vehicle is simple, practical, efficient, and
>relatively 
>affordable.  So why are we burning through person-hours developing 
>standalone solar vehicles that will never be affordable to anyone but
>the 
>top 0.1% income range, and have zero chance of ever seeing commercial 
>production? 
>
>You may have your own ideas, but I'll tell you what I think is one big 
>reason.  Standalone solar vehicles are sexy.  They snag the imagination
>of 
>politicians and rich philanthropists with limited science education. 
>That 
>makes them a fabulous way to harvest grant money for both dodgy 
>"entrepreneurs" and legitimate but desperately underfunded nonprofits.
>
>David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>EVDL Administrator
>
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
>Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
>reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
>email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
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-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: [EVDL] Stella Era

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 22 Aug 2019 at 13:12, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

> The surface area for 3 kw of Sunpower Maxeon cells would be 8 feet by 23
>  feet. 

You're talking about a vehicle 15% longer and 31% wider than the largest, 
most bloated Chevrolet Silverado pickup.  That's a 37% larger footprint.  
Where are you going to park it?

This allegedly "green" solar vehicle would take up 157% more road and 
parking space than a VW Polo, and at least 900% more than a bicycle.  Where 
on earth does that kind of personal vehicle make sense?

What's more, it won't work.  Those 3kW PVs won't produce 3kW continuously.  
Vehicles travel and park in shade, on cloudy days, in winter, at night, in 
garages.  Do you want to be the one to tell Joe and Jane Suburbanite that 
they can't use their $50,000 garage to protect their $150,000 solar EV?

At the current state of the art, I just can't see standalone solar vehicles 
as practical.  Maybe they'll be marginally practical someday IF we see an 
order of magnitude improvement in PV conversion efficiency, and IF that 
miraculous new invention is made from some cheap and plentiful material in a 
minimal-labor process requiring almost no energy input.  But I don't see 
that happening in my lifetime.

Besides, I just don't get why the idea of a standalone solar vehicle is so 
compelling.  You have to sleep, so put your  PV on your house.  Right now 
that house is probably just sitting in the sun all day, converting the 
sunlight to heat that you're pumping out with an air conditioner.  Why not 
capture that solar energy instead, save it with whatever method works for 
you, and pump it into your EV while you sleep?

That kind of solar vehicle is simple, practical, efficient, and relatively 
affordable.  So why are we burning through person-hours developing 
standalone solar vehicles that will never be affordable to anyone but the 
top 0.1% income range, and have zero chance of ever seeing commercial 
production? 

You may have your own ideas, but I'll tell you what I think is one big 
reason.  Standalone solar vehicles are sexy.  They snag the imagination of 
politicians and rich philanthropists with limited science education.  That 
makes them a fabulous way to harvest grant money for both dodgy 
"entrepreneurs" and legitimate but desperately underfunded nonprofits.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


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Re: [EVDL] Stella Era

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

 The surface area for 3 kw of Sunpower Maxeon cells would be 8 feet by 23 feet. 
The 850 cells would weigh 12 pounds. They would have to be encapsulated. You 
would have 500 volt 3kw system. The panel would dictate to some extent the 
size/weight of the vehicle. You could calculate the horse power with these 
figures. Lawrence Rhodes
MAXEON™ GEN III SOLAR CELLS you can Google the spec. Sheet. Check my 
calculations.  
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Re: [EVDL] Stella Era. I want one.

[Alan Arrison via EV]

3kw! Do you have any idea how many square feet you would need and how 
heavy just the panels would be?


On 8/21/2019 8:33 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

With advances in aerodynamics and electronics Stella Era is quite amazing.  I 
would really love to build something like this.  I suspect just enlarging the 
vehicle to a bit larger proportions would allow for a larger solar panel and 
thus more power.  However the challenge would be keeping weight down to make 
this happen. If you could get 3kw of solar on the roof and have a sub 1500 
pound weight 400 mile range will be possible with a pretty good cruising speed 
in full sunlight.  
https://www.3dprintingmedia.network/solar-team-eindhoven-3d-printing-stella-era-vehicle/
  Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Stella Era unveiled

[Bill Dennis via EV]

FullyCharged did a video riding in the prototype of the Lightyear One:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSbWwn_YCr8

Bill

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV
Sent: Friday, July 5, 2019 8:36 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Peri Hartman
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Stella Era unveiled

Truly impressive. It appears they focused mostly on aerodynamics, as the 
solar charge rate is 12km/h max. They claim a range of at least 400km in 
winter at highway speeds. Of course, you get the additional advantage 
that it is potentially charging while sitting in a parking lot, meaning 
that on normal days you probably don't have to plug in at all.

More info here:
https://lightyear.one/

And here
https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/25/lightyear-one-debuts-as-the-first-long-ran
ge-solar-powered-electric-car/

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Lawrence Rhodes" 
Sent: 04-Jul-19 8:30:30 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Stella Era unveiled

>The 2019 Stella solar car is unveiled. Lawrence Rhodes
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_c4fuLWq_A
>
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQAq3_M0LY0
>
>
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>
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Re: [EVDL] Stella Era unveiled

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Truly impressive. It appears they focused mostly on aerodynamics, as the 
solar charge rate is 12km/h max. They claim a range of at least 400km in 
winter at highway speeds. Of course, you get the additional advantage 
that it is potentially charging while sitting in a parking lot, meaning 
that on normal days you probably don't have to plug in at all.


More info here:
https://lightyear.one/

And here
https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/25/lightyear-one-debuts-as-the-first-long-range-solar-powered-electric-car/

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Lawrence Rhodes" 
Sent: 04-Jul-19 8:30:30 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Stella Era unveiled


The 2019 Stella solar car is unveiled. Lawrence Rhodes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_c4fuLWq_A


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQAq3_M0LY0


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