Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the question

[David Nelson via EV]

I'm not sure what true SOC the Leaf charges to and calls 100% but on my
2016 Kia Soul EV+ 100% on the display corresponds to 95% from the BMS. The
two displays agree at 25% SOC and below that the display SOC is lower than
actual. If the relationship is linear then 0% SOC on the display is about
1.7% SOC on the BMS. So, when I charge to full it really isn't full. I
still only charge to 80% which is about 76.3% in reality unless I need the
extra range.

It is entirely possible that Nissan also does something similar and maybe
increased the difference between actual SOC and displayed SOC.

FWIW, after 14 months and over 22,500 miles, mostly the I-5 corridor of
Oregon and Washington, the BMS reports the greatest cell degradation at 10%.

Does the Leaf BMS report a similar number?

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 2:21 PM, Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:

> Recalibration: that sounds like a breach of contract on Nissan's behalf.
> To be positive, overall I think Nissan has done a great job. But in this
> case, I'd fight back. When you by a leaf, you sign a contract and
> recalibrating the way the battery is measured sounds cleanly like a case of
> changing the terms of the contract. (For me, it's moot, I'm only one bar
> down.) Unless, of course, the contract states explicitly that the battery
> must be measured against the current algorithm.
>
> Peri
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Cor van de Water via EV" 
> To: "Willie2" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <
> ev@lists.evdl.org>
> Sent: 04-Oct-16 2:06:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the
> question
>
> Willie,
>> Not dynamically, just a one-time upgrade (dealer visit required).
>> Many Leaf owners who lost the 4th bar and thought they qualified for the
>> warranty battery replacement were miffed to see the dealer really
>> enforcing the Nissan requirement that the warranty will only be honored
>> after the mandatory re-calibration of the 12 battery bar gauge. Most
>> owners found out that after re-calibration their earlier 4 bar loser no
>> longer showed 4 bars lost so they no longer qualified unless they would
>> again see 4 bars lost on the re-calibrated gauge. The first bar does not
>> disappear until 15% is lost and each subsequent bar should stand for
>> 6.25% so in theory you need a battery degraded to just over 66% of
>> nominal capacity to qualify if the gauge will indeed drop to 4 bars
>> right at that point. But reports I have seen of Ah capacity degradation
>> suggest that the loss of the 4th bar happens later.
>> I found it significant that Leafs can lose more than 40% capacity in
>> about 50k mi while some Tesla drops only 6% in 200k mi.
>>
>> Of course this is only one sample with a specific usage pattern,
>> but I highly doubt an expansion of the samples will give different
>> results, we'll see.
>>
>> Cor van de Water
>> Chief Scientist
>> Proxim Wireless
>>
>> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
>> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>>
>> http://www.proxim.com
>>
>> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
>> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
>> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
>> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
>> this message is prohibited.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Willie2 via EV
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 11:18 AM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the
>> question
>>
>> On 10/04/2016 12:29 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
>>
>>>  on the battery as the Leaf *does* degrade its battery by 40% to approx
>>>  60% capacity in approx 50k mi in warmer climates (that is the point
>>>  where Nissan gives a warranty battery replacement, even though they
>>>  promised 70% but re-calibated the battery to lose the 4th bar around
>>>
>> 60%
>>
>>>  capacity and triggering the warranty if it occurs within the warranty
>>>  limits for time and mileage.)
>>>
>> When I first got my Leaf, I was astonished at how crappy the
>> instrumentation is/was.  Coming from the conversion world, I expected to
>>
>> see, or find out, how much energy went into the battery and how much
>> came out.  Instead, I had these twelve "bars". Unacceptable
>> granularity.  Later, I found the "bars" were not even of equal value.
>> After some pondering, I came to the conclusion that Nissan did things in
>>
>> that way to hide information from their customers.  What other
>> explanation could there be?
>>
>> Even more astonishing is how Leaf owners accept the situation and speak
>> of almost meaningless "bars".  I'm not surprised to learn that Nissan
>> dynamically recalibrates "bars" to manage their warranty threshold.
>>
>> 

Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the question

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Recalibration: that sounds like a breach of contract on Nissan's behalf. 
To be positive, overall I think Nissan has done a great job. But in this 
case, I'd fight back. When you by a leaf, you sign a contract and 
recalibrating the way the battery is measured sounds cleanly like a case 
of changing the terms of the contract. (For me, it's moot, I'm only one 
bar down.) Unless, of course, the contract states explicitly that the 
battery must be measured against the current algorithm.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Cor van de Water via EV" 
To: "Willie2" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 


Sent: 04-Oct-16 2:06:10 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the 
question



Willie,
Not dynamically, just a one-time upgrade (dealer visit required).
Many Leaf owners who lost the 4th bar and thought they qualified for 
the

warranty battery replacement were miffed to see the dealer really
enforcing the Nissan requirement that the warranty will only be honored
after the mandatory re-calibration of the 12 battery bar gauge. Most
owners found out that after re-calibration their earlier 4 bar loser no
longer showed 4 bars lost so they no longer qualified unless they would
again see 4 bars lost on the re-calibrated gauge. The first bar does 
not

disappear until 15% is lost and each subsequent bar should stand for
6.25% so in theory you need a battery degraded to just over 66% of
nominal capacity to qualify if the gauge will indeed drop to 4 bars
right at that point. But reports I have seen of Ah capacity degradation
suggest that the loss of the 4th bar happens later.
I found it significant that Leafs can lose more than 40% capacity in
about 50k mi while some Tesla drops only 6% in 200k mi.

Of course this is only one sample with a specific usage pattern,
but I highly doubt an expansion of the samples will give different
results, we'll see.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential 
and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you 
received

this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Willie2 via EV
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 11:18 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the
question

On 10/04/2016 12:29 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
 on the battery as the Leaf *does* degrade its battery by 40% to 
approx

 60% capacity in approx 50k mi in warmer climates (that is the point
 where Nissan gives a warranty battery replacement, even though they
 promised 70% but re-calibated the battery to lose the 4th bar around

60%

 capacity and triggering the warranty if it occurs within the warranty
 limits for time and mileage.)

When I first got my Leaf, I was astonished at how crappy the
instrumentation is/was.  Coming from the conversion world, I expected 
to


see, or find out, how much energy went into the battery and how much
came out.  Instead, I had these twelve "bars". Unacceptable
granularity.  Later, I found the "bars" were not even of equal value.
After some pondering, I came to the conclusion that Nissan did things 
in


that way to hide information from their customers.  What other
explanation could there be?

Even more astonishing is how Leaf owners accept the situation and speak
of almost meaningless "bars".  I'm not surprised to learn that Nissan
dynamically recalibrates "bars" to manage their warranty threshold.

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Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the question

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Willie,
Not dynamically, just a one-time upgrade (dealer visit required).
Many Leaf owners who lost the 4th bar and thought they qualified for the
warranty battery replacement were miffed to see the dealer really
enforcing the Nissan requirement that the warranty will only be honored
after the mandatory re-calibration of the 12 battery bar gauge. Most
owners found out that after re-calibration their earlier 4 bar loser no
longer showed 4 bars lost so they no longer qualified unless they would
again see 4 bars lost on the re-calibrated gauge. The first bar does not
disappear until 15% is lost and each subsequent bar should stand for
6.25% so in theory you need a battery degraded to just over 66% of
nominal capacity to qualify if the gauge will indeed drop to 4 bars
right at that point. But reports I have seen of Ah capacity degradation
suggest that the loss of the 4th bar happens later.
I found it significant that Leafs can lose more than 40% capacity in
about 50k mi while some Tesla drops only 6% in 200k mi.

Of course this is only one sample with a specific usage pattern,
but I highly doubt an expansion of the samples will give different
results, we'll see.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Willie2 via EV
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 11:18 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the
question

On 10/04/2016 12:29 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
> on the battery as the Leaf *does* degrade its battery by 40% to approx
> 60% capacity in approx 50k mi in warmer climates (that is the point
> where Nissan gives a warranty battery replacement, even though they
> promised 70% but re-calibated the battery to lose the 4th bar around
60%
> capacity and triggering the warranty if it occurs within the warranty
> limits for time and mileage.)
When I first got my Leaf, I was astonished at how crappy the 
instrumentation is/was.  Coming from the conversion world, I expected to

see, or find out, how much energy went into the battery and how much 
came out.  Instead, I had these twelve "bars". Unacceptable 
granularity.  Later, I found the "bars" were not even of equal value.  
After some pondering, I came to the conclusion that Nissan did things in

that way to hide information from their customers.  What other 
explanation could there be?

Even more astonishing is how Leaf owners accept the situation and speak 
of almost meaningless "bars".  I'm not surprised to learn that Nissan 
dynamically recalibrates "bars" to manage their warranty threshold.

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Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the question

[Cruisin via EV]

That's what happens when you use LifP04 cells. You never know when a cell
will go south for no reason. I have about 75 customers including my own
conversions using NEW Volt cells and have NEVER had a bad cell in over 5
years. Who else can say that. Cannot vouch for those who buy used batteries
from a junkie yard. I am now using the NEW Bosch batteries for the BMW i3,
i6 and Mercedes, cells by Samsung. Time will tell on those as well. American
car manufacturers for the most part don't use the Chinese "junk".

--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/To-fully-charge-or-not-to-fully-charge-that-is-the-question-tp4683954p4683957.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the question

[David Rees via EV]

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Mark Hanson via EV  wrote:
> If that's the case I wonder why Nissan dropped the less than 100% requirement 
> from the newer 2014 and up vehicles?   I guess I don't understand why fully 
> charging and equalizing the cells would hurt battery life.  Maybe just a hang 
> on from the lead days :-).

Keep in mind that even though the removed the 80% charge option in the
USA in 2014, I believe that option still remains in European and
Japanese market vehicles. What isn't known, is if the chemistry in all
markets is the same or not.

Also keep in mind that Nissan still recommends against leaving the car
sit fully charged for long periods of time.

All lithium batteries will lose capacity faster when subjected to
higher temperatures or higher states of charge. So if you want to
maximize battery life, you want to keep those two variables lower.

It does seem that at least with the '11-13 LEAFs (it's too soon to
tell with the '14+ LEAFs), temperature makes a bigger difference than
SOC. Temperature related capacity loss should roughly follow Arrhenius
Equation which states that for every 10C rise in temperature, the rate
of chemical reactions (and thus capacity loss) will double.

Dave
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Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the question

[Willie2 via EV]

On 10/04/2016 12:29 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

on the battery as the Leaf *does* degrade its battery by 40% to approx
60% capacity in approx 50k mi in warmer climates (that is the point
where Nissan gives a warranty battery replacement, even though they
promised 70% but re-calibated the battery to lose the 4th bar around 60%
capacity and triggering the warranty if it occurs within the warranty
limits for time and mileage.)
When I first got my Leaf, I was astonished at how crappy the 
instrumentation is/was.  Coming from the conversion world, I expected to 
see, or find out, how much energy went into the battery and how much 
came out.  Instead, I had these twelve "bars". Unacceptable 
granularity.  Later, I found the "bars" were not even of equal value.  
After some pondering, I came to the conclusion that Nissan did things in 
that way to hide information from their customers.  What other 
explanation could there be?


Even more astonishing is how Leaf owners accept the situation and speak 
of almost meaningless "bars".  I'm not surprised to learn that Nissan 
dynamically recalibrates "bars" to manage their warranty threshold.


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Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the question

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Simple,
The EPA calculated the Leaf range based on the average of charging to
80% and 100%. Totally crazy, because anybody needing max range would
charge to 100% but that was why Nissan removed the 80% option, even
though customers wanted to keep it. I always charge to 80% to be gentle
on the battery as the Leaf *does* degrade its battery by 40% to approx
60% capacity in approx 50k mi in warmer climates (that is the point
where Nissan gives a warranty battery replacement, even though they
promised 70% but re-calibated the battery to lose the 4th bar around 60%
capacity and triggering the warranty if it occurs within the warranty
limits for time and mileage.)
Last week I saw a report from Tesloop (shuttle service LA <==> Las Vegas
in Model S) who always (daily) charge to 100% and saw 6% degradation
over 200k miles of service in their first car, so quite a difference!

I have a 2011 and can charge to 80% except for the rare occasion that I
need the full range. I still see capacity loss by reading the measured
Ah battery capacity from the BMS.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Corbin Dunn via
EV
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 10:15 AM
To: Mark Hanson
Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the
question

Yeah, I don't know why they would change their recommendation; people
might have been complaining about the limited range when only charging
to 80-90%. 

corbin

> On Oct 4, 2016, at 10:12 AM, Mark Hanson  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Corbin
> If that's the case I wonder why Nissan dropped the less than 100%
requirement from the newer 2014 and up vehicles?   I guess I don't
understand why fully charging and equalizing the cells would hurt
battery life.  Maybe just a hang on from the lead days :-). 
> Mark
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Corbin Dunn
 wrote:
>> 
>> Lithium cells (of all chemistries) seem to have the fastest
degradation when they are charged to 100% on a regular basis. The
general consensus is to keep it in the 20-90% range. This is also what
Tesla recommends for the Model S / X. 
>> 
>> I've also been charging my LiFEPo4 cells in my VW bug to 100% on a
regular (near daily) basis. I've had a few cells prematurely die; like
loosing 30-40% capacity (200Ah thunder skys). The others seem "okay",
but some are dipping lower in voltage under load, and probably have lost
some capacity; I've been charging them up a bit with a single cell
charger, as balancing at the top seems too rough on the cells. I've also
got about the same mileage: 46,000.
>> 
>> corbin
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2016, at 7:19 AM, Mark Hanson via EV 
wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi folks 
>>> In my 2013 leaf manual it says to not fully charge each cycle and
only to 80 percent is preferred but in 2014 it became ok to fully
charge.  The chemistry is the same NMC nickel manganese cobalt cathode
with a lithium electrolyte and a graphite anode.  So did Nissan get it
wrong?  Is it ok to plug it in on short 15 mile trips each time?  I do
that on my Ghia that has 45k miles on LiFePo4 batteries and still ok
equalize on each charge with balancers like the Leaf does. 
>>> Best regards
>>> Mark Hanson 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> ___
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>> 

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Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the question

[Mark Hanson via EV]

Thanks Corbin
If that's the case I wonder why Nissan dropped the less than 100% requirement 
from the newer 2014 and up vehicles?   I guess I don't understand why fully 
charging and equalizing the cells would hurt battery life.  Maybe just a hang 
on from the lead days :-). 
Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Corbin Dunn  wrote:
> 
> Lithium cells (of all chemistries) seem to have the fastest degradation when 
> they are charged to 100% on a regular basis. The general consensus is to keep 
> it in the 20-90% range. This is also what Tesla recommends for the Model S / 
> X. 
> 
> I’ve also been charging my LiFEPo4 cells in my VW bug to 100% on a regular 
> (near daily) basis. I’ve had a few cells prematurely die; like loosing 30-40% 
> capacity (200Ah thunder skys). The others seem “okay”, but some are dipping 
> lower in voltage under load, and probably have lost some capacity; I’ve been 
> charging them up a bit with a single cell charger, as balancing at the top 
> seems too rough on the cells. I’ve also got about the same mileage: 46,000.
> 
> corbin
> 
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2016, at 7:19 AM, Mark Hanson via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi folks 
>> In my 2013 leaf manual it says to not fully charge each cycle and only to 80 
>> percent is preferred but in 2014 it became ok to fully charge.  The 
>> chemistry is the same NMC nickel manganese cobalt cathode with a lithium 
>> electrolyte and a graphite anode.  So did Nissan get it wrong?  Is it ok to 
>> plug it in on short 15 mile trips each time?  I do that on my Ghia that has 
>> 45k miles on LiFePo4 batteries and still ok equalize on each charge with 
>> balancers like the Leaf does. 
>> Best regards
>> Mark Hanson 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
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> 
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Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the question

[Corbin Dunn via EV]

Yeah, I don’t know why they would change their recommendation; people might 
have been complaining about the limited range when only charging to 80-90%. 

corbin

> On Oct 4, 2016, at 10:12 AM, Mark Hanson  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Corbin
> If that's the case I wonder why Nissan dropped the less than 100% requirement 
> from the newer 2014 and up vehicles?   I guess I don't understand why fully 
> charging and equalizing the cells would hurt battery life.  Maybe just a hang 
> on from the lead days :-). 
> Mark
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Corbin Dunn  wrote:
>> 
>> Lithium cells (of all chemistries) seem to have the fastest degradation when 
>> they are charged to 100% on a regular basis. The general consensus is to 
>> keep it in the 20-90% range. This is also what Tesla recommends for the 
>> Model S / X. 
>> 
>> I’ve also been charging my LiFEPo4 cells in my VW bug to 100% on a regular 
>> (near daily) basis. I’ve had a few cells prematurely die; like loosing 
>> 30-40% capacity (200Ah thunder skys). The others seem “okay”, but some are 
>> dipping lower in voltage under load, and probably have lost some capacity; 
>> I’ve been charging them up a bit with a single cell charger, as balancing at 
>> the top seems too rough on the cells. I’ve also got about the same mileage: 
>> 46,000.
>> 
>> corbin
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2016, at 7:19 AM, Mark Hanson via EV  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi folks 
>>> In my 2013 leaf manual it says to not fully charge each cycle and only to 
>>> 80 percent is preferred but in 2014 it became ok to fully charge.  The 
>>> chemistry is the same NMC nickel manganese cobalt cathode with a lithium 
>>> electrolyte and a graphite anode.  So did Nissan get it wrong?  Is it ok to 
>>> plug it in on short 15 mile trips each time?  I do that on my Ghia that has 
>>> 45k miles on LiFePo4 batteries and still ok equalize on each charge with 
>>> balancers like the Leaf does. 
>>> Best regards
>>> Mark Hanson 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
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>> 

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Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the question

[Jamie K via EV]

Speculation, FWIW:

If the 2014 LEAF really became OK to fully charge to 100%, that may have 
been based on performance monitoring of the 2013 batteries not showing 
degradation when charged to 100%. And that would imply that it may also 
be OK to charge the 2013 to 100% regularly.


Or it may be because the EPA was rating the range based on the 80% 
recommendation, splitting the difference between 80% ande 100% range, 
and Nissan wanted a better number on the spec sheet.


Or both. Or something else.

What we do:

What we do with ours is charge to 80% most of the time. If needed 
though, we don't hesitate to charge to 100%. We time it so that it 
finishes the charge right before we drive so it doesn't sit at 100% 
longer than necessary, to reduce exposure to any potential high charge 
degradation.


It may be a good idea to charge to 100% until the lights go out every 
now and then, so it can top balance the pack.


Also keep in mind that the entire pack capacity isn't actually used, so 
100% is not the entire 24kWh. IIRC it uses about 21 kWh, which would be 
just under 90% when charged to "100%".


Cheers,
 -Jamie


On 10/4/16 8:19 AM, Mark Hanson via EV wrote:

Hi folks
In my 2013 leaf manual it says to not fully charge each cycle and only to 80 
percent is preferred but in 2014 it became ok to fully charge.  The chemistry 
is the same NMC nickel manganese cobalt cathode with a lithium electrolyte and 
a graphite anode.  So did Nissan get it wrong?  Is it ok to plug it in on short 
15 mile trips each time?  I do that on my Ghia that has 45k miles on LiFePo4 
batteries and still ok equalize on each charge with balancers like the Leaf 
does.
Best regards
Mark Hanson

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the question

[tomw via EV]

Are you sure the 2013 cells were the same chemistry? I thought they were the
older spinel type, not NMC.
Anyway, worst case for decreasing cell life is high voltage and high
temperature as shown by Dahn and other researchers, so most manufacturers
recommend not charging to 100% SoC regularly. I have > 50k on my LiFePO4
cells with no noticeable capacity loss, but I usually only add as much
charge as I will need for the next couple days, only charging to 100% a few
times per month for longer trips. Something not usually mentioned is
increase in internal resistance.  I think this is creeping up in my cells,
as temperature rise seems a bit more than it used to be, but I have not
quantified it. This is a by product of capacity loss due to deposition on
the electrode SEI layer as result of electrolyte degradation.  If ir becomes
too large, the resultant added cell heating could push them up to higher
temperatures in hot summer months accelerating degradation, further
increasing ir, resulting in more degradation...hasn't been a problem so far,
cells usually are below 98F on hot summer days. LiFePO4 has less problem
with electrolyte degradation compared to other higher specific energy
chemistries such as NMC due to the lower cell voltage.

I usually don't plug in my laptop either. Only when it gets down to around
40%SoC or so, for the same reason. Killed the battery in my older one within
3 years by leaving it plugged in all the time. My work laptop which I only
occasionally plug in still has almost full battery capacity after 5 years.

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Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the question

[Corbin Dunn via EV]

Lithium cells (of all chemistries) seem to have the fastest degradation when 
they are charged to 100% on a regular basis. The general consensus is to keep 
it in the 20-90% range. This is also what Tesla recommends for the Model S / X. 

I’ve also been charging my LiFEPo4 cells in my VW bug to 100% on a regular 
(near daily) basis. I’ve had a few cells prematurely die; like loosing 30-40% 
capacity (200Ah thunder skys). The others seem “okay”, but some are dipping 
lower in voltage under load, and probably have lost some capacity; I’ve been 
charging them up a bit with a single cell charger, as balancing at the top 
seems too rough on the cells. I’ve also got about the same mileage: 46,000.

corbin


> On Oct 4, 2016, at 7:19 AM, Mark Hanson via EV  wrote:
> 
> Hi folks 
> In my 2013 leaf manual it says to not fully charge each cycle and only to 80 
> percent is preferred but in 2014 it became ok to fully charge.  The chemistry 
> is the same NMC nickel manganese cobalt cathode with a lithium electrolyte 
> and a graphite anode.  So did Nissan get it wrong?  Is it ok to plug it in on 
> short 15 mile trips each time?  I do that on my Ghia that has 45k miles on 
> LiFePo4 batteries and still ok equalize on each charge with balancers like 
> the Leaf does. 
> Best regards
> Mark Hanson 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
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> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> 

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