Re: [EVDL] Towing with a Bolt

2017-12-01 Thread Haudy Kazemi via EV
A more complex answer is manufacturers promote or don't promote towing 
abilities as part of market segmentation. In some parts of the world, a vehicle 
model is tow rated but in other parts the same vehicle isn't rated. Depending 
on local factors this may either encourage or even force people to buy tow 
rated vehicles.

Tesla built the Model X on the same platform as the Model S but only offers 
factory towing option (and towing related software) for X. The Model 3 is su

Toyota finally added a tow rating to Prius, although people have been towing 
light trailers and teardrop campers (<1500 lbs) with them for years (see Prius 
Trailers group). In terms of weight ratios, a 1500 lb trailer compares 
favorably to a 3300 lb Leaf, 4700 lb Model S, 5200 lb Model X, or 3000 lb Prius.

An experienced driver with a balanced trailer and well secured load, who keeps 
speeds and following distances that are in proportion to what is being hauled 
will be fine. These drivers know they need to leave extra space to start and 
stop. These drivers also account for weather and road and terrain conditions. 
Expectations and planning makes a difference. Much less capable vehicles towed 
much bigger loads in decades gone past.

Inexperienced drivers probably should not be towing. Otherwise experienced 
drivers who haven't towed before should start out with lighter loads and 
conditions to build experience with the changes in driving dynamics that towing 
causes.



On December 1, 2017 7:56:18 AM CST, paul dove via EV  wrote:
>Easy answer is. some vehicles are designed to be able to tow and
>some are not. It doesn’t matter what they use to propel the vehicle a
>lot of trains are electric and they tow a lot of weight.
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 6:59 PM, Bob Bath via EV 
>wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All, 
>>   My bro asked me a question I never worried about with
>Civicwithacord, nor my LEAF: Why is it so bad to toe with an
>EV?/Warranty voiding?
>> 
>> My first answer was of course, range drop with rolling resistance and
>added weight requiring more amps. 
>> My second answer was guessing that more amps mean more heat as well
>as worse voltage sag on the traction pack. But am I missing anything
>else?
>> 
>> Appreciatively, 
>> 
>> Bob Bath, from his iPod, so any misspellings are from autocorrect or
>fat fingers on a small device, not cluelessness..
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
>
>___
>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



Re: [EVDL] Towing with a Bolt

2017-12-01 Thread paul dove via EV
Easy answer is. some vehicles are designed to be able to tow and some are 
not. It doesn’t matter what they use to propel the vehicle a lot of trains are 
electric and they tow a lot of weight.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 30, 2017, at 6:59 PM, Bob Bath via EV  wrote:
> 
> Hi All, 
>   My bro asked me a question I never worried about with Civicwithacord, nor 
> my LEAF: Why is it so bad to toe with an EV?/Warranty voiding?
> 
> My first answer was of course, range drop with rolling resistance and added 
> weight requiring more amps. 
> My second answer was guessing that more amps mean more heat as well as worse 
> voltage sag on the traction pack. But am I missing anything else?
> 
> Appreciatively, 
> 
> Bob Bath, from his iPod, so any misspellings are from autocorrect or fat 
> fingers on a small device, not cluelessness..
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



Re: [EVDL] Towing with a Bolt

2017-12-01 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV
I tow my 15' old 40 HP boat with my prius.
Also tow my Communications trailer with the prius.
These are area tows... I'd be stupid to try to go 100 miles at 70 MPH doing
this.
But stupid is out there it’s a lose-lose proposition to try to make one
rule-fits-all
bob

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de Water
via EV
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 1:36 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Cor van de Water
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Towing with a Bolt

It usually comes down to three things-Warranty, design load and pilot
expectations.If the manufacturer does not want to take responsibility for
the unheard things that some people manage to do with a hitch, they will
simply say that a hitch voids warranty.The design load of the frame will
limit how much extra load the car can take before things start to deform and
since an EV is designed to be light, there may not be too much margin. Note
that it is not about the static load on the hitch ball, which is supposed to
be pretty low for a well loaded trailer, but the dynamic loads, especially
for a non braking trailer can be pretty high and tear on the frame.Then
there is the issue of expectation. Drivers might expect to be driving their
usual 70 to 80 mph and either put themselves in danger by exceeding the
capabilities of the car or be dismayed by the limitations, not leading to a
positive experience and if the towing feature is not a selling item then it
won't be valued as such.


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
 Original message From: Bob Bath via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
Date: 12/1/17  2:59 AM  (GMT+02:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
<ev@lists.evdl.org> Cc: Bob Bath <civicwithac...@yahoo.com> Subject: [EVDL]
Towing with a Bolt Hi All,
   My bro asked me a question I never worried about with Civicwithacord, nor
my LEAF: Why is it so bad to toe with an EV?/Warranty voiding?

My first answer was of course, range drop with rolling resistance and added
weight requiring more amps.
My second answer was guessing that more amps mean more heat as well as worse
voltage sag on the traction pack. But am I missing anything else?

Appreciatively,

Bob Bath, from his iPod, so any misspellings are from autocorrect or fat
fingers on a small device, not cluelessness..
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20171130/e1bbcc3f/attachment.html>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20171201/41d66114/attachment.html>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



Re: [EVDL] Towing with a Bolt

2017-12-01 Thread Glenn Van Vlemen via EV
An ICE vehicle uses more fuel when towing assuming all the other safety
concerns are covered. Can be 50% more depending on circumstances.
This is a result of the motor having to work harder to tow the load. It can
also result in ICE overheating due to the sustained load.

I would think this is the issue for the EV's. Additional load will be
equivalent to running at hi amps all the time and the batteries and
infrastructure cannot sustain it without an increased risk.

Good luck.

On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Bob Bath via EV  wrote:

> Hi All,
>My bro asked me a question I never worried about with Civicwithacord,
> nor my LEAF: Why is it so bad to toe with an EV?/Warranty voiding?
>
> My first answer was of course, range drop with rolling resistance and
> added weight requiring more amps.
> My second answer was guessing that more amps mean more heat as well as
> worse voltage sag on the traction pack. But am I missing anything else?
>
> Appreciatively,
>
> Bob Bath, from his iPod, so any misspellings are from autocorrect or fat
> fingers on a small device, not cluelessness..
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:  attachments/20171130/e1bbcc3f/attachment.html>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
>
>


-- 
Regards
*Glenn Van Vlemen*
*Principal*
Exoro Pty Ltd
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



Re: [EVDL] Towing with a Bolt

2017-11-30 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
It usually comes down to three things-Warranty, design load and pilot 
expectations.If the manufacturer does not want to take responsibility for the 
unheard things that some people manage to do with a hitch, they will simply say 
that a hitch voids warranty.The design load of the frame will limit how much 
extra load the car can take before things start to deform and since an EV is 
designed to be light, there may not be too much margin. Note that it is not 
about the static load on the hitch ball, which is supposed to be pretty low for 
a well loaded trailer, but the dynamic loads, especially for a non braking 
trailer can be pretty high and tear on the frame.Then there is the issue of 
expectation. Drivers might expect to be driving their usual 70 to 80 mph and 
either put themselves in danger by exceeding the capabilities of the car or be 
dismayed by the limitations, not leading to a positive experience and if the 
towing feature is not a selling item then it won't be valued as such.


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
 Original message From: Bob Bath via EV  
Date: 12/1/17  2:59 AM  (GMT+02:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
 Cc: Bob Bath  Subject: [EVDL] 
Towing with a Bolt 
Hi All, 
   My bro asked me a question I never worried about with Civicwithacord, nor my 
LEAF: Why is it so bad to toe with an EV?/Warranty voiding?

My first answer was of course, range drop with rolling resistance and added 
weight requiring more amps. 
My second answer was guessing that more amps mean more heat as well as worse 
voltage sag on the traction pack. But am I missing anything else?

Appreciatively, 

Bob Bath, from his iPod, so any misspellings are from autocorrect or fat 
fingers on a small device, not cluelessness..
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



Re: [EVDL] Towing with a Bolt

2017-11-30 Thread brucedp5 via EV
[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-Heat-pump-vs-resistive-Heater-with-radiators-tp4688727p4688739.html
Towing with a Bolt
]

The question posted asks about towing with an EV in general. I feel others
have answered that.

But the subject/topic of the post specifically asks towing with a Bolt EV.

I would first see what others have done, by checking with what the Bolt
drivers have posted
https://www.google.com/search?q=chevy+bolt+towing

And then, because the Bolt's underpinnings are based on the Chevy Sonic ice,
you could also look to what the Sonic drivers have posted
https://www.google.com/search?q=chevy+sonic+towing

Which btw also gives:

https://www.etrailer.com/vm/Chevrolet/Sonic/hitch
Chevrolet Sonic Trailer Hitch
For your 2015 Chevy Sonic the Draw Tite Hitch part # 24878 has been
confirmed as a fit and will work well for light towing as long as you stay
under the hitch's towing capacity of 200 lbs tongue weight and 2,000 lbs
total trailer weight and the towing capacities for the vehicle listed in the
owners manual.


That last bit is what you should have already read (the Bolt manual - rtfm)
to know the Bolt EV's design limitations.




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

--
Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



Re: [EVDL] Towing with a Bolt

2017-11-30 Thread David Chapman via EV
I would worry about the trailer exceeding the limit of the brakes more than 
anything. If you are talking about a little 4x3 Harbor freight utility trailer 
for flat ground around town use thats one thing but anything bigger might be 
unsafe especially in less than optimal conditions

On Thursday, November 30, 2017 6:42 PM, Jorg Brown via EV 
 wrote:
 

 It's bad to tow with a vehicle that can't handle the weight.  And because
of the battery weight, the car is already quite heavy.

In addition to excess wear on the tires, you may be depressing your shock
absorbers close to their limit, giving you a bumpy ride at best and busted
shocks at worst.

There's no issue with volts or amps; the primary thing that will happen as
far as electricity is concerned is that the car won't go as far on a full
charge.

-- Jorg

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 4:59 PM, Bob Bath via EV  wrote:

> Hi All,
>    My bro asked me a question I never worried about with Civicwithacord,
> nor my LEAF: Why is it so bad to toe with an EV?/Warranty voiding?
>
> My first answer was of course, range drop with rolling resistance and
> added weight requiring more amps.
> My second answer was guessing that more amps mean more heat as well as
> worse voltage sag on the traction pack. But am I missing anything else?
>
> Appreciatively,
>
> Bob Bath, from his iPod, so any misspellings are from autocorrect or fat
> fingers on a small device, not cluelessness..
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:  attachments/20171130/e1bbcc3f/attachment.html>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



   
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



Re: [EVDL] Towing with a Bolt

2017-11-30 Thread Jorg Brown via EV
It's bad to tow with a vehicle that can't handle the weight.  And because
of the battery weight, the car is already quite heavy.

In addition to excess wear on the tires, you may be depressing your shock
absorbers close to their limit, giving you a bumpy ride at best and busted
shocks at worst.

There's no issue with volts or amps; the primary thing that will happen as
far as electricity is concerned is that the car won't go as far on a full
charge.

-- Jorg

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 4:59 PM, Bob Bath via EV  wrote:

> Hi All,
>My bro asked me a question I never worried about with Civicwithacord,
> nor my LEAF: Why is it so bad to toe with an EV?/Warranty voiding?
>
> My first answer was of course, range drop with rolling resistance and
> added weight requiring more amps.
> My second answer was guessing that more amps mean more heat as well as
> worse voltage sag on the traction pack. But am I missing anything else?
>
> Appreciatively,
>
> Bob Bath, from his iPod, so any misspellings are from autocorrect or fat
> fingers on a small device, not cluelessness..
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:  attachments/20171130/e1bbcc3f/attachment.html>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)