Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it

2015-04-24 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV
Sure, that question has merit. I only answered his first question. But the emissions I was particularly referring to were combustion emissions at the tailpipe...not CO2 emissions, which certainly are of relevance. But when the ZEV standards were adopted, the driver was nonattainment criteria

Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it

2015-04-24 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
: Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it Sure, that question has merit. I only answered his first question. But the emissions I was particularly referring to were combustion emissions at the tailpipe...not CO2 emissions, which certainly are of relevance. But when the ZEV standards were

Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it

2015-04-24 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV
... it seems to me that converting the methane to H2 has to have the same emissions at the plant that you would get at the tailpipe when burning the methane in an ICE. Efficiency also includes economics of hardware. Yes, We will have H2 (mostly from excess peak solar and wind dumping), but it

Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it

2015-04-24 Thread Russ Sciville via EV
On Fri, 24/4/15, Mike Nickerson via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Subject: Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it To: Mark Abramowitz ma...@enviropolicy.com, Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Date: Friday, 24 April, 2015, 13:35 let me ask

Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it

2015-04-24 Thread Mike Nickerson via EV
let me ask the question more directly: Efficiency questions aside, it seems to me that converting the methane to H2 has to have the same emissions at the plant that you would get at the tailpipe when burning the methane in an ICE. The only thing that changes is the location of the emissions.

Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it

2015-04-24 Thread Willie2 via EV
Politics is SO frustrating. Big money steering things where they ought not to go. Fool Cells. Corn ethanol. We have a similar problem in Texas right now trying to get legislation passed to allow in-state sales of Teslas. The Tesla lobbying efforts seem very poorly organized while the car

Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it

2015-04-24 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On Apr 24, 2015, at 6:03 AM, Russ Sciville via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Who would wish to drive around with a hydrogen tank in the back pressurised to 10,000 psi? There's lots of insanity associated with FCVs, but fuel safety isn't part of it. Hydrogen is much safer than gasoline in that

Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it

2015-04-24 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV
See below for interspersed responses. On Apr 24, 2015, at 5:35 AM, Mike Nickerson m...@nickersonranch.com wrote: let me ask the question more directly: Efficiency questions aside, it seems to me that converting the methane to H2 has to have the same emissions at the plant that you would

Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it

2015-04-24 Thread Peri Hartman via EV
. Peri -- Original Message -- From: Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Russ Sciville rustyb...@yahoo.co.uk; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 24-Apr-15 8:16:25 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it On Apr 24, 2015, at 6:03 AM, Russ Sciville

Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it

2015-04-23 Thread Peri Hartman via EV
Evidently, the readers of Green Car Reports aren't fooled, judging by the comments. Peri -- Original Message -- From: Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 23-Apr-15 3:19:05 PM Subject: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it You should also watch

Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it

2015-04-23 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On Apr 23, 2015, at 7:59 PM, Mike Nickerson via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: It seems like the hydrogen conversion is still likely to create CO2. How does the hydrogen cycle reduce air pollution from using methane? Exactly. I'm sure the FCV has negligible _tailpipe_ emissions compared with

Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it

2015-04-23 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV
That's hilarious! Sent from my iPhone On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:19 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: You should also watch Toyota’s new video which says the car can run on Elon Musk’s “bull$$it ”comments and show how they can take cow manure, and process it to hydrogen.. all

Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it

2015-04-23 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:19 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: You should also watch Toyota’s new video which says the car can run on Elon Musk’s “bull$$it ”comments and show how they can take cow manure, and process it to hydrogen.. all they have to do is add “steam and heat”.

Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it

2015-04-23 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV
On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:57 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Um...why not just use that methane as is? I mean, we already do -- every vehicle with a CNG or LNG sticker on it is burning methane. To reduce air pollution. That's why CARB adopted the ZEV mandate.

Re: [EVDL] Toyota FCV runs on Musk's bull$$it

2015-04-23 Thread Mike Nickerson via EV
I think Ben's question still has merit, though. If you start with methane and take it down two paths, what is the difference in emissions and efficiency? The first path is burning the methane in an ICE. The second path is converting the methane to hydrogen and using it in a fuel cell. It