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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Throttle cut-off (Tim Humphrey)
2. Re: Aluminum vs copper buss bar (Dan Frederiksen)
3. Re: Aluminum vs copper buss bar (Lee Hart)
4. Re: Battery theory (Lee Hart)
5. USE charging (Carl Clifford)
6. Re: Battery theory (Lee Hart)
7. Re: Aluminum vs copper buss bar (Roland Wiench)
8. Re: Throttle cut-off (Marty Hewes)
9. Re: Aluminum vs copper buss bar (Martin Klingensmith)
10. Re: Aluminum vs copper buss bar
(Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G)
11. Re: Aluminum vs copper buss bar (Martin Klingensmith)
12. Re: A small silver lining (ROBERT GOUDREAU)
13. Re: Aluminum vs copper buss bar (Dan Frederiksen)
14. Re: Aluminum vs copper buss bar (Dan Frederiksen)
15. Re: Aluminum vs copper buss bar (Martin Klingensmith)
16. Re: Another EV (Ranger) Grin! (Dave Oliveria)
17. K and W Chargers an' Stuff (Bob Rice)
18. Re: Bill Dube nominated for Darwin Award. (David Dymaxion)
19. Re: Aluminum vs copper buss bar ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
20. Re: K and W Chargers an' Stuff (damon henry)
21. Re: Reaction time (was: Bill Dube nominated for DarwinAward.)
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
22. Re: K and W Chargers an' Stuff (Timothy Balcer)
23. Re: Aluminum vs copper buss bar (Timothy Balcer)
24. Re: K and W Chargers an' Stuff (Roland Wiench)
25. Re: Aluminum vs copper buss bar (Lee Hart)
26. Re: Aluminum vs copper buss bar (Dale Ulan)
27. Re: Aluminum vs copper buss bar (Lee Hart)
28. Re: K and W Chargers an' Stuff (Cor van de Water)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 8:05:38 -0600
From: Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Throttle cut-off
To: EV <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
This bike is a dragster.
If you cut-off the controller with a brake signal, then you can't do burnouts.
If you cut off the controller with an accelerometer, then you can't win races.
How about a circuit that uses both..IF the front brake is on, AND the bike is
accelarating THEN kill the controller.
My simple mind would wire...
A front brake microswitch wired in series with a mercury switch (from a
thermostat) to a controller kill circuit.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mark Hanson
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 9:07 AM
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Subject: [EVDL] Throttle cut-off
>
> Hi,
>
> My hat's off to those who race and push the envelope as that inproves the
> technology for everyone.
>
> With the recent buzz about Bill's mishap, I was wondering if it has a main
> contactor shut-off that inherently kills the power to the controller
> everytime the throttle is released. On something that goes this fast it
> might be a good idea to wire the contactor to the brake light switch as
> well. Just a safety thought, I've been doing this on all my EV throttle
> controls since the 70's.
>
> Although all my conversions have been lowly to & from work commuters, I've
> ridden a motorcycle for 35 years and it's possible that on quick
> acceleration, the throttle grip gets pulled back so having a direct brake
> peddle contactor controller shut off might be a good addition to a race
> bike.
>
> Have a renewable energy day,
> Mark
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Test your celebrity IQ.? Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes!
> http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:16:49 +0200
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum vs copper buss bar
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I see a lot of what I consider to be deeply irrational 'copper is much
better than alu' posts.
the legs of power transisters are made from f'ing aluminium
alu conducts a little poorer by area than copper but make a wire 24%
wider (or 54% greater cross section) and it will conduct just as well
by weight, aluminium is actually a much better conductor than copper
Dan
joe wrote:
>Hi. David,
>
>It isn't smart to use an aluminum bus bar, unless it is coated with a
>corrosion resistant metal, such as nickel.
>
>Copper is much better, although it still should be coated (electroplated)
>with nickel. It is readily available from any electrical shop that replaces
>old loadcenters (fuse or circuit breaker boxes) with new ones. Often these
>have screw holes already drilled and tapped for small screws. Another source
>is scrappies, people who make a few bucks scrapping out metal items. New
>ones can be had from Alaska Brass and Copper, or similar outfits, but they
>will be relatively costly.
>
>I have quite a collection of used copper buss bars myself, some about 3/16"
>thick and over a foot long - if someone needs one like that, e-mail me
>off-list at the below address.
>
>Joseph H. Strubhar
>
>Web: www.gremcoinc.com
>
>E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "David D. Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
>Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 4:31 PM
>Subject: [EVDL] Aluminum vs copper buss bar
>
>
>
>
>>I'm adding a PakTrakr current sensor to my Gizmo and
>>need to use a buss bar. I've made one out of 1/4"
>>aluminum but I'm wondering about the issue of
>>corrosion and resistence. The battery box on a Gizmo
>>is not completely protected from moisture. Wind blows
>>right over the top of the batteries and in wet weather
>>it is common to have a layer of moisture on them.
>>Should I go with a copper buss bar instead? If so,
>>where can I get some copper bar stock since I can only
>>find steel and aluminum?
>>
>>Thank you,
>>
>>
>>David D. Nelson
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1328
>>
>>
>>
>>____________________________________________________________________________________
>>Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user
>>panel and lay it on us.
>>http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>For subscription options, see
>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 08:58:36 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum vs copper buss bar
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
> no expert but I would be surprised if alu wasn't perfectly fine for it.
> it has a bit lower conductivity but that's a matter of making it
> slightly bigger
> you can do the math on how much large alu has to be to be as good as
> copper. both corrode which is why copper is coated too as I understand
> it. but I'm guessing even in the worst case scenario the most you will
> have to do is scrape the surface when you attach the wires to get good
> contact.
Aluminum has a number of problems to overcome to make good electrical
connections:
- It instantly forms an insulating aluminum oxide coating on contact
with air. Aluminum oxide is an excellent insulator and very hard
(used as an abrasive).
- It is very soft, and cold flows under pressure like lead. A
connection that is tight today will automatically loosen over time.
- It generates a higher electromotive potential when put against
most other metals. If it gets wet, this higher voltage leads to
high corrosion rates (the alumunum usually corrodes away).
- Aluminum is hard to solder, braze, or weld; making it harder to
make good connections of these types.
- Aluminum burns. You don't want combustible materials in electrical
equipment where loose connections or arcing can easily start a fire.
There are solutions for all these problems, but they involve more cost
and work. And if not done right, you get bad connections.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:17:55 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery theory
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Ian Hooper wrote:
> Well, speculate no longer! I set up the experiment (sort of) on my
> battery tester, just using a fully discharged cell as the load from a
> fully charged cell, and got the following discharge curves out of the
> charged cell:
>
> http://www.zeva.com.au/Equalisation.jpg
Thanks! This is the way to proceed, folks. We can speculate all we want,
but actual data is the only way to move forward with confidence.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 08:18:41 -0600
From: Carl Clifford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] USE charging
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Steven Ciciora send me an email off list when you get a minute; I tried to
email you but I think I got filtered.
Thanks
Carl
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:29:32 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery theory
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Steven Ciciora wrote:
> I don't believe this is as big of a problem as some
> people might think it is. It shouldn't matter how
> long it takes, if the multiple cells are _always_
> connected to each other.
It still matters, because the cells are never identical.
Let's suppose their amphour capacities are identical, but their internal
resistances are different. Start with both fully charged. Discharge them
in 1 hour. If one has twice the internal resistance, it only supplies
half the amphours; so it ends up with one cell at 33% and the other at
66% SOC.
> If you started charging your buddy paired cells, one starting off fully
> charged, the other starting off fully discharged, as the more-charged
> cell reaches full, it's internal impedance goes up, and it will draw
> less current than the discharged cell.
But what if the internal impedance does *not* go up as it reaches full?
For nicad and nimh cells, their impedance goes *down* when they reach
full! For two cells in parallel, the fully charged one has the *lower*
voltage -- it hogs more current, so it overcharges more, gets hotter,
gases more, etc.
> Yes, the paralleled cells will always be at different
> temperatures (nothing is ever exactly the same), will
> have different capacities, and hence different states
> of charge. But their impedances will always be
> different, too, so they will draw and put out
> different amounts of current.
For lead-acids, the hotter the cell, the lower its internal resistance
and the higher its amphour capacity. This means the hotter cell hogs the
load and/or charging, causing it to get still hotter, etc.
All we're saying is that things like type of cell, internal resistance,
temperature, and all the other variations between them complicate
things. You can't blithely assume they will "play nice" together. You
have to *confirm* it through testing, and then have systems in place to
catch problems and deal with them before they become disasters.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 08:27:58 -0600
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum vs copper buss bar
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Now that you got your copper bars, it is best to coat them. About 30 years
ago, we could get lead sticks for vehicle body work, but these sticks are
all lead-free solder. Not good for using on battery connectors. What I did
was to pickup up some pure lead battery clamps and use that lead to coat
buss bars.
You can also get pure rolls of lead from a fish and tackle store, which are
use for making weights.
Just melting the lead and trying to coat a buss bar will not work, the lead
will just roll off. Preheating the bar does not work good either, the lead
looks like a cold solder joint and you can just peal it right off.
What you must do, is to clean a copper bar until it is mirror finish and
quickly apply tinning butter which comes in 1 lb jars from www.eastwood.com.
Use a torch to put on the tinning butter and wipe it smooth with a folded
paper towel while it still molten. Then preheat it again and start to apply
the lead and wipe again for a smooth surface.
It is best to use the same type of metals at the contact point. If you are
using a zinc or cadmium plate wire lugs or battery clamps on a lead post,
they may look bright and clean on the non-contact areas, but take one off
after they have been on for a year, and you will see a dark tarnish area
where the two metals made contact which increases the resistance of this
contact.
If the buss bars are contacting other types of metals, than I silver coat
them using a very high content of silver alloy which is use in high
temperature welding, about 1000 F. or more. Not your basic plumbing type
silver solder. This also takes a special tinning wetting solution. You can
get this type of product from welding supply companies.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum vs copper buss bar
> Hi. David,
>
> It isn't smart to use an aluminum bus bar, unless it is coated with a
> corrosion resistant metal, such as nickel.
>
> Copper is much better, although it still should be coated (electroplated)
> with nickel. It is readily available from any electrical shop that
> replaces
> old loadcenters (fuse or circuit breaker boxes) with new ones. Often these
> have screw holes already drilled and tapped for small screws. Another
> source
> is scrappies, people who make a few bucks scrapping out metal items. New
> ones can be had from Alaska Brass and Copper, or similar outfits, but they
> will be relatively costly.
>
> I have quite a collection of used copper buss bars myself, some about
> 3/16"
> thick and over a foot long - if someone needs one like that, e-mail me
> off-list at the below address.
>
> Joseph H. Strubhar
>
> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
>
> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David D. Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 4:31 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] Aluminum vs copper buss bar
>
>
> > I'm adding a PakTrakr current sensor to my Gizmo and
> > need to use a buss bar. I've made one out of 1/4"
> > aluminum but I'm wondering about the issue of
> > corrosion and resistence. The battery box on a Gizmo
> > is not completely protected from moisture. Wind blows
> > right over the top of the batteries and in wet weather
> > it is common to have a layer of moisture on them.
> > Should I go with a copper buss bar instead? If so,
> > where can I get some copper bar stock since I can only
> > find steel and aluminum?
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> >
> > David D. Nelson
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1328
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user
> > panel and lay it on us.
> > http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:18:21 -0500
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Throttle cut-off
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
That's fine for a street bike, but I see two problems on a race bike.
First, you need simultaneous brake and part throttle to do a burnout to warm
the tire. With a little logic you could just trigger the cutoff from the
rear brake, but then you still have the problem that Killacycle can go a
long way in the time it takes the rider to get off the throttle or hit the
rear brake. Something that can go 0-60 in less than a second really needs a
safety that takes the rider out of the loop, or just never attempt a burnout
without a long shutdown lane.
In Bills case, as I understand it, the problem wasn't that the motor didn't
shut down when the throttle was released, it was that Bill had to release
the front brake to twist the throttle back, and that reaction time delayed
that action. Many people probably would have frozen faced with the decision
whether to release the brake to kill the throttle or just squeeze the brake
harder, which might have made things a whole lot worse. That's a decision
that ideally the rider shouldn't have to make in a split second.
Another issue might have been the type of kill mechanisms used. There are
two types. Those that kill the drive if the rider takes some action (like
push a button), and those that kill the drive if the rider doesn't maintain
some action (like a button needs to be held down to continue). That still
wouldn't eliminate the reaction time, unless the rider lost his grip.
I really think that if burnouts are going to be done anyplace but on a drag
strip, some sort of traction or distance sensor kill system must have
automatic override capability. I suspect that a current sensor could be
used to detect a level of motor current that indicates too much traction.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 8:07 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Throttle cut-off
> Hi,
>
> My hat's off to those who race and push the envelope as that inproves the
> technology for everyone.
>
> With the recent buzz about Bill's mishap, I was wondering if it has a main
> contactor shut-off that inherently kills the power to the controller
> everytime the throttle is released. On something that goes this fast it
> might be a good idea to wire the contactor to the brake light switch as
> well. Just a safety thought, I've been doing this on all my EV throttle
> controls since the 70's.
>
> Although all my conversions have been lowly to & from work commuters, I've
> ridden a motorcycle for 35 years and it's possible that on quick
> acceleration, the throttle grip gets pulled back so having a direct brake
> peddle contactor controller shut off might be a good addition to a race
> bike.
>
> Have a renewable energy day,
> Mark
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes!
> http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 10:59:08 -0400
From: Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum vs copper buss bar
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Which transistors are you using? All of mine have tin plated copper leads.
--
Martin K
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
> I see a lot of what I consider to be deeply irrational 'copper is much
> better than alu' posts.
> the legs of power transisters are made from f'ing aluminium
> alu conducts a little poorer by area than copper but make a wire 24%
> wider (or 54% greater cross section) and it will conduct just as well
>
> by weight, aluminium is actually a much better conductor than copper
>
> Dan
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:02:09 -0400
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum vs copper buss bar
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I think he is referring to the ones inside a CPU chip. They are silicon
with aluminum interconnects.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Martin Klingensmith
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 10:59
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum vs copper buss bar
Which transistors are you using? All of mine have tin plated copper
leads.
--
Martin K
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
> I see a lot of what I consider to be deeply irrational 'copper is much
> better than alu' posts.
> the legs of power transisters are made from f'ing aluminium alu
> conducts a little poorer by area than copper but make a wire 24% wider
> (or 54% greater cross section) and it will conduct just as well
>
> by weight, aluminium is actually a much better conductor than copper
>
> Dan
>
>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:10:07 -0400
From: Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum vs copper buss bar
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Those aren't power transistors, and they use copper interconnects now
anyway. Sorry not trying to be a troll.. I'll concede to irrelevance.
--
Martin K
Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
> I think he is referring to the ones inside a CPU chip. They are silicon
> with aluminum interconnects.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Martin Klingensmith
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 10:59
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum vs copper buss bar
>
> Which transistors are you using? All of mine have tin plated copper
> leads.
> --
> Martin K
>
> Dan Frederiksen wrote:
>
>> I see a lot of what I consider to be deeply irrational 'copper is much
>>
>
>
>> better than alu' posts.
>> the legs of power transisters are made from f'ing aluminium alu
>> conducts a little poorer by area than copper but make a wire 24% wider
>>
>
>
>> (or 54% greater cross section) and it will conduct just as well
>>
>> by weight, aluminium is actually a much better conductor than copper
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:43:42 -0400
From: "ROBERT GOUDREAU" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] A small silver lining
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Bill,i am glad you came out okay of that crash,we wouldn't want to loose
you.
On 9/16/07, Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Well, we just picked up another sponsor for the racing program:
>
> http://www.ridersdiscount.com/
>
> Bill D.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:50:25 +0200
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum vs copper buss bar
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
this was the spec I found online:
http://www.statschippac.com/NR/rdonlyres/B6B4493B-58E8-4070-8CD4-EC95945AF30A/0/Power.pdf
on the specs on TO-247 on page 2 it says alu wires. maybe that's inside
the chip?
I may have been wrong to suggest the leads are sometimes made of alu but
it seems some part of the circuit is. either way I stand by alu as a
good enough conductor for use as bussbar. maybe it's hard to solder on?
maybe it's hard to nickel plate?
Dan
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:25:48 +0200
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum vs copper buss bar
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
well in all fairness the one I'm considering (TO-247) doesn't say either
way from what I can tell.
http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/13241/stgw30nc60vd.pdf
I just once looked for what material the legs were made of in general
(since that seems to matter heatwise) and the one I found was tin plated
alu. obviously some could be copper.
which one is yours?
Dan
Martin Klingensmith wrote:
>Which transistors are you using? All of mine have tin plated copper leads.
>--
>Martin K
>
>Dan Frederiksen wrote:
>
>
>>I see a lot of what I consider to be deeply irrational 'copper is much
>>better than alu' posts.
>>the legs of power transisters are made from f'ing aluminium
>>alu conducts a little poorer by area than copper but make a wire 24%
>>wider (or 54% greater cross section) and it will conduct just as well
>>
>>by weight, aluminium is actually a much better conductor than copper
>>
>>Dan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:46:47 -0400
From: Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum vs copper buss bar
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I guess we're both wrong/right!
-
Martin
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
> well in all fairness the one I'm considering (TO-247) doesn't say either
> way from what I can tell.
> http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/13241/stgw30nc60vd.pdf
> I just once looked for what material the legs were made of in general
> (since that seems to matter heatwise) and the one I found was tin plated
> alu. obviously some could be copper.
> which one is yours?
>
> Dan
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:52:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave Oliveria <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another EV (Ranger) Grin!
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Dave,
Thanks for the congrats! I've been driving the Ranger on ever-increasing road
trips to get a sense of range right now but not ready to work on efficiency
just yet. Gone about 60 miles so far. I'm using Bob Rice's Monster Charger
(0-265V Variac) to charge between drives. I just finished a 20 mile run
yesterday afternoon (mix of back roads, freeway, hills, etc) and the truck was
struggling up the last hill to the house (my fault, though, it would help if I
put a full charge on the batteries next time!).
Now that I have it running I've had to reorganize my priority list to:
1 - Install DC/DC Converter (using two off-board chargers now after a run)
2 - Buy/Install on-board traction battery charger (so I can plug-in and forget
like Bob Rice does on his Jetta - Also be able to "fill up" on the road in
emergencies!)
3 - Finish off little stuff from the initial installation (change tie-wraps to
cable clamps, add insulation blackets between batteries & bed of truck, etc)
4 - Plan and then add switchable electric Power Steering and pulley for Vacuum
Pump for the breaks.
5 - Work in all those house-maintenance things that I've been putting off for
the past seven months, etc
It's really been fun driving the Ranger around! The comforting whir of an
electric motor while you feel the acceleration - cool! I picked my daughter up
from practice after school yesterday and she just couldn't get over the sound
and feel as we took off and drove home (she even took back all that teasing
about my taking so long to complete it!).
I'll be sure to bring the Ranger to the next NEEAA meeting at Bob's house and
show it off to the group.
More later . . .
Dave
----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 12:23:17 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another EV (Ranger) Grin!
> On 9/10/07, Dave Oliveria <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Just a quick note to let you know that my Ranger just gave me the biggest
> > EV Grin! (Next is
> power brakes and steering, though!). I just drove my ranger up and down the
> road to get the
> feel of it then back up the driveway (pulls 200amps on the driveway incline!).
> >
Dave
Belated congratulations! I'm interested in hearing how that vacuum pump works
out. Have you put
enough miles on to estimate range and efficiency?
Good luck,
Dave Cover
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:05:51 -0400
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] K and W Chargers an' Stuff
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi EVerybody;
A few Questions this AM. IS there, Virginia, a K and W Charger Co,
anymore, of Marion Iowa, I think it sez on the beat up box? I have one of
theirs, works fine, so far, been able to FIX it. But, what if?? Are they
still in biz? I googled the hell out of them, didn't see anything. Sigh.
Whatthehell happened to Bill D. and the Killer, or Kill A Cycle?? It was
on the Darwin Awards? Sheesh! Nothing on the List?Been pretty quiet on the
List of late?
Other news, tooting Dave Oliveria's horn a little. He got his Ranger up
an' going!! Another EV gets on CT roads! Slowly we are overcomeing? Ha Ha,
in another few thousand years we can push the gas rigs off the roads at this
rate! IF there are roads and a nation for them, by then???
Seeya
Bob.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DCP Controller Tach Sensor Assembly Sources? NonProgress
report!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Oliveria" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 7:28 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] DCP Controller Tach Sensor Assembly Sources?
>
>
>> Good morning fellow EV'ers,
>>
>> I'm looking for a Tach Sensor assembly that goes with the DCP 600amp
>> controller. Does anyone know where I could get one of these?
>>
>> I've been a bit of a lurker over the past several months while I've been
>> converting a 98 Ranger (with LOTS of Bob Rice's technical help and his
>> garage full of welders, torches, grinders, etc) and I'm almost there. In
>> fact, I hope to be test driving it this weekend! I've got an ADC 9"
>> motor, DCP controller and 144v system (variac for now, charger later).
>> It's been great to hear what everyone is doing on there vehicles (and
>> maybe what not to do, too!). Thanks!
>>
>> I think I lucked out with the DCP's tach feature in that when I install
>> the Tach sensor assembly, the DCP is supposed to provide Tach output for
>> a
>> 4-cylinder engine (same as the one I took out of the truck). I'm hoping
>> to connect this to the instrument cluster tach for that factory-finished
>> look rather than an add-on Tach gauge.
>>
>> Appreciate any help on the Tach sensor sources.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Dave Oliveria
>> Soon to be an EV-Grinner!
>> _____
> Hi Dave an' EVerybody;
>
> Well, 0ff to Dave's garage to try to get the @#$% Rapture controller
> to go. Of course I drove over to Dave's in the Jetta, and decided to do a
> musical controller round. Pulled my still hot(Godamn fan doesn't work
> anymore!) Rapture 450 amper to try in Dave's Ranger, STILL nothin, til I
> hooked a lead from the Pin 6 onthe green plug, counting down from the top.
> To the "Hot" side of the , in Dave's case, contacter, the one that pulls
> in
> when the comntroller is charged? Dave has two, ONE a "Line Switch" which
> pulls in when ya turn on the key. With that jumper in place the truck's
> motor spun happily to life!Voila!! I'll put Daves Rapture 600 back and
> hook
> that lead up and it will run? Nope! Put the 600 in MY car and it was DOA
> there, too. So, It's off to Pete Senkowsky's. DAMN It! This is the cost of
> doing business in Corrupticut THOUSANDS of miles away from EV Tech dom>
> It's
> almost enough to drive ya to contactors! I am clueless to fixing what's
> INSIDE the damn purple box! If I can't fix it with a big hammer, I'm in
> trouble. I can hammer and weld badd-erie boxes and change out springs all
> day, But this?_
>
> Anybody got any non acrobatic suggestions for testing, trouble
> shooting
> these things, off hand? Would LOVE to have it going with out the 2 week
> turnaround time to CA from here?I suspect the prechare circuit isn't
> working.?The fan never runs a few seconds and shuts off like my 450 USED
> to.
> I can live with a bit of thermal cutback for now, or until I get my T
> Wrecks
> back.ALSO dead, before I dropped it off at Petes back in July.Squalid
> State
> controllers, like TV sets and computers, are nice when they WORK. Will
> somebody just BUILD me a good electric car!!!!!!!I can buy, and NOT being
> working ALL the time on. Sigh. I woulda rather have gone SAILING
> today(Smooth, trouble free wind power!), on Wrong Island Sound! The last
> weak the weather has been better than purfect; God Blessed America! THIS
> part! 70's each day,50's at night. IF it'll hold for our EAA Meeting on
> Sat??
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>
> _________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>> --
>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.15/949 - Release Date:
>> 8/12/2007
>> 11:03 AM
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.15/949 - Release Date: 8/12/2007
> 11:03 AM
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 10:16:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bill Dube nominated for Darwin Award.
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
The "cable" could be dental floss. The "weight on the ground" could be duct
tape holding that end of the string. The string doesn't have to go directly
behind the bike, it could go off the side. The risks associated with flinging
string and tape would be less than the risks of the tire throwing bits of
rubber or pebbles.
Along that line, in addition to clearing out in front of the bike, it needs to
be clear behind the bike (I'm assuming this was done). My car has been pelted
several times by rocks thrown by the tires of a car burning out ahead of me.
----- Original Message ----
From: Derek Barger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 11:13:21 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bill Dube nominated for Darwin Award.
A weight on the ground is silly and dangerous. If the cable get
tangled in the rear tire it fling the weight into someone. A switch
on the front tire that if you push against it might work if you hit it
or a sensor on the front wheel it it turns more than one revolution
might work. ...
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:03:36 -0400
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum vs copper buss bar
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>maybe it's hard to solder on?
Yes, it is
>maybe it's hard to nickel plate?
Yes again.
Bill
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:20:35 +0000
From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K and W Chargers an' Stuff
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
h
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:05:51 -0400
> Subject: [EVDL] K and W Chargers an' Stuff
> Whatthehell happened to Bill D. and the Killer, or Kill A Cycle?? It was
> on the Darwin Awards? Sheesh! Nothing on the List?Been pretty quiet on the
> List of late?
You must be losing emails someplace, it's been all KillaCycle all the time,
literally hundreds of messages, ever since Bill took his ride...
damon
_________________________________________________________________
Can you find the hidden words?? Take a break and play Seekadoo!
http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_wlmailtextlink
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:09:22 -0400
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Reaction time (was: Bill Dube nominated for
DarwinAward.)
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>It's
>often called a "brake inhibit" switch.
>Some scooters have the switches mounted in both handgrips. When you
>break the controller turns off.
Sounds like an excellent safety feature for a street bike, but it makes
burnouts impossible!
Bill
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:29:00 -0400
From: "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K and W Chargers an' Stuff
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hey Bob,
I found this on K&W.. a users manual:
http://www.mrsharkey.com/SCT/bc20.pdf
This brochure on a fuel cell vehicle lists K&W engineering as a resource:
http://www.lasv.org/news/publications/brochures/infusion-2006.pdf
KTA seems to still be in business, and shows at the top of that manual
as well. I'd bet they would have some info for you.
On 9/17/07, Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi EVerybody;
>
> A few Questions this AM. IS there, Virginia, a K and W Charger Co,
> anymore, of Marion Iowa, I think it sez on the beat up box? I have one of
> theirs, works fine, so far, been able to FIX it. But, what if?? Are they
> still in biz? I googled the hell out of them, didn't see anything. Sigh.
>
> Whatthehell happened to Bill D. and the Killer, or Kill A Cycle?? It was
> on the Darwin Awards? Sheesh! Nothing on the List?Been pretty quiet on the
> List of late?
>
> Other news, tooting Dave Oliveria's horn a little. He got his Ranger up
> an' going!! Another EV gets on CT roads! Slowly we are overcomeing? Ha Ha,
> in another few thousand years we can push the gas rigs off the roads at this
> rate! IF there are roads and a nation for them, by then???
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:42:22 -0400
From: "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum vs copper buss bar
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
To add to Lee's post:
YES you could use Aluminium for this application. NO it will not cost
less than copper because of all of the various issues with using
Aluminium in electrical applications, and especially with Aluminium
being combustible (potentially) when in contact with iron oxide.
Essentially, all of the stuff you see using Aluminium is VERY WELL
engineered to take advantage of Aluminium's properties, and to
downplay its problems. In THIS application, to properly compensate so
that you would have aq copper equivalent, you would be spending more
money than on just buying the copper to begin with, and you still may
not have something as good as copper because you might have forgotten
something, or not taken something into account.
First, you would have to use an alloy of aluminium to do this, if you
wanted to deal with the plasticity of the metal causing contacts to
loosen.
Second, you'd have to use 50% more metal by volume.
Third you'd have to plate the aluminium in something that would
prevent the electrolytic corrosion that will happen in the acid
environment you are exposing it to. A serious zinc coating would be
good for a year or so, but thats assuming it never cracks. If it does,
you could lose a busbar in few days.
Fourth you'd have to deal with the Al2O3
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_oxide) problem, in that it is
a decent insulator and could easily cause progressive loss, which
creates heat, which softens the metal , which causes it to shift,
which causes loosening....etc.
....and so on. It's not a simple problem to use Aluminium in
electrical work when it is exposed to weather. It works really well in
boat hulls, for example, but they have HUGE zincs under the water line
to draw away electrolytic corrosion.
This is why I am going to go through the trouble and expense of
getting nickel plated copper lugs for some BB600s I have. They are so
far superior to SS that it isn't worth the hassle (for me) or the
losses. I know I know.. there are peopole using SS lugs with BB600s..
I just dont want to take that risk. :)
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:03:40 -0600
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K and W Chargers an' Stuff
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 11:05 AM
Subject: [EVDL] K and W Chargers an' Stuff
> Hi EVerybody;
>
> A few Questions this AM. IS there, Virginia, a K and W Charger Co,
> anymore, of Marion Iowa, I think it sez on the beat up box? I have one of
> theirs, works fine, so far, been able to FIX it. But, what if?? Are they
> still in biz? I googled the hell out of them, didn't see anything. Sigh.
>
Hello Bob,
Here is a trick to find something, is just type in the first letter, by
typing the following sentence in your search engine:
User most wanted with letter K.
This will take you to a WEB address which is call Shop Butler.
Then click on the highlighted sentence :
User most wanted with letter K.
You will then see a long list of words that start with the letter K.
Instead of paging through all the K's which will take you forever, just type
the sentence exactly how it is printed below in the search bar on that page:
K & W Battery Charger Company
You will now see only 7522 pages of K & W battery chargers.
Roland
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:21:55 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum vs copper buss bar
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
> I think he is referring to the ones inside a CPU chip. They are silicon
> with aluminum interconnects.
Yes. They are *sure* there is no air inside. Air or water on an IC chip
is certain death!
Note: In the early days of transistor design, they had cases that
weren't *quite* moisture-proof. Then they got a failure mode knows as
the "purple plague", which was corrosion between the aluminum bond wires
and silicon chip caused by moisture and air getting inside.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:26:37 -0600
From: "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum vs copper buss bar
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Metalization on the IC itself is often aluminium, or an alloy of it. Bonding
wires are most commonly aluminium or gold. Gold has historically been used.
Neither metalization nor bonding wires need to be soldered - they are welded
instead. Different alloys need to be layered to make flip-chips (which can
be soldered) - each metal layer offers a specific function as the basic IC
metalization is not suited to soldering. Cr, Cr-Cu, Cu, and Au layers are a
common layer stackup. Al, Ni, Cu is another stackup.
------------------------------
Message: 27
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:24:31 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum vs copper buss bar
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
> well in all fairness the one I'm considering (TO-247) doesn't say either
> way from what I can tell.
> http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/13241/stgw30nc60vd.pdf
> I just once looked for what material the legs were made of in general
> (since that seems to matter heatwise) and the one I found was tin plated
> alu. obviously some could be copper.
> which one is yours?
That's actually very rare. Leads are normally kovar (steel alloy) or
copper (for higher power parts). Aluminum is generally only used for the
traces on the surface of the chip.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 28
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:54:47 -0700
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K and W Chargers an' Stuff
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Shopbutler seems to be broken, because when I enter
anything starting from the list of entries with the
letter K then I always get 0 results from the database
but if I enter anything from there, I always get 7522 results
and they have nothing to do with K & W.
BTW, searching for "K & W Battery Charger" (with quotes)
brought up only Bob Brant's book; Googling for
"K & W Charger" delivers 10 pages about EVs with familiar
discussion contributers such as Lee and Bill Dube'.
Searching for just "K & W" brought up many, many companies
in all kinds of industries, from model airplanes and tires
to cafetaria and drive-in. Nothing about battery chargers.
I tried the EV Album, because that lists a lot of equipment
for EVs with manufacturers, but no K & W page.
In fact, it seems that Chargers are not listed at all.
Maybe one of the long time members know what happened to K & W
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 11:04 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K and W Chargers an' Stuff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 11:05 AM
Subject: [EVDL] K and W Chargers an' Stuff
> Hi EVerybody;
>
> A few Questions this AM. IS there, Virginia, a K and W Charger Co,
> anymore, of Marion Iowa, I think it sez on the beat up box? I have one of
> theirs, works fine, so far, been able to FIX it. But, what if?? Are they
> still in biz? I googled the hell out of them, didn't see anything. Sigh.
>
Hello Bob,
Here is a trick to find something, is just type in the first letter, by
typing the following sentence in your search engine:
User most wanted with letter K.
This will take you to a WEB address which is call Shop Butler.
Then click on the highlighted sentence :
User most wanted with letter K.
You will then see a long list of words that start with the letter K.
Instead of paging through all the K's which will take you forever, just type
the sentence exactly how it is printed below in the search bar on that page:
K & W Battery Charger Company
You will now see only 7522 pages of K & W battery chargers.
Roland
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
EV@lists.sjsu.edu
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
End of EV Digest, Vol 2, Issue 47
*********************************
