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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Hybrid Technologies PT Cruiser Taxis (was: Walmart (Sam's
Club) to be selling EVs) (ProEV)
2. Re: Sunrise contribution (Bob Rice)
3. battery charging voltage (Brian Staffanson)
4. Re: What is plug braking vs. dynamic braking? (Jeff Major)
5. Re: Hybrid Technologies PT Cruiser Taxis (was: Walmart (Sam's
Club) to be selling EVs) (Kaido Kert)
6. Re: Tweety at Seguin, Texas Car Show... (Mike Willmon)
7. Re: Hybrid Technologies PT Cruiser Taxis (was: Walmart (Sam's
Club) to be selling EVs) (Gerald Wagner)
8. Hybrid Platform - Battery Sidecar (Arak Leatham)
9. Re: Hybrid Platform - Battery Sidecar (Lee Hart)
10. Re: battery charging voltage (Roland Wiench)
11. Re: battery charging voltage (Brian Staffanson)
12. Re: Sunrise contribution (Lee Hart)
13. Re: battery charging voltage (Ted Sanders)
14. Re: battery charging voltage (Brian Staffanson)
15. Re: battery charging voltage (Roland Wiench)
16. Re: battery charging voltage (Brian Staffanson)
17. Re: Electric EVette (Tom Shay)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:15:07 -0400
From: "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Technologies PT Cruiser Taxis (was: Walmart
(Sam's Club) to be selling EVs)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi Peter,
> There was an article not too long ago where a bunch of PT Cruiser Taxis
> were returned to Hybrid Technologies because they did not perform as
> advertised. Here's a link to the article:
>
> http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/07/16/electric-pt-cruiser-couldnt-cut-it-as-ny-taxi/
I can not find anything in the article that indicates there was more than
one test vehicle. Statements such as "The PT converted to lithium battery
power by Hybrid Technologies " seems to indicate there was only one 'Hybrid
Technologies' cab. I am guessing we will not be seeing a bunch of lithium
cabs on Ebay anytime soon.
Interestingly there were three Hybrid Technologies EV's at the SunDay
Challenge (www.sundaychallenge.org) last weekend in Cocoa Florida. There was
a Cooper Mini, Smart Car and a PT Cruiser. All that was missing from the HT
fleet was the Crossfire and the Mullen Motors car.
The cars were on static display Saturday and the person who brought them was
not around to answer questions. The Smart car and PT Cruiser were completely
covered with a printed adhesive over the paint. I resisted the temptation to
peel a little piece back on the PT Cruiser and check if it was taxi cab
yellow underneath<G>.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:34:56 -0400
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sunrise contribution
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
----- Original Message -----
From: "JS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sunrise contribution
> Bob Rice wrote:
>> Hi John;
> . . . . I wanna thank you personally for contributing. . . .
>>
>> Seeya,
>>
>> Bob
> --------------------------
>
> Bob, here is my disclaimer. I have no interest in the Sunrise project
> other than to encourage EV development. I drive a 1981 Jet Electrica,
> and every time I opportunity charge I do so using Lee's advice. So
> my monthly contribution clears my conscience.
>
> At 79 I am living on a fixed income, and do not expect to ever own
> another EV. But I do hope to see the EV2 on the road some day soon.
>
> John in Sylmar, CA
> PV EV with an EV2 smile!
>
> P.S. And Bob, I appreciate the 'Taken for a Ride' video you sent me!
> J.S.
> Hui John;
I'm in the same boat as you: Retired and on a VERY fixed income, EVen
renting out rooms in my house as I can't really afford to live here, or
anywhere ELSE anybody would want to live! I'm hoping to find another
boyfriend that can and would help with expenses. I separated from my wife 8
years ago, came "Out" rather late in life. HAD a loving guy that left me,
well, died of a heart attack, at 53! Smoking will KILL you!I delete those
guyz n the ads early on.Not going through THAT again!I get a decent pension
from Amtrak, but it isn't one like Jack White at Generous Electric. I
figgured I could sell a few electric conversions a year, for extra
income?Got two Sentras under construction, when I get my dead ass OFF the
computer, go buy the longer metric bolts I need to mount the motor/tranny
back in thre 97.Maybe I'll have it running on jumper cables by the EAA
Meeting on Sat? Just takes TIME!
If I never actually OWN a sunrise, like you, I won't be too upset. I want
to see EV's Out there before I pass on. IF I have expidited this, I can say
I did SOMETHING good, becides making my lover happy<g>!To be remembered as a
pionerer in the EV thing, have inspired other guyz to DO something! SOMEBODY
has to! "Be the Change you want to see in the World?" As Ghandi used to say.
I have that sticker in the Kitchen, with many others, stuck up on the walls,
as a reminder." Gay Marriage doesn't bother me, No Healthcare Does". "Live
Simply so Others can Simply Live" another. You can get all these at Cafe
Press on line. I want one that sez" If you aren't MAD, you don't know what's
going on" with maybe, eagle, American flag motif??I'm ashamed of my greedy
generation,They are TRASHING the country!, as I'm about the Prez's age,
older than Chaney! Scary! Yeah! I know, I'm preaching to the choir here as
you got me in years.You have scene too much shit flow under the bridge, too?
Glad ya enjoyed Taken for a Ride, too. It SHOUKLDA gone mainstream, like
WKtEC! I show it around have run off many copies as it doesn't have that
#$%^ Copy guard, as it isn't mainstream enough, I guess.TRY to copy a
current pop movie, and it is unwatchable!Christ! The recoirding industry has
re copywritten MY stuff, music on old 78's, going back to Edison's time!!!
Like I'm selling record copies. I was gunna DO that, years agoo, make
cassette copies of my WW1 stuff and popular 20's music, some from record
co's that are out of biz; Grey Gull of Boston comes to mind. I thonk Sony
BMG owns every recording on the planet?With new crap, like popular"Music" of
today? I wouldn't buy or listen, I'm listening to classical from WMNR a semi
public, private station. Yes I GIVE in their begathons. You have to pay to
keep classical on the air.We're blessed with TWO here in CT. PBS, too.TV a
wasteland! But I need SOMETHING to watch my NetFlix vids on. History Channel
if fun, I tape stuff from that pausing for the godammn ads!They had a good
vid in Freight Trains. I'll send ya a copy of ya like?They are gunna do
"Brittanic, Titanic's Sister Ship' Also sunk.As I'm an old ship geek, too.
The liner" United States " is STILL around, giogle it, for a good read.She
was the pride of our nation, 50 years ago. Now a rusting hulk, silted in in
a slip in Philly. You see her mighty stacks and profile from I-95 going
through Philly.Can't miss her!
OK Raambled on too long here.
Seeya
Bob
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.28/1023 - Release Date:
> 9/22/2007 1:27 PM
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:40:17 -0400
From: "Brian Staffanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] battery charging voltage
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I just want to verify the voltage I should be charging my flooded 6V
batteries. In my research, it was around 2.48V per cell. Meaning around
15V for a 6V battery, and about 120V for my 16 6V batteries. Does this
sound right? I also understand that the voltage should be increased in cold
weather. So as the temperature is around 40 F as the low, I should adjust
it up to around 2.8V per cell. They are basically new, having received them
at the beginning of September.
Also, out of curiousity, what is the voltage per cell that agms should be
charged at?
Thanks for all help.
Brian
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 07:40:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What is plug braking vs. dynamic braking?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hi Robert,
The classic meaning of plugging is to reverse the
field of the motor while the motor is at speed. With
a series wound motor, this results in about twice the
stall current and twice the stall torque. Which is
likely enough to tear apart the drive line or lock up
the wheels. So, when solid state controllers are
used, a normally reversed biased diode is placed
across the armature, called the plugging diode. Then,
when the field is reversed, the plugging diode
conducts and you only get stall torque instead of
twice. The controller further controls the plug
braking by pulsing the field, to weaken the braking
torque and lessen the current. The current comes from
the battery. The braking energy is dissipated in the
motor armature and plugging diode.
Plug braking is a legitimate method of electric
braking. Forklifts use this method with series
motors. Forklift operators seldom use the brakes.
They just go from forward to reverse. It is very hard
on the motor, but forklift motors do survive. With
modern separately excited systems, plug braking is
also available. I use this on vehicles powered by
generators, where regeneration is not possible. On
the battery powered versions, I use regen systems.
>From the driver's feel, he cannot tell the difference.
Obviously, regeneration is the preferred method.
Hope this helps.
Jeff M
--- Robert MacDowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I see plug braking referred to in DC controllers,
> but very little is
> said about it. What is it?
>
> At first blush it sounds like dynamic braking, but
> wait -- I'm a
> railroad guy, so I'm familiar with dynamic braking
> as per locomotives:
> Reconfigure the traction motors as generators, then
> waste the regen into
> big racks of resistor grids. It's so effective that
> in hill country,
> they add locomotives to trains just to provide
> dynamic brakes.
>
> But in the schematics I see for plug braking, I
> don't see any resistor
> grids. Where does the heat go?
>
> Robert
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel
and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 17:50:16 +0300
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Technologies PT Cruiser Taxis (was: Walmart
(Sam's Club) to be selling EVs)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On 10/9/07, ProEV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> Interestingly there were three Hybrid Technologies EV's at the SunDay
> Challenge
<snip>
> The cars were on static display Saturday and the person who brought them was
> not around to answer questions.
> Cliff
> www.ProEV.com
I dont have any firsthand knowledge in the matter, but the impression
one gets from reading the news about Hybrid Technologies products is
that they are ALWAYS mostly static.
-kert
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 06:55:08 -0800
From: Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tweety at Seguin, Texas Car Show...
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hey Ken,
Glad to hear you packed in the crowds. I did my dog-and-pony show again at a
local car show which was the "Pre Show'N Shine" for
a big show the next day. There were 55 cars registered including Electrabishi.
The Lady next to me had a cherry '65 Mustang
convertable that she had a For Sale sign in it. (although I didn't see it
until the end of the show) She look so proud of it as
I was watching the people pass by (on occasion when I wasn't swamped describing
the electrical components). Later after the show
she mosied on over and said "I gotta see what you got in that thang because
people are breezing right by my car to see yours." I
didn't realize she was trying to sell it or I wouldn't have compared the
(previous 192V 1000Amp pack) to her stock 289 saying I
could take that car any day in this electric "golf cart". Oh well. It was fun
and i know you had some of your own with the
crowd. Its fun to do but boy is it tiring. Like Jim mentioned the trick is in
the spread. If its labled people will read it.
If its in print or pamphlet they will take it, and read it later. Business
cards with a couple pics and some links will always
get picked up because people think (this ain't too much to read).
But hey congrats on your award. Display it proudly at the next EVent.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jim Husted
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 5:26 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tweety at Seguin, Texas Car Show...
>
>
> Hey Ken
>
> First off, congrats on a fun outing and an award to
> boot 8^) Just goes to show you that you ain't got to
> be top dog to represent! Sounds as if you had quite
> the Mike Willmon type spread going on there. Anyway,
> I just wanted to chime in and let you know you had me
> grinning from ear to ear as I read your post about all
> the fun you had and minds you've touched.
> Keep up the fun work 8^)
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:57:24 -0500
From: "Gerald Wagner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Technologies PT Cruiser Taxis (was: Walmart
(Sam's Club) to be selling EVs)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
The Mini cooper ran the Sunday Challenge road rally on Sunday with Bruce
Chesson driving. It finished first in it's class and third overall.
Jerry Wagner
On 10/9/07, Kaido Kert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 10/9/07, ProEV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > Interestingly there were three Hybrid Technologies EV's at the SunDay
> > Challenge
> <snip>
> > The cars were on static display Saturday and the person who brought them
> was
> > not around to answer questions.
> > Cliff
> > www.ProEV.com
>
> I dont have any firsthand knowledge in the matter, but the impression
> one gets from reading the news about Hybrid Technologies products is
> that they are ALWAYS mostly static.
>
> -kert
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:35:03 -0700
From: Arak Leatham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Hybrid Platform - Battery Sidecar
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
So what are the relative merits of this idea.
Have a tractor kind of vehicle with only supercaps and hub motors in all
wheels. Then a side car or trailer with all the required batteries for your
shorter trip. The trailer would all have these same hub motors. Let's say DC
for ease of design for the controller.
Then you could exchange the trailer at home for a new pack or for the hybrid
trailer if you take a longer trip.
Having so many hub motors means they can be lighter on each wheel. I would
consider using a 3wheel car with inline seating for two. Then the trailer is a
side car(s) kind of thing tied to the front and back and not extending the
vehicle length any.
Arak Leatham - Web and Desktop Systems Developer
_________________________________________________________________
Boo!?Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare!
http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 12:17:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Platform - Battery Sidecar
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
From: Arak Leatham
> So what are the relative merits of this idea.
> Have a tractor kind of vehicle with only supercaps and hub motors
> in all wheels. Then a side car or trailer with all the required
> batteries for your shorter trip. The trailer would all have these
> same hub motors... Then you could exchange the trailer at home for
> a new pack or for the hybrid trailer if you take a longer trip.
It's an interesting idea. Like all innovative ideas, a lot depends on the
details. Badly done, it's a failure. Well done, it could be great!
Here's an example of a somewhat similar approach.
http://www.geocities.com/conceptcarcentralusa/keslingyare
The Yare was basically a 3-wheeler, with one front and two rear wheels. It was
an ultra-light, ultra-streamlined teadrop. But it also had a trailer which
contained the power plant (which could be a gasoline engine or electric drive).
The trailer was completely contained inside the vehicle, so it had no effect
aerodynamics; sort of like cutting out the floor of a conventional car and
fitting a trailer inside the hole!
I saw the prototype in 1978. As I recall, the electric trailer connected to the
car with two trailer hitches, and had two closely spaced wheels, which steered
with the one front wheel with a mechanical linkage. This way he could back up
with no problems.
--
"Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:17:38 -0600
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] battery charging voltage
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Brian,
It would be 2.48 v x 3 = 7.44 v per 6 volt battery at a battery temperature
of 80 F. Add .028 volt per cell for every 10 degrees below 80 F. so this
would be 4 x .028 v = 0.112 volts per cell. For a 6 volt battery that would
be 3 cells x 0.112 v = 0.336 volts.
7.44 volts at 80 F would be about 7.44 + 0.336 = 7.776 volts or which is
about 2.59 volts per cell.
The 7.77 or 7.78 volts would be a equalization charge at 80 F which is four
times the rate per 10 F degree change. So if you do equalization charge at
40 F. Then you would add 0.028 v x 4 = 0.112 volts per cell or 0.336 volts
for a 6 volt battery.
This makes a equalization charge at 40 F. equal to 7.776 + 0.336 = 8.112
volts.
You do not have to do this equalization charge on a daily basis, only if
your battery voltage is not in with of 2 to 3 percent of each other.
The maximum I ever charge my batteries which were in a un-insulated
aluminum battery box was at 2.78 volts per cell which held the voltage as a
maintainer at any temperature below 40 F. The batteries never went below 30
F.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Staffanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:40 AM
Subject: [EVDL] battery charging voltage
> I just want to verify the voltage I should be charging my flooded 6V
> batteries. In my research, it was around 2.48V per cell. Meaning around
> 15V for a 6V battery, and about 120V for my 16 6V batteries. Does this
> sound right? I also understand that the voltage should be increased in
> cold
> weather. So as the temperature is around 40 F as the low, I should adjust
> it up to around 2.8V per cell. They are basically new, having received
> them
> at the beginning of September.
>
> Also, out of curiousity, what is the voltage per cell that agms should be
> charged at?
>
> Thanks for all help.
>
> Brian
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:54:13 -0600
From: "Brian Staffanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] battery charging voltage
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Thanks for the information. How exact do I need to be? With my 16
batteries, or 48 cells, it would be 124.416 volts, if using the 7.776 volt
per battery, or 124.32 volts, if using the 2.59 volts per cell. If I use
124 volts as an equalization charge, once a week or so, and then 120 volts
as the standard charge, even in the colder weather. At this time, I haven't
been able to insulate my batteries yet. But I intend to keep the charge on
it while not driving. Will this keep the batteries warm enough to not kill
them too soon?
Thanks,
Brian
On 10/9/07, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello Brian,
>
> It would be 2.48 v x 3 = 7.44 v per 6 volt battery at a battery
> temperature
> of 80 F. Add .028 volt per cell for every 10 degrees below 80 F. so this
> would be 4 x .028 v = 0.112 volts per cell. For a 6 volt battery that
> would
> be 3 cells x 0.112 v = 0.336 volts.
>
> 7.44 volts at 80 F would be about 7.44 + 0.336 = 7.776 volts or which is
> about 2.59 volts per cell.
>
> The 7.77 or 7.78 volts would be a equalization charge at 80 F which is
> four
> times the rate per 10 F degree change. So if you do equalization charge
> at
> 40 F. Then you would add 0.028 v x 4 = 0.112 volts per cell or 0.336 volts
> for a 6 volt battery.
>
> This makes a equalization charge at 40 F. equal to 7.776 + 0.336 = 8.112
> volts.
>
> You do not have to do this equalization charge on a daily basis, only if
> your battery voltage is not in with of 2 to 3 percent of each other.
>
> The maximum I ever charge my batteries which were in a un-insulated
> aluminum battery box was at 2.78 volts per cell which held the voltage as
> a
> maintainer at any temperature below 40 F. The batteries never went below
> 30
> F.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Staffanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:40 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] battery charging voltage
>
>
> > I just want to verify the voltage I should be charging my flooded 6V
> > batteries. In my research, it was around 2.48V per cell. Meaning
> around
> > 15V for a 6V battery, and about 120V for my 16 6V batteries. Does this
> > sound right? I also understand that the voltage should be increased in
> > cold
> > weather. So as the temperature is around 40 F as the low, I should
> adjust
> > it up to around 2.8V per cell. They are basically new, having received
> > them
> > at the beginning of September.
> >
> > Also, out of curiousity, what is the voltage per cell that agms should
> be
> > charged at?
> >
> > Thanks for all help.
> >
> > Brian
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 12:55:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sunrise contribution
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
John in Sylmar wrote:
> Bob, here is my disclaimer. I have no interest in the Sunrise
> project other than to encourage EV development. I drive a 1981
> Jet Electrica, and every time I opportunity charge I do so using
> Lee's advice. So my monthly contribution clears my conscience.
Let me also thank John personally for his support. Indeed, he is one of many
people who have been contributing regularly to the Sunrise EV2 project. Maybe
others will identify themselves and their reasons for helping as well.
I've put in about half the money, but others have generously contributed the
other half. Since finances limit how fast we can move, this has basically
doubled the rate of our progress.
Three people in particular stand out. Bob Rice is the founder and chief
organizer for the purchase of the Sunrise body and chassis that got the project
started. He has also been a major contributor of time, money and parts.
Jerry Dycus is also one of the founders and contributors. Even though his plate
is pretty full with his own Freedom EV, Jerry has contributed a lot of time and
expertise on the Sunrise. For example, he just drove up from Florida and spent
a week with us working on the Sunrise chassis. He is a composites expert, and I
don't know anyone who can do more for less than Jerry.
Finally, Tim Medeck is the master craftsman that is bringing it all together.
We're building our prototype at his shop, and you couldn't ask for a better
place to work. He is an absolute genius at fabrication. At some point, we're
going to have to take some good pictures so you can see the calibre of his work.
--
"Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 12:27:40 -0500
From: Ted Sanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] battery charging voltage
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Your voltage for the six volt battery should be about 7.44 not 15. I suggest
you contact the manufacturer of your battery they should have a recommendation
as to the best formula for charging the batteries.
Beano -- 1981 Ford Escort EV
EValbum 1010Ted Sanders
> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:40:17 -0400> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To:
> ev@lists.sjsu.edu> Subject: [EVDL] battery charging voltage> > I just want to
> verify the voltage I should be charging my flooded 6V> batteries. In my
> research, it was around 2.48V per cell. Meaning around> 15V for a 6V battery,
> and about 120V for my 16 6V batteries. Does this> sound right? I also
> understand that the voltage should be increased in cold> weather. So as the
> temperature is around 40 F as the low, I should adjust> it up to around 2.8V
> per cell. They are basically new, having received them> at the beginning of
> September.> > Also, out of curiousity, what is the voltage per cell that agms
> should be> charged at?> > Thanks for all help.> > Brian>
> _______________________________________________> For subscription options,
> see> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:51:18 -0600
From: "Brian Staffanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] battery charging voltage
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
But 6 times 2.5 is 15, but you are right, I was meaning 2.5 times 3. I will
try to contact them as well.
On 10/9/07, Ted Sanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Your voltage for the six volt battery should be about 7.44 not 15. I
> suggest you contact the manufacturer of your battery they should have a
> recommendation as to the best formula for charging the batteries.
> Beano -- 1981 Ford Escort EV
> EValbum 1010Ted Sanders
>
> > Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:40:17 -0400> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu> Subject: [EVDL] battery charging voltage> > I just
> want to verify the voltage I should be charging my flooded 6V> batteries. In
> my research, it was around 2.48V per cell. Meaning around> 15V for a 6V
> battery, and about 120V for my 16 6V batteries. Does this> sound right? I
> also understand that the voltage should be increased in cold> weather. So as
> the temperature is around 40 F as the low, I should adjust> it up to around
> 2.8V per cell. They are basically new, having received them> at the
> beginning of September.> > Also, out of curiousity, what is the voltage per
> cell that agms should be> charged at?> > Thanks for all help.> > Brian>
> _______________________________________________> For subscription options,
> see> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> _________________________________________________________________
> Boo!Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare!
>
> http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:57:59 -0600
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] battery charging voltage
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Brian,
The 124.4 volts will be close enough. When it down to that temperature, and
after they are charge, turn the ampere down to a simmer or just tickle them
to keep them just barely bubbling.
I am now using Trojan batteries, so I normally refer to:
http://www.trojanbattery.com/customercare_batterymaint9.html
It also is best not to have a open type of battery charger next to a battery
pack in the same close container. If the batteries are in the open air,
then it will be ok. Back in 85, I blew one battery which has been charging
on a very hot day, and when I turn off the charger, the charger contacts
made a arc which ignited the hydrogen.
I now keep the batteries in a isolated non-conductive container that is
ventilated with a acid resistance pvc hoses and fan by exhausting only. The
battery charger, contactors, circuit breakers and fuses is in another
non-conductive compartment that is also ventilated with hoses by pressuring
these enclosures with blowers. The air input and exhaust outlets are
filter, baffle and separated by about 10 feet so there cannot be any cross
flow of air.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Staffanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] battery charging voltage
> Thanks for the information. How exact do I need to be? With my 16
> batteries, or 48 cells, it would be 124.416 volts, if using the 7.776 volt
> per battery, or 124.32 volts, if using the 2.59 volts per cell. If I use
> 124 volts as an equalization charge, once a week or so, and then 120 volts
> as the standard charge, even in the colder weather. At this time, I
> haven't
> been able to insulate my batteries yet. But I intend to keep the charge
> on
> it while not driving. Will this keep the batteries warm enough to not
> kill
> them too soon?
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
>
> On 10/9/07, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Brian,
> >
> > It would be 2.48 v x 3 = 7.44 v per 6 volt battery at a battery
> > temperature
> > of 80 F. Add .028 volt per cell for every 10 degrees below 80 F. so
> > this
> > would be 4 x .028 v = 0.112 volts per cell. For a 6 volt battery that
> > would
> > be 3 cells x 0.112 v = 0.336 volts.
> >
> > 7.44 volts at 80 F would be about 7.44 + 0.336 = 7.776 volts or which is
> > about 2.59 volts per cell.
> >
> > The 7.77 or 7.78 volts would be a equalization charge at 80 F which is
> > four
> > times the rate per 10 F degree change. So if you do equalization charge
> > at
> > 40 F. Then you would add 0.028 v x 4 = 0.112 volts per cell or 0.336
> > volts
> > for a 6 volt battery.
> >
> > This makes a equalization charge at 40 F. equal to 7.776 + 0.336 = 8.112
> > volts.
> >
> > You do not have to do this equalization charge on a daily basis, only if
> > your battery voltage is not in with of 2 to 3 percent of each other.
> >
> > The maximum I ever charge my batteries which were in a un-insulated
> > aluminum battery box was at 2.78 volts per cell which held the voltage
> > as
> > a
> > maintainer at any temperature below 40 F. The batteries never went
> > below
> > 30
> > F.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brian Staffanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:40 AM
> > Subject: [EVDL] battery charging voltage
> >
> >
> > > I just want to verify the voltage I should be charging my flooded 6V
> > > batteries. In my research, it was around 2.48V per cell. Meaning
> > around
> > > 15V for a 6V battery, and about 120V for my 16 6V batteries. Does
> > > this
> > > sound right? I also understand that the voltage should be increased
> > > in
> > > cold
> > > weather. So as the temperature is around 40 F as the low, I should
> > adjust
> > > it up to around 2.8V per cell. They are basically new, having
> > > received
> > > them
> > > at the beginning of September.
> > >
> > > Also, out of curiousity, what is the voltage per cell that agms should
> > be
> > > charged at?
> > >
> > > Thanks for all help.
> > >
> > > Brian
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 12:21:09 -0600
From: "Brian Staffanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] battery charging voltage
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I have a PFC20. Will this type occur generally on hot days? Is the PFC
smart enough to trickle the current for me? Or will I need to set it after
some time? The hydrogen is lighter than air, so if I keep the sunroof open,
it should vent fine? Oh so many questions, so little time... It sounds as
if I should have spent more quality time looking for that elegant solution,
instead of jumping right in... Well, I should be driving my EV soon, and
starting to save more money to upgrade...
Thanks for all you help Roland. You have much good information for me.
On 10/9/07, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello Brian,
>
> The 124.4 volts will be close enough. When it down to that temperature,
> and
> after they are charge, turn the ampere down to a simmer or just tickle
> them
> to keep them just barely bubbling.
>
> I am now using Trojan batteries, so I normally refer to:
>
> http://www.trojanbattery.com/customercare_batterymaint9.html
>
> It also is best not to have a open type of battery charger next to a
> battery
> pack in the same close container. If the batteries are in the open air,
> then it will be ok. Back in 85, I blew one battery which has been
> charging
> on a very hot day, and when I turn off the charger, the charger contacts
> made a arc which ignited the hydrogen.
>
> I now keep the batteries in a isolated non-conductive container that is
> ventilated with a acid resistance pvc hoses and fan by exhausting
> only. The
> battery charger, contactors, circuit breakers and fuses is in another
> non-conductive compartment that is also ventilated with hoses by
> pressuring
> these enclosures with blowers. The air input and exhaust outlets are
> filter, baffle and separated by about 10 feet so there cannot be any
> cross
> flow of air.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Staffanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] battery charging voltage
>
>
> > Thanks for the information. How exact do I need to be? With my 16
> > batteries, or 48 cells, it would be 124.416 volts, if using the 7.776volt
> > per battery, or 124.32 volts, if using the 2.59 volts per cell. If I
> use
> > 124 volts as an equalization charge, once a week or so, and then 120
> volts
> > as the standard charge, even in the colder weather. At this time, I
> > haven't
> > been able to insulate my batteries yet. But I intend to keep the charge
> > on
> > it while not driving. Will this keep the batteries warm enough to not
> > kill
> > them too soon?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brian
> >
> > On 10/9/07, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello Brian,
> > >
> > > It would be 2.48 v x 3 = 7.44 v per 6 volt battery at a battery
> > > temperature
> > > of 80 F. Add .028 volt per cell for every 10 degrees below 80 F. so
> > > this
> > > would be 4 x .028 v = 0.112 volts per cell. For a 6 volt battery that
> > > would
> > > be 3 cells x 0.112 v = 0.336 volts.
> > >
> > > 7.44 volts at 80 F would be about 7.44 + 0.336 = 7.776 volts or which
> is
> > > about 2.59 volts per cell.
> > >
> > > The 7.77 or 7.78 volts would be a equalization charge at 80 F which is
> > > four
> > > times the rate per 10 F degree change. So if you do equalization
> charge
> > > at
> > > 40 F. Then you would add 0.028 v x 4 = 0.112 volts per cell or 0.336
> > > volts
> > > for a 6 volt battery.
> > >
> > > This makes a equalization charge at 40 F. equal to 7.776 + 0.336 =
> 8.112
> > > volts.
> > >
> > > You do not have to do this equalization charge on a daily basis, only
> if
> > > your battery voltage is not in with of 2 to 3 percent of each other.
> > >
> > > The maximum I ever charge my batteries which were in a un-insulated
> > > aluminum battery box was at 2.78 volts per cell which held the voltage
> > > as
> > > a
> > > maintainer at any temperature below 40 F. The batteries never went
> > > below
> > > 30
> > > F.
> > >
> > > Roland
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Brian Staffanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:40 AM
> > > Subject: [EVDL] battery charging voltage
> > >
> > >
> > > > I just want to verify the voltage I should be charging my flooded 6V
> > > > batteries. In my research, it was around 2.48V per cell. Meaning
> > > around
> > > > 15V for a 6V battery, and about 120V for my 16 6V batteries. Does
> > > > this
> > > > sound right? I also understand that the voltage should be increased
> > > > in
> > > > cold
> > > > weather. So as the temperature is around 40 F as the low, I should
> > > adjust
> > > > it up to around 2.8V per cell. They are basically new, having
> > > > received
> > > > them
> > > > at the beginning of September.
> > > >
> > > > Also, out of curiousity, what is the voltage per cell that agms
> should
> > > be
> > > > charged at?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for all help.
> > > >
> > > > Brian
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:14:04 -0700
From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette
To: "Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Electric Vehicle Discussion
List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Is EVette the only vehicle in the world with oversized rear wheels and a
single
small caster in front? If there are others where can one read about them?
------------------------------
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End of EV Digest, Vol 3, Issue 28
*********************************
