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Today's Topics:
1. Re: West coast vs East coast motor sponsorship I can only
build one mo... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
2. Re: Best 10kw Gensets - switching to EV-CV's (Zeke Yewdall)
3. Re: Aptera: Another car for Jay Lennos collection ..
(Michaela Merz)
4. Re: Suggestion for a donor car (John Thornton)
5. Re: West coast vs East coast motor sponsorship I can only
build one mo... (Jim Husted)
6. Re: West coast vs East coast motor sponsorship I can only
build one mo... (EV Manny)
7. Re: Aptera: Another car for Jay Lennos collection ..
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 13:31:08 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] West coast vs East coast motor sponsorship I can
only build one mo...
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 12/29/2007 7:52:41 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hey all
Ain't life a bitch sometimes! Being you guys decided
to hold races on the same day, not to mention that
neither of you EVen contacted me as to whether I could
build up a motor for your events, plus having had a
pretty full plate up until now, I didn't plan on being
able to help out this year with either. With that
said I am going to be able to build up one 6.7" motor
for one of you 8^) the problem is which one 8^o
In as much as the Florida boys and I go way back I
know that the west coast guys have been working hard
to get their first EVent together...
One could argue that I've done BBB already, but then
again we have history plus they were my first event,
then again CA is kind of my home turf...
Anyway here I am stuck with a motor core to build up
and a hard decission to make, so in true EVil twin
fashion I'm not going to make it, and will put it out
for fate to choose 8^o
I want one person from each EVent to post a number
between 0 and 1000! Closest to the number I have
chosen will win the motor for their EVent. I've
already sent a copy of my number to someone who I
think can keep their lips sealed who can confirm the
winner as well.
We've got some time so you guys from each group better
choose someone to speak for each of you and then reply
with your number maybe with a title "Our official
guess"? (I don't want 27 guesses from each coast now)
Anyway, I hope this is a little funner for you guys
than me having to choose one over the other, I know it
is for me, LMAO 8^o
Choose wisely 8^)
Best of luck to both groups! sorry I can't do both 8^(
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
-----------------------------
Jim, what does it take to qualify for a guess chance to win your special
motor.
Jim Ludiker
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:31:14 -0700
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Best 10kw Gensets - switching to EV-CV's
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
NREL is working on this already.
http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/ahhps/components_systems.html
Two years ago I got to look at one of the prototypes -- a 20 foot
delivery truck just like the graphic. In a delivery route type use --
start stop, lower speed, they reported the mileage increased from 6 to
10mpg IIRC.
Z
On Dec 29, 2007 10:48 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, here's what you have to deal with:
> 1. A Warp 13" is a series wound and does not do regen AFAIK.
> 2. Any energy captured through regen is subject to generator, batt cycle,
> controller, and motor losses.
> 3. The braking energy when braking a car, much less a bus, is not a
> phenomenally large amount of energy but the flow rate- power- must be VERY
> fast to stop a car much less a bus. The generating capability of the motor
> must be very high to recapture as much as it can. But the real problem is
> this may translate into hundreds or thousands of charging amps to the battery
> and most batts can't handle it, or if they do it's very inefficiency. A123
> should do much, much better than other technologies though.
> 4. The benefit of "buffering" the engine with a "hybrid drive train" in
> normal driving has reached urban legend proportions. In fact it does little
> to increase mpg in most circumstances and may well decrease it. Prius has
> one of the lowest drag coefficients ever seen in a production car. Then they
> used an Atkinson engine which gets much better mpg but it has poor peak power
> to get the car off the starting line and the battery booster makes that
> engine drivable. The lower drag/rolling resistance and more efficient engine
> alone already explain essentially all its mpg gains over other sedans.
>
> Danny
>
>
> ---- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 2:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Best 10kw Gensets - switching to EV-CV's
> >
> >
> > > Good luck finding the space.
> > > Hi EVerybody;
> >
> > I FOUND it! Lottsa room under school buses! A Warp 13" spliced in the
> > driveline, several hundred lbs of a123's on tap. Diseasel engine is STILL in
> > the drive train, but the driver has a Zilla at his/her fingertips and can
> > "Launch" with the electric. School buses stop an' go practically at EVERY
> > house. We all know that! You all have been stuck behind School Buses, right
> > up there with 12 mile long fright trains at grade crossings, for stopping
> > up traffic! Once the bus is rolling, driver engages the Diseasel engine to
> > cruise the Turnpike. Steps on the brake and the batteries charge. Yeah,
> > Woopie doo, a hybrid, but I'll bet it would cut fuel consumption in half.
> > Especisally if there was a competition among drivers as to how little fuel
> > they used EVery day!?
> >
> > A Retrofit kit for school buses? Yeah, have ya priced out a NEW School
> > Bus? Think they go for Tesla prices? EVen with Led acids I think it could
> > work? What's a few tons of T-145's to a bus? That's my not so secret Hybrid
> > design until all the SB's are ELECTRIC! Most SB's sit all day waiting for
> > their call to duty, and, like us, sleep the night away? Live in a handy
> > central bus yard. As vehicles go they are rather chintzy(Light)
> > construction, for their size. IF I had alota money I would convert one and
> > lend it to my local skool district for trial. Same with a "Gone Postal" for
> > the local post office, with a more modest drive train.
> >
> > See ya
> >
> > Bob
> > >
> > > On Dec 28, 2007, at 5:15 PM, Josh Creel wrote:
> > >
> > >> OK, here is my million dollar secret hybrid design: take a
> > >> TransWarp 13
> > >> motor, mount a clutch housing and clutch on the front, bolt that
> > >> to the
> > >> new hy-effecincey engine, low speed, operate on electric, high speed,
> > >> operate on the ICE, plug it in at home and drive around town on
> > >> electric.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.28/1023 - Release Date:
> > > 9/22/2007 1:27 PM
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 13:14:24 -0600 (CST)
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aptera: Another car for Jay Lennos collection ..
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
There's a lot in between black and white. We are all captured in a loop
that needs growth to sustain itself. We will find out sooner or later,
that the practiced and preached motto of 'economic growth' will have to be
replaced with something else: sustainability.
Progress will not only be reached by throw-away products or fast life
cycles. Producers will have to take resposibilty for a product even after
its useful life. Maybe, in the future, you will only get a new *whatever*
if you turn in your old *whatever* or face a stiff 'core' charge.
To turn it back into an EV topic: An electric vehicle most likely will
last far longer than its ICE brethren. So - in the future you might be
able to replace modules, batteries, even the the hull of a vehicle instead
of purchasing everything new. You could exchange your convertible hull
against a sedan or pick-up truck hull. Or your old drivetrain against
something that is more energy efficient. An EV in the future may have
several lifes which would be much more sound than to bring it to a land
fill or junkyard.
It sure would limit how many completely NEW cars would be build. But it
would spark a healthy market of add-ons, exchange parts, updates or
upgrades.
Progress (in the car market) would not be limited to huge corporations
like today, but to small or medium size companies that would be able to
build better controllers, better batteries, hulls or other parts.
mm.
though during its existance it most likely has
> You are correct! If no new cars are ever built then progress STOPS.
> That is a bad thing. No EV's would ever be made and that would be a
> bad thing. Also all the old cars will eventually die beyond repair
> and then you walk. What if you work 10 to 20 miles away? Gonna ride
> your bike or walk? I doubt it. For society today it would be a bad
> thing.
>
> You buy new computers, vacuum's, washers, dryers, and such. Some may
> need to purchase these used. If no new items like these were ever
> built again and only used were available soon they too would be gone
> and you could wash your clothes in the river. Ouch. imagine 1 billion
> people washing in the river.
>
> Build the EV's and folks will buy them. Sure many will complain about
> prices but those folks will always complain and want something for
> free no matter what the item is they want.
>
> Your right, car building and selling is a forced industry. So is the
> fuel industry that feeds the automobile. EV's can break that. Bio-
> Diesel has. Now look at the price of diesel. Ouch.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 29, 2007, at 7:58 AM, Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
>> gottdi said: "If we all waited for used cars to be sold there would
>> soon
>> be no cars and no new cars would ever be made. "
>>
>>
>> You say that like that would be a bad thing ;-)
>>
>> Seriously though.
>> I think as much as the public has been indoctrinated into gas
>> powered cars as the only viable solution, they have also been force
>> fed
>> the concept of model years.
>> While this may seem really off topic, hang with me. This fallacy
>> fuels(no pun intended) the ICE car industry. It is an old way of
>> thinking that is too wasteful to keep around. No car manufacture is
>> bold
>> enough to change this on their own.
>>
>> Aircraft doesn't fall under this requirement.
>> What year model is your computer?
>> These things are spec driven (or commodity driven).
>> I believe that a new electric vehicle company can succeed partially by
>> breaking this cycle. Make the car upgradeable!
>> Follow the concept of software license for a vin, the chassis/body is
>> just another part.
>> Standards would help this like it did in computers. ie open
>> communication standards for battery packs, connectors and controllers.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 13:08:56 -0600
From: John Thornton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Suggestion for a donor car
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
The old Ford Festiva is very light and seems an ideal donor car for an
inter-city EV.
John Thornton
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
> a carbon fiber bicycle weighs even less but that's greatly beside the point.
> removing all the ICE junk and going with lithiums it would probably
> weigh less than your Yaris.
> I imagine the aerodynamic profile is better too.
> and it's all about the impact it provides. your Yaris was a nice build
> but I hope you wont pretend that one based on a Boxster wouldn't attract
> more attention and wouldn't kill more prejudice.
> even has good handling and rear wheel drive in case one wanted to give
> it performance
>
> it's a brilliant choice for the money.
> so much so that if built well it could change the course of history. it
> could flip switches in the minds of Porsche board members or other
> companies.
> just as the Tesla has, exactly because it's attractive.
>
> is this not obvious?
>
> Dan
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:26:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] West coast vs East coast motor sponsorship I can
only build one mo...
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Jim, what does it take to qualify for a guess chance
> to win your special
> motor.
>
> Jim Ludiker
Hey Jim
Baically, I'm just looking for a guess (one from the
west, and one from the east, from who EVer's in charge
of each EVent to determine who gets to raffle it off
or award it as a prize (what EVer you want to do with
it).
As another option I could just hold it here and let
both EVents each have a "guess Jims number and win a
motor" where both sides get a chance at putting their
number in the hat so to speak? and I could freight it
to the winner, if people thought I was trust worthy,
Mawhahaha 8^o
Just trying to be fair having just one available motor
with two events going on.
Torn between old freinds, and welcoming the new kids
on the block so to speak. If you guys feel you can do
a split raffle I'm open to working out the details
where both might get to recoup some of the costs it
takes to put on these EVents. It's a small drop but
it's what I can afford to put into the bucket.
Anyway I chose what I felt was the best option but if
you boys want to arm westle, or see who can spit the
farthest, or..., you just point me to the way it best
helps you guys.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:40:48 -0800
From: "EV Manny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] West coast vs East coast motor sponsorship I can
only build one mo...
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I think we're gonna let Keith do the guessing ( at least post our
guess), as its his fault we're putting on our 1st electric drag EVent.
I've forwarded the email to the one posted on our website to get all
the committee members' input on the lucky number.
Thanks a whole bunch for the chance Jim.
On 12/29/07, Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Jim, what does it take to qualify for a guess chance
> > to win your special
> > motor.
> >
> > Jim Ludiker
>
> Hey Jim
>
> Baically, I'm just looking for a guess (one from the
> west, and one from the east, from who EVer's in charge
> of each EVent to determine who gets to raffle it off
> or award it as a prize (what EVer you want to do with
> it).
>
> As another option I could just hold it here and let
> both EVents each have a "guess Jims number and win a
> motor" where both sides get a chance at putting their
> number in the hat so to speak? and I could freight it
> to the winner, if people thought I was trust worthy,
> Mawhahaha 8^o
>
> Just trying to be fair having just one available motor
> with two events going on.
>
> Torn between old freinds, and welcoming the new kids
> on the block so to speak. If you guys feel you can do
> a split raffle I'm open to working out the details
> where both might get to recoup some of the costs it
> takes to put on these EVents. It's a small drop but
> it's what I can afford to put into the bucket.
>
> Anyway I chose what I felt was the best option but if
> you boys want to arm westle, or see who can spit the
> farthest, or..., you just point me to the way it best
> helps you guys.
>
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
--
Manny
http://evalbum.com/1117
http://EVorBust.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:51:57 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aptera: Another car for Jay Lennos collection ..
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Yes. : )
On Dec 29, 2007, at 11:14 AM, Michaela Merz wrote:
>
> There's a lot in between black and white. We are all captured in a
> loop
> that needs growth to sustain itself. We will find out sooner or
> later,
> that the practiced and preached motto of 'economic growth' will
> have to be
> replaced with something else: sustainability.
>
> Progress will not only be reached by throw-away products or fast life
> cycles. Producers will have to take resposibilty for a product even
> after
> its useful life. Maybe, in the future, you will only get a new
> *whatever*
> if you turn in your old *whatever* or face a stiff 'core' charge.
>
> To turn it back into an EV topic: An electric vehicle most likely will
> last far longer than its ICE brethren. So - in the future you might be
> able to replace modules, batteries, even the the hull of a vehicle
> instead
> of purchasing everything new. You could exchange your convertible hull
> against a sedan or pick-up truck hull. Or your old drivetrain against
> something that is more energy efficient. An EV in the future may have
> several lifes which would be much more sound than to bring it to a
> land
> fill or junkyard.
>
> It sure would limit how many completely NEW cars would be build.
> But it
> would spark a healthy market of add-ons, exchange parts, updates or
> upgrades.
>
> Progress (in the car market) would not be limited to huge corporations
> like today, but to small or medium size companies that would be
> able to
> build better controllers, better batteries, hulls or other parts.
>
> mm.
>
>
> though during its existance it most likely has
>
>
>
>
>> You are correct! If no new cars are ever built then progress STOPS.
>> That is a bad thing. No EV's would ever be made and that would be a
>> bad thing. Also all the old cars will eventually die beyond repair
>> and then you walk. What if you work 10 to 20 miles away? Gonna ride
>> your bike or walk? I doubt it. For society today it would be a bad
>> thing.
>>
>> You buy new computers, vacuum's, washers, dryers, and such. Some may
>> need to purchase these used. If no new items like these were ever
>> built again and only used were available soon they too would be gone
>> and you could wash your clothes in the river. Ouch. imagine 1 billion
>> people washing in the river.
>>
>> Build the EV's and folks will buy them. Sure many will complain about
>> prices but those folks will always complain and want something for
>> free no matter what the item is they want.
>>
>> Your right, car building and selling is a forced industry. So is the
>> fuel industry that feeds the automobile. EV's can break that. Bio-
>> Diesel has. Now look at the price of diesel. Ouch.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 29, 2007, at 7:58 AM, Jeff Shanab wrote:
>>
>>> gottdi said: "If we all waited for used cars to be sold there would
>>> soon
>>> be no cars and no new cars would ever be made. "
>>>
>>>
>>> You say that like that would be a bad thing ;-)
>>>
>>> Seriously though.
>>> I think as much as the public has been indoctrinated into gas
>>> powered cars as the only viable solution, they have also been force
>>> fed
>>> the concept of model years.
>>> While this may seem really off topic, hang with me. This
>>> fallacy
>>> fuels(no pun intended) the ICE car industry. It is an old way of
>>> thinking that is too wasteful to keep around. No car manufacture is
>>> bold
>>> enough to change this on their own.
>>>
>>> Aircraft doesn't fall under this requirement.
>>> What year model is your computer?
>>> These things are spec driven (or commodity driven).
>>> I believe that a new electric vehicle company can succeed
>>> partially by
>>> breaking this cycle. Make the car upgradeable!
>>> Follow the concept of software license for a vin, the chassis/
>>> body is
>>> just another part.
>>> Standards would help this like it did in computers. ie open
>>> communication standards for battery packs, connectors and
>>> controllers.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> For subscription options, see
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
EV@lists.sjsu.edu
For subscription options, see
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End of EV Digest, Vol 5, Issue 92
*********************************
