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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Cross Country EV trip with, LionEV opportunity (nicklogan)
2. Fw: Cross Country EV trip with, LionEV opportunity, MORE!
(Bob Rice)
3. Exide Orbitals (Tim Humphrey)
4. Re: CE - Killacycle match race (Lawrence Rhodes)
5. Re: CE - Killacycle match race (MIKE WILLMON)
6. LiFePO4 sensitivity to overcharge (Dan Frederiksen)
7. Re: CE - Killacycle match race (MIKE WILLMON)
8. Re: High ratio diff question (MIKE WILLMON)
9. Re: Test results (so far) on the Optimas that I bought
(Roland Wiench)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 10:48:40 -0800 (PST)
From: nicklogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cross Country EV trip with, LionEV opportunity
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>you could have the support team
>station pre-charged packs along the way as you cross the country.
There's a scheme to start a company to do just that called Project Better
Place. (NOTE- I'm not endorsing this company or affiliated in any way). At
this point it's purpose seems to be mainly to attract investor's. As my Dad
used to say " Some lures are designed to catch fish, others are designed to
catch fishermen."
See a video simulating their vision of how this would work here:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/10/30/video-of-project-better-places-battery-exchange-system/
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Cross-Country-EV-trip--with%2C--LionEV-opportunity-tp14551470s25542p14583660.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 14:00:18 -0500
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Fw: Cross Country EV trip with, LionEV opportunity,
MORE!
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
>
>> Nikki Bloomfield wrote:
>>> I'm glad in the UK that we have 240VAC. I have two 16A 240V sockets on
>>> the side of my house:
>
>> Hi Nikki an' EVerybody;
>
> So do I, and some in my garage! And on a tree, out by the camper bus!!As
> an EVer I have plumbed in convenient 240 volt 50 amp "Outlets"around where
> my EV's live. But in USA this is the exception to the rule. Here in the
> Colonies it is hard enough to find a wimpy 10 amp/120 volt!! Last trip to
> Hartford I had to go in the kitchen of a Restaurant,The Marco Polo, find
> somebody that spoke ENGLISH, to beg for power. I was successful when the
> manager, who DID speak English., could help me out. Plugged me into , I
> think?, A toaster outlet. It held in and gave me a wimpy, but welcome 10
> amps. Most of the time ya beg power, you trip the damn breaker, so you
> come bouncing out to a cold charger and a ????????charge!
>
> As I have said ad infinatum; It;'s a chicken and Egg thing. Which comes
> first? Charge Stations or Electric cars? It so sad, and maddening that
> like, water, water EVerywhere, but not a drop to drink, looking out at the
> Pathetic(Pacific) Ocean! I'd settle for a few good sturdy 120 volt outlets
> WITH a resettable breaker, one where YOU could reset it! How MANY times ya
> tripped a breaker and just WHERE the circus breaker IS to reset, is the
> issue? Or a 240 Camper plug setup, say at a grocery store, dentist office,
> movie, library, places you may stay an hour or more. WHO wants to hang at
> a shitty convenience store an hour or more? BUT if he had 200-300 amps and
> a charger of that wattage available?
>
> As much dissed Dan sez; Changing out battery packs would soon be a BIG
> pain in the ass as car builders would NEVER settle on a standard size?
> Christ! We can't EVer settle on a common 240 plug, NOW! We all carry the
> adapter for the crowfoot to the 2 streight up and one roundy thingy, and I
> adapt to all those to a 120 volt plug profile which I feed with 120 or
> 240, whatever I can steal. A 120 volt stench chord LOVES 240 , doesn't
> EVen 'stench any more. Ohms Law in your flavour! I use this setup at the
> trolley museum when I plug into their 240 volt 50 amp welder plug. LOVE
> that PFC Charger!! Yes, I have thought of a pole with hook, on top, a
> bunch of trolley car starting resister grids, a cord to clip lead to the
> rail and the hook to the 580 volt DC overhead wires we run the trolley
> cars with. I get that SO many times" Hook yur electric to the trolley
> overhead, for a fast charge, Ha Ha!" You bet! I could take 200-300 amps
> off that line, it wouldn't care! Just knocking it down to 120 volts, will
> be sporting, the first few tries<g>!!Hah! Someday down the trak, ShoreLine
> Trolley Museam could offer it's patrons a Fast Charge with their trolley
> ticket<g>! Hafta make up Trolley "charging Poles" for our Left Coast
> Listers? Works with Muni, Max, Seattle trolley bus cabling. Shame to see
> all that voltage just hanging around<g>!Vancouver, too!You would hafta be
> ready for a "quick disconnect" when the MAX train shows up?We use 480 AC
> in to a full wave bridge rectom fier setup, does about 580 volts DC.Also
> have an antique Motor generator setup, right out of the teens,(trolley
> line substation) that we only use for busy daze when ya need several
> hundred amps, like running a multicar NYC Subway train. Rectomfiers wimp
> out at those starting currents. a MG set winds down, and picks it up and
> runs with it. Cool sounds, as it whines and whistles at it's work!
>
> In rech-trospect, IF we could get ANY outlets, especially 240 camper
> outlets in mauls, restaurants train parking lots, etc?What would this
> take? EAA pograms? Sorta like CA had, but you COULDN'T use the damn
> thing(Paddle charger) IF it didn't have a few COMMON plug setups. There
> are MORE homemade EV's than store bought ones now. I think EV touring of a
> few hundred miles a day is possable, Done 200 miles in one day , in the
> Rabbit , and at Tony's in Worcester, several hours, EAA meeting, as Tony
> only had 60 amp service at his 100 year old house, complete with GAS
> lighting fixtures still in some places! With a 240 boost about half way.
> Back in my "Little Blue Box half wave rectifyer setup, which rattled the
> conduits in Bill Glickman's garage at 70 amps starting charge! It tapered
> down to about 15 or 20 when it was charged. But the HORRENDOUS power
> factor? We stopped off on I-84 rest area and plugged in to a wimpy 120
> volt outlet. I was looking closly at the exposed box and had planned to
> come back and plumb in a 50 amp 240 breaker, range plug and all. The
> attendent, I think HE felt that we were stealing HIS power ran us off, in
> abourt half an hour! Maybe go back in broad daylite with my van, with a
> "Infinity Electrical Contracters" Hartford CT, stick-on sign and just DO
> it? After all in Corrupticut what's a little stealing at OUR level?
>
> I guess EAA COULD get a mass movement for accessable outlets for the
> Common Man?Or SOMEBODY? It'll take another Pearl Harbor or 911? Gas
> rationing or Non Available?OK guyz? What do YOU think it would take?
>
> Plugging along
>
> Bob
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:53:50 -0700
From: Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Exide Orbitals
To: EV <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I've seen a lot of chatter lately about Optima's. I was wondering, has
something happened to the Exide Orbital 34XCD that makes it no longer the
superior product? From what I last remember the Orbital was cheaper, had more
capacity and longer cycle life than the Optima. (Although other than price, all
of those parameters were very close)
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"If you don't "believe" you'll make a difference, then you probably never
will!" -- Jim Husted
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:15:25 -0800
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] CE - Killacycle match race
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi John & all,
Hmmm,, The way Zombie looks now it's not quite the sleeper that Blue Meanie
is. Maybe without the decals and roll cage. I certainly see your point.
I'd be nice to invite a bunch of fast electrics & a couple of Vipers,
Porsches &/or Corvettes. Lawrence Rhodes.....
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 10:31:01 -0900
From: MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] CE - Killacycle match race
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hey if you guys keep it lead for just a bit longer I'll have the
Pinto on the road for this year.
The motor mounts are being fab'd up right now and the batteries I
suspect have made it into town.
I expect a call from Lynden any time now.
But anyway, sure would like to be able to race you guys, Lead-to-Lead ;-)
I suspect of course there's a Joule Injected and a 2SSIC out there
that might want in on this action as well, eh?
Mike Willmon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2008 8:11 am
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] CE - Killacycle match race
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
>
> > In a message dated 1/2/2008 10:01:49 AM US Mountain Standard
> Time,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > > CE - Killacycle match race
> > > Date:1/2/2008 10:01:49 AM US Mountain Standard Time
> > > From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Reply-to:ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> > > To:ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> > > Received from Internet:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You mean Lead or Lithium don't you?
> > >
> > > On Jan 2, 2008, at 8:36 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >
> > > >pump or nitro?
> > >
> > That's what I mean, I am not asking for a head start even though
> we
> > are at
> > least 1000lbs heaver but would like to have in the truck the same
> > type of
> > chemistry. Dennis
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 19:31:49 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] LiFePO4 sensitivity to overcharge
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
it's been said that lithium can't stand overcharge like lead can. does
anyone have any hard info on that or is that an urban legend?
how sensitive are they
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:33:09 -0900
From: MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] CE - Killacycle match race
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hey if you guys keep it lead for just a bit longer I'll have the Pinto on the
road for this year.
The motor mounts are being fab'd up right now and the batteries I suspect have
made it into town.
I expect a call from Lynden any time now.
But anyway, sure would like to be able to race you guys, Lead-to-Lead ;-)
I suspect of course there's a Joule Injected and a 2SSIC out there that might
want in on this action as well, eh?
Mike Willmon
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2008 8:11 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] CE - Killacycle match race
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> In a message dated 1/2/2008 10:01:49 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > CE - Killacycle match race
> > Date:1/2/2008 10:01:49 AM US Mountain Standard Time
> > From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Reply-to:ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> > To:ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> > Received from Internet:
> >
> >
> >
> > You mean Lead or Lithium don't you?
> >
> > On Jan 2, 2008, at 8:36 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > >pump or nitro?
> >
> That's what I mean, I am not asking for a head start even though we
> are at
> least 1000lbs heaver but would like to have in the truck the same
> type of
> chemistry. Dennis
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 10:37:15 -0900
From: MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] High ratio diff question
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
'tis true the Ford 9" is ~3% less efficient, but the greater offset puts 3 full
teeth on the pinion in contact with the ring gear as opposed to the more
neutral GM pinion placement that at best gives 2 full teeth on the pinion plus
maybe a portion of another. The GM is slighlty more efficient, but not
anywhere near as available. I think you can get a stock type 9" with open diff
and standard axles for near $1000, new. $2500 will get you a fairly well
prepared race axle. The Dutchman Ford 9" axle for my Pinto was ~$3200.
Mike Willmon
----- Original Message -----
From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2008 9:26 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] High ratio diff question
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> The Ford 9 inch is definitely the standard choice for custom and
> race cars. Just one counterpoint: I read that the GM 12 bolt is
> about 3% more efficient than the Ford 9 inch -- no I have not
> verified this myself. Alledgedly the GM has less pinion offset than
> the Ford one, giving it less friction.
>
> I looked at putting a new Ford 9 inch or GM 12 bolt in a car (the
> Ford 9 inch is so popular you can buy them as bolt-in replacements
> for Camaro rear axles), and they cost about $2500 new! Yikes! The
> GM 12 bolt has not been stock equipment for many years, so it'll be
> hard to find out of a wrecked car.
>
> If you really want freedom of ratios, you could use an Audi or
> Porsche transaxle.
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: robert harder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 10:13:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] High ratio diff question
>
> yes those ratios exist, but primarily for the ford 9 inch
> differential, though I know a gm 12 bolt goes at least as low 6.5 (
> I have one) but
> when you are getting into extreme ratios building around a 9 inch is
> your best option
>
> > Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:10:30 -0800
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: [EVDL] High ratio diff question
> >
> > Anyone aware of existence of an open rear differential for a
> passenger car
> > (or small SUV) with the ratio of about 5.5:1 or higher?
> > Close to 7:1 would be ideal for a project I have on paper,
> > but lower value could be OK too. Not sure if such tall
> > rations for final diffs even exist, but I know little about it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________Never
> miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:43:26 -0700
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Test results (so far) on the Optimas that I bought
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Dale,
First you take the ampere-hour of the battery at a 20 hour rate.
For a 100 AH battery, then 100 ah / 20 hrs = 5 amps.
It should deliver 5 amperes for 20 hours for a 100 ah battery until its
completely depleted.
Now when you increase the ampere, the actual battery capacity decreases as
discharge current increases.
At 10 amp at a 270 minutes you discharge it at, this would be:
270 mins / 60 = 4.5 hrs
4.5 hrs x 10 amps = 45 amp-hrs
This is about at 50% of the battery ampere-hour rating.
If you look at battery reserve minutes graph, the reserved minutes are
reduce about by one-half as the amperes double.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Test results (so far) on the Optimas that I bought
> I discharged the first 3 with a 100 watt bulb theough
> a power inverter. They each ran between 4:32 and
> 4:36. I think that is only low 40's AH capacity. I'm
> concerned. Are they also all bad? I was expecting
> about 5-1/2 hrs run time at 100 Watts (even with
> efficiencies). The 4th one ran only 4:10. Also, it
> had higher initial sag.
>
>
> I would expect an inverter efficiency of probably 85%
> or 90%, so a draw of around 10 amps. At 10 amp draw, my
> discharge graph shows about 270 minutes or around
> 4.5 hours. Maybe try re-testing with a voltmeter and
> ammeter on the battery side, better instrumentation
> is required to get a meaningful reading. Maybe these
> batteries need a bit of break-in but make sure not
> to break them while doing it. Also, a 100 watt bulb
> is nominally 100 watts but there's a wide tolerance.
> The nominal output of the inverter may not exactly
> be 120 volts RMS as well.
>
> -Dale
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
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End of EV Digest, Vol 6, Issue 6
********************************
