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Today's Topics:
1. Re: "Good faith" (was: CE - Killacycle match race) (Bill Dube)
2. Re: LiFePO4 sensitivity to overcharge (Dan Frederiksen)
3. Re: Anyone know an airbag person / company for new
electricvehicle? (gary)
4. Fw: (ET) E20 motor at 48V, Questions? (Bob Rice)
5. Re: Regen efficiency. Hard numbers. And happy new year to all
EVDListers ! (Peter VanDerWal)
6. Re: Effects of UNDERcharging LiFe4Po batteries? (Dan Frederiksen)
7. Re: "Good faith" (Dan Frederiksen)
8. Re: RE-Writing History, was "Good faith" (was: CE -
Killacycle match race) (Roderick Wilde)
9. Re: RE-Writing History, was "Good faith" (was: CE -
Killacycle match race) (Bill Dube)
10. Interesting fuel cell (Rick Beebe)
11. Re: WOW Check this out: 1966 Jawa Project 24 Volt Electric
Motorcycle/Electric Vehicle. (shred)
12. Re: Regen efficiency. Hard numbers. And happy new year to all
EVDListers ! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
13. How to do a Cross US EV trip (jerryd)
14. Re: "Good faith" (was: CE - Killacycle match race)
(Roderick Wilde)
15. Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage By Chris Demorro
(Lawrence Rhodes)
16. Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage By Chris
Demorro ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
17. Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage By Chris
Demorro (m gol)
18. cut once? (m gol)
19. Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage By Chris
Demorro (Kaido Kert)
20. Wonderful NEDRA write-up (was: "Good faith") (Bill Dube)
21. Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage By Chris
Demorro (Tim Humphrey)
22. Re: Effects of UNDERcharging LiFe4Po batteries? (Morgan LaMoore)
23. Re: Regen efficiency. Hard numbers. And happy new year to all
EVDListers ! (henry buehler)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 08:21:26 -0700
From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] "Good faith" (was: CE - Killacycle match race)
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
I know that I'm going to be at the track someday, and mention that
the KillaCycle was the first to break into the sevens, just to have
someone say "Hey, that is a load of Crap. Dennis Berube has _always_
held the record! Everyone knows that!"
This just is not fair to me and the many people on the KillaCycle
team that worked so hard to be the first to break the "eight second
barrier". It is theft, plain and simple.
You know, it isn't only the KillaCycle record that Dennis is
"stealing". Dennis is stealing the records of TWO additional
historical drag racers while he is at it, but they are no longer
alive to complain about it. He is counting on the fact that few
people are willing to stand up for that sort of thing. Look at the
heat I'm getting!
Dennis also is far from the "innocent victim" he is claiming to be. I
asked the folks at the Dennis's PR agency about the press release.
Here is a direct quote from them: "The info was supplied by Dennis Berube."
Notice also that Dennis managed to alter selected parts of his
website the next day after I (and others) pointed out several blatant
lies. He fixed those ASAP, but now, suddenly, he is no longer in
control again?
You need to just stop believing what Dennis says at face value and
look at the facts of the matter.
At 07:36 AM 1/3/2008, you wrote:
>Come on, Bill - this is getting just mean-spirited!! Knock it off, and give
>Dennis the room (time) to fix the issues and get his website changed, if
>necessary. There is no room for this type of back-biting on this list!!
>
>Joseph H. Strubhar
>
>Web: www.gremcoinc.com
>
>E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bill Dube" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 9:57 PM
>Subject: [EVDL] "Good faith" (was: CE - Killacycle match race)
>
>
> > There really in nothing for us to gain if you are going to twist and
> > bend (or erase) the result in the press if you manage to lose. If we
> > were to win, I can imagine your Press Release headline now:
> >
> > "BERUBE PLACES SECOND! Killacycle finishes next to last."
> >
> > It is a lot like placing a wager with someone that is going to stiff
> > you if they lose. There in no point in betting in the first place
> > with that sort of person.
> >
> > Just change the website so it is more honest. (The fact that you are
> > _so_ reluctant to do the right thing here pretty much predicts the
> > future.)
> >
> > PS We had the official ET record for _eight_ months of last year. (We
> > actually beat your record the first time back in November of 2006 in
> > Las Vegas, by the way.) We have also have held the 1/4 mile EV speed
> > record for SEVEN years.
> >
> > I'm smarter to pass on the event if a "win" is going to cause me
> > grief like this latest batch. Life is too short for this.
> >
> > Bill Dube'
> >
> >
> >>In which way would you like my site altered? Visit again before you
> >>answer.
> >>If you want me to say you had the record a few months last year I
> >>will, if you
> >>alter your site to say that I have had the et record since the inception
> >>of
> >>nedra record keeping.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008
> > 11:29 AM
> >
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 16:22:56 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4 sensitivity to overcharge
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
fascinating how creative so many are in trying to make something my fault :)
while the premise of your criticism is wrong, it is perhaps worth a shot
to ask the manufacturers. the data you pretend is so readily available
from them is however not. even the simplest data can be hard to wrestle
from the incompetent people in the sales departments of the various
makers. it is not uncommon that I have to patiently go through 3-4 email
iterations before they realize they have errors in their datasheets no
matter how obvious. Headway who make these nice big cells sent me cells
that didn't exist on the list of their products because someone else had
decided to change the parameters of their products. instead of a 6.5Ah
cell it was now an 8Ah cell. I pointed out that this would change the
internal resistance and other specs but she so blindly trusted her data
that she brushed it off as nonsense on my part. the silly little
customer, go away. Some of these companies are so stupid that they even
refuse to sell their products, like A123. "you can't have se duck"
good luck getting data out of those guys. even if they have it. Maybe
Dube could but take a suggestion from the troll....that's dangerously
close to admitting mistakes.
but your assumed position raised an interesting point. looking at all
the datasheets I have collected, not one covers the consequences of
trickle overcharge. not one warning, not one graph of cycle life. That
might mean it's not as big a problem as has been rumored. could also
just be an oversight.
Dan
Richard Acuti wrote:
> I mean, he's basically asking us (who have no written proof because we didn't
> develop or make the damned things), and then tells us that we don't know what
> we're talking about just so he can tout how smart and scientific he is.
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:07:51 -0600
From: "gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone know an airbag person / company for new
electricvehicle?
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250"
Amsafe is in Phoenix and they make seatbelt airbags for aviation
http://www.amsafe.com/products/detail.php?id=4&type=categories .
Gary Krysztopik
www.ZWheelz.com
San Antonio, TX
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Arak Leatham
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 12:09 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone know an airbag person / company for new
electricvehicle?
There was an AirBag manufacturor out here in Mesa/Queen Creek close to
the ?GM? Test track.
Maybe someone else out here in Arizona knows of this place? It's with in
5 miles of where I live now.
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date:
1/2/2008 11:29 AM
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:28:56 -0500
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Fw: (ET) E20 motor at 48V, Questions?
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Konstanty, Walter (GE Indust, ConsInd)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: (ET) E20 motor at 48V, Questions?
> Hi Walter;
>
> High speed motors are stacked out for low inertia and high speed.
>> The Disney Cruise Ships are powered by 2-60,000HP ac motors that are 20'
>> high but only 3' long.....low speed, high torque for propeller shafts.
>> When a load is applied to the shaft, the motor slows down and the
>> armature draws current to keep voltages equal. If you decrease armature
>> volts when it's running, the CEMF is higher than applied volts and the
>> motor generates (moving amps the other way to lower speed).
OK I looked at those de-mentions again. I THOUGHT they were 20'
LONG and 3 ' in dia?Sorta reminiscent of those ANCIENT power plant fotos of
hundred years ago with those skinny dynamoes. The Pennsylvania RR built E
loco's with a BIG skinny DC Series motor about 7 foot in Dia.INSIDE the
carbody of the engine! They wre looking for, and GOT serious torque! A very
picturesque side rod and counterbalance setup, to turn the wheels. See one
live at the PRR Museum in PA.
>
>> I HAD to ask, here ;Is 60,000 HP a missprint? Ship geek mode here. That
>> Mickey Mouse Boat must FLY!! And with TWO, for racing? The SS United
>> States,Pride of our nation, 50 years ago! She retired the Blue Riband, in
>> what '53 or so?Blew away the Queen Merry.had 240 thou shaft HP but with a
>> bilge FULL of turbines and boilers. Mickey's Boats are, I'm sure
>> Diseasel-electric, like popular locomotives EVerywhere.The 120k worth of
>> Diseasels MUST be something to sea! Relatively tiny motors there? Most
>> skinny jobs like that are high speed? For a prop shaft on a BIG ass
>> "motor"boat you may want 78-100 RPM, to swing 20' wheels?So are there
>> reduction gears in there, too? Titanic did 80 rpm awile, before it's
>> mishap, I think, managing to get by with less than 50k hp?Fast enough to
>> severly damage an iceberg! I was thinking 6k motors, two, like trolling
>> motors, just a tad bigger and able to swivel 360 for Ships ' Autocross,
>> or docking?
>
> SEA Ya
>
> Bob
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:41:04 -0700 (MST)
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Regen efficiency. Hard numbers. And happy new year
to all EVDListers !
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> On Jan 3, 2008 3:27 AM, Metric Mind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Jukka and all,
>>
>> I think I know something about regen I can tell ;-)
>>
>> Yes, we tried with you to capture energy in ACRX equipped with
>> ultracaps, logging (rather looking at) Ah in and out of the battery.
>> Ah in this case is not as good indication as Wh since voltage
>> on regen is higher so the amps (and thus Ah) - "artificially" lower
>> than if the voltage would be the same.
>
> I disagree. Counting Ah instead of Wh is a better measure; it includes
> battery inefficiencies.
I guess it all depends on what you are trying to test. If you are only
interested in the efficiency of the motor/controller/transmission, then WH
is a better measure. If you want total system efficiency (including the
battery) then AH is better.
This is also a perfect example of why I stated that measuring EV regen
efficiency is pretty much useless.
It depends entirely on compenent selection, PLUS driving style, PLUS
terrain, PLUS weather, PLUS etc.
Victors numbers are cool (VERY cool) and impressive, but pretty much
meaningless to anyone elses conversion.
You can get just about the same numbers by guestimating, i.e.
IIRC his AC motor/controller has a posted (average) efficiency of about
92%, assuming his transmission, diff, wheels, etc. have a 90%
efficiency...
.92 * .90 = .828 from battery to road (not including battery)
from road to battery .828 *.90 * .92 = 68.6%
Add in some aero loss and you are right at the numbers he has posted.
Of course this number only applies if all you do is accelerate and then
immediately regen, then accelerate and then regen. Even the mailman
doesn't drive quite like that.
Add in some steady-state driving, or hills, or wind, or... and the actual
number become almost impossible to determine ahead of time.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 16:45:07 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Effects of UNDERcharging LiFe4Po batteries?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Richard Acuti wrote:
> I am curious if anyone has any data on the effect or consequence of slightly
> UNDERcharging Lithium batteries. I am accepting wild theories, anecdotal
> evidence and tribal knowledge at this time.
it's not hard data but it is indicative that GM has made the preliminary
decision to do just that for the Chevrolet Volt. I think it was
something like from 30%-80% SOC using only half the capacity.
Dan
PS. you should probably specify at least that it's LiFePO4 chemistry.
some lithium chemistries are so different that they can't even be
recharged at all...
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 16:54:40 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] "Good faith"
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
joe wrote:
> Come on, Bill - this is getting just mean-spirited!!
no it's the simple truth. you are being mean by suggesting the list
should just accept the mendacity. rather than be afraid of the truth and
support the lies you could calmly suggest to Dennis that he be more
honest in the future. not that truth is a democracy but some in error
will respond to democratic tendencies. like Bush.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 08:02:17 -0800
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] RE-Writing History, was "Good faith" (was: CE -
Killacycle match race)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Joe, what you are calling back biting others may call a desire for the
truth. First a disclaimer. People in certain circles know that there is no
love loss between Bill Dube and I. We have major disagreements that go back
several years. That said I can still understand Bill's position. Trying to
distort the truth for personal gain is just plain wrong and rewriting
history is even worse. I feel I am being polite when I say distorting the
truth. Things that are happening in electric drag racing right now in this
time will go down in history. The accuracy of the writing of this history is
EXTREMELY IMPORTANT !!!
This re-writing of historical events is not anything new with Dennis. He
recently changed his web site to say The Quickest Electric Dragster in the
World. Before that it said The Quickest EV in the World. He also claims to
have held this position since 1991. He has claimed to have been a friend of
the late Ed Rannberg. Ed was a dear friend of mine. I am the one responsible
for getting the Rannberg Cup initiated and getting him the recognition he
deserved on the NEDRA web site. Dennis knows for a fact that Ed Rannberg was
doing 11 second ETs back in the early eighties. From Dennis' own web site he
claims his low ET and speed for 1992 was 14.976 at 87.94 mph. This is no
where near Ed's 11.54 ET or Speeds near 110 mph. In 1973 Roger Hedlund had
an electric dragster named "The Battery Box" which was running low 13s at
over 100 mph. You can see a picture of it here:
http://www.nedra.com/hedlund_100mph_club.html In 1974 he took his dragster
to the Bonneville Salt Flats and did an official F.I.A. World Record of
174.92 mph. This record stood for twenty years. Joe, if you do not think
that the truth is important in reporting historical events then please let
it be known. I for one think that it is extremely important for future
generations who latter read about the beginnings of electric drag racing to
be able to get the facts. Not just one person's re-writing of history.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 6:36 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] "Good faith" (was: CE - Killacycle match race)
> Come on, Bill - this is getting just mean-spirited!! Knock it off, and
> give
> Dennis the room (time) to fix the issues and get his website changed, if
> necessary. There is no room for this type of back-biting on this list!!
>
> Joseph H. Strubhar
>
> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
>
> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Dube" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 9:57 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] "Good faith" (was: CE - Killacycle match race)
>
>
>> There really in nothing for us to gain if you are going to twist and
>> bend (or erase) the result in the press if you manage to lose. If we
>> were to win, I can imagine your Press Release headline now:
>>
>> "BERUBE PLACES SECOND! Killacycle finishes next to last."
>>
>> It is a lot like placing a wager with someone that is going to stiff
>> you if they lose. There in no point in betting in the first place
>> with that sort of person.
>>
>> Just change the website so it is more honest. (The fact that you are
>> _so_ reluctant to do the right thing here pretty much predicts the
>> future.)
>>
>> PS We had the official ET record for _eight_ months of last year. (We
>> actually beat your record the first time back in November of 2006 in
>> Las Vegas, by the way.) We have also have held the 1/4 mile EV speed
>> record for SEVEN years.
>>
>> I'm smarter to pass on the event if a "win" is going to cause me
>> grief like this latest batch. Life is too short for this.
>>
>> Bill Dube'
>>
>>
>>>In which way would you like my site altered? Visit again before you
>>>answer.
>>>If you want me to say you had the record a few months last year I
>>>will, if you
>>>alter your site to say that I have had the et record since the inception
>>>of
>>>nedra record keeping.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date:
>> 1/2/2008
>> 11:29 AM
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008
> 11:29 AM
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 09:49:27 -0700
From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] RE-Writing History, was "Good faith" (was: CE -
Killacycle match race)
To: Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Electric Vehicle Discussion
List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Here is a comment that is on the "180" YouTube video:
>He was using the altairnano lithium batteries. Lots of power. As you
>may know he broke his own record for the 1/4 mile in an electric
>dragster with those batteries.
>
>Dennis broke his record, ending the day at 8.2sec in the quarter
>mile at over 150MPH!
>
>he previously held the record of 8.8 sec and no one has ever beaten him.
Dennis's "misinformation" is spreading quite effectively,
just as I said it would. If Dennis isn't stopped ASAP, his
revisionist history will become the accepted "facts". Claiming
records that aren't yours is theft, plain and simple.
Bill Dube'
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 11:33:53 -0500
From: Rick Beebe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Interesting fuel cell
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I thought this portable fuel-cell "generator" is interesting technology.
Not useful for us for a few years but it may be technology worth keeping
an eye on.
http://www.cameratown.com/news/news.cfm?id=4815
--Rick
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:17:46 -0800 (PST)
From: shred <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] WOW Check this out: 1966 Jawa Project 24 Volt
Electric Motorcycle/Electric Vehicle.
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
The owner Jack said when he used the salt water Immersion Controller not only
did much of the water slosh out of the cooler but the cooler started to
melt. Just imagine two big plates with the gas pedal hooked to pulleys
pulling the plates further apart to decelerate.
Neal
Dan Frederiksen-2 wrote:
>
> shred wrote:
>> You got to see the controller
>> set up. http://poormansev.com/
>
> yes, very industrious. but the tragedy/opportunity is that with a simple
> decent open source controller design it would be simpler and cheaper for
> him to build that so he could do it right. Ian Hooper has had initial
> succes with his controller design and maybe I can overcome my
> procrastination too and get something working that could be publicly
> scrutinized and maybe benefit others.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/WOW-Check-this-out%3A-1966-Jawa-Project-24-Volt-Electric-Motorcycle-Electric-Vehicle.-tp14589361s25542p14601187.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:25:36 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Regen efficiency. Hard numbers. And happy new year
to all EVDListers !
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Electric Vehicle Discussion List
<ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
So in other words, Regen is very good in stop and go situations and
for stopping your heavy lead sled. If nothing else it is a good
safety benefit. Capturing some energy back while stopping is a side
benefit. A nice one.
: )
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 12:31:43 -0500
From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] How to do a Cross US EV trip
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi All,
It isn't that hard a thing to do, one could
even do it fairly fast in lead batts.
How is using a Sunrise, Freedom EV optimized
would get under 100wthr/mile. The Sunrise EV for range could
pack enough stock lead to get 150 mile usable range, the
Freedom about 120miles+. The Freedom might be able to get as
low as 70wthr/mile optimised at 55mph, especially with a
Li-ion pack.
Then you just need 30-50amp, 240vac outlets.
These could be arranged by say using campgrounds or someone
like 7-11, Walmart as sponsors for having the power outlets
ready. At 50 amps/240vac you can charge at the 120mph rate
so drive 1-2 hrs and charge .5-1hr would with a co driver be
able to cross the US in about 100 hrs without any support
vehicles.
Now using Li-ion both could easily carry a
50kw pack allowing 400+ miles between charges though they
would take longer, about 4hrs.
With a little planning it could be easily done
on not much money. Other EV's could be an old or race
chassis under an Aero kitcar body could easily do this or a
Karman Ghia with li-ions.
The secret is a very low drag EV that can
carry 55% battery weight or more can do this on lead.
The Aptera is a good group of people who are really doing a
good EV. I talked to, helped them with their early EV drive
problems and talked composites and was impressed with them,
their pragmatic approach. As far as crash protection,
probably not bad from the stuff I learned about. The shape
is a high speed racing Human power vehicle one I believe
they adopted.
Jerry Dycus
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:19:26 -0800
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] "Good faith" (was: CE - Killacycle match race)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
There is a historical piece of mis-information on this post of yours Bill. I
just called Roger Hedlund in Sunnyvale, CA. to let him know of his demise
;-) He did not answer the phone but I left him a voicemail. He still is at
the same address and still has the same message on his phone that he had
several years ago. Maybe he is not with us and only his home and voicemail
are :-) I will confirm to the list after I speak with him. You folks with EV
chapters in his area should invite him as an honored guest to one of your
meetings and get his autograph. I think that might make him feel good about
being the EV pioneer he truly is. If anyone knows of anyone who was drag
racing EVs back in the fifties or sixties please let me know.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dube" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] "Good faith" (was: CE - Killacycle match race)
>I know that I'm going to be at the track someday, and mention that
> the KillaCycle was the first to break into the sevens, just to have
> someone say "Hey, that is a load of Crap. Dennis Berube has _always_
> held the record! Everyone knows that!"
>
> This just is not fair to me and the many people on the KillaCycle
> team that worked so hard to be the first to break the "eight second
> barrier". It is theft, plain and simple.
>
> You know, it isn't only the KillaCycle record that Dennis is
> "stealing". Dennis is stealing the records of TWO additional
> historical drag racers while he is at it, but they are no longer
> alive to complain about it. He is counting on the fact that few
> people are willing to stand up for that sort of thing. Look at the
> heat I'm getting!
>
> Dennis also is far from the "innocent victim" he is claiming to be. I
> asked the folks at the Dennis's PR agency about the press release.
> Here is a direct quote from them: "The info was supplied by Dennis
> Berube."
>
> Notice also that Dennis managed to alter selected parts of his
> website the next day after I (and others) pointed out several blatant
> lies. He fixed those ASAP, but now, suddenly, he is no longer in
> control again?
>
> You need to just stop believing what Dennis says at face value and
> look at the facts of the matter.
>
> At 07:36 AM 1/3/2008, you wrote:
>>Come on, Bill - this is getting just mean-spirited!! Knock it off, and
>>give
>>Dennis the room (time) to fix the issues and get his website changed, if
>>necessary. There is no room for this type of back-biting on this list!!
>>
>>Joseph H. Strubhar
>>
>>Web: www.gremcoinc.com
>>
>>E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Bill Dube" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
>>Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 9:57 PM
>>Subject: [EVDL] "Good faith" (was: CE - Killacycle match race)
>>
>>
>> > There really in nothing for us to gain if you are going to twist and
>> > bend (or erase) the result in the press if you manage to lose. If we
>> > were to win, I can imagine your Press Release headline now:
>> >
>> > "BERUBE PLACES SECOND! Killacycle finishes next to last."
>> >
>> > It is a lot like placing a wager with someone that is going to stiff
>> > you if they lose. There in no point in betting in the first place
>> > with that sort of person.
>> >
>> > Just change the website so it is more honest. (The fact that you are
>> > _so_ reluctant to do the right thing here pretty much predicts the
>> > future.)
>> >
>> > PS We had the official ET record for _eight_ months of last year. (We
>> > actually beat your record the first time back in November of 2006 in
>> > Las Vegas, by the way.) We have also have held the 1/4 mile EV speed
>> > record for SEVEN years.
>> >
>> > I'm smarter to pass on the event if a "win" is going to cause me
>> > grief like this latest batch. Life is too short for this.
>> >
>> > Bill Dube'
>> >
>> >
>> >>In which way would you like my site altered? Visit again before you
>> >>answer.
>> >>If you want me to say you had the record a few months last year I
>> >>will, if you
>> >>alter your site to say that I have had the et record since the
>> >>inception
>> >>of
>> >>nedra record keeping.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > For subscription options, see
>> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date:
>> > 1/2/2008
>> > 11:29 AM
>> >
>> >
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>For subscription options, see
>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008
> 11:29 AM
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:21:28 -0800
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage By Chris
Demorro
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Electric Vehicle
Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "SFEVA"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I got this from the ET list. I can't imagine these figures are correct.
Lawrence Rhodes..
Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage By Chris Demorro
Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" [EMAIL PROTECTED] cleannewworld
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 1:25 pm ((PST))
(A good argument for solid state lithium-ion batteries, and 100% pure
electric cars... Interesting this writer picked the xB as the least of all
evil... that's what I drive. But then, Toyota in its grand wisdom, stopped
making the version I own, transformed the new edition into a plain run of
the mill SUV. Shame on them! Rem)
Central Connecticut State University
http://clubs.ccsu.edu/Recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188
Editorial & Commentary
March 7, 2007
Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
By Chris Demorro
Staff Writer
The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so
environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show
the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate 'green
car' is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes
more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.
Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first
understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid
on the market, the Toyota Prius.
The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower,
1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine
that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000
revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it
is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where
the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you,
it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The
battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the
gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great
energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?
You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which
netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles
per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized
how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds
limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests
which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway
speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the
Prius's EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the
Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs
less then half what the Prius costs.
However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn't be writing
this article. It gets much worse.
Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that
is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the
Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is
mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so
much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used
the 'dead zone' around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the
plant is devoid of any life for miles.
The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius' battery and
Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the
plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming
every environmentalist's nightmare.
"The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the
soil slid down off the hillside," said Canadian Greenpeace
energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a
British-based newspaper.
All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to
make a hybrid doesn't end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous
plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery
in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce 'nickel
foam.' From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are
shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required
to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like
environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?
Wait, I haven't even got to the best part yet.
When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a
Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50
percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius's arch nemesis.
Through a study by CNW Marketing called "Dust to Dust," the total combined
energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials
(metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected
lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven
over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.
The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on
the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer
will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing
it.
So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy
one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion
only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still
obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.
One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price
of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a
non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:36:10 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage By
Chris Demorro
To: Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Electric Vehicle
Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
If all be true then the only hope for man is to stop breeding and
start walking. No clothing, No nothing but bare butt. No fires
allowed nor are any tools of any kind. That would not be
environmentally sound practice. Leave no dukie and don't leave any
stone turned over. Turn it back if you move it.
: )
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:40:41 -0900
From: "m gol" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage By
Chris Demorro
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Here's the link to dust to dust:
http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/
I think once they start using the lithium in the hybrids, the arguments are
not as strong.
Lithium has a very low melting point, and so it should cost less energy to
produce. I hope the reliance on Nickel is just a transition phase they
needed to go through to get the technology out there.
On Jan 3, 2008 9:36 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If all be true then the only hope for man is to stop breeding and
> start walking. No clothing, No nothing but bare butt. No fires
> allowed nor are any tools of any kind. That would not be
> environmentally sound practice. Leave no dukie and don't leave any
> stone turned over. Turn it back if you move it.
>
> : )
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:42:15 -0900
From: "m gol" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] cut once?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Before I start cutting...
I have one of those "T" battery boxes for the rear of a geo metro.
Similiar to this one:
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/mtboxrak.shtml#metro
Does they the T go in with the skinner part in the rear?
thanks
Mike
Fairbanks, AK
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 20:38:28 +0200
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage By
Chris Demorro
To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Electric Vehicle
Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Jan 3, 2008 8:21 PM, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I got this from the ET list. I can't imagine these figures are correct.
> Lawrence Rhodes..
>
> Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage By Chris Demorro
> Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" [EMAIL PROTECTED] cleannewworld
> Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 1:25 pm ((PST))
For chrissakes, this "story" has been debunked six ways to sunday many
times over. Its a recitation of their "dust to dust study", now
commonly known as "dust to dumb"
Do a google on "CNW Marketing debunked" or see here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNW_Marketing_Research#Controversy
The harm, however is done. Ive heard it back several times from people
getting their news from tabloids and local media only. Its nice and
sensationalist for media to report a story like that around in
practically any type of mainstream publication, but nobody ever
bothers to publish rational analysis and corrections afterwards, and
if they do nobody ever reads it. So whoever paid CNW got their moneys
worth.
-kert
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 12:03:53 -0700
From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Wonderful NEDRA write-up (was: "Good faith")
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
The write-up on the NEDRA page would be just perfect for you to put
up on your home page Dennis.
Take a look: http://www.nedra.com/
It has all the facts about you setting the new record, (and there is
no need to mention any other competitor.)
I don't think that NEDRA would object to you using their write-up if
you gave them credit for the story.
Simple simple.
Bill Dube'
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:05:52 -0700
From: Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage By
Chris Demorro
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:21:28 -0800, "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I got this from the ET list. I can't imagine these figures are correct.
> Lawrence Rhodes..
>
> Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage By Chris Demorro
> Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> cleannewworld
> Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 1:25 pm ((PST))
>
> (A good argument for solid state lithium-ion batteries, and 100% pure
> electric cars... Interesting this writer picked the xB as the least of all
> evil... that's what I drive. But then, Toyota in its grand wisdom, stopped
> making the version I own, transformed the new edition into a plain run of
> the mill SUV. Shame on them! Rem)
>
> Central Connecticut State University
> http://clubs.ccsu.edu/Recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188
>
> Editorial & Commentary
>
> March 7, 2007
> Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
> By Chris Demorro
> Staff Writer
>
> The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so
> environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show
> the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate
> 'green
> car' is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it
> takes
> more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.
>
> Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first
> understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular
> hybrid
> on the market, the Toyota Prius.
>
> The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76
> horsepower,
> 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered
> engine
> that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below
> 2000
> revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as
> it
> is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is
> where
> the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you,
> it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The
> battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the
> gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great
> energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?
>
> You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which
> netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51
> miles
> per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government
> realized
> how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds
> limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new
> tests
> which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with
> highway
> speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the
> Prius's EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the
> Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs
> less then half what the Prius costs.
>
> However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn't be writing
> this article. It gets much worse.
>
> Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer
> that
> is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the
> Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is
> mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so
> much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has
> used
> the 'dead zone' around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the
> plant is devoid of any life for miles.
>
> The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius' battery and
> Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the
> plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming
> every environmentalist's nightmare.
>
> "The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and
> the
> soil slid down off the hillside," said Canadian Greenpeace
> energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a
> British-based newspaper.
>
> All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to
> make a hybrid doesn't end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous
> plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery
> in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce 'nickel
> foam.' From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are
> shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip
> required
> to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less
> like
> environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?
>
> Wait, I haven't even got to the best part yet.
>
> When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build
> a
> Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50
> percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius's arch nemesis.
>
> Through a study by CNW Marketing called "Dust to Dust," the total combined
> energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials
> (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected
> lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven
> over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.
>
> The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put
> on
> the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer
> will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy
> doing
> it.
>
> So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy
> one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion
> only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still
> obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.
>
> One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price
> of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a
> non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Wow, Toyota really is taking a huge loss on the Prius then.
$3.25 per mile over 100,000 mile is obviously $325,000.00
Subtract the cost of fuel
100,000m / 55mpg / * 3.3$pg = $6000.00
325,000 - 6000 = $319,000 to manufacture/dispose of
Selling for ~24,000 -> $295,000 loss.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"If you don't "believe" you'll make a difference, then you probably never
will!" -- Jim Husted
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 13:10:05 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Effects of UNDERcharging LiFe4Po batteries?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
As far as I know, undercharging them just reduces capacity for that
cycle; it won't harm the cells.
I'm basing this on "regular" LiCoO2 cells; for them, storage at high
SOC ages cells faster; the lower the SOC, the slower they age, down to
an optimal storage SOC of 40%.
If this holds over to LiFePO4, your cells may actually be better off
being undercharged (at a penalty to range).
-Morgan LaMoore
On Jan 3, 2008 9:02 AM, Richard Acuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I am curious if anyone has any data on the effect or consequence of slightly
> UNDERcharging Lithium batteries. I am accepting wild theories, anecdotal
> evidence and tribal knowledge at this time. At the moment, I have no printed
> literature from any vendors to refer to. When I get closer to an actual
> purchase, I will dig deeper and make contact with the vendors.
>
> The reason I ask this, is because I'm wondering if it's possible to use a
> cheaper system of battery regs instead of a BMS OR run without any sort of
> BMS is I run the batteries within a narrower window between the
> minimum/maximum voltages specified by the vendor.
>
> Based on one vendor I looked at a while back (and lost the documentation
> for), I'd need about 40 units to build a pack. I was thinking that it might
> be possible to charge/discharge between a narrower, safe window during the
> week and equalize individually on the weekend. At least until I could afford
> the real BMS. However, if not fully charging these batteries is harmful then
> the plan is moot.
>
> What say you?
> "Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his own brow? No, says the man in
> Washington. It belongs to the poor.No, says the man in the Vatican. It
> belongs to God.No, says the man in Moscow. It belongs to everyone." Rich
> A.Marylandhttp://www.austinev.org/evalbum/371.html
> _________________________________________________________________
> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
> http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 13:40:10 -0600
From: "henry buehler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Regen efficiency. Hard numbers. And happy new year
to all EVDListers !
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
hydraulic regenerative braking
http://www.designnews.com/article/CA220671.html
june 17 2002
on an electric vehical this would be a new concept.
a lot of added weight. unless it replaces capacitors or extra battery for
regeneration.
On 1/3/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> So in other words, Regen is very good in stop and go situations and
> for stopping your heavy lead sled. If nothing else it is a good
> safety benefit. Capturing some energy back while stopping is a side
> benefit. A nice one.
>
> : )
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
EV@lists.sjsu.edu
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
End of EV Digest, Vol 6, Issue 10
*********************************
