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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Motor coupler issues / was Looking for a Conversion Kit
for a 1929 Ford. (Marty Hewes)
2. Re: Motor Idea (Marty Hewes)
3. Re: TS chemistry Was A123 chem, and alota Other Stuff (Bob Rice)
4. Re: Couple needed for a L91 (Eduardo Kaftanski)
5. Re: Better Emergency Brake
(Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G)
6. Re: Motor Idea (Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G)
7. Re: Motor Idea (Tim Humphrey)
8. Re: Motor Idea (Marty Hewes)
9. Motor coupler issues / was Looking for a> Conversion Kit for
a 1929 Ford. (Marvin Campbell)
10. Re: TS and alota Other Stuff (Lee Hart)
11. Re: Motor Idea (Lee Hart)
12. Re: commuting costs (Lee Hart)
13. Re: EV World Article on PIR race (KillaCycle mostly) (Dave Cover)
14. Here's a whacky air conditioner idea... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
15. Re: Better Emergency Brake (Dave Cover)
16. Re: commuting costs (Lee Hart)
17. Re: Motor coupler issues / was Looking for a Conversion Kit
for a 1929 Ford. (MIKE WILLMON)
18. Re: Better Emergency Brake (TrotFox Greyfoot)
19. Re: Motor coupler issues / was Looking for a Conversion Kit
for a 1929 Ford. (Tim Humphrey)
20. Need copper bar stock (Dave Cover)
21. Re: Need copper bar stock (Greg Owen)
22. Re: Need copper bar stock (Jeff Major)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 09:01:44 -0500
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor coupler issues / was Looking for a
Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Actually that's the biggest reason I was thinking a flanged shaft would be
cool. I'm hearing too many differing opinions about the best way to couple
to the shaft. Electro Automotive says taper lock is the only way to go,
taper lock says no? I'll have to look at their specs again, if I recall,
they're all in inch pounds. Is foot pounds simply inch pounts/12? On the
other hand, I doubt I'll see 250 foot pounds on the street with a single
motor and batteries I can afford, much less 500.
Another question, if I have a taper lock coupler made that accurately
emulates a Chevy crankshaft, and puts the pilot bushing correctly recessed
into the coupler, not drilled into the motor shaft, it will be long, with
the flywheel mounting surface a ways from the end of the motor output shaft.
Can a taper lock be counted on to hold alignment well enough that this will
not pose alignment, runout and balance issues?
Back to dual motors and monster torque, what kind of coupler is on the
business end of White Zombie? Has it been a problem? This looks like a
reason to consider a setup like Otmar's 914 with the two motor's DE's belted
together so the output shaft diameter doesn't end up being on the small side
for the torque of two motors physically in series, although I'm not crazy
about the side loads that may produce. Makes me want to take a look at the
chain drive setup on the output end of 500 cubes in the 70's Eldorados, or
the gear train used to drive the front drive shaft in a Dana 20 transfer
case. The Dana 20 has an input gear from the trans, an output gear for the
front drive shaft, and an idler in between. Might be able to put a motor
where the trans belongs, a motor where the front drive shaft belongs, and
take the output off the idler.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "MIKE WILLMON" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor coupler issues / was Looking for a Conversion Kit
for a 1929 Ford.
> If you're talking to Mike Willmon, mine are interference fit - heated and
> pressed on per Jim Husted.
> The engineers at Dodge said that 500 ft-lbs was outside the spec for that
> size Taper-Lock. The problem being that the small (M6 I think, may be
> wrong) hardware could not take the torque to provide adequate suck in
> pressure on the taper lock bushing.
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, Ak.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Shanab
>>
>> Are your couplers taper lock?
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 09:18:23 -0500
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I think you just re-invented a Corvette or Jaguar rear end :).
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
>I would think it would be easier to just make a bracket for a regular 9"
> ford axle and just stub it off without axle tubes. Just make the axle
> tubes 3 inches or so and weld the flanges close to the pumpkin. Then
> attach CV axles to the flanges. That way you wouldn't need to
> manufacture all sorts of parts for the HT60E and the aftermarket for a
> 9" is HUGE. Also the ford differential is extremely strong and there
> are positraction units available for it. You could either mount the
> electric motor directly to the pinion or mount it above the pintion and
> connect them with a chain.
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:37:01 -0400
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] TS chemistry Was A123 chem, and alota Other Stuff
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 1:01 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] TS chemistry Was A123 chem
> That's right. Why bother to report some tests results on EVDL
> or indicate how cheap they are then? How given cells actually
> perform and cost makes NO difference if no one is going to buy
> them. And, given circumstances, no one really should.
> If you do, you encourage company keep doing what they are doing,
> giving them the message there is nothing wrong here, business as
> usual. If money keep flowing in, why bother to change anything.
>
> Victor
Hi Victor an" EVerybody;
China is gunna have to clean up their act! They are gettuing away with
selling so much unsafe crap(food) here that even the dumb Anerican Sheeple
will wake up and quit buying their shit. IF this happens they will clean up
their act? If loosing their biggest customers doesn't change thing? EVer try
buying something at Targets oe Wal*Marts that ISN'T made in China? Good
ruck! That goes for Harbor Fright, too! I have gotten decent Chinese stuff
there. Buyt the Toyo Tires ya think would be made in Japan? Nope! China! At
least my Nokians were made in Finland, sed so, right on them! So THERE a
Nobody tells a Major Power to Clean up their Act<g>!Only on Line in the USA!
Good on ya, Jukka! IF you can get Thunder Sky to clean up their act. I
think you have that in mind?We NEED a power source that will be competitive
with Led Acid. Gees! Have ya priced a battery pak TODAY? Gpt a quote for
Rolls T -90 equilivent, thicker plates MAY last [EMAIL PROTECTED] EACH in
quantity.
I need about 40 for Dave's truck and my Sentra.A Pallot would be nice about
40? ANYBODY anywhere doing less than a hundred bux for T105 Equilivents?
Fess up!
Just got off the fone with my local distibuter(Trojan, Mass) Are ya
sitting down? T-105's- 155.19, T- 125's -181.46, and (Forgetaboutit!)
T-145's 236.90!!!!!!!!!!!!! He has No Name equilivents at T-105- 121.94 A
T-125 at 142.27. Same One Year Gaurantee.But I just got off the horn with my
local Interstate dealer. He has US 2200's for 85, WITH the 15 core charge or
100 bux Without a dead badd-ery. Sheesh! I wish I hadn't taken a load down
to the Junk Yard in New Haven and got 5 bux or LESS I don't remember, but
they gave my 3-4 bux , ANY battery, VW to Golf Cart! One thing ALL the
battery folks tell me" Buy NOW!" we will be getting a price increase, end of
the month"FEH! They wern't kidding! So my local guy, no shipping charge? Is
best price NO brake on, say a pallot load.
Guyz this is highway robbery! Whatthehell, with the number of battery
builders countable on the fingers of one hand, they can do what they like,
price wise, I;, mnot even mentioning the Opyimas and sealed units of that
type. Just crappy, entry level, training wheels, type dumb Golf Carts!
Sigh!To get the "Good Stuff" as NAPA is talking about on the Radio, ya gotta
dig deep!Another Chinese conspirisy here. To make lead a precious metal, as
they know WE in USA don't mine lead any more the Eco Nazis shut down the
mines, years ago. WHY the junked battery flow won't even keep close to the
EV demand? In these daze of 3 bux a gal gas, I can assume it works the same
way with batteries. EV's use a LOT of batteries! I know a battery guy here
that USED to make his own, assemble then in CT. The Eco Nazis shut him down
YEARS ago, TOOK his machinery even! I was sniffing around, for a local
builder of batteries. Hah! Good luck! We don't MAKE stuff here anymore.
I sure hope Jukka can get Thunder Sky to clean up their act?It will be
anarchy here, battery wise, the Chinese will own the market. Just hope they
will make decent ones. It took Toyota and Honda, VW and others to get
Detroit to clean up their automotive act!. Chinese cars are on the way. Hope
some will be decent, we don't NEED any more NEV's. A China Job you can drive
on the freeway, dignity intact, like an EV -1 or Rav-4? By then I may have
my Sunrise already, or Freedom?I'll just get a bigger garage<g>!With the
wierd and wonderful, whimsicle Chinese passion for Names of stuff, (Thunder
Sky) a CAR should be interesting. "Joyfull Messenger" was one that comes to
mind. Howbout Blue Sky batteries?
Well, not the Joyfull Messenger with badd-ery priceds today.
Seeya
Bob
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:13:15 -0400
From: Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Couple needed for a L91
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 06:46:50PM -0400, Eduardo Kaftanski wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 03:08:56PM -0700, Mark Eidson wrote:
> > I bought the coupler for my L91-4003 from McMaster-Carr page 992
> > http://www.mcmaster.com/
> > It was a Quick disconnect keyed bushing to belt drive sprocket. me
>
> GREAT!
>
> I am impressed on whats avaliable.
>
> Many thanks.
>
ok. I shouted eureka too fast. My order was cancelled because I am
not in the US, although my shipping address is, due to the latest
increase in US export regulations. What harm would a US$20 piece of
metal do to national security it beyond me...
I'll have to get a friend to buy it for me and then send it.
gr.
--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | I'm white and nerdy
http://ev.nn.cl | Weird Al
|
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:23:41 -0400
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Not necessarily. That theory definitely holds true if the differential is an
open carrier. If it is a locker or a posi then it will hold just fine. You
also get the added benefit of a pinion brake of the multiplication the ring and
pinion assembly provides. Pinion brakes are much more powerful than a drum
brake assembly. That is why you see them used a lot in the monster truck
world.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Cover
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:46
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
Don't forget, any brake on the motor or drive shaft is not safe if there is a
differential between the brake and the tires. If one wheel looses traction
(resting on sand, ice, etc.) the vehicle can roll.
Dave Cover
--- "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You could have another taperlock adapter made for the front of a motor
> and use a disc brake caliper setup for a lawn tractor. They are about 5
> inches in diameter and clamp using a cable.
> I have also seen instances where people modify a disc brake to mount
> on the snout of the axle pinion and actuate with a cable.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of David Brandt
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 18:44
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
>
> Hi, Mark. I think the problem is that disc calipers take a bunch of
> pressure to actuate, so the parking brake cable only works so-so. It
> is also this way on my Fiero. We'll have to wait and see how well the
> wilwood brakes John W. is going to use work.
>
> If you are looking to upgrade, check out the rear disc brakes from a
> late 80's-early 90'2 daytona or laser. They had a small drum brake on
> the back just for the parking brake, and a main disc that only activated
> under the hydraulic pressure.
>
>
>
>
>
> David Brandt
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2007 1:52:15 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
>
>
> Hi,
>
> With the usual problemn of an EV gaining weight and still wanting
> braking safety, I'm curious if there is a good way to get better emergency
> braking.
> It seams like on a rear disc brake, the emergency brake handle just slows the
> vehicle down.
> This is what happens on my E-Porsche and our diesel Beetle with rear
> disc brakes. I remember with my Electro-Metro which had
> *drum* rear brakes, I could lock up the rear wheels with the emergency brake
> handle.
>
> Is there a way to improve emergency braking if the main brakes fail?
> Or is that just an inherent problem with rear disc brakes?
>
> have a renewable energy day,
> Mark
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Messenger Caf? - open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily.
> Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ______________ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small
> Business gives you all the tools to get online.
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:28:16 -0400
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Yes but those are in short supply and cost huge bucks. You can buy a
ford 9" from the junkyard for $75 and cut and reweld the axle tubes
yourself. Then call Moser Engineering and give them the axle length and
they will make them for you for $150 a pair. You can also have them
make brand new axles for you with the flange pattern of the CV axles for
$100 more.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marty Hewes
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 10:18
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
I think you just re-invented a Corvette or Jaguar rear end :).
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
>I would think it would be easier to just make a bracket for a regular
9"
> ford axle and just stub it off without axle tubes. Just make the axle
> tubes 3 inches or so and weld the flanges close to the pumpkin. Then
> attach CV axles to the flanges. That way you wouldn't need to
> manufacture all sorts of parts for the HT60E and the aftermarket for a
> 9" is HUGE. Also the ford differential is extremely strong and there
> are positraction units available for it. You could either mount the
> electric motor directly to the pinion or mount it above the pintion
and
> connect them with a chain.
>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 9:50:08 -0600
From: Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
To: EV <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 11:28 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
>
> Yes but those are in short supply and cost huge bucks. You can buy a
> ford 9" from the junkyard for $75 and cut and reweld the axle tubes
> yourself. Then call Moser Engineering and give them the axle length and
> they will make them for you for $150 a pair. You can also have them
> make brand new axles for you with the flange pattern of the CV axles for
> $100 more.
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
Cougar, Thunderbird, Any 4x4 with independent front suspension?
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:04:49 -0500
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Good thought, most 1/2 ton 4x4 pickups are independant front suspension
these days. Some SUV's have independant rears also. They would also have
mounts. Rears would be more likely to have a factory limited slip. Honda
comes to mind for a lightweight, or Ford for a heavy but strong one. I'd
look around for something with an aluminum case to save weight. In a 4x4,
the front end would probably turn the opposite direction from a rear end,
and might be running on the wrong side of the gear teeth if used in the
rear.
On the 9", you may be able to get the original axles cut and resplined
cheaper. Some of the Jeepers do that.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
>
>
>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
>> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 11:28 AM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
>>
>> Yes but those are in short supply and cost huge bucks. You can buy a
>> ford 9" from the junkyard for $75 and cut and reweld the axle tubes
>> yourself. Then call Moser Engineering and give them the axle length and
>> they will make them for you for $150 a pair. You can also have them
>> make brand new axles for you with the flange pattern of the CV axles for
>> $100 more.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>
> Cougar, Thunderbird, Any 4x4 with independent front suspension?
>
> --
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> I-5, Blossvale NY
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:03:57 -0700
From: Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Motor coupler issues / was Looking for a> Conversion
Kit for a 1929 Ford.
To: EV Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
I can't believe it took me 46 years, moving to LA, and reading the EV
Discussion List to get the connection between, "wallered" and "wallowed".
Oh well. I AM from Arkansas.
Simply amazing the things you learn on this list...
--
MarvyMarv
aka
Mo'Nilla
"- Damer liker smarte menn. Og smarte menn kj?rer jo elbil,
understreker han." -Ladies like smart men and smart men drive electric
cars.
www.PlugInAmerica.com
> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:45:38 -0400
> From: "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor coupler issues / was Looking for a>
> Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Oddly, when machining, hogging refers to taking a heavy (deep) cut
> with whatever machine you're using to form the metal. It's less
> accurate but does not refer to the same thing as wallering.
>
> Wallering is just the way we hillbillies were reared to say
> wallowed... which is what bacon does before it's edible. } ; ]
>
> Trot, the amature-machinist, fox...
>
> On 8/9/07, Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> but you know it's just hogging out those keyways.
>>
>> It's funny how technical terms are different in different parts of the
>> country. Where I'm from, the term is "wallered".
>>
>> As in: "That thing weren't tight enough, and it done wallered out that round
>> hole to an oval".
>>
>> It's easy to see the hog connection- they're certainly good at enlarging
>> holes. I have no idea where "wallered" came from.
>> --
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:25:58 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] TS and alota Other Stuff
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Bob Rice wrote:
> Good on ya, Jukka! IF you can get Thunder Sky to clean up their act.
> I think you have that in mind? We NEED a power source that will be
> competitive with Led Acid.
Let's hope so! Chinese businesses deliver only as much quality and
performance as their customers demands. If their customer is a US
company that only demands low price -- then he gets no performance and
no quality.
The situation won't change until US consumers have the backbone to say,
"This is junk! I demand a product that works, or my money back!"
> ANYBODY anywhere doing less than a hundred bux for T105 Equilivents?
Sam's Club still has Exides for about $75 each. They are not as good a
battery as the Trojans or USBs, but OK for a learner pack.
> Guyz this is highway robbery! Whatthehell, with the number of battery
> builders countable on the fingers of one hand, they can do what they
> like, price wise, I'm not even mentioning the Olympics and sealed
> units of that type. Just crappy, entry level, training wheels, type
> dumb Golf Carts!
Remember "A Christmas Car", the story I wrote about ten years ago, in
which the oil industry was buying up all the alternative battery
technologies, and getting lead banned as a dangerous toxin to get all
the hopeful EV batteries off the market? Sometimes truth is stranger
than fiction! :-(
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:36:31 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
From: Dewey, Jody R
>> I would think it would be easier to just make a bracket for a
>> regular 9" ford axle and just stub it off without axle tubes. Just
>> make the axle tubes 3 inches or so and weld the flanges close to
>> the pumpkin. Then attach CV axles to the flanges. That way you
>> wouldn't need to manufacture all sorts of parts for the HT60E and
>> the aftermarket for a 9" is HUGE. Also the Ford differential is
>> extremely strong and there are positraction units available for it.
>> You could either mount the electric motor directly to the pinion...
Marty Hewes wrote:
> I think you just re-invented a Corvette or Jaguar rear end :).
Not quite; he's describing the 1989-1997 Ford Thunderbird / Mercury
Cougar rear end. We're using in the Sunrise II. We flip the differential
upside down, and directly couple the electric motor to the pinion,
behind the rear axle, to add ground clearance and make room for
batteries in the center. But you could mount it normally, with the motor
connected by a drive shaft wherever there's room.
The T-bird rear end has separate upper and lower suspension arms; it
does not use the axles as a load-carrying member; . I think the Corvette
and Jaguar do. This put a lot more load on the axle bearings and CV joints.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:58:02 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] commuting costs
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Tim Humphrey wrote:
> Lee, do you have a file that you pull all of these quotes from? If
> so, I'd like a copy.
I glean 'em from all over the place. I attached a few files with them
that I have on my computer. Others are from books, or calendars, and
various other printed sources.
> I'm not saying that I need a different quote line ;-)
Actually, I'm flattered that anyone would want to quote me!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:14:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV World Article on PIR race (KillaCycle mostly)
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
--- Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Current pack: 990 cells. 110 in series, 9 in
> parallel. Previous pack: 880 cells. 110 in series, 8
> in parallel.
Sorry to be dumb, but is it 9 strings of 110 cells? Or is it 9 cells to a pack,
110 packs in
series?
Is the BMS at a cell level? Has there been any attempt to see how the idividual
cells are doing?
Have there been enough cycles to see if cell voltages are starting to wander?
Longing for lithium in CT,
Dave Cover
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:16:18 -0400
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] Here's a whacky air conditioner idea...
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,292809,00.html
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:27:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Don't lockup differentials rely on the power delivered to lock up. I know if I
have a rear wheel
off the ground with my truck, I can spin it by hand, and it does have a locking
differential. Same
with my 944. Relying on a lock up differential to hold your car doesn't seem
safe. And how many
vehicles have this feature? Probably less than you think.
--- "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not necessarily. That theory definitely holds true if the differential is an
> open carrier. If
> it is a locker or a posi then it will hold just fine. You also get the added
> benefit of a
> pinion brake of the multiplication the ring and pinion assembly provides.
> Pinion brakes are
> much more powerful than a drum brake assembly. That is why you see them used
> a lot in the
> monster truck world.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Cover
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:46
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
>
> Don't forget, any brake on the motor or drive shaft is not safe if there is a
> differential
> between the brake and the tires. If one wheel looses traction (resting on
> sand, ice, etc.) the
> vehicle can roll.
>
> Dave Cover
>
> --- "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > You could have another taperlock adapter made for the front of a motor
> > and use a disc brake caliper setup for a lawn tractor. They are about 5
> > inches in diameter
> and clamp using a cable.
> > I have also seen instances where people modify a disc brake to mount
> > on the snout of the axle pinion and actuate with a cable.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of David Brandt
> > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 18:44
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
> >
> > Hi, Mark. I think the problem is that disc calipers take a bunch of
> > pressure to actuate, so the parking brake cable only works so-so. It
> > is also this way on my Fiero. We'll have to wait and see how well the
> > wilwood brakes John W.
> is going to use work.
> >
> > If you are looking to upgrade, check out the rear disc brakes from a
> > late 80's-early 90'2 daytona or laser. They had a small drum brake on
> > the back just for the parking brake, and a main disc that only activated
> > under the hydraulic
> pressure.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > David Brandt
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2007 1:52:15 PM
> > Subject: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > With the usual problemn of an EV gaining weight and still wanting
> > braking safety, I'm curious if there is a good way to get better emergency
> > braking.
> > It seams like on a rear disc brake, the emergency brake handle just slows
> > the vehicle down.
> > This is what happens on my E-Porsche and our diesel Beetle with rear
> > disc brakes. I remember with my Electro-Metro which had
> > *drum* rear brakes, I could lock up the rear wheels with the emergency
> > brake handle.
> >
> > Is there a way to improve emergency braking if the main brakes fail?
> > Or is that just an inherent problem with rear disc brakes?
> >
> > have a renewable energy day,
> > Mark
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Messenger Caf? - open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served
> > daily.
> > Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > ______________ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small
> > Business gives you all the tools to get online.
> > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 12:26:54 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] commuting costs
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Lee Hart wrote:
> Tim Humphrey wrote:
>> Lee, do you have a file that you pull all of these quotes from? If
>> so, I'd like a copy.
>
> I glean 'em from all over the place. I attached a few files with them
> that I have on my computer. Others are from books, or calendars, and
> various other printed sources.
>
>> I'm not saying that I need a different quote line ;-)
>
> Actually, I'm flattered that anyone would want to quote me!
Sorry gang; I got bit by the new EVDL listserver again. I see "From: Tim
Humphrey" so I think it is from him. But when I hit "Reply" it goes to
the EVDL, because Tim sent it through the EVDL, not directly.
At least we know that attachments are now being properly stripped.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 09:26:53 -0800
From: MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor coupler issues / was Looking for a
Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
The Dodge R16 Series 'Taper-Lock' Rigid hub is rated for 5050 in-lbs (420
ft-lbs) at 4965 RPM and weighs 8 lbs. Thats very slightly under the 500 ft-lbs
and 5500 RPM I may expect to see. Although I'm hoping to limit RPM at 5000.
Now the Dodge 1.0 series Rigid Gear Coupler is rated for 7500 in-lbs (625
ft-lbs) at 6000 RPM and weighs 9 lbs. This is just over my requirements which
is a safe place to be.
Now for my daily driver that may never even see 300 ft-lbs and is absolutely
limited to 5000 RPM (typically never even sees 4000 RPM) the Taper-Lock hub
adapter is no doubt an acceptable way to go. Even Dodge would agree. However
when I told them I was doing a dragster and would expect to see 500 hard ft-lbs
dropped on the coupler between the motors they steered me away from the
Taper-Lock. They said it would absolutely hold the 300 ft-lbs, but the suck
down bolts that pull in the tapered bushing weren't strong enough to put enough
pressure to hold 500 ft-lbs. They said the bushing would probably slip and
rely too much on the key to hold.
The nice thing about the Taper-Lock is that its is easy to remove.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: Marty Hewes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, August 10, 2007 6:17 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor coupler issues / was Looking for a Conversion Kit
for a 1929 Ford.
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Actually that's the biggest reason I was thinking a flanged shaft
> would be
> cool. I'm hearing too many differing opinions about the best way
> to couple
> to the shaft. Electro Automotive says taper lock is the only way
> to go,
> taper lock says no? I'll have to look at their specs again, if I
> recall,
> they're all in inch pounds. Is foot pounds simply inch pounts/12?
> On the
> other hand, I doubt I'll see 250 foot pounds on the street with a
> single
> motor and batteries I can afford, much less 500.
>
> Another question, if I have a taper lock coupler made that
> accurately
> emulates a Chevy crankshaft, and puts the pilot bushing correctly
> recessed
> into the coupler, not drilled into the motor shaft, it will be
> long, with
> the flywheel mounting surface a ways from the end of the motor
> output shaft.
> Can a taper lock be counted on to hold alignment well enough that
> this will
> not pose alignment, runout and balance issues?
>
> Back to dual motors and monster torque, what kind of coupler is on
> the
> business end of White Zombie? Has it been a problem? This looks
> like a
> reason to consider a setup like Otmar's 914 with the two motor's
> DE's belted
> together so the output shaft diameter doesn't end up being on the
> small side
> for the torque of two motors physically in series, although I'm not
> crazy
> about the side loads that may produce. Makes me want to take a
> look at the
> chain drive setup on the output end of 500 cubes in the 70's
> Eldorados, or
> the gear train used to drive the front drive shaft in a Dana 20
> transfer
> case. The Dana 20 has an input gear from the trans, an output gear
> for the
> front drive shaft, and an idler in between. Might be able to put a
> motor
> where the trans belongs, a motor where the front drive shaft
> belongs, and
> take the output off the idler.
>
> Marty
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MIKE WILLMON" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor coupler issues / was Looking for a
> Conversion Kit
> for a 1929 Ford.
>
>
> > If you're talking to Mike Willmon, mine are interference fit -
> heated and
> > pressed on per Jim Husted.
> > The engineers at Dodge said that 500 ft-lbs was outside the spec
> for that
> > size Taper-Lock. The problem being that the small (M6 I think,
> may be
> > wrong) hardware could not take the torque to provide adequate
> suck in
> > pressure on the taper lock bushing.
> >
> > Mike,
> > Anchorage, Ak.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jeff Shanab
> >>
> >> Are your couplers taper lock?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:57:35 -0400
From: "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Dave,
It all depends on what variety of diff. you have. A true locker will
usually have some variety of power to keep it locked. However, if you
have a Torsen that's a whole different ball of wax. Also, a
posi-track rear uses spring-loaded clutches instead of gears to get
the job done.
So the answer is... Maybe?
Trot, the never-simple, fox...
On 8/10/07, Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Don't lockup differentials rely on the power delivered to lock up. I know if
> I have a rear wheel
> off the ground with my truck, I can spin it by hand, and it does have a
> locking differential. Same
> with my 944. Relying on a lock up differential to hold your car doesn't seem
> safe. And how many
> vehicles have this feature? Probably less than you think.
--
| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
| >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 12:09:44 -0600
From: Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor coupler issues / was Looking for a
Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.
To: EV <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Behalf Of MIKE WILLMON
However when I told them I was doing a dragster and would
> expect to see 500 hard ft-lbs dropped on the coupler between the motors
> they steered me away from the Taper-Lock. >
> Mike,
> Anchorage, Ak.
Here's an area I know nothing about....
Will there really be 500ftlbs on the coupler BETWEEEN the motors?
If one arm is producing 500 ft-lbs AND the other arm is producing 500 ft-lbs,
the coupler will see ZERO won't it?
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:26:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Need copper bar stock
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I've been hunting around my area for some copper bar stock and can't find
anything. The local
dealer I bought from no longer carries it. Someone on the list was able to help
me out before, but
I can't remmeber who it was.
I need two sizes. I'm not sure what is available, but here are the sizes I'm
shooting for.
First is .75" x .125" x 16" (three quarters of an inch by one eigth, sixteen
inches long)
I can't go a full inch wide but could go thicker. Just need to be able to put
some 90 degree bends
in it. It will end up C shaped. I need two of these.
Second is .5" x .1875" x 2" (half inch by three sixteenths, 2 inches long)
This one can also go thicker, no bending involved. I need three of these.
If anyone remembers selling me some copper and can do it again, send me a
price. If anyone knows
an online source that can supply small quantities, send me a link.
Thanks for your help
Dave Cover
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:33:32 -0400
From: Greg Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Need copper bar stock
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Dave Cover wrote:
> If anyone remembers selling me some copper and can do it again, send
> me a price. If anyone knows an online source that can supply small
> quantities, send me a link.
I was looking at online metal sources a month or so ago and I seem to
recall that the following both handled small quantities, and I see that
they both do list copper:
http://www.onlinemetals.com/
http://www.quickshipmetals.com/
Good luck.
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:51:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Need copper bar stock
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hi Dave,
I get my copper bar stock from McMaster-Carr. Check
them out. They ship fast. Usually next day.
Jeff
--- Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've been hunting around my area for some copper bar
> stock and can't find anything. The local
> dealer I bought from no longer carries it. Someone
> on the list was able to help me out before, but
> I can't remmeber who it was.
>
> I need two sizes. I'm not sure what is available,
> but here are the sizes I'm shooting for.
>
> First is .75" x .125" x 16" (three quarters of an
> inch by one eigth, sixteen inches long)
> I can't go a full inch wide but could go thicker.
> Just need to be able to put some 90 degree bends
> in it. It will end up C shaped. I need two of these.
>
> Second is .5" x .1875" x 2" (half inch by three
> sixteenths, 2 inches long)
> This one can also go thicker, no bending involved. I
> need three of these.
>
> If anyone remembers selling me some copper and can
> do it again, send me a price. If anyone knows
> an online source that can supply small quantities,
> send me a link.
>
> Thanks for your help
>
> Dave Cover
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End of EV Digest, Vol 1, Issue 27
*********************************
