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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Poor battery connections (Lee Hart)
2. Re: Drag coefficient, frontal area data? (Steve Peterson)
3. Re: Reaction time (was: Bill Dube nominated for (Lawrence Rhodes)
4. Electrathons on the Salt Flats (David Dymaxion)
5. Re: Reaction time (was: Bill Dube nominated for (Marty Hewes)
6. Re: Poor battery connections (Roger Stockton)
7. Re: Bill Dube nominated for Darwin Award. (Joe Smalley)
8. Wheel Alignment (Mark Hanson)
9. Re: Bill Dube nominated for Darwin Award. (Tom Shay)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 09:08:13 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Poor battery connections
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Al wrote:
> You would think by now that there would be a standardized reliable
> way to get a good high current connection to a lead acid battery.
There is! It's a welded connection. This is how the connections between
cells are made inside the battery, and how industrial batteries are
jumpered together.
Basically, you use a lead or lead-coated terminal or busbar. Place it on
the lead post of the battery, and quickly heat it with a torch so the
lead melts and flows together. Done right, it is very fast and reliable.
Obviously, it is intended to be permanent -- you won't cut it until the
battery is bad and needs replacement anyway.
> I decided to use the automotive tapered post type connector assuming
> it would have a lot more contact area. Apparently they do not.
There are *large* variations in quality and performance in automotive
post connectors. Most are cheap and of low quality, intended for mass
produced consumer products like automotive starting batteries, where
high currents are only drawn for a few seconds.
The worse of these seems to be the "emergency terminal", which is a cast
lead terminal with a bolt to tighten it around the post, and two more
bolts and a steel clamp to pinch a bare wire into a slot in the other end.
The best type are made of solid copper, tin or lead plated. The wire
crimps in with a large crimper.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 09:23:49 -0700
From: Steve Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Drag coefficient, frontal area data?
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Electric Vehicle Discussion List
<ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain
On Thu, 2007-09-20 at 11:09 -0500, Christopher Robison wrote:
> Is there a good resource, online or elsewhere, to look up the drag
> coefficient and frontal area of modern vehicles?
Not to my knowledge--I went down this path a while back and didn't find
much. Sometimes some of the car mags (Car&Driver, IIRC) have CdA numbers
in their full reviews, but they've only been doing that for a few years,
so there's a real gap in info between the mayfco.com and the car mag
stuff.
--Steve
> (Yes I already know
> about the mayfco.com list; it doesn't include any vehicles less than 10
> years old, and most are 15 or more years old). So far Google hasn't been
> helpful on half the cars I've tried to look up.
>
> Is this the kind of thing for which some kind of publication is
> available, that I might find in a library somewhere? I'd even be willing
> to pay a reasonable amount for ongoing access to this kind of
> information, if it's kept up to date.
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 10:07:55 -0700
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Reaction time (was: Bill Dube nominated for
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
At many an EV EVent. Any Tom, Dick or Harry can get on and emachine of the
two wheeled kind and go flying over curbs. It happens every year at the EV
Meet in Palo Alto. Two years I saw a Raging Granny grab air after hitting a
curb. It was miracle she landed and stopped the scooter which was a full
size Vespa style heavy scooter with a large pack. More than one person got
skinned up. This year some dealers were asking for ID and an M2 to get on.
However I still saw some youngsters getting on. This should probably end.
ID and at least a M2 to get on a demo vehicle. I bet Bill Dube is thinking
about a valet mode for killa cycle right now. However as far as I am
concerned a vehicle like Killacycle shouldn't be neutered. You wouldn't do
that to a good horse unless it was a last resort. With the proper skill
Killacycle will be managable. Lawrence Rhodes........
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 10:41:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Electrathons on the Salt Flats
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Short story: Electrathon racers ran for the first time ever on the Salt Flats.
One went 86 mph, and another 89 mph! Very impressive!
I went to the Salt Flats "World of Speed." What a great time! Four
electrics, two of them Electrathons, ran this year, and some records
were set! Here is a web page I threw up with more details and
some pictures:
http://www.explodingdinosaurs.com/saltflats/2007worldofspeed
I have more stuff coming, like video of an electric bar stool setting a world
record, and more.
Here is the page showing electrathons are welcome and some rules:
http://www.saltflats.com/Electric%20Rules.html
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:58:57 -0500
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Reaction time (was: Bill Dube nominated for
To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Electric Vehicle
Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Interesting parallel. To drive in Sports Car Club of America races (not
Solo II), a racing license and safety equipment is required. Even the model
airplane guys need some sort of permit and insurance to use a public field.
Does NEDRA or NHRA have a driver licensing program? Does it require
maintaining appropriate insurance to keep the license? I don't know who
would be checking licenses before an exhibition, but it's a thought. If
Killacycle isn't licensed and insured for street use, then the "ride" was
illegal already if it was on a public street. I really don't think having
anyone out of control in public, be it Bill or a Granny on a moped is good
for the EV cause.
Oh, and I wouldn't take a high strung race horse into a public venue either
without it's hooves hobbled. Too bad you can't turn a thoroghbread into a
recreational ride and back again with the flip of a switch, maybe it could
be a dual purpose beast.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Reaction time (was: Bill Dube nominated for
> At many an EV EVent. Any Tom, Dick or Harry can get on and emachine of
> the
> two wheeled kind and go flying over curbs. It happens every year at the
> EV
> Meet in Palo Alto. Two years I saw a Raging Granny grab air after hitting
> a
> curb. It was miracle she landed and stopped the scooter which was a full
> size Vespa style heavy scooter with a large pack. More than one person
> got
> skinned up. This year some dealers were asking for ID and an M2 to get
> on.
> However I still saw some youngsters getting on. This should probably end.
> ID and at least a M2 to get on a demo vehicle. I bet Bill Dube is thinking
> about a valet mode for killa cycle right now. However as far as I am
> concerned a vehicle like Killacycle shouldn't be neutered. You wouldn't
> do
> that to a good horse unless it was a last resort. With the proper skill
> Killacycle will be managable. Lawrence Rhodes........
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:09:11 -0700
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Poor battery connections
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Al wrote:
> When I looked at the standard battery lug for use with Trojan
> universal posts, I notice the actual contact area is pretty small.
> I decided to use the automotive tapered post type connector
> assuming it would have alot more contact area. Apparently
> they do not..
Which type of post does your battery have? Most likely it is the LPT
style, as I believe that is now the most common standard on GC
batteries:
<http://www.trojan-battery.com/Products/TerminalsDiagram.aspx>
The portion of the terminal that looks like a tapered automotive post
terminal is much shorter than it needs to be, and I'm not even sure that
it is tapered properly to fit standard battery clamps properly (standard
automotive posts are tapered, and are different sizes for the positive
and negative posts).
The universal posts (UT), are full height tapered posts with a through
hole and flats on the sides to allow lugs to be bolted to their sides;
this doesn't sound like what you have.
> So, what type of connector are the guys pulling 1000 amps using?
Standard automotive posts; AP on the Trojan battery types page. Trojan
states they are available on their flooded GC batteries, though you may
have difficulty getting a loacl distributor to supply you batteries with
them (probably special order).
The L terminal (LT) is another popular option on floodeds in EV use as
it offers lots of contact area for the lug and uses a through bolt to
secure the lug to the termainal.
Some of the high-performance AGMs such as Hawker/Odyssey typically come
with the threaded insert ("button", or BTN on the Trojan page) type of
terminal, and this is also good for high currents. The button terminal
differs from the threaded posts on flooded GC batteries in that it is
not a lead post and so the bolt can be tightened securely without fear
of lead creep and loosening over time (of course, the bolt is typically
6mm (about 1/4") vs the 5/16" or 3/8" threaded studs commonly on
floodeds.
Regardless of the type of terminal on the battery, it is important to
use good quality terminals on your cables. This is probably more so
with the automotive clamps than with lugs. I believe the benchmark is
probably the MagnaLugs, such as are sold by EV suppliers such as EV
Parts. Both the lug and clamp type are solid copper and crimp securely
to the cables and mate properly with the battery terminals.
If you've got the LPT type terminals on your batteries, your best option
may be to switch your cables to the lug type connectors and bolt them
down securely using Belleville spring washers under the nuts to keep
pressure applied as the connection loosens over time. Check them for
tightness periodically.
Something you might try if you don't want to remake your cables is to
tighten the clamps securely to the stubby posts and then use a flat
washer, lock washer and nut on the threaded post to apply downward
pressure on the battery clamp as well.
Cheers,
Roger.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 00:11:41 -0700
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bill Dube nominated for Darwin Award.
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
1. I'm glad Bill is recovering. He is very lucky, he does not have a head
injury. A helmet would have reduced his chances of head injury, but he was
lucky to not get knocked on the head.
2. I saw the video. When Bill sat on the seat during the burnout, I gasped
and thought to myself, "that front tire is going to slip and the bike is
going to move forward." It did. I have ridden enough bikes to have
experienced a burnout gone bad myself. It is a mistake you don't make twice.
3. I went to the mud drags last year. There was a blown alcohol Jeep that
ran about ~1.9 seconds down a 100 foot mud track. It exploded off the line
and the engine went dead at the finish line. There was a cord on the back of
the Jeep that was held by a crewman at the starting line. His job was to
keep the line out of the tires before the green light. He was also
responsible to pull the line and kill the Jeep if any thing went wrong. It
was there to make sure the Jeep did not run off the side or end of the track
and into the spectators. I doubt that it would be appropriate to kill a bike
at the end of a quarter mile drag race using a cord, but it would improve
safety in the bleach box.
4. Bill, Keep up the cutting edge technology experiments. When you are going
where no one has gone before, there are bound to be mistakes. Don't let the
nay sayers or critics get you down. What you are doing is making a lasting
impression on a lot of people that would not be interested if you were not
going so fast. You are making a difference. Thanks, Bill.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Former owner of 48 Volt Fiesta
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bill Dube nominated for Darwin Award.
> When this bike is capable of going something like 0-40 MPH in less time
than
> human reaction time, I think automatic shutoffs need to be considered.
> During burnouts anyplace but at a dragstrip, I really think there ought to
> be a weight on the ground with a cord to a Jet Ski type dead man's switch.
> If the bike moves more than a few feet, the switch should kill the motor
> faster than the rider can react. Let's face it, on a machine like this,
> there isn't time for concious thought even by a seasoned rider. If I were
> on it, and had to make a decision as to which kill switch to use, or
whether
> letting go of the front brake to turn the throttle back was a good idea,
> it'd all be over but the funeral by the time I took any action.
>
> Other thoughts, maybe a detector for rear brake application, or maybe a
> different front brake to be used during burnouts and staging, with the
> normal front brake as well as the rear brake immediately killing the
drive.
> I'd give some thought to what a rider might instintively do and use that
> input to shut down. Conscious thought is too slow and unpredictable.
>
> Marty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Derek Barger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 12:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bill Dube nominated for Darwin Award.
>
>
> > There is 3 different kill switches on the bike. Bill is always telling
> > me there is a 4th it is a thumb pushbutton that tells the zilla to
> > launch if you push that and the throttle is turned on at the same time
> > it should shutdown. I guess he forgot that it was right next to his
> > thumb on the throttle side.
> >
> > What I am not looking forward to is fixing the Killacycle it is going
> > to take alot of work. Does anyone think that this can be fixed in a
> > week?
> >
> > Derek Barger
> > KillaCycle Team
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/15/07, Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Sounds like Killacycle needs a thumb-activated kill switch. Maybe the
> >> stock
> >> "Start" button? That way, you can kill power without having to lift
off
> >> either brake.
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:29:17 -0400
From: Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Wheel Alignment
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi John etc,
To set toe in usually to 1/16" to 1/8" put a tape measure across the rear part
of the front wheels from the same center tread point on each tire. Compare
that to the front. Loosen the tie rod end clamps and adjust both exactly the
same 1/4 turn increments and recheck for a 1/16-1/8 differntial for less
measurement in the front. If you have outside scrub wear that can also be
camber and check on a flat concrete surface to see with a level that the top of
the tire isn't in from the bottom. Generally camber should be 0 unless your're
racing around corners and might want the bottom's kicked out a bit (negative
camber). Caster is like caster wheels on a grocery cart or a motorcycle rake
and is usually around 4-5 degrees for stable turning. Frame squareness usually
has to be checked by a *reputable* body shop. BTW, I didn't do to Porsche of
Roanoke because they were out of the way downtown on Franklin street but maybe
I should have. Anyway, now I know how to do it myself w!
hich is certainly easier/cheaper/better.
Have a renewable energy day,
Mark
_________________________________________________________________
Capture your memories in an online journal!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:54:14 -0700
From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bill Dube nominated for Darwin Award.
To: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Electric Vehicle Discussion
List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I wonder if it would be a good idea to attach a cable from the back of the
bike
to a truck during during off-track burnout demonstrations?
------------------------------
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End of EV Digest, Vol 2, Issue 52
*********************************
