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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Using a Unibody ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
2. Battery charging... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
3. Those Electric S-10's (again) .. most likely can never be
titled (Steve Powers)
4. Re: Motor Snap Krackle and Pop (Tom Shay)
5. Re: Those Electric S-10's (again) .. most likely can never be
titled (Lee Hart)
6. Re: Those Electric S-10's (again) .. most likely can never be
titled (Mike Chancey)
7. Re: Those Electric S-10's (again) .. most likely can never be
titled (Derek Barger)
8. Re: EV Bones (M. Barkley)
9. Finding a donor bug (was EV Bones) (Ben)
10. Re: Those Electric S-10's (again) .. most likely can never be
titled (Mike Chancey)
11. Re: Those Electric S-10's (again) .. most likely can never be
titled (robert harder)
12. Re: new battery break-in (storm connors)
13. Re: Bob Rice for NEDRA President (storm connors)
14. Re: Unattended charging ,Fun Stuff. (storm connors)
15. Re: Bob Rice for NEDRA President (Bob Rice)
16. Re: Someone please shoot this idea down (Hunter Cook)
17. Re: Tesla Motors article in Wall Street Journal 10-16-2007
(Evan Tuer)
18. Last gas powered ride (Eduardo Kaftanski)
19. Re: Hydrogen? and EVs (Richard Furniss)
20. Re: Hydrogen? and EVs (Richard Furniss)
21. Re: Using a Unibody, Comments (Bob Rice)
22. Quiet Vacuum Pump: CL-60 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
23. Re: new battery break-in (Roland Wiench)
24. Re: Hydrogen? and EVs (Peter VanDerWal)
25. Re: Quiet Vacuum Pump: CL-60 (Lee Hart)
26. David Roden (Tom S.)
27. Re: Tesla Motors article in Wall Street Journal 10-16-2007
(Myles Twete)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:37:50 -0400
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Using a Unibody
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
David,
"Basically, the Tropica was an updated Citicar." Oh please! Other than
having 4 wheels and Bob behind it there's no similarity at all.
Yes the chassis is heavy. No the steering isn't cable driven. It's
hydraulic. You can call either bizarre if you want to.
I own a Tropica and drive it every day. Yes it has it's issues, some
I've addressed and some I only dream of. In the mean time I just drive
it.
I do believe that Bill will have a heck of a time finding something to
fit that chassis. Building one may be a solution to taking the whole
front off the car to service the batteries.
Steve
Owner Tropica #16
On 17 Oct 2007 at 12:32, Bill Dennis wrote:
> Gee, Paul, thanks for the helpful response.
After Paul Compton wrote :
> > Why bother?
> >
> > The Tropica chassis is a heavy pile of crap.
> >
>
Actually, while it's probably not what you want to hear - you have a
chassis
you'd like to use - Paul's is probably more helpful advice than you
realize.
He might have phrased it more kindly, and it might be a slight
exaggeration, but I don't think he's far off the mark. The Tropica was
a
sexy looking EV but it had some flaws. It really >was< on the heavy
side.
Basically, the Tropica was an updated Citicar. The same person was
responsible for both. He certainly learned from his experiences with
the
Citicar - but I'm not sure he always learned the RIGHT lesson! Both
cars
were in some ways behind the times. From what I recall, the Citicar
used 20
year old suspension concepts when it was conceived in the early 1970s,
and
so did the Tropica when it was developed in the early 1990s.
Some of the Tropica's design was a result of Beaumont's emotional
(over-)
reaction to NHTSA's fines for the Citicar's non-compliance. Those fines
were a large part of what wrecked his first company, so who can blame
him?
That's the reason for the Tropica's bizarre cable-operated steering
system,
for example. The Citicar was popped for having a non-collapsable
steering
column. IIRC, in NHTSA's crash tests, it impaled the dummy. This sad
sequence of events is documented in the book "The Lost Cord." I have a
copy
somewhere around here, but I'll admit I didn't dig it up to check my
memory
on this.
Anyway, to come the the point - I wouldn't want to say that your
chassis
can't be used, but I'm not sure it's worth it. I think you'll put a lot
less effort into a more conventional conversion and probably have an EV
that's at least as practical. But I could be wrong; try it and see!
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator
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EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
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_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
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-----Original Message-----
From: David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 4:46 pm
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Using a Unibody
On 17 Oct 2007 at 12:32, Bill Dennis wrote:
> Gee, Paul, thanks for the helpful response.
After Paul Compton wrote :
> > Why bother?
> >
> > The Tropica chassis is a heavy pile of crap.
> >
>
Actually, while it's probably not what you want to hear - you have a
chassis
you'd like to use - Paul's is probably more helpful advice than you
realize.
He might have phrased it more kindly, and it might be a slight
exaggeration, but I don't think he's far off the mark. The Tropica was
a
sexy looking EV but it had some flaws. It really >was< on the heavy
side.
Basically, the Tropica was an updated Citicar. The same person was
responsible for both. He certainly learned from his experiences with
the
Citicar - but I'm not sure he always learned the RIGHT lesson! Both
cars
were in some ways behind the times. From what I recall, the Citicar
used 20
year old suspension concepts when it was conceived in the early 1970s,
and
so did the Tropica when it was developed in the early 1990s.
Some of the Tropica's design was a result of Beaumont's emotional
(over-)
reaction to NHTSA's fines for the Citicar's non-compliance. Those fines
were a large part of what wrecked his first company, so who can blame
him?
That's the reason for the Tropica's bizarre cable-operated steering
system,
for example. The Citicar was popped for having a non-collapsable
steering
column. IIRC, in NHTSA's crash tests, it impaled the dummy. This sad
sequence of events is documented in the book "The Lost Cord." I have a
copy
somewhere around here, but I'll admit I didn't dig it up to check my
memory
on this.
Anyway, to come the the point - I wouldn't want to say that your
chassis
can't be used, but I'm not sure it's worth it. I think you'll put a lot
less effort into a more conventional conversion and probably have an EV
that's at least as practical. But I could be wrong; try it and see!
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
________________________________________________________________________
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http://mail.aol.com
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:41:49 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] Battery charging...
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
My project is slowly evolving and now I need to consider how to charge,
balance and maintain my 13 Deka 9A31s 12 V AGM batteries.
Any suggestions? Can I build my own battery charger system or will I end up
buying one anyway, like I did after considering building a controller?
Thank you,
Dave Delman
1981 Electric DeLorean Project
electricdelorean.com
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:18:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Those Electric S-10's (again) .. most likely can never
be titled
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Those vehicles are US Government property and can only
be titled via an SF-97 form. I have done this before,
and it can be a lot of trouble.
But, those 3 vehicles (one of which I doubt is
actually an EV) will not and can not be be given an
SF-97 because they are clasified as H7 (Unservicable).
There is absolutely no way to get the correct
paperwork from the US Government to title those
vehicles. They simply won't give it to you because of
the clasification.
Therefore, be cautious, look into this before you bid.
I'm not saying there is absolutely no way to ever get
them registered. But, I assure you of this a 1997
vehicle with no title, former US Government property,
with a record of being sold as unservicable, is going
to be a major problem for anyone trying to put one of
these back on the road. The only way I can even think
of getting it done is to either register them as
salvage complete rebuild with a new vin number (good
luck ever getting one of those insured), or a bonded
title. The bonded title may be an option, but if any
history turns up on that vin and they find out it was
scrap, no way. Again, a major issue ever getting them
insured with a scrap history. So, it is a major risk.
I'm telling you this because I've gone though this
process before (with a vehicle that I actually did get
the SF-97 for eventually). These are being sold as
parts vehicles. Be cautious.
I actually thought about bidding myself since they are
only about 20 miles away from me. I planned to bid
only about $200 for the third one that probably isn't
even an EV. I figured $200, worst case I can drop it
off at the junk yard on the way home if it turns out
to be gas powered like the manifest shows. But after
looking into all this, I am not going anywhere near
them. It's a true shame because they probably could
be made to work electrically and mechanically. I do
see serious issues retrofitting batteries into them,
redoing the electronics, etc., but for $200 or so I
figured why not? Now that I did all the research and
I truly believe they can never be registered (at least
not here in GA), probabbly never legally driven, etc.
I changed my mind. I'm passing this info on to you so
you can make an informed decision before bidding.
Steve
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:20:56 -0700
From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Snap Krackle and Pop
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Are you running the motor with no load on it? I gather that you are because
you can't load the motor at 72 volts without running the car and you
probably
can't observe the brushes with the car in motion. At 72 volts and no load
the
motor rpm is dangerously high and the motor might explode.
Keep your face and especially your eyes away from any electrical device that
is
emitting loud noises and light flashes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 2:56 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Motor Snap Krackle and Pop
> I'm getting a little fireworks display coming from the brushes of the 8"
> ADC motor.
> It starts to occur once the motor voltage goes above 72v.
> This can't be normal, it isn't just some sparks, its a real cackle and
> light show.
> I didn't see this kind of thing with my other 8" motor from the Aspire.
> What can be the cause? Motor timing? Comm out-of-round?
> Jack
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:59:45 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Those Electric S-10's (again) .. most likely can
never be titled
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
From: Steve Powers
> Those vehicles are US Government property and can only
> be titled via an SF-97 form. I have done this before,
> and it can be a lot of trouble.
I agree; potential buyers need to be very careful that they know what they are
getting into! However, if one is willing to perservere, it can be done.
I bought my ComutaVan with a salvage title, after it had been used up by the US
Postal Service and then junked. I *did* have to get it inspected and re-titled.
This was a hassle, but by no means impossible.
"The only thing new is the history you don't know yet." -- Harry Truman
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:06:46 -0500
From: Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Those Electric S-10's (again) .. most likely can
never be titled
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Steve, why do you keep saying the third truck is not electric? The
pictures clearly show the large inverted under the hood, just as is
shown on the other two trucks. I know the idea of an EV with a
radiator is odd, but that is actually how the S-10EVs were made. All
three trucks appear to have the charge port behind the front license
plate, and all three have the chin spoiler which I believe was only
used on the electric drive S-10s. The pictures also show all three
trucks say "electric" on the back and the doors.
I believe the fifth character of the VIN, "E" is the designator for
electric drive. All three vehicles, plus the one in the DOE test
page I linked to have VINs that start with 1GCDE.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:47:52 -0600
From: "Derek Barger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Those Electric S-10's (again) .. most likely can
never be titled
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
The pictures look ok but the Manifest tells a completely different story.
http://web.govliquidation.com/auction/haystack?nsn=2320010096194&eventId=3060&lotNumber=1075
Derek
On 10/19/07, Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Steve, why do you keep saying the third truck is not electric? The
> pictures clearly show the large inverted under the hood, just as is
> shown on the other two trucks. I know the idea of an EV with a
> radiator is odd, but that is actually how the S-10EVs were made. All
> three trucks appear to have the charge port behind the front license
> plate, and all three have the chin spoiler which I believe was only
> used on the electric drive S-10s. The pictures also show all three
> trucks say "electric" on the back and the doors.
>
> I believe the fifth character of the VIN, "E" is the designator for
> electric drive. All three vehicles, plus the one in the DOE test
> page I linked to have VINs that start with 1GCDE.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
> In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
> position. (Horace)
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:11:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: "M. Barkley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Bones
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I've been trying to find a VW bug, to convert for my
11year old daughter. We want to start refurbishing it
from the ground up, slowing getting it totally
restored, and converted to electric by the time she's
16. I hope we're able to have better battery
technology by then.
M.Barkley
www.texomaev.com
www.nteaa.org
--- Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I contacted them recently and was informed that they
> were no longer in
> buisness and were only taking care of the customers
> they had already.
> Bill
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 23:24:37 -0400
From: Ben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Finding a donor bug (was EV Bones)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I would recommend checking out the classifieds on The Samba
(http://www.thesamba.com) as a good source of classic VW cars & parts.
Sounds like a very cool plan!
Ben
On 10/19/07, M. Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've been trying to find a VW bug, to convert for my
> 11year old daughter. We want to start refurbishing it
> from the ground up, slowing getting it totally
> restored, and converted to electric by the time she's
> 16. I hope we're able to have better battery
> technology by then.
>
> M.Barkley
> www.texomaev.com
> www.nteaa.org
>
>
>
> --- Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I contacted them recently and was informed that they
> > were no longer in
> > buisness and were only taking care of the customers
> > they had already.
> > Bill
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 22:33:35 -0500
From: Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Those Electric S-10's (again) .. most likely can
never be titled
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Okay, I agree, something is really odd here. The data is so crossed
up, the actual item could be either one. Completely contradictory
info. I wonder what would/will happen when the bidding ends. One of
these pages is completely bogus. I what happens if you win an
auction and the VIN doesn't match the vehicle you bid on?
Mike
At 09:47 PM 10/19/2007, you wrote:
>The pictures look ok but the Manifest tells a completely different story.
>http://web.govliquidation.com/auction/haystack?nsn=2320010096194&eventId=3060&lotNumber=1075
>
>Derek
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 03:46:20 +0000
From: robert harder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Those Electric S-10's (again) .. most likely can
never be titled
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
even if you can't register them they'd supply most of the parts for nice
conversion on another vehicle wouldn't they?
> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:18:40 -0700
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Subject: [EVDL] Those Electric S-10's (again) .. most likely can never be
> titled
>
> Those vehicles are US Government property and can only
> be titled via an SF-97 form. I have done this before,
> and it can be a lot of trouble.
>
> But, those 3 vehicles (one of which I doubt is
> actually an EV) will not and can not be be given an
> SF-97 because they are clasified as H7 (Unservicable).
> There is absolutely no way to get the correct
> paperwork from the US Government to title those
> vehicles. They simply won't give it to you because of
> the clasification.
>
> Therefore, be cautious, look into this before you bid.
> I'm not saying there is absolutely no way to ever get
> them registered. But, I assure you of this a 1997
> vehicle with no title, former US Government property,
> with a record of being sold as unservicable, is going
> to be a major problem for anyone trying to put one of
> these back on the road. The only way I can even think
> of getting it done is to either register them as
> salvage complete rebuild with a new vin number (good
> luck ever getting one of those insured), or a bonded
> title. The bonded title may be an option, but if any
> history turns up on that vin and they find out it was
> scrap, no way. Again, a major issue ever getting them
> insured with a scrap history. So, it is a major risk.
>
> I'm telling you this because I've gone though this
> process before (with a vehicle that I actually did get
> the SF-97 for eventually). These are being sold as
> parts vehicles. Be cautious.
>
> I actually thought about bidding myself since they are
> only about 20 miles away from me. I planned to bid
> only about $200 for the third one that probably isn't
> even an EV. I figured $200, worst case I can drop it
> off at the junk yard on the way home if it turns out
> to be gas powered like the manifest shows. But after
> looking into all this, I am not going anywhere near
> them. It's a true shame because they probably could
> be made to work electrically and mechanically. I do
> see serious issues retrofitting batteries into them,
> redoing the electronics, etc., but for $200 or so I
> figured why not? Now that I did all the research and
> I truly believe they can never be registered (at least
> not here in GA), probabbly never legally driven, etc.
> I changed my mind. I'm passing this info on to you so
> you can make an informed decision before bidding.
>
> Steve
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 00:48:01 -0400
From: "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] new battery break-in
To: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Electric Vehicle Discussion
List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I don't know how Roland can keep the battery amps so low. It takes 200 amps
at 30 mph going up the hill to my house. The car won't move up the hill at
all with less than 100. I have been keeping the amps under 200 most of the
time. My batteries probably won't last 10 years. It would seem to me that
miles or total kilowatt hours would be a better measure of battery life than
years. UPS batteries kept at 13.6V last a long time.
From: Frank John
> > I'm just starting to drive my Toyota pickup conversion with 9" ADC,
> > 1231 controller and 120 VDC T125 Trojan batteries. I'm trying to
> > limit current draw from the batteries to 200 amps for short periods
> > of time until I get some cycles on them.
>
>
>
> -
> __
--
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
Storm
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 00:49:44 -0400
From: "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bob Rice for NEDRA President
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Mine too. Does he want the job?
On 10/19/07, George Swartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Bob has my vote. He has a 40 year+ love affair with electric vehicles,
> knows everybody, is liked by all, and drives all the way across the USA
> for
> NEDRA races.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
--
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
Storm
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 00:56:45 -0400
From: "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Unattended charging ,Fun Stuff.
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I think a timer is mandatory. Way too easy to get distracted. The more crude
the charger the more it needs a timer.
On 10/19/07, Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 9:01 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] Unattended charging
> Hi Richard an' EVerybody;
>
> I'll ad a few comments here;
>
> >
> > I've seen some indirect comments over the last few months that suggest
> > that some of the EV heavy-hitters don't believe in leaving their
> vehicles
> > unattended while charging.
>
> > What! of course we do.
>
> > Is this true? Exactly what do you consider "unattended"? Sitting in/with
> > the car? Being in the next room? The same building? The same zip-code?
>
>
> Ha Ha!The same STATE? Used to plugitin and drive off, electric
> train,
> to NYC or Boston.
> >
> > Given the time that it takes to charge current battery technologies,
> isn't
> > it a bit unrealistic to expect the average driver to sit with their car
> > for 6 hours while it "refuels"? Isn't our goal as EV hobbyists in
> > promoting these vehicles to develop cars that are realistic to operate
> and
> > maintain?
>
> > Exactly! We hammer our charging system to fit circumstances.
>
> > If you have a "smart" charger like a Zivan or a Brusa with a GFI, is it
> > really still considered too risky to plug in, jump on commuter train and
> > ride away for the day? I mean, I'm not saying it's ok to build a Bad Boy
> > charger with a coffee pot timer and leave THAT unattended, but come on,
> > what level of control and fail-safe is considered "safe"?
>
> > My setup, BEFORE I had the PFC -20 was about a 100 foot, or so, stench
> > chord, a variac, which was cranked FULL on, plugged into a 20 amp
> breaker
> > that I had wired into the RR's breaker box. My runs ran 7-10 hours,
> plenty
> > of time for a 10 amp Bad Boy setup to charge the car, the longer hours a
> > tad overcharged. Great! I could blast home on the freeway at 70mph,
> > assured that I had plenty of juice to climb home at 450 foot
> alditude.The
> > 'stench cord was my dropping resister, as it was stretched over to my
> car,
> > from the outlet. Great snow melter in the winter! I could ALWAYS find
> the
> > cord! It got pleasently warm, but by it's streatched out length, ran
> cool
> > enouigh.I never felt that I NEEDED a 240 volt outlet, although I DID
> > install one later so I could use the RR as a Charge Station on the way
> to
> > Somewhere Else , like on my day off. With my Little Blue Box I could
> stuff
> > 70 amps in for awile. Talk about "Stench cords" IF the car was low I had
> > melting range plugs and #10 cords!!Usually it dropped down to 30-40 amps
> > pretty quick! THIS one I babysat! hung around to make sure I didn't have
> a
> > meltdown! Thought of two 50 amp plugs and cords to share the load. You
> > just don't buy a 75-100 amp plug at Home Despot or Blowes! Never used
> this
> > setup that often. Once, to charge to the teeth, to run down to
> Bridgeport
> > and take the BPT-Port Jeff Ferry over to Wrong Island for the weekend.
> > Made it across Long Island to Westhampton, no problem, about 50
> miles.EVen
> > had enough juice for show an' tell upon arrival. NOW if the BPT-Port
> Jeff
> > Steamboat ( Hah! They haven't had any real STEAM boats for 50 plus
> > years!) Co would put some 240 volt outlets on the car deck? Hell! They
> > charge ya enough, at 40 bux ,for the ferry trip! I would like to be
> > charged twice! Hour an' a half ride, very nice on hot summer daze!
>
> SOMETIMES I had been held over so I didn't get back in about 8-10
> hours
> I would CALL the RR shop, and ask one of the guyz to just unplug the car,
> so
> I wouldn't FRY the batteries. Of course I was in a private, protected lot.
> Safer than a public place. For that I guees you could have a timer setup?
> Just take a few hours worth?
>
> You're miliage may vary, though. I just thought I'd share my times
> and
> setup at work.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
--
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
Storm
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 01:03:03 -0400
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bob Rice for NEDRA President
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi Geo an' EVerybody;
, Thanks for the kind words(Blush!) Seems I'm intruding on John
Wayland's turf? I'm surprised he wasn't on the ballot?John IS MR Electric
Drag racing!
Love affair with EV's ALL sizes and shapes? Guilty. WE NEED EV's nowadaze
with Oil at almost 100 bux a barrel, an unwinable war to "protect" the
supply? Feh! As I have said all along Drag Racing is more fun than wars, for
improving technology. WhatEVer it takes to get EV's Out There. If I have
influinced folks toward EVing. Well, I did Good?
About all I know about drag racing is you TRY yur damndist to go a
quarter mile from a standing stop, not crack up, and improve your "beast" to
go FASTER next time? With my 54 mph in the quarter Rabbit. A True Led Sled!
But it got me to work for 7 years. Was gunna tromp my record at Joliet? Ha
Ha! Well I DID do a great smokin' breakstand, though<g>!Nothin' broke!
Again, thanks Geo, an EVerybody for the kind words!
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 12:44 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Bob Rice for NEDRA President
>
> Bob has my vote. He has a 40 year+ love affair with electric vehicles,
> knows everybody, is liked by all, and drives all the way across the USA
> for
> NEDRA races.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.28/1023 - Release Date:
> 9/22/2007 1:27 PM
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 03:09:20 -0500
From: Hunter Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Someone please shoot this idea down
To: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Electric Vehicle Discussion
List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain
Wow!
I guess I had the same "but transformers are for AC" reaction as most.
Even though we all know that DC motors still make AC
electromechanically. Glad someone stepped up and told us what was up.
But either way, I have to wonder whether this really gets around your
legal problem. If you have a transformer secondary on the motor at 120v,
isn't that still an EV with more than 80v? I guess I don't know the
specific legislation in question, but I'd be careful...
Other thoughts that come to mind are an inverter -> transformer ->
rectifier (horribly inefficient ;-) or just an AC drive.
Hunter
On Fri, 2007-10-19 at 12:22 -0700, Lee Hart wrote:
> From: "M. Barkley"
> > I had a brain @!#$% last night and wondered if this would work:
> > Place a heavy duty transformer between the motor and controller,
> > so that the controller is feeding one winding of the transformer,
> > and the other is feeding the DC motor. If the transformer was
> > wound to boost the output voltage in relation to the input voltage,
> > would this accomplish anything for the EV, or just let the smoke
> > out of something?
>
> Transformers don't work on DC, as others have pointed out.
>
> However, the usual PWM DC motor controller produces AC as well as DC. So
> there are indeed possibilities for using a transformer under certain
> conditions.
>
> 1. The field winding of a series motor is basically an inductor. It
> has less than 1 volt DC across it, but a high AC voltage when the
> controller is switching.
>
> So, you can wire the primary of a transformer in parallel with the
> field winding of the motor. It will see almost no DC voltage, but
> a large AC voltage. The peak-to-peak AC voltage will be roughly
> the full pack voltage, at the controller's switching frequency.
> With a 120v pack and Curtis controller, this means about 50 volts
> AC at 15 KHz on the transformer primary.
>
> The transformer needs a core good for this frequency; not a 60 Hz
> transformer with a laminated core, but a powdered iron or ferrite
> core like you find in a switching power supply or TV flyback or
> deflection yoke.
>
> The secondary of this transformer could supply a substantial amount
> of power; up to a few percent of whatever power you're feeding to
> the motor.
>
> 2. The usual PWM motor controller is the simplest version of a buck
> converter -- one transistor, one diode, one inductor, one capacitor.
> But there are more versions. If you tap the inductor, it alters
> the performance in useful ways. It can increase the step-down ratio,
> or reduce the stress on the transistor (by increasing the stress
> on the diode), or vice versa. Adding a separate inductor in series
> with the motor can in effect provide such a tapped inductor.
>
> So, the idea is not without merit. It just has to be done correctly!
>
> --
> "Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:00:04 +0100
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla Motors article in Wall Street Journal
10-16-2007
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On 10/20/07, David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> An EV that does 0-60 in 15 seconds would be more than peppy enough for me,
> and probably for more people than you might think.
Exactly. I don't think I've ever had a car that accelerates that
quickly, certainly my current EVs barely reach 60mph and probably take
about a minute to do so.
> I also realize that some people are quite literally afraid of being "run
> over" and will say that their cities are different.
Making up for lack of confidence or skills in driving by buying a
ridiculously powerful car isn't necessarily a good solution IMHO, and
is more likely to add to the dangers.
That said, I'm very glad there is a fast production EV on the way!
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 07:09:54 -0300
From: Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Last gas powered ride
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I drove the GS yesterday to a friends office/shop and parked it where
its supposed to be converted. I'll start removing the engine next week.
yay!
pictures http://www.nn.cl/Fotos/Autos/EV/Nivel5/
--
Eduardo K. | "The Stone Age did not end for a lack of stones,
http://www.carfun.cl | and the oil age will end not for a lack of oil."
http://e.nn.cl | Sheik Yamani, Saudi oil minister, 1973
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:18:50 -0700
From: "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hydrogen? and EVs
To: "Gail Lucas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Electric Vehicle
Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi Gail,
This unit would fit right into your life style Gail. A solar powered
hydrogen refueling system with a fuel cell range extender bolted to your
back bumper. With your record of keeping those Comutacars on the road I have
no doubt that someday soon I will see you driving around town with a box
bolted to the rear bumper dripping water.
I have seen the city's Honda fuel cell car, they brought it to the opening
of our hydrogen refueling station. They are happy with there fuel cell
Honda, there is talk of us getting one, the boss is trying anyway.
"Gail Lucas"
> Hi Richard,
>
> How soon will you be able to put a fuel cell into one of my Comutacars and
> how much will it cost me? With all of the experience you have had working
> on my cars you must know exactly what modifications would be needed.
>
> Have you seen the fuel cell powered cars the city of Las Vegas leased? I
> heard that they were working well but have not had a chance to see one.
>
> Gail
Richard Furniss
is it suppose to smoke like that ?
No trees were harmed in the creation of this message. But billions of
electrons were terribly inconvenienced!
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 19:09:22 -0700
From: "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hydrogen? and EVs
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Evan,
You are correct what I should have said was that the present unit will
produce 13kg in 24 hour, his is a gas not liquid, the gas is compressed to
5000 psi.
The electrolyzes only runs for a short time, minutes at a time, dumping
it 500psi charge into a buffer tank. The compressor runs the longest pushing
it to 5000psi. So I guess run time is what's missing.
You can check at the link below for all the live data. (The sensors may not
be hooked up yet to the new unit, keep checking, it shouldn't be long)
http://www.hydrogen.unlv.edu/realtimedata.html
Please, lets keep this about range extenders for EVs and not about cost and
politics. Lets see what we can make happen in the next couple of years to
make our EVs more versatile. In the way of range extenders we have had
gasoline, diesel, biodiesel, CNG, and lead acid. Now if I can find someone
that works with all those experimental units that wants to sell a used
electrolyzes.
''Evan Tuer"
> Sorry, you said 13 kG, not litres! As Peter already said, that's
> worth about 30kWh per kG?
>
> That's a lot, clearly more than your PV array produces in a day. So I
> guess that's the output of your hydrogen plan, running flat out on
> grid power.
>
> So how much energy does it take?
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 08:41:31 -0400
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Using a Unibody, Comments
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Using a Unibody
> On 17 Oct 2007 at 12:32, Bill Dennis wrote:
>
>> Gee, Paul, thanks for the helpful response.
>
> After Paul Compton wrote :
>
>> > Why bother?
>> >
>> > The Tropica chassis is a heavy pile of crap.
>> >
>>
>
> Actually, while it's probably not what you want to hear - you have a
> chassis
> you'd like to use - Paul's is probably more helpful advice than you
> realize.
> He might have phrased it more kindly, and it might be a slight
> exaggeration, but I don't think he's far off the mark. The Tropica was a
> sexy looking EV but it had some flaws. It really >was< on the heavy side.
>
>
> Basically, the Tropica was an updated Citicar. The same person was
> responsible for both. He certainly learned from his experiences with the
> Citicar - but I'm not sure he always learned the RIGHT lesson! Both cars
> were in some ways behind the times. From what I recall, the Citicar used
> 20
> year old suspension concepts when it was conceived in the early 1970s, and
> so did the Tropica when it was developed in the early 1990s.
> Hi David;
20 years? Hah.Yur being too polite! We used good old 18th cenrtury
WAGON technology, Solid axles, lief springs, long perfected when Lincoln was
Prez! We HAD shitloads of Golf Cart springs we had to use up. Also it wasn't
gunna be a "Performance" car. We were never gunna scare Porsche, or EVen
Ford, with ride and handling!Having never met a Tropica I can't comment on
that.
> Some of the Tropica's design was a result of Beaumont's emotional (over-)
> reaction to NHTSA's fines for the Citicar's non-compliance. Those fines
> were a large part of what wrecked his first company, so who can blame him?
> That and Consumer Reports writeup. CR had a few good points, though.An
> "Unacceptable" rating, sure didn't help? I think the guy said" I was never
> so glad to slam the door and walk away" in concluding the Test?But , lets
> face it, WAS supposed to be a CHEAP car.
> That's the reason for the Tropica's bizarre cable-operated steering
> system,
> for example. The Citicar was popped for having a non-collapsable steering
> column. IIRC, in NHTSA's crash tests, it impaled the dummy. This sad
> sequence of events is documented in the book "The Lost Cord." I have a
> copy
> somewhere around here, but I'll admit I didn't dig it up to check my
> memory
> on this.
"Lost Cord" SHOULD be required reading for ANYBODY thinking of going
into the Auto Biz! It is out of publication, but I think Bob Beaumont ran
more Publication runs?
> I guess the NHTSA got Citicar up to 30mph for tests!? It BARELY would
> go 30,on it's own,'cept downhill! I know we TOWED it up to 60 mph with a
> Chevy Wagon, on the runways at Seabring , we were at an old WW2 airport,
> just to see IF it would stay upright.Scary! It DID have a roll cage, so
> this wasn't instant suicide! A simple Mc Phearson strut type front end
> woulda been nice! Never had the time! Get SOMETHING we can sell, was the
> Co. Policy! We just didn't have the time and knowledge, Hell! I'm not an
> automotive engineer. I used the same front end I homemade on my Taiwan
> Electro Liners(2) I had built years earlier, worked there, although on my
> second edition I went to coil springs and swing axles, sorta like modern
> rear ends of, say Nissan Sentras. MUCH smoother ride! Was thinking of
> copying Ford's Twin I beam setup. Ford NEVER got the front steering
> geometry right. My Ford van scrubs the tires BADLY in sharp turns!EVen I
> could see that!But you usually go streight ahead, most of the time? So
> never copied that! I think Ford did, too??
Seeya
Jim Rice, actually Bob, Jim I was called in Some of the" Lost Cord"
pix<g>!
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 07:32:06 -0700
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Quiet Vacuum Pump: CL-60
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
"Also don't forget to put a diode across the coil too."
What coil?
Roger Daisley
Pullman, WA
"Saving The Environment, One Mile At A Time."
http://www.96-volt.com
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 09:12:39 -0600
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] new battery break-in
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>, "Lee Hart"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Storm,
I just did a test yesterday, to see what my battery amps would be on the
only level section of road for a length of about 2000 feet driving at 35 mph
instead of 30 mph which is the maximum speed of these roads inside the city.
Now, this with 6 years old batteries which are Trojan T-145's in a 6860 lb
EV with a 1st gear ratio of 3.5:1 times the axle ratio of 5.57:1 which is a
overall ratio 19.495:1 which allows me to go up to 26 mph in 1st gear at
6000 rpm.
The tires are 30 inches in diameter and have a very hard steel-poly face
that's keeps it more round with a soft side wall that where the deflection
of the tire is, not in the face which would result in a lot of road
resistance. These tires, are at 65 PSI which are rated at a load of 2650
lbs.
I then shift to 2nd gear which is now has a over all ratio of 2.5:1 x 5.57:1
= 13.925:1 which allows me to go to 36 mph at 6000 rpm.
At a stop to get on this street, I accelerated up to 25 mph in 1st gear
which peak to 110 battery amps and 400 motor amps, then the battery amperes
came back to 52 battery amps at 200 motor amperes.
Shifting into 2nd gear and accelerating to 35 mph keeping up with the
traffic, the battery amps to peak to 125 amps and the a motor ampere went to
350 motor amperes at 6000 rpm, then the battery amperes comes back to 55
amps at about 200 motor amperes.
Now driving off this level section, the road now goes into a slight roller
coaster roads. Now my battery ampere drops going down slope which may even
increase in speed, that allows the EV to go up the next slope and down
again. Some times I have to applied a little throttle to keep it at 35 mph
which now the battery ampere is now at 33 amperes and the motor amperes is
at 125 amps.
When I see that I have to come to a stop or slow down at a turn, I have to
let up on the accelerator about 3 blocks or about 1500 feet from the stop or
turn if my inverter-alternator has hardly any load on it to provide some
REGEN.
My 1st gear ratio is greater by 3 or 4 times the ratio of the standard
ratios. My Manta Mirage has a only a 2:1 x 3.0 = 6:1 1st gear ratio, but it
weighs 1800 lbs. If it was a EV at 1800 lbs, the the watt/hrs that is
require to move it with only a 6:1 ratio would be about:
If it takes 2400 wt/hr to move 100 lbs of weight direct drive, then:
1800 lbs / 100 = 18
18 x 2400 = 43,200 wt/hr
43,200/6 = 7,200 wt/hr for the Manta.
For my EV at 6860 lbs:
6860 lbs / 100 = 68.6
68.6 x 2400 = 164,640 wt/hr
164,640/19.495 = 8,445 wt/hr for my EV
So you see there is very little difference between a lite weight vehicle
with a high speed ratio gears and a heavy EV with low speed ratio gears.
The new GM 6L auto transmissions in the high performance vehicles now has a
4.01 1st gear ratio, that would make a overall ratio of 4.01 x 5.57:1 =
22.335:1.
164,640/22.335 = 7371 wt/hr for my EV as compare to the Manta at 7200
wt/hr.
That's how I maintain a very low battery ampere, you have to have the gears
plus a motor that provides a high torque at low rpm.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] new battery break-in
> I don't know how Roland can keep the battery amps so low. It takes 200
> amps
> at 30 mph going up the hill to my house. The car won't move up the hill at
> all with less than 100. I have been keeping the amps under 200 most of the
> time. My batteries probably won't last 10 years. It would seem to me that
> miles or total kilowatt hours would be a better measure of battery life
> than
> years. UPS batteries kept at 13.6V last a long time.
>
>
> From: Frank John
> > > I'm just starting to drive my Toyota pickup conversion with 9" ADC,
> > > 1231 controller and 120 VDC T125 Trojan batteries. I'm trying to
> > > limit current draw from the batteries to 200 amps for short periods
> > > of time until I get some cycles on them.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > __
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
> http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
> Storm
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 08:50:23 -0700 (MST)
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hydrogen? and EVs
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
I was going to say that the numbers don't add up (using a 14kw array to
produce 13kg per day)
But it appears that the system is using a grid tie? So I'm guessing that
the bulk of the electrical energy needed by the system is coming from the
grid?
> Evan,
>
> You are correct what I should have said was that the present unit will
> produce 13kg in 24 hour, his is a gas not liquid, the gas is compressed to
> 5000 psi.
>
> The electrolyzes only runs for a short time, minutes at a time,
> dumping
> it 500psi charge into a buffer tank. The compressor runs the longest
> pushing
> it to 5000psi. So I guess run time is what's missing.
>
> You can check at the link below for all the live data. (The sensors may
> not
> be hooked up yet to the new unit, keep checking, it shouldn't be long)
>
> http://www.hydrogen.unlv.edu/realtimedata.html
>
> Please, lets keep this about range extenders for EVs and not about cost
> and
> politics. Lets see what we can make happen in the next couple of years to
> make our EVs more versatile. In the way of range extenders we have had
> gasoline, diesel, biodiesel, CNG, and lead acid. Now if I can find someone
> that works with all those experimental units that wants to sell a used
> electrolyzes.
>
>
>
>
> ''Evan Tuer"
>> Sorry, you said 13 kG, not litres! As Peter already said, that's
>> worth about 30kWh per kG?
>>
>> That's a lot, clearly more than your PV array produces in a day. So I
>> guess that's the output of your hydrogen plan, running flat out on
>> grid power.
>>
>> So how much energy does it take?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
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If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
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------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 08:20:36 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Quiet Vacuum Pump: CL-60
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Electric Vehicle Discussion List
<ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> "Also don't forget to put a diode across the coil too."
> What coil?
The motor's coil (i.e. across the motor). Cathode (banded end) to positive,
anode (arrow) to negative. The diode prevents the switch that turns the motor
off from being hit with huge voltage spikes when it turns off.
--
"Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 12:59:42 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: "Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] David Roden
To: ev list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi David,
Thanks for the input, if I`m correct, the Solectria drove 45mph at 144v using
50amps,7.2kw, so if the EVette went 45mph at 120v using 60amps,7.2kw, wouldn`t
that be essentially the same out come?
Ton Sines
________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
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------------------------------
Message: 27
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 10:17:13 -0700
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla Motors article in Wall Street Journal
10-16-2007
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Speaking of cars and how expectations change, check out the book "The
Electric Vehicle --- Technology and Expectations in the Automobile Age".
Here's a link:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0801871387/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-0316830-8319371
#reader-link
The author (Gijs Mom) looks at EV's historically as being part of 1st gen
(1881-1902), 2nd gen (1902-1925) and "3rd generation and beyond".
It's interesting to look at the history of EVs and how their interest and
periodic demise relates to the times and crises of the day. A lot of
factors play into what technologies get adopted and what gets remaindered to
the steamroller of history. EVs have been remaindered in the past...let's
hope the lessons of the past aren't lost to us now.
One interesting thing in looking back at the 1915 era of EVs is that in many
metropolitan areas there was a surprising array of EV charging
stations/garages. New York, Chicago, Detroit, L.A. and even Portland, Or.
had them. While we hear folks nowadays talking of needing charging "spots"
around town, I don't hear much talk about lobbying for charging garages.
While I wouldn't envision this being like the early EV garages which
included trained staff and charger infrastructure, we should consider
getting city leaders to begin thinking of getting parking garages set up
with an array of charging parking spaces. It's not enough to just have
on-street charging.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of David Roden
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 4:46 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla Motors article in Wall Street Journal 10-16-2007
On 17 Oct 2007 at 14:53, Joseph T. wrote:
> The Rav4 EV,
> however, was very slooow. 0-60 in like 15 seconds or something. The
> motor is just 67 hp. What was Toyota thinking making this great car
> this slow?
My, how expectations have changed. In 1975, most auto writers called the
then-new VW Rabbit "quick." It went from 0 to 60 in about 12 seconds.
Not to start another iteration of this old argument, but I'm not convinced
that this is any kind of black mark on the RAV4-EV. I think that most
people are perhaps a bit spoiled by having enormous amounts of energy
onboard their vehicles (in 20 gallon gas tanks). This allows their vehicles
to have more torque on tap than they really need - unless they carry heavy
loads and/or drive in hilly regions.
I realize that merging onto expressways can be tough in some cities, but
I've found that it can be handled in slower EVs (and slower ICEs) with good
planning and patience. Brute force - mashing the pedal - is not the only
way, just the quickest (and sometimes the most hazardous).
I also realize that some people are quite literally afraid of being "run
over" and will say that their cities are different. That may be true.
However, I'm not too bothered by the music of singing car horns behind me.
I don't have anything to prove. IMO, if the folks behind me on the ramp
have to wait a few extra seconds, then that'll just teach them a little
patience too. ;-)
An EV that does 0-60 in 15 seconds would be more than peppy enough for me,
and probably for more people than you might think.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator
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End of EV Digest, Vol 3, Issue 58
*********************************
