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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Electrical Standards (Peter VanDerWal)
2. "Reimagining the Automobile Industry by Selling the
Electricity" -- NY Times article 10/29/2007 (Beth Silverman)
3. Re: Tesla and Hyatt (Evan Tuer)
4. Re: Tesla and Hyatt (Lee Hart)
5. Re: Electrical Standards (Lee Hart)
6. Re: Tesla and Hyatt (storm connors)
7. Re: Tiny Heater (Deanne Mott)
8. Re: Tesla and Hyatt (Roger Stockton)
9. Press release on Firefly "Oasis" battery
(Stuart Friedrich and Wendy Lyn)
10. Re: Tiny Heater (M. Barkley)
11. Re: Tiny Heater (Deanne Mott)
12. Re: Tiny Heater (Roland Wiench)
13. Re: Tiny Heater (Roland Wiench)
14. Re: Press release on Firefly "Oasis" battery (Dan Frederiksen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:46:02 -0700 (MST)
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electrical Standards
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
No, it's 120V +/- 5% at the Service Entrance, i.e. at the meter.
The power company is NOT responsible for your house wiring, especially not
for looses in the house wiring.
> If you have 104 volts at your outlet, you have a problem! The spec is
> 120
> +/- 5%, at the outlet.
>
> If your wiring is sized properly, you will see a few volts drop on high
> current loads, but you should never see 104v!
>
> -Phil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electrical Standards
>
>
>> That's probably because it's the "Service Voltage" that's at 120V (plus
>> or
>> minus 5 percent).
>> By the time it get's through the house wiring to the outlet, it's
>> typically down to 104V to 110V (I believe the spec is 120V +6 to -13
>> percent)
>>
>> SO even though it's technically 120V, 110V is closer to what you
>> normally
>> really get.
>>
>>> Funny this discussion of standards, when most people still call US
>>> standard
>>> voltage 110v when it's been 120v for over a half of a century.
>>>
>>> Either that, or it's showing our average age! =)
>>>
>>> I was in Australia for about a month recently and I get really used to
>>> their
>>> 240v 50hz power. It's really nice to be able to pull 2.4kw from a
>>> "standard" wall outlet. I noticed some small appliances and tools took
>>> advantage of this and offered an improvement in performance over their
>>> US
>>> counterparts.
>>>
>>> Here in the US, we can generally only expect 1.8kw, (or 1.65kw for all
>>> you
>>> 110'ers) although most newer circuits deliver more, even if that's all
>>> the
>>> outlet is technically rated for.
>>>
>>> -Phil
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> For subscription options, see
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
>> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever
>> I
>> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
>> legalistic signature is void.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:11:40 -0700
From: "Beth Silverman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] "Reimagining the Automobile Industry by Selling the
Electricity" -- NY Times article 10/29/2007
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/technology/29agassi.html?_r=1&oref=slo
gin
Beth Silverman
Azure Dynamics
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:58:00 +0000
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla and Hyatt
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Oct 30, 2007 2:45 PM, Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> I don't see anything "terrifying" about the existing plugs in the US. The
> >> standard outlet in London doesn't appear to be any safer.
>
> He EVerybody;
> > Out of Lerk mode here, Scary US plugs Coming form somebody on the Europe?
> > Who ya kidding? 240 in ALL your outlets is scary as hell! A kid get that
> > across his fingers, I guess, like a cat, only jumps on a hot stove
> > once!?The 120 volt will be a vigerous jolt, 240 would/could KILL you!Not
> > meaning to diss Euro power, I like it!
It just isn't an issue Bob; firstly you can't touch live parts. Even
if you can, almost all sockets (certainly all outside ones) are on
RCDs (GFCIs). Because the voltage is higher, you *have* to have more
respect for it.
Anyway, we're talking about the Tesla's garage charger, which is 240V
in any case.
> > Yeah, ya can with almost any plug.120 volts here will be safer than 240.
The UK and Euro-Schucko sockets are shuttered and the plugs have
touch-proof pins. So you really can't touch the live bits, even if
you try quite hard. That's the point, and that's why it's perfectly
safe at 230V.
> >> The idea of cost/benefit analysis seems to be missing.
> >
> > The cost/benefit is clear: the first serious accident (someone's
> > garage burning down, someone's kid being killed) where you can say
> > "they could have done something to prevent that" will kill the entire
> > company, and probably take modern EVs with it.
> > IF they make a sensible plug that we can BUY for less than a mortgage
> > payment?They, Tesla, would set OUR standard, as I figure I'll see Teslas
> > on the road in MY lifetime?
They're supposed to be out in the Spring aren't they? To my mind it's
a sensible plug, even if only for the fact that it forces a proper
electrical installation for charging at the owners home.
It's what, $100 worth of parts for the fancy box with GFCI and bit of
protective circuitry, on a $90,000 car. They'd be mad if they didn't.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:28:38 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla and Hyatt
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
storm connors wrote:
>> I don't see anything "terrifying" about the existing plugs in the
>> US. The standard outlet in London doesn't appear to be any safer.
Evan Tuer wrote:
> you can touch the live pins of certain US plugs very easily...
Yes; that is a shortcoming, a consequence of continuing to use designs
that are nearly 100 years ago.
The British outlets I've seen are very similar -- except that they
mount them below the surface in a hole deep enough so the mating plug's
body blocks access to the pins as you insert/remove it.
There are US plugs and receptacles built exactly like this; but the
standards don't require them, so most people don't install them. The
bottom line is that the problem isn't considered serious enough to
bother to address.
> The cost/benefit is clear: the first serious accident (someone's
> garage burning down, someone's kid being killed) where you can say
> "they could have done something to prevent that" will kill the entire
> company, and probably take modern EVs with it.
It might; there are product liability lawyers that would no doubt try.
:-( But it is by no means a sure thing. I suppose it's a cost/RISK
analysis that's needed.
Most companies look at what others in related industries have been
doing, and then do something that is at least as good as the "generally
accepted practice". If you're wrong, then everyone else in the industry
must have been wrong, too. This greatly reduces the odds you having to
pay some ruinous penalty from some jury being swayed by crying widows or
maimed children.
For example: Toasters have exposed metal parts, they don't have 3-wire
grounded cords, and there is no interlock to keep you from sticking your
hand inside and getting burned or shocked. Every year, dozens of fires
and shocks are reported. Yet nothing is done about it. There are no
ruinous lawsuits, they don't tighten the standards, and toasters keep
getting built the same old way. Why?
It's because people are used to the situation. Companies building new
toasters just copy what all the previous toaster manufacturers did. If
they're dragged into court, they say, "It's in the standards! They're
all built that way! Everybody knows toasters can be dangerous if used
wrong! How can we be blamed?" And the jury agrees, and finds them innocent.
Charging electric cars is no different from plugging in any other
electrical appliance. People have been doing it forever -- it's nothing
new. Consumers have been using high-power plugs on air conditioners,
boat marinas, RV parks, stoves, dryers, and all sorts of things.
Inexperience people don't know what's been done before, or how it turned
out. Their solutions tend to miss the target -- either far too simple,
or way too complicated. It leads them to invent their own standards,
because they don't know what's already "out there" in the field.
I think this was the case with the GM Magnecharger, and now with the
proposed Tesla standard. Both are overly complicated, expensive and look
naive and inexperienced to anyone outside the company. Neither will set
any kind of long-term standard, because no one will find them worth copying.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:40:35 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electrical Standards
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> I stand corrected. It seemed bizarre that you would run power with
> the phases not being distributed symmetrically to zero out the nuetral
> current, but a little internet research shows that it was quite common
> to generate and run four wire two phase with the two phases 90 degrees
> apart before three phase machines were developed.
2-phase and 3-phase (and in fact, all other numbers of phases except
single-phase) have the advantage that the instantaneous sum of the power
is a constant. This means the power produced by a generator or used by a
motor is constant -- no torque pulsations.
2-phase happens to need 4 wires. They are symmetrical around ground; you
can have a 5th neutral wire if desired. A 2-phase motor is more
complicated than a single-phase, but less complicated than 3-phase. This
is the attraction as far as the motor designer is concerned.
3-phase only need 3 wires -- that's the advantage as far as the power
company is concerned (fewer wire to route). The total wire size for a
given amount of power is still the same; it's just split into 3 parts
instead of 4 parts (so you don't save any copper). The higher the phase
count, the more complicated the motor is to wind.
Now, all of the above assumes sine waves. If you have square wave power
(like from an inverter), then the more phases you have, the smoother the
power. 4, 6, 12, and even 24 phase systems have been built.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 13:06:32 -0400
From: "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla and Hyatt
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Lee sez: To my mind it's
a sensible plug, even if only for the fact that it forces a proper
electrical installation for charging at the owners home.
It's what, $100 worth of parts for the fancy box with GFCI and bit of
protective circuitry, on a $90,000 car. They'd be mad if they didn't.
Then revises it to:
Inexperience people don't know what's been done before, or how it turned
out. Their solutions tend to miss the target -- either far too simple,
or way too complicated. It leads them to invent their own standards,
because they don't know what's already "out there" in the field.
I think this was the case with the GM Magnecharger, and now with the
proposed Tesla standard. Both are overly complicated, expensive and look
naive and inexperienced to anyone outside the company. Neither will set
any kind of long-term standard, because no one will find them worth copying.
Sounds like you sorta agree with me. :-)
--
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 13:09:16 -0400
From: "Deanne Mott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tiny Heater
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi Roland,
I'm hoping you can elaborate on your small under the dash heaters?
I'm wondering what's the brand and model, and also how you hooked them
up (electrically and mechanically.)
I was about to buy one of the $600 water type EV heaters, but today
(at 35F outside) I noticed that pretty much only my feet and legs get
cold on my half hour drive to work. If its really cold I have a 12V
heated blanket but that makes it awkward to drive, and my feet still
are cold. Maybe all I need here in NC is one of these little guys
under the dash at my feet.
thanks very much - De
On 10/30/07, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am using a under dash heaters that I got from a independent auto parts
> store. These are known as cab heaters which hang from a bracket under the
> dash. I have two of them, one for the driver side and one for the passenger
> side.
>
> These units are only 2 to 3 inches high and mine is way back about 1 inch
> from the fire wall, so the circulated air can go into the rear of the
> heater. I use a on dash 30 amp rated switches to select which heater I want
> on.
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:19:15 -0700
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla and Hyatt
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
storm connors wrote:
> Lee sez: To my mind it's
> a sensible plug, even if only for the fact that it forces a
> proper electrical installation for charging at the owners home.
>
> It's what, $100 worth of parts for the fancy box with GFCI
> and bit of protective circuitry, on a $90,000 car. They'd be
> mad if they didn't.
Actually, you misread. Evan T said the above, and Lee said the rest; no
revision or variance in Lee's stance. ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 13:32:51 -0400
From: Stuart Friedrich and Wendy Lyn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Press release on Firefly "Oasis" battery
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Firefly Energy has issued some more information on the release of their new
lead-graphite acid battery.
http://www.fireflyenergy.com/images/stories/pdfs/PressReleases/FireflyEnergyUnveilsOasisTruckBattery102907.pdf
Also a blurb at Green Car Congress.
They say that the battery will be available for testing and review in Q1 of
2008. I assume that this testing will be done at a limited number of
facilities, rather than being available for testing by the general public.
They also mention initial availability in the summer of 2008, with full
production by the end of 2008. Does this mean that these will be available for
purchase as early as next summer? Anyone with further insider information on
actual availability to the public?
Stuart
_________________________________________________________________
Are you ready for Windows Live Messenger Beta 8.5 ? Get the latest for free
today!
http://entertainment.sympatico.msn.ca/WindowsLiveMessenger
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:48:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: "M. Barkley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tiny Heater
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Are they something like these heaters? :
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94592
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96144
Not sure if these would put out enough heat, even here
in the South.
--- Deanne Mott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Roland,
>
> I'm hoping you can elaborate on your small under the
> dash heaters?
> I'm wondering what's the brand and model, and also
> how you hooked them
> up (electrically and mechanically.)
>
> I was about to buy one of the $600 water type EV
> heaters, but today
> (at 35F outside) I noticed that pretty much only my
> feet and legs get
> cold on my half hour drive to work. If its really
> cold I have a 12V
> heated blanket but that makes it awkward to drive,
> and my feet still
> are cold. Maybe all I need here in NC is one of
> these little guys
> under the dash at my feet.
>
> thanks very much - De
>
> On 10/30/07, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I am using a under dash heaters that I got from a
> independent auto parts
> > store. These are known as cab heaters which hang
> from a bracket under the
> > dash. I have two of them, one for the driver side
> and one for the passenger
> > side.
> >
> > These units are only 2 to 3 inches high and mine
> is way back about 1 inch
> > from the fire wall, so the circulated air can go
> into the rear of the
> > heater. I use a on dash 30 amp rated switches to
> select which heater I want
> > on.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:22:53 -0400
From: "Deanne Mott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tiny Heater
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I've read reviews of those heaters, that plug into the 12v socket.
Most everyone said they threw them away. A friend of mine bought one
when his car heat went out, and he said he could only feel the heat
when he stuck the thing inside his coat. I think he threw his out
too... I'm hoping there are small heaters that are more substantial
than that :-)
On 10/30/07, M. Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Are they something like these heaters? :
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94592
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96144
>
> Not sure if these would put out enough heat, even here
> in the South.
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:40:06 -0600
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tiny Heater
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Deanne,
The ones I have are made by Phillips. I think KAT's may make some like
these. KAT's and Phillips can be purchase through a auto parts store. I am
using a 640 watt at 120 volts 60 hz on the driver side, which all last
winter here in Montana is the only heater I use so far.
It is all self contain with fan and has a built in thermostat with a U
bracket for hanging under the dash.
My input AC power to the EV is a 50 amp 120/240 volt 4 wire plug that is
connected to a terminal strip with four wires, which are the two line wires,
(L1 and L2 which reads 240 volts between these wires), a neutral wire, (N)
and a ground wire (G).
120 volts is tap off L1, Neutral and ground to a onboard chassis mounted
circuit breakers. These are the same type of circuit breakers that are in a
circuit breaker panel, but you install a circuit breaker chassis mounts that
is clip onto the bottom of these plug in circuit breakers and can mount them
on a metal chassis plate. You can get these circuit breaker mounting clips
from any electrical supply house.
A No. 10 AWG type MTW 19 stranded copper wire feeder circuit is ran from the
circuit breakers and terminate at a 300 volt rated terminal strips that is
place under a fold down dash panels and place on a metal chassis plate that
is mounted on stand offs which extends the chassis plate off the firewall
about 3 inches.
MTW wire is a softer chassis wire that lays better and has thicker
insulation than THHN that has a thinner insulation that requires a jacket or
conduit. If you cannot find 300 or 600 volt rated MTW wire, then it is best
to use a 3 wire power cord with insulation and a jacket that is rated for at
least 300 volts.
After exposing about 4 inches of wire from the jacket, install a heat shrink
to seal the wire to jacket connection.
I than connect A No. 12 AWG type MTW Line wire from this terminal strip to a
on dash 30 amp 250 vac 3-position selector switch that either can connect
the heater unit to the incoming AC power or from a on board DC-AC 5kw
inverter unit.
Connect from the center position of the selector switch to another terminal
point of the terminal strip, then you can connect your heater cord (with the
plug cut off or make a plug into a connector that is wire to the that
terminal point.
My Delco 145 amp 13.5 to 15 volt alternator and a 135 AH Trojan 12 volt deep
cycle battery provides power to 120 Vac 60 hz 5kw inverter.
The advantage I have with these system, is when I am coasting down a hill,
the alternator is still providing power to the heating unit, while the main
motor ampere and battery ampere is setting at 0 amps.
I use to have a on board Honeywell motor generator that provide the DC-AC
power to the heating systems, power steering, and power brakes, but it was
using battery ampere full time and did not provide me with any mechanical
REGEN which I needed to slow this EV down while going down long icy hills.
This system has the same effect as compression braking of a ICE when I apply
as much load as I can on the alternator 12 volt circuits and inverter 120
volt circuits.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deanne Mott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tiny Heater
> Hi Roland,
>
> I'm hoping you can elaborate on your small under the dash heaters?
> I'm wondering what's the brand and model, and also how you hooked them
> up (electrically and mechanically.)
>
> I was about to buy one of the $600 water type EV heaters, but today
> (at 35F outside) I noticed that pretty much only my feet and legs get
> cold on my half hour drive to work. If its really cold I have a 12V
> heated blanket but that makes it awkward to drive, and my feet still
> are cold. Maybe all I need here in NC is one of these little guys
> under the dash at my feet.
>
> thanks very much - De
>
> On 10/30/07, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I am using a under dash heaters that I got from a independent auto parts
> > store. These are known as cab heaters which hang from a bracket under
> > the
> > dash. I have two of them, one for the driver side and one for the
> > passenger
> > side.
> >
> > These units are only 2 to 3 inches high and mine is way back about 1
> > inch
> > from the fire wall, so the circulated air can go into the rear of the
> > heater. I use a on dash 30 amp rated switches to select which heater I
> > want
> > on.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:52:45 -0600
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tiny Heater
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
No, The underdash heater units I am using are metal case and hard wire in.
They require 640 watts at 5.33 amps at 120 volts or 53.3 amps at 12 volts
through a inverter. You need a heavy depth cycle battery and a alternator
to run these units.
The larger one shown may work which is about 12v x 13a = about 156 watts.
It may work, if you preheat with a 12 volt battery charge on for about 60
minutes before you leave.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "M. Barkley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tiny Heater
> Are they something like these heaters? :
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94592
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96144
>
> Not sure if these would put out enough heat, even here
> in the South.
>
>
> --- Deanne Mott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Roland,
> >
> > I'm hoping you can elaborate on your small under the
> > dash heaters?
> > I'm wondering what's the brand and model, and also
> > how you hooked them
> > up (electrically and mechanically.)
> >
> > I was about to buy one of the $600 water type EV
> > heaters, but today
> > (at 35F outside) I noticed that pretty much only my
> > feet and legs get
> > cold on my half hour drive to work. If its really
> > cold I have a 12V
> > heated blanket but that makes it awkward to drive,
> > and my feet still
> > are cold. Maybe all I need here in NC is one of
> > these little guys
> > under the dash at my feet.
> >
> > thanks very much - De
> >
> > On 10/30/07, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > I am using a under dash heaters that I got from a
> > independent auto parts
> > > store. These are known as cab heaters which hang
> > from a bracket under the
> > > dash. I have two of them, one for the driver side
> > and one for the passenger
> > > side.
> > >
> > > These units are only 2 to 3 inches high and mine
> > is way back about 1 inch
> > > from the fire wall, so the circulated air can go
> > into the rear of the
> > > heater. I use a on dash 30 amp rated switches to
> > select which heater I want
> > > on.
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
>
>
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>
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:52:51 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Press release on Firefly "Oasis" battery
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Isn't it more like fully obsolete by end of 2008?
they compare themselves with a 200cycle life but without stating a value
for themselves which to me suggests its only marginally better. so
unless they plan to be super cheap I'm not sure how they could compare
favorably to 2009 lithiums
Dan
Stuart Friedrich and Wendy Lyn wrote:
> They also mention initial availability in the summer of 2008, with full
> production by the end of 2008.
------------------------------
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End of EV Digest, Vol 3, Issue 83
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