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Today's Topics:
1. Saft STM-5-200's (was: Speaking of Voltage Sag) ((-Phil-))
2. Re: Speaking of Voltage Sag (sag on Ni-Cd's) ((-Phil-))
3. Re: Video pictures, write-up (was: KillaCycle 7.82 @168
MPH!!!!) (keith vansickle)
4. Re: Optima Trials and Tribulations (Lawrence Rhodes)
5. EV 1260 PbA Battery Scholium (Panasonic Lead EV1 battery)
Optima information. (Lawrence Rhodes)
6. Re: Optima Battery Information (Lawrence Rhodes)
7. Re: new EV owner with a couple questions....re. high pressure
tires and battery heaters (Lee Hart)
8. Re: Video pictures, write-up, Comments (Bob Rice)
9. Re: Picture of an E-Meter (Link-10) with a serial port?
(Jake Oshins)
10. Re: Optima Battery Information (Bob Rice)
11. Re: Optima Battery Information (Mark Eidson)
12. Re: Video pictures, write-up (Dan Frederiksen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 10:15:41 -0800
From: "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Saft STM-5-200's (was: Speaking of Voltage Sag)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Ok, this post IS for the list:
I could not find a tech manual for the STM-5-200, but I did find one for the
STM-5-180. I extrapolated from that and my charge protocol seems to be
pretty close.
Since these blocks were made for PSA, I'd love to talk to someone in Europe
with a Peugeot/Citroen OEM system running these blocks and how they charge.
I would actually trust an OEM having to warranty batteries before a battery
manufacturer on charging spec. The battery mfg. might be trying to optimize
performance at the expense of life. So their protocols might not be the
absolute best choice for longest life. If you have to replace them in 10
years vs. 20, I'm sure they are happy to oblige.
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Dutko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Speaking of Voltage Sag (sag on Ni-Cd's)
> Phil- Did you read the tech sheets I sent you a while ago? I can
> send you my charge profile if you like for my 5-100's and you can
> compare it to the Saft sheets. Have you done a proper maintenance
> charge yet? If you contact me off line I can share my experiences
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Nov 12, 2007, at 9:38 AM, (-Phil-) wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have any numbers on Saft voltage sag? Is this a
>> reliable way
>> of determining battery health?
>>
>> I'd also love to hear how you are charging. On my STM5-200's I am
>> doing a 2
>> phase charge with the first phase being 48 amps constant current
>> until the
>> voltage per 6v block (at 68 degrees F) reaches 8v, then I switch to
>> a 6.5a
>> constant current that is allowed to run for the same time the first
>> phase
>> ran. So in other words, if it runs @ 48a for 2 hours, then hits 8v/
>> block,
>> then I do an additional 2 hours @ 6.5A to finish the charge.
>>
>> I'll measure my voltage sag correctly and report back. I think I
>> can do a
>> good analysis via the cruising eq. meter's serial port. I assume it
>> works
>> similar to an emeter; just dumping data out.
>>
>> -Phil
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 10:20:46 -0800
From: "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Speaking of Voltage Sag (sag on Ni-Cd's)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Thanks Philippe!
I think I am seeing much more than that, but I'll have to do some more
accurate testing. Seems like the larger STM5-200's would sag less, but
maybe I'm wrong.
I assume you are doing this test at a full SOC?
And I do have an AH counter. The charger has one, and I have the KWH+ meter
in the vehicle. A full charge seems to end up adding anywhere from about 8
to 15% more AH than removed.
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "vehiculeselectriques.free.fr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Speaking of Voltage Sag (sag on Ni-Cd's)
> Hi Phil,
>
> On my 120V100Ah pack made of STM5-100MRE i see a 10V sag at max 215A
> controller rate
>
> The only way to know their today health is a capacity test at 1C rate.
>
> Your charging profile is ok, Ah counter would be even better though.
>
> regards,
> Philippe
>
> 2007/11/12, (-Phil-) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>
>> Does anyone have any numbers on Saft voltage sag? Is this a reliable
>> way
>> of determining battery health?
>>
>> I'd also love to hear how you are charging. On my STM5-200's I am doing
>> a
>> 2
>> phase charge with the first phase being 48 amps constant current until
>> the
>> voltage per 6v block (at 68 degrees F) reaches 8v, then I switch to a
>> 6.5a
>> constant current that is allowed to run for the same time the first phase
>> ran. So in other words, if it runs @ 48a for 2 hours, then hits
>> 8v/block,
>> then I do an additional 2 hours @ 6.5A to finish the charge.
>>
>> I'll measure my voltage sag correctly and report back. I think I can do
>> a
>> good analysis via the cruising eq. meter's serial port. I assume it
>> works
>> similar to an emeter; just dumping data out.
>>
>> -Phil
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 10:27:05 -0800 (PST)
From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Video pictures, write-up (was: KillaCycle 7.82
@168 MPH!!!!)
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I concur Flash Dube fits....BTW why didn't you have
that "low Quality" vidio on when the Flasher came by.
Also I wouldn't give the list troll the satisfaction
of a response.
Keith
--- Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Stu n" or "Stare" might be closer to the truth. :-)
>
>
> At 04:11 AM 11/12/2007, you wrote:
> >Bill,
> >
> >Congratulations on the your awesome runs.
> Considering the times and
> >speed, together with your "backstage" incident
> after the race, I wonder
> >if your nickname should be "FLASH!".
> >
> >Shawn Lawless
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> >Sent: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 12:07 am
> >Subject: [EVDL] Video pictures, write-up (was:
> KillaCycle 7.82 @168
> >MPH!!!!)
> >
> >
> >
> >Video is here:
> >
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHtAkM3CYLA
> >
> >and here:
> >
> >http://www.youtube.com/v/_BqpMD64ZGg
> >
> >There are pictures, write up and cell-phone video
> here:
> >
> >http://futuredrive.wordpress.com/
> >
> >You can see a few words from my perspective on the
> KillaCycle site
> >http://www.KillaCycle.com
> >
> >Bill Dube'
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >For subscription options, see
> >http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
>
>________________________________________________________________________
> >Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check
> out free AOL Mail! -
> >http://mail.aol.com
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >For subscription options, see
> >http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 10:37:56 -0800
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Optima Trials and Tribulations
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
One thing to remember is the current YT's are not the ones that John Wayland
used inthe good old days. I would not recommend Yellow Tops anymore.
Lawrence Rhodes......
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 10:40:54 -0800
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] EV 1260 PbA Battery Scholium (Panasonic Lead EV1
battery) Optima information.
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks to Doug Korthol for this information.
EV 1260 PbA Battery Scholium (Panasonic Lead EV1 battery)
Posted by: "doug korthof" [EMAIL PROTECTED] live_oil_free
Date: Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:33 pm ((PST))
It's my opinion that the Panasonic EC-EV 1260 lead-acid battery,
used in the 1999 EV1 and to upgrade the 1997 EV1, is forbidden to US
purchasers.
The excellent Panasonic EV-EV 1260 "PbA" (lead chemical symbol is
Pb, and A stands for Acid) is a very high quality VRLA (Valve
Regulated Lead Acid) battery that has resilience, high enough power
to put out over 300 Amps (100 kW at 360v), enough energy for 100
miles range, lasts longer than 50,000 miles, and had more power than
the lower-quality Ovonics NiMH. We were not the only EV1 drivers
who had both an upgraded 1997 and a 1999, and noticed that, after
about 50K miles, the range was not much different on both!
These "PbA" batteries would be perfect for conversions; the EV
person with the most battery knowledge, Jeff Thomas, of
http://EVBones.com
could probably use them for upgrades to the S-10E and RangerEV.
It turns out that the RangerEV burns out the EV-95 NiMH batteries
via excessive power draw (thanks to the bonehead Ballard Controller,
perhaps) so the best bet is to take the NiMH batteries out of the
RangerEV and replace with good lead-acid batteries. I have a need
for 54 of them, and would take a container at any time.
PEVE vs. PSB
------------
While the excellent Panasonic EV-95 105 Amp-hour Nickel Metal
Hydride battery went into production in 1997, it was built by the
Panasonic EV Energy Co., Ltd. ("PEVE"), not Panasonic Storage
Battery Co., Ltd. Hence, PEVE made the excellent EV-95 NiMH
battery. This battery was killed, the production line stopped,
after Chevron funded the lawsuit against Toytoa, Panasonic, Sanyo et
al.
The excellent EC-EV 1260 PbA battery was produced by Panasonic
Storage Battery Co., Ltd. ("PSB"), not PEVE.
EC-EV 1260 joined the Optima YT on the crushing yard floor
----------------------------------------------------------
After the demise of the EV1, and concurrent with the "settlement
agreement" that was imposed via the Chevron-funded lawsuit, the EC-
EV 1260 battery also seems to have been removed from production.
There does not seem to be any real reason for them going out of
production other than that they now lacked a customer, since GM no
longer needed the batteries. Of course, PSB didn't go out of its
way looking for new customers, either!
At about this same time, when "they" (whoever "they" happen to be)
were shutting down EV batteries, Johnson Controls, which may be
regarded as a GM associate, purchased and "de-rated" the Optima
Yellow Top, the other standards excellent battery for EV conversions.
So with the demise of the EC-EV 1260 and the Optima YT, there was no
battery available for high-quality conversions. You might say, the
oilies were covering ALL bases!
EC-EV 1260 PSB BATTERY BECOMES THE EC-FV 1260
"dumbed down" hybrid battery
---------------------------------------------
A hybrid battery has different power requirements than an EV
battery. For slow and continuous discharge, an RV or marine battery
suffices; but if you try to use them on an EV, it won't work. The
EV draws too much current, too much "power", and even though that
battery has a lot of slow, trickle energy, it doesn't have the
ability to run an EV without help of an IC engine.
In 2004, GM came out with the "wrong-way hybrid" Silverado and
Sierra pickup trucks. This "mild" hybrid has a 36v battery pack
instead of the normal 12v. The engine would shut off when coming to
a stop, and start automatically, supposedly; but the big draw was
supposed to be that the 36v battery could run your power tools. You
could leave the engine on, and could supposedly run power from it
for up to 36 hours.
Who would WANT such a thing was unclear. Like the GM "dual mode"
hybrid, it played to a demographic that does not exist. Contractors
generally run, for serious work, a convenience electric tap to run
their construction site; the most modern have the mast for that tap
mounted on their porta-potty!
So who would buy that "wrong-way hybrid"? Maybe guys who wanted to
run out to the lake, set up a movie projector and a kegger, and
spend the weekend? Anyway, it didn't sell, just as the dual-mode
won't sell without subsidies. It's tough when there's no buyers!
I think these trucks used a new version of the PSB EC-EV 1260,
perhaps dumbed-down for lower power.
"...[we produced] EC-EV1260 type battery. But this model is little
old [and has been superceded by the] new EC-FV1260...more
suitable...for cyclic application..."
Apparently, Panasonic supplied these FV 1260 batteries for the
Silverado and Sierra pickups. But they were altered from the
original so that they are more suited for being a battery assist for
an IC engine, and don't have the ability to put out the great bursts
of power that the former EV1260 was able to do.
To cap it all, rumor has it that GM parts suppliers refused to sell
the batteries for the "wrong-way hybrid" except 3 at a time, and you
had to give them the VIN number!
DON'T GIVE UP HOPE
------------------
An inquiry has been made to PSB, asking for availability, pricing
and spec sheet for the EC-FV 1260 (if the EC-EV 1260 is not
available).
The big thing on the spec sheet is a thing called the "C" number.
You look at a 50 amp-hour battery, and you need to know the "C"
numbers to evaluate it.
While this is not something that we, as drivers, really want to get
into too much, basically it is a measure of how fast you can get
that energy out of the battery.
Energy = Power * Time, intuitively, or kWh=kW*h (kilo-Watt-hours
equals kilo-Watts times hours)
The "C" numbers affect the discharge curve, and also the cycle-
life. Intuitively, if you beat up the batteries with fast
discharges, they don't last as long.
The "C" number is given as "C/10" or "C/1". The number after the C
is how many hours it takes to completely exhaust the battery at a
constant current.
For example, if you buy a 12v battery rated "50 Amp-hours", you need
to know the rate of discharge it will sustain. One such table might
be:
At C/1, one hour discharge, it may only be rated at 20 Amp-hours.
At C/10, 10 hour much slower discharge, the same battery may be
rated at 40 Amp-hours.
At C/15, 15 hour normal discharge, the same battery may be rated 50
Amp-hours.
The kWh content would be:
At C/1 20 Amp-hours times 12v or 240 Watt-hours, 0.240 kWh
At C/10 40 Amp-hours times 12v or 480 Watt-hours, 0.480 kWh
At C/15 50 Amp-hours times 12v or 600 Watt-hours, 0.600 kWh
So if you purchse a battery pack of 20 slow-discharge batteries, and
try to use it for running an EV, you may be surprised how little
energy is available.
AT C/15: 20 times .600 is 12 kWh but power is only 12/15 kW, an EV
needs at least 10 kW to run.
AT C/1: 20 times .240 is 4.8 kWh power is 4.8/1 kW, still not
enough to run an EV.
Instead, we need a battery with C/1 of at least 40, in this
example. And for sharp acceleration, we need to be able to draw
power in bursts of up to 150 kW.
These "fractional" C numbers, like C/10, are sometimes written .1
C. They are used for gentle discharges of normal batteries.
That's .1 C, for low Current draw, taking 10 hours to exhaust the
battery.
A discharge rate faster than one hour can be written as 2 C, meaning
twice the C/1 rating. 10 C would be similarly 10 times the C/1
rating.
JUST AN EXAMPLE.
This is messy, and the notation is designed to confuse the unwary
non-technical drivers, like us, but it all boils down to the very
simple idea that the battery pack has to be designed to put out a
large amount of ENERGY (kWh) in a short period of time, otherwise,
you will not get the performance you paid for. That's the
definition of POWER (kW).
And in this case, if the EC-FV 1260 has been modified for slow
discharge, then it would be pretty useless for conversions. And
that seems to be the import of the EC-FV 1260 description; but I'll
have to see the spec sheet to be sure.
We wait on PSB. So far, there is no reasonable PbA battery for
conversions, except for golf-cart batteries (universally flooded-
cell, which is OK, but you have to add water from time to time) and
some hope for FIREFLY or other PbA batteries.
All we really need, as I stated to the CARB back in 2002 or so, is
the 1997 EV1, with those wonderful Panasonic PbA batteries. But we
have no proof that it even existed, all evidence was destroyed.
CARB and GM would not even allow us to purchase that wonderful car,
that was all we would have asked, we would be driving it still,
assuming they didn't cut off the PbA battery supply.
A shadow on GM's credibility, casting doubt on their claims for the
VOLT.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 10:43:55 -0800
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Optima Battery Information
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
The best info on Optimas is from John Wayland. As far as I know just keep
away from Optimas unless you already have some. The current batteries are
no good for EV use. Lawrence Rhodes.......
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 13:52:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] new EV owner with a couple questions....re. high
pressure tires and battery heaters
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Steve Robertson wrote:
> Geo Metro EV... I have heard that high pressure tires would be
> helpful but haven't found any info yet...
True low rolling resistance tires are rare. Most buyers care more about looks
and price. The tire companies cater to this. Everything you find in a tire
store are normal- or high- rolling resistance tires.
The auto companies sometimes order special low rolling resistance tires for
cars that they want to advertise as having especially good gas mileage (the
Toyota Prius and Honda Insight for example). But they both happen to use 14"
tires. I don't know of any recent car that uses 13". You could get these tires
from an older car that had the right size, but they are likely to be old and
worn out.
Solectria used 13" on their Geo Metro (Solectria Force) and Sunrise EV. They
were efficiency nuts, and so probably went to some pains to find the lowest
rolling resistance tires they could. You could scout around to see exactly what
they used, and maybe find some with low enough miles to be useful.
> also told that a battery heater might be helpful.
Yes, it will if your batteries are getting cold. They like to be at the same
temperatures you find comfortable; around 70-80 deg.F. If they are colder, your
range and acceleration will suffer.
The easiest way to keep them warm is to put them in insulated boxes. 1/2" to 1"
of low density Styrofoam(tm) is sufficient. It will trap the waste heat the
batteries create during charging and driving to keep the batteries warm. Unless
you live in a climate that is below freezing or you don't drive your EV for
days at a time, this is sufficient all by itself. In warm weather, just remove
some of the foam or add a small cooling fan.
If you need more heat, you can add a heater for the batteries. If they are
insulated, it won't take much; 100 watts or so is often enough. I live in
Minnesota, where it gets *really* cold. I have about 1" of Styrafoam(tm) and a
75 watt heating pad under the six batteries in each battery box. The heating
pad came from J.C. Whitney for about $20. It is intended to wrap around a
single car/truck battery; I took it apart and spread the heating wire inside
over the entire floor of my battery box, and laid a sheet of aluminum on top of
it as a heat spreader.
--
"Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 13:54:30 -0500
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Video pictures, write-up, Comments
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Frederiksen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Video pictures, write-up
> will you be paying me to develop and open source controller then..
> Hah! Will you be giving them away, for free? Whythehell not?! I have been
> holding my tongue on this thread.I was a bit of a loss for words, at the
> first post. Most who know me know that I'm not usually at a loss for
> words<g>!Just got back from grocery gettin' of course by EV!THINKING of a
> clever response, Jim H and Bill D pretty much covered what I had in mind
> saying. I will defend my wanting to donate to Bill and crew because of
> WHAT they have done. See? No secrets?;He was asked and TOLD somebody what
> his gear ratio was, so THERE!! If you asked nicely YOU would probably have
> a FREE controller desighn, by now? All you would have to do is BUILD it.
> IF you COULD or would??!!Your intentions are good, it's just that
> bulldozer you run over people' feelings, asking for designs!
> regarding A123, do they pay you anything beyond supplying the cells?
> CHRIST! What do ya want?? They were damn nice to sponsor him!! Those packs
> arent cheap.
Other Listers reading this, I don't need to mention names, gave me
some money to procure stuff locally for their project. I had a bit of money
left over and they said to "go get a cuppa coffee at Starbux" Hell, I'm
keeping it going as I'm adding it to the donation to Bill. Were all Family,
I don't think Dan has cought the drift here?OK you CHOOSE your friends you
are stuck with your family<g>, I have heard that said..But I consider the
List as a extended friendly, like family, bunch.I can put faces with most
names here as I have met and wrenched with some on here.
There are, what? 1400 guyz and a few gals on here, EVerybody ELSE
congrats Bill and Crew. And I thank you ALL, good comments here!
OK down from my battery(Soap) box for now. Let's go to the Races and have
some fun!
Seeya at WhatEVer EVent I can afford!
Bob....quietly driving electric EVery day!
PAGING BILL D. HIT ME BACK OFF LIST IF YA WOULD?
> Dan
>
>
> Bill Dube wrote:
>> Show me the money!!!!
>>
>> I was pitting this bike ALL BY MYSELF!!! Everyone on the crew was out
>> of vacation and out of money to travel (including me.)
>>
>> Quit whining and typing and get out there and actually
>> accomplish something.
>>
>> Ahhh! He probably wasn't EVen BORN yet when I started EVing?
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 10:56:32 -0800
From: "Jake Oshins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Picture of an E-Meter (Link-10) with a serial
port?
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Lee Hart said:
> Nicads need to be restrained so they don't swell. They
> usually put them in a rigid metal box, or stack them up
> and put a plate on each end with steel bands to keep
> them under pressure.
Do you expect NiMH to need the same restraint as NiCd?
Thanks,
Jake Oshins
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:07:53 -0500
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Optima Battery Information
To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Electric Vehicle
Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Optima Battery Information
> The best info on Optimas is from John Wayland. As far as I know just keep
> away from Optimas unless you already have some. The current batteries are
> no good for EV use. Lawrence Rhodes.......
>
Sigh! They sure WERE nive, though. Squeaky clean, they looked great in
a battery box, like in John Wayland's fleet of EV's. No more gloppy ,weepy ,
crud on the batteries. EVen though I wash mine, build my battery wracks open
to being able to wash things out now and again.
So, until we can ALL aFford A123's ARE there any Good Optima style
sealed type badd-eries for Optima withdrawl symtoms?I thought Opties would
be ideal for a lite Freedom EV or, hell, Sunrise type thing. Seal them up,
feed them with Bat Regs and live happily EVer after?
Seeya
Bob
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> --
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------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 12:16:29 -0700
From: "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Optima Battery Information
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
How about
http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc1500.htm
me
On 11/12/07, Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 1:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Optima Battery Information
>
>
> > The best info on Optimas is from John Wayland. As far as I know just keep
> > away from Optimas unless you already have some. The current batteries are
> > no good for EV use. Lawrence Rhodes.......
> >
> Sigh! They sure WERE nive, though. Squeaky clean, they looked great in
> a battery box, like in John Wayland's fleet of EV's. No more gloppy ,weepy ,
> crud on the batteries. EVen though I wash mine, build my battery wracks open
> to being able to wash things out now and again.
>
> So, until we can ALL aFford A123's ARE there any Good Optima style
> sealed type badd-eries for Optima withdrawl symtoms?I thought Opties would
> be ideal for a lite Freedom EV or, hell, Sunrise type thing. Seal them up,
> feed them with Bat Regs and live happily EVer after?
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
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> > --
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.28/1023 - Release Date:
> > 9/22/2007 1:27 PM
> >
> >
>
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:24:25 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Video pictures, write-up
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I never said free Zeke and you might notice I haven't asked for any
money. that was sort of my point...
I am paying for it.
Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> On Nov 12, 2007 9:04 AM, Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> will you be paying me to develop and open source controller then..
>>
>
> No. Controllers need to be cheap, which means that you need to donate
> all of your time to develop the open source controller. You are not
> allowed to recoup your development costs by actually charging for the
> controller either.... I seem to remember you saying this at some
> point.....
>
>> regarding A123, do they pay you anything beyond supplying the cells?
>>
>> Dan
>>
>
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End of EV Digest, Vol 4, Issue 31
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