Send EV mailing list submissions to
ev@lists.sjsu.edu
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can reach the person managing the list at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of EV digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: ADC nameplate question (Jim Husted)
2. Re: Absolute max input voltage of the Z1K-HV? (Steven Ciciora)
3. Re: Thunder Sky Batteries (Peter VanDerWal)
4. Re: ADC nameplate question (Jeff Major)
5. Mini-Spare on Porsche 914 (Jeff Shanab)
6. Re: Protecting a Controller from moisture (Jeff Shanab)
7. zivan Instructions on ebay - scam or real?
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
8. Re: Prestolite MKB4003A (Jeff Major)
9. Re: zivan Instructions on ebay - scam or real? (Ben)
10. Re: A123 to sell plug-in packs (Bob Rice)
11. Smooth Driving (Mark Hanson)
12. Charger (Bob Rice)
13. EC-FV 1260 Panasonic Storage Battery specs 50% more amp
hours. (Lawrence Rhodes)
14. News from Valence (Osmo S.)
15. Re: zivan Instructions on ebay - scam or real? (Roger Stockton)
16. Re: EV (or parts) for sale (San Francisco Bay Area)
(Steven Sandoval)
17. Re: new EV owner with a couple questions....re. high pressure
tires and battery heaters (R. Matt Milliron)
18. Re: Absolute max input voltage of the Z1K-HV? (Roger Stockton)
19. Re: Battery tab welder and Ebikes (Rod Hower)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 04:26:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ADC nameplate question
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hey Frank
That's an Underwriters Lab number (or so I've been
told). Not all, but lots of motors have an AU number
stamped into them and just says it's passed certain
tests.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 04:58:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Absolute max input voltage of the Z1K-HV?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Thanks everyone for your comments. I think I need to
shoot off an email to get an answer straight from the
source. By the way, I forgot to mention, when looking
around at the CafeElectric.com web site, I noticed
Otmar updated his Production Blog on Nov. 11th, for
those interested in knowing what's going on over
there.
For what it's worth, when I was in Oregon at PIR,
Otmar told me that the absolute max he currently
recommends for the EHV version is 374 volts, which
works nicely with 110 A123 cells in series. On the
Killacycle we charge up the pack to around 400V (to
fully charge all cells quicker) and then hook up a
space heater to burn down the pack to 3.4 volts per
cell, or 374V. We have found that the A123 cells have
their lowest impedance at this voltage, and don't have
much energy above 3.4V. So even if we left the cells
at a higher voltage, they would sag more, and would be
darn near 3.4V anyway after the burnout. Otmar said
that the Zilla will limit duty cycle above 374V, and
above this voltage is pushing the limits of the DC-DC
converter on the gate driver board. The TI part (the
DC-DC converter) has a minimum pulse width that it
can't make any shorter, and above 374V, it can't
regulate the output and it starts drifting up. Yet
another reason why we stay at 374V on an EHV Zilla.
But, my truck is going to get a Z1K-HV, which is the
reason for my questions.
Thanks again everyone, your comments are going to make
me a bit more cautious. I'm not sure how close I am
going to try to get to whatever max voltage limit
Otmar recommends, so one thing I might consider is
using the heater to burn down the pack voltage if
necessary, and run the fan in reverse in the summer,
to blow hot air outside the car. Of course this will
likely require a different fan, or a secondary fan,
and likely completely replacing a lot of the ducts,
etc.
- Steven Ciciora
--- Matt Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> My experience is that, as advertised, 300V nominal
> is the maximum you can
> use with the -HV model. I've been running the Z2K-HV
> at 300V in Joule
> Injected for a couple years now. The maximum voltage
> is typically on the
> order of 325V or so when starting out, and at this
> voltage, I've never had
> any problem.
>
> However, there have been times when the voltage has
> been higher on startup
> after a good equalization charge. At these times,
> I've noticed that the
> Hairball will not engage the main contactor
> initially. This also occurs when
> the under-hood temperature is higher, like when I
> try to start the car after
> it's been baking in the Florida sun all day. When
> this happens, I've had to
> turn the car back off, then on again, and the
> contactor engages.
>
> I brought this up with Otmar almost two years ago
> and he suggested that it
> may be a good idea to upgrade to the -EHV model.
> Since my batteries are in
> terrible shape anyway, and the voltage doesn't get
> that high anymore, there
> hasn't been a need to do that.
>
> Steve, my advice would be to not exceed the 300V
> nominal with the -HV model.
>
> Matt Graham
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of Roger Stockton
> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 6:54 PM
> To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Absolute max input voltage of
> the Z1K-HV?
>
> Roland Wiench wrote:
>
> > I talk to Otmar some time back in 2004 when I got
> the Z1K-HV
> > controller, to see how high a battery pack voltage
> I can put
> > on this controller. It is recommended to not go
> over charge
> > battery volts to this controller, even though I
> think he said
> > some of the components may be rated for 350 volts.
>
> I think there is some misunderstanding. The HV is
> spec'ed for 72-300V
> *nominal* battery voltage, which clearly says to me
> that it is completely
> reasonable to connect a 300V pack to a Zilla -HV
> model.
>
> 350V-rated parts would be woefully inadequate for a
> controller with a 300V
> nominal upper limit; I expect this controller would
> use 400V caps and even
> higher voltage switches. This allows for a peak
> charge voltage of about
> 2.67V/cell with a 300V nominal pack.
>
> In the Zilla manual it clearly states that the -EHV
> accepts 72-348V nominal
> and 36-400V fully loaded. 400V corresponds to
> 2.3V/cell for a 348V nominal
> pack. The 348V maximum nominal battery voltage
> suggests 500V caps to me
> (2.7V/cell peak charge voltage for a 348V nominal
> pack is 470V). Similarly,
> the LV's 156V maximum nominal battery voltage
> suggests 200V caps.
>
> A 'Zilla is enough of an investment that I would
> strongly recommend putting
> the question to Otmar directly if you are
> considering pushing the controller
> to its absolute maximum limits.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 07:43:36 -0700 (MST)
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Thunder Sky Batteries
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Thundersky has a reputation of selling crap to their customers. The only
person I've heard of that has managed to get good cells (reliably) has to
go to china and hand select each cell. From what I understand they still
find cells that are bad, yet have managed to pass Thunder Sky's quality
control.
Of course that makes me wonder what happens to the rejects, based on past
experience they probably sell them to customers that DON'T go to china and
hand select their cells.
>
> Hello -
>
> Is there any recent experience with the Thunder Sky products?
>
> Particularly the LFP 90ah
>
> http://www.thunder-sky.com/pdf/200725164728.pdf
>
> MODEL NO???TS-LFP90AHA
>
> Nominal Capacity ???90AH
> Operating Voltage???2.5V???4.25V
> weight???3kg??100g
> Dimensions???145??220??68???mm???
>
> There is a lot of OLD experience with Thunder Sky and their products. I
> am
> looking for a reasonable battery pack that I can afford and that will
> provide the power and safety to make my EV a viable vehicle.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Thunder-Sky-Batteries-tf4801998s25542.html#a13739441
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 06:28:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ADC nameplate question
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Jim, Frank,
Yeah, the AU number is the UL file which the
manufacture has developed with UL in order to meet
certain UL specifications or standards. The AU number
will be specific to a manufacture and/or product line.
If needed, one could use this to find the standard,
such as for industrial battery electric trucks such as
forklifts. The standard would be used industry wide,
such as UL583.
Jeff M
--- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey Frank
>
> That's an Underwriters Lab number (or so I've been
> told). Not all, but lots of motors have an AU
> number
> stamped into them and just says it's passed certain
> tests.
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 06:34:04 -0800
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Mini-Spare on Porsche 914
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
short answer: real 3 piece rims!
When I was racing my mitsubishi, I bought 3 piece rims from a
road-race supplier. Two "bells" and a centerallowing me to get any
pattern and offset I needed*. I got the center undrilled then threw it
on the mill, drilled the holes and pressed in the provided inserts to
protect the aluminum from the lug nuts. For racing, An o-ring was
dropped into the groove created between the two bells. I didn't put it
on a tire machine as these were ultra-light rims, I assembled them
around the tires. For regular use a bead of silicon is used during assembly.
* talk about crazy. 5" front bell 4" rear bell 13" rims. LOL 13x9's ;
looked like skateboard wheels. This was to change the gear-ratio enough
to allow 2-3 instead of 1-2 gears in an autocross class where changing
tha actual gear ratios was against the rules.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 06:41:46 -0800
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Protecting a Controller from moisture
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/
Have a look under the heading "Putting the Zilla in a box". I got a
bender from harbor freight and some sheet aluminum and bent it up. The
bender they provide is junk, I would recommend instead taking the design
and cut metal to a real shop like an AC shop and have it bent for you.
(My zilla got wet and blew the internal 15V supply. It would run for 60
seconds at a time then stop. then died completely. Otmar fixed this with
a short turnaround and under warantee even though it really was my poor
installation. Thats Service!)
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 09:36:20 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] zivan Instructions on ebay - scam or real?
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I saw this on ebay today.
item# 320182487591
Does anyone know if this is a legitimate offer or what is really going on?
who would have developed such an item?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320182487591&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123
Ben
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 06:56:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Prestolite MKB4003A
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hi John,
I see Jim has responded with his usual wisdom. I'll
give you my opinion as I am familiar with the motor.
MKB motors were designed for hi power lift pumps on
fork trucks. The long comm and 12 brush rig allowed
something like 500 amps on a short duty cycle. Worked
well.
Sounds like you are considering it for an EV. It is a
great motor. Much like the MTC. Both have the 33
slot armature. MTC a 7 inch stack, MKB a 6. Both
series wound. MKB will be a bit faster than MTC. So,
when looking at increased voltage, you will need to
keep a close eye on RPM. Also, the MKB with the 12
brushes will have more brush friction than MTC with 8.
Another consideration with the 12 brush motor is that
you may see brush wear which is greater than you'd
have with the 8 brush motor. Sound odds, but when
brushes run at too low a current density, they can
fail to film the comm and wear faster. A down side to
using a motor designed for intermittent duty for more
of a continuous application.
But, all that probably won't really bother you too
much. You have to put a lot of miles on your EV to
wear out brushes. I think MKB would make a great
drive motor. Just watch those RPM.
And, it probably has a 9 tooth internal spline.
And, it probably has the standard Prestolite 4.5
degree advance for unidirectional pump motors.
Good luck,
Jeff M
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Does anyone have any information on a Prestolite MKB
> 4003A motor? I am
> planning on scraping a boomlift and it has this
> motor on it for the main
> hydraulics. The documentation for the lift claim 10
> hp at 36 volts. I am
> thinking of going to either 120 or 144 volts. Would
> quadrupling the volts
> to 144 get the motor up around 40 hp?
>
> I haven't pulled the pump off the front end, but I
> expect it will have an
> internal spline that will have to be adapted or
> possibly the shaft replaced.
> It looks interesting as it has moderately sized
> triple brushes so should
> handle quite a bit of current.
>
> It is only a two terminal motor but it does run CW
> on ODE and could work
> with a transmission or add the extra terminals for
> electrical reverse.
>
> Jim, do you need some winter work?
>
> respectfully,
> John Neiswanger
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 10:21:41 -0500
From: Ben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] zivan Instructions on ebay - scam or real?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
No clue on that exact offer, but my understanding from emails around
here is that a Zivan charger has a preprogrammed charging profile.
These "murdered" batteries may be packs charged by a Zivan with the
wrong profile. In other words, problem is with the user, not the
charger.. Maybe they have some technique for getting the charger
closer to the right profile, but I think it would be simpler to get
your charger to a Zivan dealer for reprogramming.
On Nov 14, 2007 9:36 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I saw this on ebay today.
> item# 320182487591
>
> Does anyone know if this is a legitimate offer or what is really going on?
> who would have developed such an item?
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320182487591&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123
>
> Ben
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:29:18 -0500
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] A123 to sell plug-in packs
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peri Hartman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "evdl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 1:10 AM
Subject: [EVDL] A123 to sell plug-in packs
> This is the first I've heard specifically that A123 will sell to the
> general public! According to Newsweek, 19Nov07 edition, an article on
> page 37 says
>
> ... Starting next year, A123 will sell its battery to hybrid owners who
> want to convert their cars to plug-ins... The estimated price tag of
> $10,000 for the conversion will be too steep for most individuals, so
> company executives [of A123] expect their main customers will be
> government or corporate hybrid fleets...
>
> Well, some specifics would be nice, but this seems to indicate that A123
> will not go the way of Ovonic
Hi EVerybody;
As the baseball guy once said: "It ain't over, til it's over" As
promising battery tech come down the road, it probably be snapped up and
buried, like Ovonic?Although there IS a tad more recognigition that we are
at a chisis point. MAYBE it won't be as blatent as WKtEC pointed out? Oil
co's have PLENTY of money, and nothing can stop them, IF they feel it's a
threat? This is reality.
Seeya
Bob
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:36:41 -0500
From: Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Smooth Driving
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi,
BTW, thanks for the help on the mini-spare, I liked Keith's approach to cutting
out the center of a VW rim & welding it into a mini-spare to fit the VW 4x130mm.
If you drive at 150A average and use say 16 batteries (like me) at .004 ohms
internal resistance with .004689 ohms for 30' of number 2 wire (#2) then that's
.068 ohms overall.
So at a constant 150A I squared R losses are 1530W
Or if you drive 50% at 300W and coast (like hilly terrain) then the losses are
6120 x 50% = 3060W
Or if you do it at 450A for a 3rd of the time, wattage losses go up by 3X .
So you can see smooth driving is the best for electric or fuel economy.
This relationship also applies to the buck converter side of the controller
with pulsed current between the motor and control. That's why you double the
size of the wire from the motor to the control and keep as short as possible
(for EMI too).
Also Bill Dube did a super job breaking the record in the 7's and pushing the
technology for EVeryone's benifit!
I enjoyed seeing the youtube video, didn't see the well endowed lady though.
It would be neat to race but I just plod to work everyday in my lowly EV
commuter vehicles displacing some pollution I guess.
have a renewable energy day,
See ya at EVS-23,
Mark
_________________________________________________________________
Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:40:43 -0500
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Charger
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi EVerybody;
Anybody got lying around, a 90 volt on board charger, that WORKS full
time, unlike my K and W in my older Sentra? 120 volts in and about 90 out. I
THINK it would rise to 110 volts when the car is fully charged?Wanna part
with it? I'll give it a loving home. Hit me back. Or anybody actiually FIX K
and W's?
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] A123 to sell plug-in packs
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peri Hartman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "evdl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 1:10 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] A123 to sell plug-in packs
>
>
>> This is the first I've heard specifically that A123 will sell to the
>> general public! According to Newsweek, 19Nov07 edition, an article on
>> page 37 says
>>
>> ... Starting next year, A123 will sell its battery to hybrid owners who
>> want to convert their cars to plug-ins... The estimated price tag of
>> $10,000 for the conversion will be too steep for most individuals, so
>> company executives [of A123] expect their main customers will be
>> government or corporate hybrid fleets...
>>
>> Well, some specifics would be nice, but this seems to indicate that A123
>> will not go the way of Ovonic
>
> Hi EVerybody;
>
> As the baseball guy once said: "It ain't over, til it's over" As
> promising battery tech come down the road, it probably be snapped up and
> buried, like Ovonic?Although there IS a tad more recognigition that we are
> at a chisis point. MAYBE it won't be as blatent as WKtEC pointed out? Oil
> co's have PLENTY of money, and nothing can stop them, IF they feel it's a
> threat? This is reality.
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.28/1023 - Release Date:
> 9/22/2007 1:27 PM
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 09:57:54 -0800
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] EC-FV 1260 Panasonic Storage Battery specs 50% more
amp hours.
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks to Doug on the electricvehiclesforsale list.
If this is true you can add 50 % to your lead acid range. Higher voltage &
better form factor for EV's I can fit 8 of these under my back seat where my
gas tank used to be. That means I can get 18 of them into my car with out
cutting any metal. up to 29 with a back end modification. IF these are
the same as the advanced lead Panasonic previously made this is a good day
for EV range. Lawrence Rhodes.
EC-FV 1260 Panasonic Storage Battery specs
Posted by: "doug korthof" [EMAIL PROTECTED] live_oil_free
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:31 pm ((PST))
APOLOGIES for posting this "DIY" OT stuff on this group, but it's
important to possibly getting some production NEV and conversions a
good supply of batteries.
-----------------------------------------------
I cannot find a copy of the former spec sheet for the EC-EV 1260 PbA
battery, hopefully one will turn up. But the new, successor battery
spec sheet is at:
http://panasonic.co.jp/mbi/psb/products/en/ev_lead/fv1260.html
These batteries are priced around 20K yen, or less than $200 per
module (right now the yen is at 110/dollar, which would make it
$180; if the yen attained parity, it would be $200; two weeks ago,
the yen was much lower, and it would have been $160).
The EV1 used 26 EC-EV 1260 modules, so the price of a pack would be
about $6000, including installation. I'd need 28 of them for the
GOLF AC-150 conversion, so a little more.
Here are relevant parts of the specs for the new EC-FV 1260 PbA:
Length 388mm (appx. 15.3") (about 5" longer than YT)
Width 116mm (appx. 4.56") (less than YT)
Height 175mm (appx. 6.9") (less than YT)
[For comparison, the Optima YT is 10"x6.8"x7.8" (len x width x ht)]
Nominal capacity 60Ah
Capacity 25?C
1/3C ( 20A) 52Ah (Three hour discharge)
1C ( 60A) 43Ah (One hour)
3C (180A) 34Ah (20 minutes, enough for 100 kW output, that's all
the EV1 had, this would be hard acceleration or strictly uphill, not
something you'd ever do except intermittent for beating SUV).
This battery looks very possible, to me, but the engineers may have
more to say about it.
Weigth About 21kg (appx. 46.2 lb.)
The optima YT D34 weighs 43.8 lb.
FV 1260 surface area: 70 sq. in.
YT surface area: 68 sq. in.
So it would be a tight fit getting these into the Tom Gage battery
box on the GOLF. The 28-module pack weighs about 1350 lbs., don't
know if Bob Siebert's conversion would work.
Doug
562-430-2495
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:22:26 +0200
From: "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] News from Valence
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
"We are launching our third generation of programmable energy storage
solutions, Epoch, the first week of December at EVS-23 and shipments
will begin first quarter 2008.
Epoch offers the Power of Lithium, Safety of Phosphate and Optimized
Energy Storage of our intelligent packs. Epoch is safe, rugged and
reliable with a cycle life of three to four times lithium cobalt. The
Epoch family contains no heavy metals and can be easily scaled up to
650V/390KWh with our programmable third generation logic. "
-Osmo
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 10:47:09 -0800
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] zivan Instructions on ebay - scam or real?
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I saw this on ebay today.
> item# 320182487591
>
> Does anyone know if this is a legitimate offer or what is
> really going on? who would have developed such an item?
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=32018248759
> 1&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123
I'd stay away from it. I believe the seller is the same guy who offers battery
rejuvenation services. If I'm correct, he has experience with exactly one
sample of the Zivan charger (one which came with a CEV S10 conversion he bought
second or third hand). It would have been set up by CEV for flooded 6VGC
batteries and this resourceful individual instead used it to charge a pack of
mismatched U1-size sealed batteries that had been scavenged and 'rejuvenated'.
I expect that any tips he would offer would only be useful to someone planning
to misapply a Zivan NG3 similarly grossly. ;^>
As I recall, you are running a pack of 6V floodeds; if so, and you have a
Zivan, then you have no need to tame it. The Zivan reputation for
overcharging/murdering batteries is based on them performing a full 2A for 1hr
finish on Optima AGMs every single charge cycle, no matter how shallow or deep.
Doing this to a long string without Rudman regs or similar is a sure recipe
for venting and prematurely drying out one or more batteries. Zivan has
changed their algorithm since, and it may now be better or worse, but at least
it is different ;^>
'Taming' a Zivan is as simple as plugging it into an AC timer and using the
timer to turn off the charger before it can perform a full equalisation. Not
sure that is what would be in the info from the ebay seller, but that's how I'd
do it.
Cheers,
Roger.
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 10:56:15 -0800
From: "Steven Sandoval" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV (or parts) for sale (San Francisco Bay Area)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
How much for the whole vehicle? I'll offer you $400.
On Nov 12, 2007 1:29 PM, (-Phil-) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> For those that want to see what the motor looks like:
> http://ingineerix.com/pic/gemotor/
>
> -Phil
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 1:10 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] EV (or parts) for sale (San Francisco Bay Area)
>
>
> > I'm starting to collect too much stuff again. I think it's time to offer
> > some of it to someone else who can give it a good home.
> >
> > It's a factory-built Cushman NEV with a 9" motor. Originally used by
> > Sacramento's Parking Enforcement Dept.
> >
> > Even if you didn't want the Cushman as a vehicle, it has a wealth of
> > components in great shape useful for a small 72v conversion; A quite large
> > for this vehicle (9" dia. x 16" long) GE series-wound motor, a 550A Curtis
> > 1221B, a set of Albright Reversing contactors, and an Albright Main
> > contactor.
> >
> > It originally was intended to have a pack of 12 Trojans, but I have a
> > smaller pack of 12v AGMs in there that are near the end of their life.
> >
> > All the mechanicals are in good shape, plenty of brush life left with
> > massive brushes. The motor is set up for external cooling but also has an
> > internal centrifugal fan. I think this motor at 120v would be a
> > screamer!!!
> >
> > Here is my Evalbum Entry:
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1424
> >
> > I will not sell individual components, but if you will buy the whole
> > vehicle, I will strip out stuff for you and dispose of the rest.
> >
> > Best Offer, but I expect to get at least the value of the Curtis and
> > motor.
> >
> > -Phil
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:42:22 -0600
From: "R. Matt Milliron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] new EV owner with a couple questions....re. high
pressure tires and battery heaters
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 01:27:59 -0800 (PST), you wrote:
>Just recently purchased my friends Geo metro that i am charging with solar
>panels on my home...its all working great but ..
>
>I am looking to do all i can to get the 70 mile range he tells me is possible.
>I have heard that high pressure tires would be helpful but haven't found any
>info yet.
>
>also i am told that a battery heater might be helpful. i have 14 Trojan
>T-125's in the back and 6 in front and i would like to find the best most
>economical way to heat the batteries. does anyone have any suggestions? your
>help is much appreciated thanks very much...Steve
>
I have read on the EVDL that someone used electric waterbed heaters
to good effect. Fairly inexpensive with a temp probe.
R. M. Milliron
1981 Jet Electrica (Ford Escort)
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
This machine had been garaged for 17 years. I have
upgraded and made it operable. Tabitha, my daughter,
named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black, electric
and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:09:52 -0800
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Absolute max input voltage of the Z1K-HV?
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Steven Ciciora wrote:
> For what it's worth, when I was in Oregon at PIR, Otmar told
> me that the absolute max he currently recommends for the EHV
> version is 374 volts
Otmar really ought to update his manual/specs then, as what he continues to
advertise is 348V nominal, and 400V max "fully loaded".
374V is just barely enough to accomodate a 348V pack that has relaxed to about
2.15V/cell off charge. (12.9V/12V module).
> Otmar said that the Zilla will limit duty cycle
> above 374V, and above this voltage is pushing the limits of
> the DC-DC converter on the gate driver board. The TI part
> (the DC-DC converter) has a minimum pulse width that it can't
> make any shorter, and above 374V, it can't regulate the
> output and it starts drifting up. Yet another reason why we
> stay at 374V on an EHV Zilla.
This makes Otmar's recommendation of 400V max fully loaded seem really odd...
> --- Matt Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > My experience is that, as advertised, 300V nominal is the
> > maximum you can use with the -HV model. I've been running
> > the Z2K-HV at 300V in Joule Injected for a couple years now.
> > The maximum voltage is typically on the order of 325V or so
> > when starting out, and at this voltage, I've never had any
> > problem.
> >
> > However, there have been times when the voltage has been
> > higher on startup after a good equalization charge. At these
> > times, I've noticed that the Hairball will not engage the
> > main contactor initially.
This really makes it seem like Otmar's published specs may be optimistic. It
doesn't seem quite right to advertise the HV model as capable of 72-300V
nominal battery voltage if it cannot actually tolerate the voltage of a 300V
nominal pack just off charge...
I'm a bit surprised and disappointed that the Zilla's voltage specs would be
'overstated' in this way. The 'Zilla has such an outstanding reputation that I
would have expected it to actually be happy with voltages right up to the
stated max or a bit beyond, rather than being at the hairy edge of not
operating at all even when operated within the upper limit of its spec. After
all, the Zilla has no competition, so there is no reason to spec it
optimistically: if the real safe upper limit of the HV is 288V nominal (so that
it is guaranteed to work no matter how fresh off charge the pack is), just say
so. Likewise, if the -EHV is really only going to work with a fully charged
336V pack, just say so, it isn't like the customers will go elsewhere! ;^>
Steve, please share with the list what you find out from Otmar (better still,
suggest to Otmar that he update the 'Zilla manual with the clarification so
that the next time it comes up the answer is readily available 'from the
horse's own mouth', as it were.) ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:59:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery tab welder and Ebikes
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I just found this cool web site that shows you how
to build your own battery tab welder.
Thought a few people may be interested.
http://www.ledhacks.com/power/battery_tab_welder.htm
Here's another good web forum for Ebikes,
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/index.php
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
EV@lists.sjsu.edu
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
End of EV Digest, Vol 4, Issue 37
*********************************
