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Today's Topics:
1. Re: EVS-23 Photos, comments (Bob Rice)
2. Re: Weird Horn Blowing Problem (John A. Evans - N0HJ)
3. Re: Weird Horn Blowing Problem (Bob Rice)
4. Head Count, Club Meeting. (Bob Rice)
5. Re: design input? (ProEV)
6. Re: Aerovironment VFD Drives (Peter Gabrielsson)
7. Re: Inflate your tires (Andre' Blanchard)
8. Re: PFC-20 Regulation Problem (ProEV)
9. Re: Bench testing Curtis controller, is it bad? (TrotFox Greyfoot)
10. Re: Cabin Heat (Jay Caplan)
11. Re: GM Hiring for VOLT related stuff (james s)
12. Re: PFC-20 Regulation Problem (MIKE WILLMON)
13. Re: Bench Testing Curtis 1221b controller, more info.
(Bill & Nancy)
14. E-meter guts and fixing them ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
15. Re: economy ac controller (Arak Leatham)
16. PFC-50 Hookup to 120V (MIKE WILLMON)
17. 5w 12v -25 pound motor solar power( Tommey Reed)
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
18. Re: E-meter guts and fixing them (Rod Hower)
19. Re: Bench Testing Curtis 1221b controller, more info. ((-Phil-))
20. Re: E-meter guts and fixing them ((-Phil-))
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:00:27 -0500
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVS-23 Photos, comments
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Frederiksen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVS-23 Photos
> good report. you should have grilled A123 about why they punish small
> businesses by overpricing and thus hurt both the EV revolution and their
> own income
>
> Peter Gabrielsson wrote:
>> I went to the EVS23 show in Anaheim this weekend.
Hi Pete;
Thanks for "taking" me to the Show. Nice pix, and the cut the bullshit
commentery! Those A123's are growing up! I mean size wise. I woulda liked to
have had, maybe 5 min to ask the a123 folks nicely, as to a timetable for
production. Or, will I live LONG enough, 66 and counting, to actually see
production in affordable quantities. The Panic Sonic Led acids look
promising IF they are affordable??I guess Firefly wasn't there? I think
those would be led acid's last gasp as a traction battery? So to speak?
I hope, and I woulda commented to a a123's guy, that I hope they can
fend the Oil Co's billion dollar offer to buy them out. We all know that a
week's income of ANY big oil co could buy most anything; battery co's,
women, tin horn dictaters, countries, Blackwater Protection, or The Best
Govt. Oil Money can Buy's protection, worse yet!! Anything they like. So I
feel that the a123 is a wonderful battery, IF they stay the course?? Tell
the guy we love them, wish them the best of EVerything. THANK them for
showing up. I would guess they are up to their a** ,I mean OVER their heads
in orders, now??I mean in chordless power tools??
On this line of reasoning, this is why ADV isn't jumping when a lonely
car converter bugs them for info. They need US like I need a reversed cell
in my Jetta!They have all the biz they need from the material handling
industry. To sum it up THAT'S why we have Netgain and the Warfield motor
line. Ask THEM about the motors, they will send ya graphs and whatnot. EV's
ARE their biz, from the guyz in Speonk NY to Surprise, AZ, building EV's,
one off's, in their garages.
Well, A123 got a break, both Dan an' I wern't there<g>!
Seeya
Bob Way away in CT
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:41:49 -0700
From: "John A. Evans - N0HJ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Weird Horn Blowing Problem
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Deanne,
As I understand it, it is a rabbit thing - something to do with the
switch in the steering column/wheel. I haven't gotten into mine to fix
but mine just doesn't honk at all.
PS - I plan to work on my 83 Rabbit GTI over the next year to get it all
clean and shiny in prep for a possible conversion next year. Right now
the battery issue has me in a quandry.
john
Deanne Mott wrote:
> Yesterday when I turned on my car (key switch) to leave work, my horn
> blew for about 5 seconds (seemed like 5 years.) This has happened to
> me 5-6 times before - and while I like to draw attention to my cute
> little EV this is not how I want to do it :-)
>
> I don't know if this is an EV thing, or a Rabbit thing. Any ideas?
>
> thanks - De
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:26:03 -0500
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Weird Horn Blowing Problem
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eduardo Kaftanski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Weird Horn Blowing Problem
> On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 10:36:31AM -0500, Deanne Mott wrote:
>> Yesterday when I turned on my car (key switch) to leave work, my horn
>> blew for about 5 seconds (seemed like 5 years.) This has happened to
>> me 5-6 times before - and while I like to draw attention to my cute
>> little EV this is not how I want to do it :-)
>>
>> I don't know if this is an EV thing, or a Rabbit thing. Any ideas?
>>
>
> Rabbit thing... its your keys shorting between the steering wheel
> and the keyswitch :)
>
> Hi EVerybody;
That's a new one on me. I have had MANY electrical issues with Rabbits,
over the years; try the taillights, instrument lites, marker lights coming
on when ya step on the brake?as for your thing, I think Rabbits use the same
system the old beetles did; a"hot" wire coming up through the steering
shast, the horn being in that circuit, so when ya hit the horn it"grounds"
the circuit by shorting it to the carbody. Horn works, and works IF that
wire has shorted out somewhere in the column? or going into it.Instant and
unprovoked HORN! Embarrising in traffic, used to show BOTH hands in the air
when I got that "Look!"
NOW if I could get BOTH my Jetta headlights to work, ALL the time?? Rite
side on on bright, out on dim, Left side Out on bright, ON on dim?MY horn
hasn't worked sINCE I converted it, so I was a bit overenthusiastic with the
witrecutters pruning away the ratsnest of wires still in place when I pulled
the gas engine!
Sorting out ALL the [EMAIL PROTECTED] wires in a newer conversion is a BIG
challange!
Good Luck!
Bob
> --
> Eduardo K. | Some say it's forgive and forget.
> http://www.carfun.cl | I say forget about forgiving just accept.
> http://ev.nn.cl | And get the hell out of town.
> | Minnie Driver, Grosse Point
> Blank
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.28/1023 - Release Date:
> 9/22/2007 1:27 PM
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:30:30 -0500
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Head Count, Club Meeting.
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi EVerybody;
As I posted the other day; The New England EAA dinner at O'Connor's
Restaurant in Worcester, MA. Anybody coming? Could I get a show of hands so
I can give O'Connor's a head count?Including Wives, Kids, Significent
Others. They were asking me, last nite, I ventured a guess at about 25?
Prove me right or wrong?
Seeya There?
Bob
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:23:22 -0500
From: "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] design input?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi Mark,
A lot of the things that make a Subaru a good EV racecar also make it a good
candidate for a street conversion. It is fairly light and has a small
frontal area. It is a popular car for racing and rallying, so there are
upgraded parts available. Heavier springs, bigger brakes and light weight
body parts are useful for an EV. The most important factor:
<I love Soobs >
Convert a car that you love because you will be putting some time into the
job and a good conversion will last a long time.
<I have a few questions about your decision making process that I'm hoping
can help me with mine.>
We knew that our biggest challenge for closed circuit road racing would be
range at speed. Road racing is the exact opposite of how to drive your car
efficiently. We accelerate as hard as we can and then brake as hard as we
can. Repeat until done.
We choose a AWD vehicle because we planned to maximize the energy we could
recapture with regenerative braking. More detail here:
http://www.proev.com/IAWDwhy.htm
We are now 'regenning' at 300 amps. This is enough so that we do not use the
friction brakes on the road except in an emergency stop. In Miami city
driving, we gain 10-15% range. Highway driving is closer 5%-10%.
On the track, we must combine regen with friction braking to slow as quickly
as possible. Regen gives us 15%-20% better range. That means without regen
our battery pack would have to be 1/5 heavier.
< I think you are running direct AC drives (both
motors mounted amidship of it's respective diff??), do you have any
reduction?>
The motors are bolted directly to two Subaru stock 3.9 rear differentials.
On the stock 16' Sube WRX rims, we are turning 3,290 rpm at 60 mph. On race
tires, we see 120 mph at about 7,000 rpm. The Siemens motors spin up to
12,000 rpm but do not have a lot of torque up high.
The 3.9 ratio is in the right ball park for the tracks we are racing on. For
the street or the perfect autocross car, we would do better with a ration
around 5.5. This would give an under 4 second 0-60 time and a top speed of
90 MPH.
The Subarus use the same diff as the Datsuns and Nissans, so there are a
wider variety of ratios out there.
<My original idea was to ditch the tranny altogether and just run
direct drive to the rear diff only, and do electric reverse, have regen...
all that.>
I don't think it will be sporty enough with the stock Siemens offerings but
the more powerful EVISOL controller should be available soon
(http://www.metricmind.com/index1.htm) or AC Propulsions excellent but
pricey drive (http://www.acpropulsion.com/technology/gen2.htm) would be
nice.
< But now I'm thinking I need some kind of reduction so I might as
well keep the AWD >
We looked at using the Subaru automatic transmission. It uses 5 volt digital
signals to initiate shifts and it is fairly easy to hack. We needed more
power for racing than any of the available AC motors could give us, so we
dropped the idea. It would have allow AWD regen and more flexibility in gear
ratios. Concerns would be adding a transmission fluid pump and durability
questions.
<but aren't AC motors kind of weaker in the
torque department compared with DC?>
The torque curves on the available traction DC and AC motors are very
different. DC motors have amazing torque at low RPM but drop off very
quickly. AC motors tend not to have the same initial torque but the torque
curve is flatter and stays to a higher rpm.
<and do a big torquey DC motor (or maybe 2 ala White Zombie...) >
DC motors need either a transmission to keep the rpms in the sweet spot or
two motors to allow a long gearing and still have good acceleration. I would
tend towards the 2 motor direct drive because DC torque can trash
transmissions.
I have spoken to one Subaru owner who is thinking about DC direct drive
using stock rear diffs front and rear. This should make a very sporty
vehicle. Custom front half shafts and fabricating a front crossmember will
be required.
< A range of 30-50 miles of
semi-conservative driving would be good and I don't care about a top speed
of more than 85-90 mph or so, but I want something that is very quick from a
stoplight or on an onramp. Like WRX or STI level performance.>
I think this is very possible. There are lots of fun ways to get to this
goal. I do not know which will work best.
Please let us know what you decide to try.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:37:02 -0800
From: "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aerovironment VFD Drives
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Just to clarify, you'll have to solder in a pot on PORTE.7.
-Peter
On Dec 4, 2007 10:43 AM, Peter Gabrielsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, I'm looking at the code now. Obviously I can't share it with you
> guys since it's AV ip. However I can tell you that there is a test
> mode where you can directly control the frequency through a pot on
> PORTE.7 which is currently pulled high through a resistor.
>
> To go into test mode you need to set the dip switch correctly. In the
> code it's labeled as dipswitch2 bit6, set this high for test mode.
>
> We made several different versions of these drives so I can't
> guarantee that the software I'm looking at is the same as the what is
> running in your units.
>
> I should also mention that the dynamic response of these drives is
> likely to be way to slow for EV drive use. But feel free to try it.
>
>
>
> -Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 3, 2007 11:08 PM, Morgan LaMoore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Dec 4, 2007 12:58 AM, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > That part number is "One Time programming with the Enhanced security
> > > feature" :-(
> >
> > It makes sense - they have some very novel IP that is valuable, and
> > they don't want it stolen and used by other VFD manufacturers.
> >
> > That said, it would be really cool to see how they did it.
> >
> > -Morgan LaMoore
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
> --
> www.electric-lemon.com
>
--
www.electric-lemon.com
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:55:09 -0600
From: "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Inflate your tires
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Remember the full service gas station?
I wonder if the government could put one person at each and every gas
station and pay %100 of their wages with an increased gas tax. That person
would do nothing but put air in every tire that went thru the station. And
if the money saved in gas milage would make up for the tax.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:57:05 -0500
From: "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] PFC-20 Regulation Problem
To: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Electric Vehicle Discussion
List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi Joe,
> =======================================================
>
> I was in the Manzanita Power Shop late last week and Rich had a lot of
> chargers sitting on the repair table. It seems that users are not checking
> their gensets for peak voltage before plugging a PFC charger into the
> genset.
I bet I can guess where two of those chargers came from <G>.
In our defense, the Guardian Ultra Source 15 kW generator played nicely with
our PFC50 all race weekend last December. We did not suspect it was the
problem this time until we killed Matt's charger as well.
Both weekends we were well behaved. The breakers were off when we started
the generator. We warmed up the generator before loading it. We connect the
PFC50 to the pack. We plugged it into the AC power. We turned on the AC
breaker. We turned on the PFC50 with the current knob all the way down. We
slowly turned the current knob up.
I have belatedly downloaded your generator application notes
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/Appnote1R3.doc.
Before I build the peak voltage test rig, I am wondering whether I might be
able to get the information I need using my fancy Fluke 189 meter. The
manual claims true RMS:
The meter presents ac voltage values as rms (root mean
square) readings. The rms value is the equivalent dc
voltage that would produce the same amount of heat in a
resistance as the measured voltage
The peak voltage test rig uses a rectifier bridge to change AC to DC and
then we read across the capacitor.
The Fluke FAST MN MX captures peaks to 250 ?sec.
Will the Fluke work?
Thanks
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:59:02 -0500
From: "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bench testing Curtis controller, is it bad?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Another thing that would be helpful to know is what kind of PS are you
using. I assume it's a regulated supply but you didn't state that.
Just trying to help,
Trot, the electrically-minded, fox...
On Dec 5, 2007 1:52 AM, Morgan LaMoore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wait...
>
> You use the multimeter to measure the power supply output, and it's
> 100V, and you then connect it to B+ and B- and see 153V?
>
> If so, I'd say your power supply is broken. It should be acting like a
> 100V voltage source with a small source.
>
> If connecting it to a controller makes it increase its voltage output,
> there is something very funky going on.
>
> See if your power supply set to 110VDC can light a light bulb.
>
> -Morgan
>
>
> On Dec 5, 2007 12:38 AM, Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I have a Curtis controller I am trying to bench test. I have it hooked
> > to a dc power supply at 100 volts (controller rated to 120volts)
> > Following instructions in manual , I checked voltage on power supply,
> > and watched voltage at B+ and B- when power was turned on. Instead of
> > getting 100 volts it rise fairly quickly to 153 volts across these
> > terminals. When I hook up to M- and operate the 5k ohm pot. It shows
> > between 0 and 153 volts output. I also have a light bulb hooked up to
> > M- and B+, but it don't light up.
> > Is this controller bad?
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
--
| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
| >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:04:39 -0600
From: "Jay Caplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cabin Heat
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks for the comments from people on the list, just installed 2 systems on
the 96V LeCar, will see how they do this winter.
The first is a 120VAC 2 level space heater, plugged into the block under the
hood that feeds the chargers with line current. Sits on the front passenger
floor. I will turn this on while the car is plugged in and in the garage, 2
hours before driving. This heater offers choice of 1000 or 1500 watts with
fan, fused, variable thermostatically controlled, with upset safety switch.
These are common from any discount store. It heats the car up to whatever
temp you set, maybe 80 F. . The 10 batteries inside the cabin are also
heated up to this temp and store a lot of heat energy due to their weight
620 lb. Have to go to a 12 ga extension cord to accomodate both the chargers
and the 1500 watts of heater.
So, when you unplug you take off with a warm car. If someone were to plug in
while at work, they could have a timer set up to turn on this heater an hour
before leaving work and have a warm car to start the drive home. Same for
returning from an airport flight, or leave it plugged in while in a store if
power is available.
The second is a metal drum heater 9"x 60" 3300W at 240VAC meant to wrap
around a drum with clamps - just happened to have this in the shop and not
being used. This draws 528 watts at 96VDC from the batteries. 16 ga cable,
fused at 10A, SPST on/off switch. We straightened it out and mounted it in
the floor on edge just in front of the back seat. It does not get warm
enough to cause anything to burn, but too hot to hold your hand on it. This
is meant to be turned on as soon as the car begins to feel cool inside and
will draw 5.5 A, act as a large radiator. It may not have enough wattage,
but it is something to try. We may need to go with a larger and smaller
element with forced air, but wanted to see how this does first since it was
on hand. Since the trips I make are just a couple of hours, and the climate
mild in TN, this may be enough. Will report at the end of the winter.
There already was a defrost system for front and back glass that works off
the 12VDC auxiliary battery from the original Electricar modification.
JLC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Caplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 8:06 AM
Subject: Cabin Heat
> It's that time of year and hoping for more cabin heat than the 200W
ceramic
> running on the 12V accessory battery that I have now.
>
> Could the 96VDC pack run a 1500W panel heater designed for 120VAC
> http://tinyurl.com/2668lq ?
>
> Use a 12VDC radiator fan supplied from the auxiliary battery to move air
> around it?
>
> I am thinking with only 96VDC instead of 120VAC, the heater would produce
> 1200W, use 12.5A?
>
> Will this work?
> JLC
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:17:00 -0500
From: "james s" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM Hiring for VOLT related stuff
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
This sounds positive, skepticism aside, could you get contact
information for the hiring manager from GMs staff for those of us
interested and not at EVS? This may be a good opportunity for those
wishing to be in the belly of the beast and effect some change from
the inside.
James - Canada
On Dec 5, 2007 3:00 AM, Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just got back from the EVS-23.
>
> I dropped by the GM booth chatted a bit. It turns out that they are
> actively looking for electric vehicle types for quite a variety of
> positions. I looked at a long list of slots they were trying to fill
> and I recall seeing technicians, battery testing engineers, electric
> drive system engineers, ICE engine engineers and about twenty other
> categories, some in project management, etc.
>
> Months ago I was skeptical about how committed GM was to the VOLT,
> now I am convinced that they are "betting the farm" on the VOLT. They
> are genuinely scrambling to make this car happen and get to market as
> quickly as they can. It is definitely not a token effort as some have
> suggested, but an all out push to make it happen.
>
> Bill Dube'
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:23:20 -0900
From: MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] PFC-20 Regulation Problem
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Well here comes another one for the pile. Not nearly so abused though as much
as you describe. My PFC-20 has been faithfully taking a plug in and turn on
for 17 months with no problem. Had to let Electrabishi sit for a month though
and when I went out to turn on some trickle current to start warming the
batteries and the thing wants to go full bore, even with the current knob all
the way down. So its out now and on its was south.
Mike Willmon
----- Original Message -----
From: ProEV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 8:58 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] PFC-20 Regulation Problem
To: Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Electric Vehicle Discussion List
<ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Hi Joe,
>
> > =======================================================
> >
> > I was in the Manzanita Power Shop late last week and Rich had a
> lot of
> > chargers sitting on the repair table. It seems that users are not
> checking> their gensets for peak voltage before plugging a PFC
> charger into the
> > genset.
>
> I bet I can guess where two of those chargers came from <G>.
>
> In our defense, the Guardian Ultra Source 15 kW generator played
> nicely with
> our PFC50 all race weekend last December. We did not suspect it was
> the
> problem this time until we killed Matt's charger as well.
>
> Both weekends we were well behaved. The breakers were off when we
> started
> the generator. We warmed up the generator before loading it. We
> connect the
> PFC50 to the pack. We plugged it into the AC power. We turned on
> the AC
> breaker. We turned on the PFC50 with the current knob all the way
> down. We
> slowly turned the current knob up.
>
> I have belatedly downloaded your generator application notes
> http://www.manzanitamicro.com/Appnote1R3.doc.
>
> Before I build the peak voltage test rig, I am wondering whether I
> might be
> able to get the information I need using my fancy Fluke 189 meter.
> The
> manual claims true RMS:
>
> The meter presents ac voltage values as rms (root mean
> square) readings. The rms value is the equivalent dc
>
> voltage that would produce the same amount of heat in a
>
> resistance as the measured voltage
>
> The peak voltage test rig uses a rectifier bridge to change AC to
> DC and
> then we read across the capacitor.
>
> The Fluke FAST MN MX captures peaks to 250 ?sec.
>
> Will the Fluke work?
>
> Thanks
>
> Cliff
> www.ProEV.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:30:20 -0800
From: Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bench Testing Curtis 1221b controller, more info.
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
It's a 1221b controller rated at 120 volts. The power supply is a variac
with a bridge rectifier. I hooked up a small light accross the B+and B-
terminals as Phil suggested, with the voltage set at 75 volts. The
reading went up to 115volts when powered up but the light on the motor
side still didn't work. I switched lights and put the 100 watt light on
the battery side and used the smaller light for the load. When I
operated the pot, the bulb lit up and got brighter as the resistance
increased.
Bill
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:53:45 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] E-meter guts and fixing them
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
format="flowed"
This car I bought has an e-meter in it, but the current always reads
-509 no matter what you do with it. I have determined that the current
amplifier/filter is blown up. I'm a final year EE student and having
no money to buy a new one or even the $90 that Xantrax wants to fix
it, I opened it up. I immediately found 3 popped resistors in the
current amplifier circuit. I have spend several hours tracing out the
circuits and I think I have a pretty good schematic worked out. I
replaced the resistors and it still does not work correctly. I suspect
some silicon has blown as well. Likely a protection diode or maybe
even an op-amp chip. No problem. Most of the parts are marked well
enough, and I have traced out the circuit enough to figure out what
parts are in there, for the most part. I'm having trouble with a
couple of parts.
I thought I saw a previous thread about the e-meter guts, but I dont
know who has photos or information that I could use to help fix mine.
The one IC that I cant figure out is a Linear Technology 723. Easy
enough to read the numbers on it, but I cant find the part, even on
the LT website. The part is an 8-SOIC, but only 3 pins are actually
connected to anything one is a ground and one feeds into an input on
the OP-07 opamp. I found a 1723 from LT and its a precision dual
op-amp, but it doesnt make any sense in the circuit.
Also giving me trouble are the two large resistor looking parts marked
with either a "3" or "E". They dont seem to be resistors, but Im not
sure. One is in the input path for the pack voltage, the other
connects to the "1A" transistor in the current amplifier.
The last part giving me trouble is a SOT-23 marked "1A". This could be
a N-FET or 2N3904. There are other N-FETS on the board marked "702",
so I suspect it is the 2N3904.
Any help here would be greatly appreciated. I'd be willing to trade
information for the general benefit of all EVers. I just want to get
it working again. I'll also want to add the parts needed for the extra
features, but I think I picked up how to do that in a previous thread.
-Jon
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:43:34 -0700
From: Arak Leatham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] economy ac controller
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Well, looking at all the details written, it seems that for a prototype or DIY
project a DC motor used as the controller for an inductive AC could work,
somewhat better than marginally.
It also adds up that the two motors would not /should not share a direct drive
linkage. The small DC could first drive a larger commutator that maps to the AC
motor directly. Phaze angles and slippage is then fairly automatic. Could also
map a more complex commutator if improvements are needed.
The acceleration profile of the dc should be similar to the AC under load.
(load modification can be linked back though an automotive fan-clutch) Then
next you can add noise suppression or waveform treatment, if you wish.
At some point later (and when you have saved up a couple thousand) you rip out
the DC motorized-controller and get a technically competent AC controller.
For me it could be a cheep way to get an AC powered vehicle up and running for
chasis/handling/Power testing.
Then later I already have the right size motor installed (if not the best
motor), so I only need the controller etc to complete final efficency and range
testing.
The hard part in this is providing the right controlling commutator. Something
left over from and even bigger dc motor with 3 circuit? This all makes sense to
be if you have the parts laying about unused.
Arak Leatham - Web and Desktop Systems Developer
Estimating, Point of Sale, Tracking, Reporting Applications> Date: Wed, 5 Dec
2007 09:47:49 -0600> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu> Subject:
Re: [EVDL] economy ac controller> > Morgan LaMoore wrote:> > The problem is
that for an AC induction motor, you don't want AC at> > the mechanical rotation
frequency, you want a slightly different> > frequency. Also, for EV use, you
probably want Flux Vector Control to> > give you proper torque control, and it
would take a genius to figure> > that out mechanically.> > If you're going to
experiment with AC motor controllers, it pays to do > some experiments to get a
"feel" for what the theory all means in practice.> > When I started, I used an
old audio amplifier as my "inverter". I used > it to drive small 24v AC
induction motors (aircraft surplus, or antenna > rotator motors). Inexpensive
multimeters are fine for measuring voltage > and current. I could easily
generate various frequencies, voltages, and > waveforms,!
and see how the motor responded. Nowdays, a PC with a sound > card could
provide quite a versatile platform for this.> > Later, I moved up to a
4-channel audio amp with external power > transistors on a big heatsink
(because I kept blowing them up :-) to > drive bigger 2-phase and 3-phase
motors, car alternators, etc.> > I learned that AC induction motors are pretty
forgiving. Wrong > frequency, wrong waveform, and wrong voltage have a fairly
mild effect > on efficiency. The motor tends to adapt by itself, much as a DC
series > motor will adapt to the voltage and load applied to it. Things only
get > bad if you make an abrupt change, or load it so heavily that it "pulls >
out" and stalls, or apply too much voltage for the frequency.> > The complex
sophisticated algorithms are only necessary if you want to > wrest the maximum
possible efficiency out of the motor. But these > efficiency curves are pretty
broad and flat. A square wave, for example, > only lowers efficiency ab!
out 10% compared to a perfect sinewave. A 2:1 > error in volta!
ge (twic
e the voltage needed for a particular load) only > causes about a 5% loss (it
mainly shifts the power factor).> > I think it's fairly simple to make an
inexpensive AC drive that matches > the performance of a DC drive. However,
that is not the direction that > most designers have taken -- they seek to
maximize performance and > efficiency. That extra 10% or so in performance
costs them dearly in > time and money! That may be justified if you are going
to mass produce > millions of units; but not if you only want a few.> -- > Ring
the bells that still can ring> Forget the perfect offering> There is a crack in
everything> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen> --> Lee A. Hart, 814
8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net> >
_______________________________________________> For subscription options, see>
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
_________________________________________________________________
Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista? + Windows Live?.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:52:57 -0900
From: MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] PFC-50 Hookup to 120V
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
While my PFC-20 is out for some R&R I need to use the PFC-50 from my Pinto
project to charge my truck. I have no 240VAC outlet in my garage, yet. But
12-14 amps at 120V has been sufficient for me using the PFC-20. So my question
is about using the 14-50 plug that is on the PFC-50. I have a 14-50 receptacle
and want to pigtail it to a 5-15 plug. Do I wire the the Line and Neutral on
the 5-15P to L1 and Neutral on the 14-50R?....or to L1 and L2 on the 14-50R?
Mike
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:27:52 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] 5w 12v -25 pound motor solar power( Tommey Reed)
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This motor has higher efficient the motor today...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bloOBX3Qw8s
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AIM(R) Mail ! -
http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aimcmp00050000000001
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:41:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] E-meter guts and fixing them
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
The '702' marking is for a 2N7002, 60V, 115mA and Rds
on of 7.5 ohms.
'1A' is (usually its 1AM) is a MMBT3904, 60V, 200mA
transistor.
723 is probably a 1723 or linear technology dual, low
noise opamp.
I would like a copy of what you sketched out offlist
if you scanned it.
Thanks,
Rod
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> This car I bought has an e-meter in it, but the
> current always reads
> -509 no matter what you do with it. I have
> determined that the current
> amplifier/filter is blown up. I'm a final year EE
> student and having
> no money to buy a new one or even the $90 that
> Xantrax wants to fix
> it, I opened it up. I immediately found 3 popped
> resistors in the
> current amplifier circuit. I have spend several
> hours tracing out the
> circuits and I think I have a pretty good schematic
> worked out. I
> replaced the resistors and it still does not work
> correctly. I suspect
> some silicon has blown as well. Likely a protection
> diode or maybe
> even an op-amp chip. No problem. Most of the parts
> are marked well
> enough, and I have traced out the circuit enough to
> figure out what
> parts are in there, for the most part. I'm having
> trouble with a
> couple of parts.
>
> I thought I saw a previous thread about the e-meter
> guts, but I dont
> know who has photos or information that I could use
> to help fix mine.
> The one IC that I cant figure out is a Linear
> Technology 723. Easy
> enough to read the numbers on it, but I cant find
> the part, even on
> the LT website. The part is an 8-SOIC, but only 3
> pins are actually
> connected to anything one is a ground and one feeds
> into an input on
> the OP-07 opamp. I found a 1723 from LT and its a
> precision dual
> op-amp, but it doesnt make any sense in the circuit.
>
> Also giving me trouble are the two large resistor
> looking parts marked
> with either a "3" or "E". They dont seem to be
> resistors, but Im not
> sure. One is in the input path for the pack voltage,
> the other
> connects to the "1A" transistor in the current
> amplifier.
>
> The last part giving me trouble is a SOT-23 marked
> "1A". This could be
> a N-FET or 2N3904. There are other N-FETS on the
> board marked "702",
> so I suspect it is the 2N3904.
>
> Any help here would be greatly appreciated. I'd be
> willing to trade
> information for the general benefit of all EVers. I
> just want to get
> it working again. I'll also want to add the parts
> needed for the extra
> features, but I think I picked up how to do that in
> a previous thread.
>
> -Jon
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:53:49 -0800
From: "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bench Testing Curtis 1221b controller, more info.
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Sounds like the controller works!
I assume 40 watts isn't enough to keep the high peaks from screwing with the
controller.
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill & Nancy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bench Testing Curtis 1221b controller, more info.
> It's a 1221b controller rated at 120 volts. The power supply is a variac
> with a bridge rectifier. I hooked up a small light accross the B+and B-
> terminals as Phil suggested, with the voltage set at 75 volts. The
> reading went up to 115volts when powered up but the light on the motor
> side still didn't work. I switched lights and put the 100 watt light on
> the battery side and used the smaller light for the load. When I
> operated the pot, the bulb lit up and got brighter as the resistance
> increased.
> Bill
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:58:49 -0800
From: "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] E-meter guts and fixing them
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Sounds like the current input took some HV.
The divider resistors and op-amp are likely toast.
The IC labeled "723" is indeed an Op-amp. It's used to provide an output
for the ADC from the differential input of the current shunt.
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:53 AM
Subject: [EVDL] E-meter guts and fixing them
> This car I bought has an e-meter in it, but the current always reads
> -509 no matter what you do with it. I have determined that the current
> amplifier/filter is blown up. I'm a final year EE student and having
> no money to buy a new one or even the $90 that Xantrax wants to fix
> it, I opened it up. I immediately found 3 popped resistors in the
> current amplifier circuit. I have spend several hours tracing out the
> circuits and I think I have a pretty good schematic worked out. I
> replaced the resistors and it still does not work correctly. I suspect
> some silicon has blown as well. Likely a protection diode or maybe
> even an op-amp chip. No problem. Most of the parts are marked well
> enough, and I have traced out the circuit enough to figure out what
> parts are in there, for the most part. I'm having trouble with a
> couple of parts.
>
> I thought I saw a previous thread about the e-meter guts, but I dont
> know who has photos or information that I could use to help fix mine.
> The one IC that I cant figure out is a Linear Technology 723. Easy
> enough to read the numbers on it, but I cant find the part, even on
> the LT website. The part is an 8-SOIC, but only 3 pins are actually
> connected to anything one is a ground and one feeds into an input on
> the OP-07 opamp. I found a 1723 from LT and its a precision dual
> op-amp, but it doesnt make any sense in the circuit.
>
> Also giving me trouble are the two large resistor looking parts marked
> with either a "3" or "E". They dont seem to be resistors, but Im not
> sure. One is in the input path for the pack voltage, the other
> connects to the "1A" transistor in the current amplifier.
>
> The last part giving me trouble is a SOT-23 marked "1A". This could be
> a N-FET or 2N3904. There are other N-FETS on the board marked "702",
> so I suspect it is the 2N3904.
>
> Any help here would be greatly appreciated. I'd be willing to trade
> information for the general benefit of all EVers. I just want to get
> it working again. I'll also want to add the parts needed for the extra
> features, but I think I picked up how to do that in a previous thread.
>
> -Jon
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
EV@lists.sjsu.edu
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
End of EV Digest, Vol 5, Issue 17
*********************************
