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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Aptera not vaporware after all (GWMobile)
2. Re: Ceramic Elements...Canadian EV type vs Cheaper Units
(Peter VanDerWal)
3. Re: Aptera not vaporware after all (Peter VanDerWal)
4. Re: Ariana-ev (GWMobile)
5. Re: Aptera not vaporware after all (Zeke Yewdall)
6. Re: need to contact reverend gadget to get motor + trans back
(Tony Hwang)
7. Bad news and good news...and hope for... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
8. Re: Ceramic Elements...Canadian EV type vs Cheaper Units
(Zeke Yewdall)
9. Re: EV technology for the rest of us (Metric Mind)
10. Re: Reversible air conditioning (Rick Beebe)
11. Re: DC/DC 288v to 12v (storm connors)
12. Re: DC/DC 288v to 12v (Zeke Yewdall)
13. Re: Water cool an ADC motor? AGGGGRAH!!! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
14. Re: Best 10kw Gensets. (spon from WWU EV1 Resurrection. )
(( Phil ))
15. Re: DC/DC 288v to 12v (Roland Wiench)
16. Re: Ceramic Elements...Canadian EV type vs Cheaper Units
(John Wayland)
17. Re: need to contact reverend gadget to get motor + trans back
(Ryan Stotts)
18. Re: Ceramic Elements...Canadian EV type vs Cheaper Units
(Roger Daisley)
19. Re: Ceramic Elements...Canadian EV type vs Cheaper Units
(Zeke Yewdall)
20. Re: Water cool an ADC motor? AGGGGRAH!!! (Bob Rice)
21. Re: Lee Harts's Christmas Carol (David Roden (Akron OH USA))
22. Re: Ceramic Elements...Canadian EV type vs Cheaper Units
(David Roden (Akron OH USA))
23. Re: Ceramic Elements...Canadian EV type vs Cheaper Units (Paul)
24. Re: Ceramic Elements...Canadian EV type vs Cheaper Units
(Roland Wiench)
25. Real world performance of home made hybrid? (Chuck Homic)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 10:29:15 -0500
From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aptera not vaporware after all
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
Loved that optica aircraft.
Was one of my favorites along with rutan's EZ 's
All the composite stuff looks great because of complete freedom to
aeroform.
Maybe they can put the front plate deep in the body with a curvilineat
plexi blended body piece around it.
Or could they mount it on a slant or have mirror reflect its image if
the plate was held inside?
Gotta do something about that plate law.
Is a front one required for a 3 wheeler or motorcycle?
On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 4:13 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> They've already got a wiki with that info:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aptera_hybrid_car
>
> They shot for a drag coefficient of 0.055 to 0.06, but ended up with
> 0.11 in the prototype. Also they only get 230 mpg, starting with a
> fully charged batt- and I figuring that means part of that mileage
> comes off the batt rather than a pure gasoline-to-miles figure.
> Awww.... "only" 230 mpg?? I figure after 50 mpg or so cost of fuel is
> just about nothing anyways, car payments and expensive low rolling
> resistance specialty tires cost far more per month.
>
> I bet the drag added by including a space for the legally required
> license plate is making the designer cry.
>
> Body shape reminds me of the Edgley Optica- a ducted fan aircraft which
> had to maintain laminar airflow around the cabin for the intake to the
> ducted fan in the rear (it's not a turbine, just an enclosed
> propeller). Was not a success in the end, though it's unclear if the
> principles of the design were flawed.
>
> Danny
>
> ---- Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> And... some shots of the chassis working in real world situations.
>> Like hard braking, cornering close to the adhesion limit, even
>> negotiating a parking lot with other vehicles would be good. (though
>> interaction with other the drivers wouldn't be an accurate
>> representation cuz all the other drivers would, in addition too
>> everyday responses, have the -wow- factor going on :^D )
>>
>> Did anyone see the drag coefficient mentioned? I didn't catch that
>> part.
>>
>> IMHO, one of the best vehicle designs I have seen in a long time.
>>
>> Bucky Fuller would like this :^D
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~
>>
>>
>> Roy LeMeur
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
>> http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 09:28:30 -0700 (MST)
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ceramic Elements...Canadian EV type vs Cheaper
Units
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> NONE of those things are acceptable to me. Thanks for the scoop, I knew
> there had to be a reason.
FWIW, I live in southern AZ where it doesn't usually get much below
freezing. I use a cheap walmart heater in a single cab pickup. Within 5
minutes it's to warm to keep running the heater. I'm still trying to come
up with a good thermostat to turn it on and off.
As for keeping the batteries warm, an inch of styrofoam insulation will do
the trick, as long as you drive the vehicle every day.
The heat the batteries produce while charging/discharging will be enough
to keep them warm until the temps dip way below freezing. (I haven't seen
it get cold enough yet to be a problem)
In fact when the temp gets above about ~45 degreees F, I have to take the
covers off my batteries to keep them from overheating.
Unless you only drive occasionally, or live in the great white north, I
don't think you need active heating.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 09:33:21 -0700 (MST)
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aptera not vaporware after all
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> Or could they mount it on a slant or have mirror reflect its image if
> the plate was held inside?
The mirror would flip the image, besides if they have room for the mirror
then they have room for the plate.
At any rate, it's a motorcycle (by federal definition) and therefor
doesn't need a front plate. At least I'm not aware of any state that
requires front plates on motorcycles.
FWIW many states do not require front plates on cars/trucks either. Here
in AZ they don't even issue you a front plate.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 10:32:35 -0500
From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ariana-ev
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED], SFEVA
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
That is a boss looking car!
On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 4:14 am, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> http://www.ariana-ev.com/ Very impressive. Made in Belgium. Lawrence
> Rhodes.....
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 08:46:35 -0700
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aptera not vaporware after all
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Dec 24, 2007 9:33 AM, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> FWIW many states do not require front plates on cars/trucks either. Here
> in AZ they don't even issue you a front plate.
In CO front plates are required, but I know a few people who don't run
front plates -- for alot less enlightened reason that trying to reduce
air resistance...
They do it because the ticket for not having the front plate is alot
less than the ticket the photo red light contraptions give you......
Alot of people who are just too lazy to put the plate on the car (some
cars don't come with a mounting bracket for it and you have to screw
it to the plastic bumper) just put the front plate on the dashboard so
you can see it out the windshield too -- that seems to work.
Z
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 07:46:40 -0800
From: "Tony Hwang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] need to contact reverend gadget to get motor +
trans back
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Thx, though I've tried that already (email/phone/myspace/etc...), it says
he's logged in on the 14th though. Basically I've web searched, and think
the only way to reach him seems to be via someone who has contact with him
in person. He doesn't check voicemail and emails it seems! Hopefully someone
that reads this list knows him or knows of a way to contact him (via a
email/phone/etc that's not one of the ones found on his websites).
- Tony
On Dec 21, 2007 3:11 PM, ampaynz1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Saw this message and thought I'd help or try a little. A quick google
> search
> came up with a myspace page that was answered in december 2007.
> Reverend Gadget
>
>
> Phone: 310-908-0604
> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> email him on his Myspace webpage
>
>
> http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=125278971
>
>
> Tony Hwang-2 wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Been trying to contact gadget for the past few months, and really need
> any
> > help I can get to contact him! I've emailed/called him at his two
> > websites,
> > plus visited his Culver City location once or twice every month, he's
> > never
> > there. Anyone know if he's maybe doing something else, or working
> > elsewhere,
> > or something?
> >
> > We brought our electric motor and transmission for him to make us a
> custom
> > mount and adapter earlier this year. I believe he hasn't been posting on
> > the
> > EV list too as I don't see any recent posts from him.
> >
> > Anyone have any suggestions on how we can get our motor and transmission
> > back? It's probably sitting in his Culver City shop, we just want it
> > back!!!
> > Our conversion project is a Scion xA, and we can't work on it, plus it's
> > sitting in our garage, making us have to park our cars outside. Also we
> > have
> > a lot of money tied up in it and can't just let it sit there, we want to
> > be
> > out driving it! :)
> >
> > Anyways, if ANYONE knows him and can contact him, tell him Tony has been
> > trying to contact him, and to give me a call/email/anything! My email is
> > at
> > tony at junk-jungle dot com. Thanks.
> >
> > - Tony
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/need-to-contact-reverend-gadget-to-get-motor-%2B-trans-back-tp14460951s25542p14464055.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:21:22 +0000 (GMT)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] Bad news and good news...and hope for...
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I just thought I would share my small step...
Bad news, my Camry died at a busy time for me.
Good news, I bought my first WORKING electric vehicle -
A 2004 Prius (2nd Gen).
OK, it's a Hybrid, but I'm learning to spend time
in EV mode, and hope to put in the EV mode button
as soon as I am comfortable that it's in good condition.
I'm thinking I'll try to buy a used Prius battery pack
to use for a Plug-In Prius, as soon as the How-To gets
more fleshed out, and I get myself a Round Tuit.
one picture at
http://wlb62a.us
(site name may change if I get Vanity plates...)
Something to drive until I get my Freedom.
Seth in NJ
PS I think Black is not a good color for a car, but
the Green one in NJ was a Classic, and my research says
2004 is the ideal year for hacking...
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 08:52:57 -0700
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ceramic Elements...Canadian EV type vs Cheaper
Units
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Dec 24, 2007 9:28 AM, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> FWIW, I live in southern AZ where it doesn't usually get much below
> freezing. I use a cheap walmart heater in a single cab pickup. Within 5
> minutes it's to warm to keep running the heater. I'm still trying to come
> up with a good thermostat to turn it on and off.
Doesn't the walmart heater have a thermostat? Most of the cheap
heaters I have (the bank required electric heat in my house before
they'd mortgage it -- woodstove no good...) have built in thermostats
-- the fanciest one, about $40 at Home Depot, you can digitally select
temps between 55 and 85 even.
Z
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 07:54:05 -0800
From: Metric Mind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV technology for the rest of us
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Michaela,
Why don't you get a factory Ford Ranger EV from EV bones then?
Complete OEM EV truck, nothing to tinker with?
Victor
Michaela Merz wrote:
> I am not frustrated. I have realized for some time now, that home brew
> style EVing might just not be my can of worms. I don't want to tinker
> around, I want to use my vehicle. From all the messages I've got on and
> off list I realize, that my suggestions are not mine alone. There is
> demand - though no supply.
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:04:15 -0500
From: Rick Beebe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Reversible air conditioning
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> Driving stock compressor (plumbed into already built A/C system in any
> car) with external motor is simplest way to go. At minimum you need only
> one DC motor running off the traction pack to do it. Not so slick
> solution is pulley from the tail shaft of now idling traction motor,
> this already been discussed on EVDL many times.
Doesn't necessarily have to idle. On my Mariner hybrid the AC is powered
by the ICE and shuts off when the engine is off. At a long light the air
coming out gradually gets warmer but as soon as I start moving again and
the ICE kicks in the air gets cold again. There's a max setting which
keeps the ICE running but I rarely find it necessary.
I agree, though, that a separate DC motor is the better way to go.
Especially if you live somewhere hot where you really would want the AC
on all the time.
--Rick
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:25:48 -0500
From: "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC/DC 288v to 12v
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I have the 120-55 on my 144v pack. On the advice of Lee, I hooked it
up on the motor side of my negative contactor so it only goes on when
the key is on. Lee said leaving it on 13.8 v float was bad for it. I
am trying to find the plug that makes the charger go to 14.5v. It
appears to be a RJ-11 phone jack, but I don't know which pins are
wired together.
Anyway, this keeps it away from charging voltages. I may have to put
in an override switch if the battery isn't being charged long enough.
Note to self: put a timer on it if you do this!
On Dec 24, 2007 9:52 AM, ( Phil ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It should handle up to 320 w/o a problem. You gotta watch it though, as
> your charging voltage could hit 350. I think that's still ok, but you
> should check with Iota to be sure.
>
--
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
Storm
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 09:35:55 -0700
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC/DC 288v to 12v
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
There is an addon you can get for the Iotas which turns them into a 3
stage charger, instead of a fixed voltage supply. That might work for
you you want.
Z
On Dec 24, 2007 9:25 AM, storm connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have the 120-55 on my 144v pack. On the advice of Lee, I hooked it
> up on the motor side of my negative contactor so it only goes on when
> the key is on. Lee said leaving it on 13.8 v float was bad for it. I
> am trying to find the plug that makes the charger go to 14.5v. It
> appears to be a RJ-11 phone jack, but I don't know which pins are
> wired together.
>
> Anyway, this keeps it away from charging voltages. I may have to put
> in an override switch if the battery isn't being charged long enough.
> Note to self: put a timer on it if you do this!
>
> On Dec 24, 2007 9:52 AM, ( Phil ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > It should handle up to 320 w/o a problem. You gotta watch it though, as
> > your charging voltage could hit 350. I think that's still ok, but you
> > should check with Iota to be sure.
> >
> --
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
> http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
> Storm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:46:30 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Water cool an ADC motor? AGGGGRAH!!!
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 12/24/2007 5:54:58 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Down from my Battery(soap) Box.
Seeya
Bob
----------------------
Bob, where are you going to show up for the EV races Jan 26, east or west
coast?
Jim L ..................the almost VP
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 08:48:32 -0800
From: "( Phil )" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Best 10kw Gensets. (spon from WWU EV1
Resurrection. )
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
The 30kw unit I had sounded a little like a small quiet shop vac during
startup. Not totally quiet, but not annoying, once it goes up in power the
frequency goes over hearing range and then it's just an "air" noise.
The units are designed for cogen, but can also have the recuperator running
which halves the heat and increases the electrical output.
There is one moving part, and it uses foil (air) bearings. Once started
there is no wear.
The 3-phase gen head is also the starter, and the on-board inverter can turn
the 3-phase into any reasonable voltage or frequency from 0 (dc) to 3 phase
ac at 500hz (if I remember right).
It will only do full power at around 400-500v, but can run much lower. at
reduced output.
I definitely have thought of putting one in my van!
-Phil
http://evalbum.com/1413
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Best 10kw Gensets. (spon from WWU EV1 Resurrection. )
> The Capstone Microturbine is the readily available microturbine right now.
>
> Its emissions are excellent, its noise level is supposed to be reasonable,
> something like a loud box fan rather than a jet engine. It's got a
> build-in generator head and control system. The Hybrid Vehicle version
> was used for a fleet of hybrid buses that were scrapped and some of the
> turbines went onto the surplus market.
>
> At first it appears to have crazy high efficiency, then you see they're
> talking cogen, heating hot water with the exhaust. Well, I could put an
> elaborate water jacket on any piston engine exhaust and get close to 100%
> efficiency too! Bottom line is it's pretty good efficiency to electrical
> output, once you consider that its figures already include generator head
> losses which might be around 10% or more if you just hooked a generator
> head up to an internal combustion engine to make a series hybrid.
>
> It appears it could make a decent series hybrid, well, it might be a few
> more mpg at best, or maybe a few mpg less than the original vehicle's mpg.
> It'd be quite a novelty to have a turbine vehicle but it's not gonna stun
> the world with its mpg.
>
> Danny
>
> ---- Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Depends alot on what fuel you use, what cycle you use, and what you
>> define as pollutants.... alot of the microturbines use natural gas
>> which tends to burn alot cleaner than gasoline -- but is a brayton
>> cycle with natural gas cleaner than an otto cycle or diesel cycle with
>> natural gas? Dunno.
>>
>>
>> On Dec 23, 2007 1:06 AM, GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > With a micorturbine though you are putting out horrible pollution. Kind
>> > of defeats purpose of ev's or hybrids if you will pollute that much.
>> >
>> > Remember as a general rule the faster and hotter the combustion chamber
>> > dwell time the more pollutants emited.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 09:50:06 -0700
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC/DC 288v to 12v
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Storm,
I am just looking at one of the RJ-11 plugs for the IOTA DC-DC converter and
the wire jumpers are as follows:
Holding the plug with the snap in holding clip on the top, there is four
contact terminals I will number 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 from left to right on the wire
entry facing you.
There is a green wire jumper from 1 to 3.
There is a black wire jumper from 2 to 4.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC/DC 288v to 12v
> I have the 120-55 on my 144v pack. On the advice of Lee, I hooked it
> up on the motor side of my negative contactor so it only goes on when
> the key is on. Lee said leaving it on 13.8 v float was bad for it. I
> am trying to find the plug that makes the charger go to 14.5v. It
> appears to be a RJ-11 phone jack, but I don't know which pins are
> wired together.
>
> Anyway, this keeps it away from charging voltages. I may have to put
> in an override switch if the battery isn't being charged long enough.
> Note to self: put a timer on it if you do this!
>
> On Dec 24, 2007 9:52 AM, ( Phil ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > It should handle up to 320 w/o a problem. You gotta watch it though, as
> > your charging voltage could hit 350. I think that's still ok, but you
> > should check with Iota to be sure.
> >
> --
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
> http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
> Storm
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 09:04:23 -0800
From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ceramic Elements...Canadian EV type vs Cheaper
Units
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Hello to All,
Zeke Yewdall wrote:
>On Dec 24, 2007 9:28 AM, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>FWIW, I live in southern AZ where it doesn't usually get much below
>>freezing. I use a cheap walmart heater in a single cab pickup. Within 5
>>minutes it's to warm to keep running the heater. I'm still trying to come
>>up with a good thermostat to turn it on and off.
>>
>>
>
>Doesn't the walmart heater have a thermostat? Most of the cheap
>heaters...have built in thermostats
>-- the fanciest one, about $40 at Home Depot, you can digitally select
>temps between 55 and 85 even.
>
>
Yes, they have thermostats, but these are merely inexpensive bi-metal
flipper type of switches designed to turn on-off the 'AC' current, not DC.
AC does us all a favor, in that it turns itself off 60 times a second,
what is called the cross-over zero point, so ant kind of arcing that
might try to start when the switch opens is extinguished as the either
positive or negative wave swings down to zero volts. AC switches cannot
usually be used in the same voltage class with DC. In other words, a 120
vac switch will probably arc and melt together if used to turn off even
a 48 vdc sourced load. Example...many of us have used 120 vac hair
dryers in our EVs at one time or another as a grab-it-off-the-K Mart
shelf $9.95 as a temporary heater solution. They run just fine off a 120
vdc electric car pack...until you try to turn one off using its AC-rated
on-off switch! It usually only works one or two times, then it suddenly
arcs, burns, and starts to melt-down the hair dryer!
You 'could' use the thermostat to control your EV's heater DC rated
contactor's coil.
See Ya...John Wayland
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:40:03 -0600
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] need to contact reverend gadget to get motor +
trans back
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
It says he logged in here 5 days ago: http://www.youtube.com/revgadget
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 09:20:03 -0800
From: "Roger Daisley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ceramic Elements...Canadian EV type vs Cheaper
Units
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<!&[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Regarding the heater switching issue, below:
I'm about to install a heating system on my EV VW Cabbie. Can someone
suggest a, hopefully inexpensive, DC relay that can switch the usual 1500
watt ceramic heaters?
Thanks,
Roger Daisley
Pullman, WA
http://www.96-volt.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~//~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, they have thermostats, but these are merely inexpensive bi-metal
flipper type of switches designed to turn on-off the 'AC' current, not DC.
AC does us all a favor, in that it turns itself off 60 times a second, what
is called the cross-over zero point, so ant kind of arcing that might try to
start when the switch opens is extinguished as the either positive or
negative wave swings down to zero volts. AC switches cannot usually be used
in the same voltage class with DC. In other words, a 120 vac switch will
probably arc and melt together if used to turn off even a 48 vdc sourced
load. Example...many of us have used 120 vac hair dryers in our EVs at one
time or another as a grab-it-off-the-K Mart shelf $9.95 as a temporary
heater solution. They run just fine off a 120 vdc electric car pack...until
you try to turn one off using its AC-rated on-off switch! It usually only
works one or two times, then it suddenly arcs, burns, and starts to
melt-down the hair dryer!
You 'could' use the thermostat to control your EV's heater DC rated
contactor's coil.
See Ya...John Wayland
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 10:52:50 -0700
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ceramic Elements...Canadian EV type vs Cheaper
Units
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Dec 24, 2007 10:04 AM, John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yes, they have thermostats, but these are merely inexpensive bi-metal
> flipper type of switches designed to turn on-off the 'AC' current, not DC.
Duh... somehow I forgot that when I wrote my earlier reply.
You could always use a separate thermostat to switch the coil for a DC
rated contactor, I suppose.
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 13:09:35 -0500
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Water cool an ADC motor? AGGGGRAH!!!
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Hi Jim;
Time machine's in the shop<g>! Was gunna go for the FLA thing, it'$
closer, Had heddy thoughts as to going to CA from Fla in the Weak between
the two EVents, but they, now, run at the same time. Sigh. Woulda had time
even to take Sunset Limited out to CA, but it hasn't run since the Ketrina
rearranged the Railroad map.
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Water cool an ADC motor? AGGGGRAH!!!
> In a message dated 12/24/2007 5:54:58 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
> Down from my Battery(soap) Box.
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>
> ----------------------
>
> Bob, where are you going to show up for the EV races Jan 26, east or west
> coast?
>
> Jim L ..................the almost VP
>
>
>
>
> **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
> (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
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> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.28/1023 - Release Date:
> 9/22/2007 1:27 PM
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>
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:41:50 -0500
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lee Harts's Christmas Carol
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
There's a formatted html version of Lee's classic tale "A Christmas Car" in
the EVDL library. See here :
http://evdl.org/pages/xmascar.html
You'll also find there "Edison Stout Who Would Not Check His Batteries Out,"
"The Man Who Never Recharged," and "The EV Monster Mash." Enjoy.
http://www.evdl.org/lib/
I don't want to be too effusive, but I have to say that Lee is a
multitalented person, and a real asset to the EVDL. He's been quietly
making EVs work and, more importantly, helping others make them work for as
long as I've been around the list - and that's almost 14 years. He's freely
given of his time and his electronic design talent. Others have wandered in
and out, but Lee is a stalwart.
What's more, Lee has never spoken (written) ill of anyone, never ridiculed
or denigrated anyone's ideas, needs, or choices. He's never put down or
dismissed a person for posting a question, no matter how naïve or foolish
the question may have seemed.
We've read of "telling the truth" recently - well, here is someone who tells
it like it is gently, persuasively, and powerfully, without knocking anyone
over in the process.
The old-fashioned term for such a person is "gentleman."
At this time of year I remind myself of how grateful I am for the good
things in this tired old world. Lee Hart is one of the best.
David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:41:50 -0500
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ceramic Elements...Canadian EV type vs Cheaper
Units
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On 24 Dec 2007 at 8:52, Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> Doesn't the walmart heater have a thermostat?
Probably won't do you any good. If it's electronic it most likely won't
work on DC. If it's mechanical, the contacts will weld the first time it
tries to open on DC. Ask me how I know this. ;-)
David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:05:46 -0800
From: Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ceramic Elements...Canadian EV type vs Cheaper
Units
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Oh John - you are begging for a little list action, aren't you? (I am
begging for more building EV talk, so I'm in :-)
On Dec 23, 2007, at 6:28 PM, John Wayland wrote:
> EVDL Administrator wrote:
>
>> On 22 Dec 2007 at 19:04, Jeff Shanab wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> What I wanted to ask was how do the ones on ev source differ from
>>> these
>>> sub $30 units?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I don't know about EV source, but the ceramic cores I got from Randy
>> Holmquist at Canadian EV several years ago were made in Germany.
>> The ones
>> at the department stores are made in China. Make of that what you
>> will.
>>
>>
>>
> The important difference, is the actual grid work that is the heat
> exchanger of the ceramic elements. The el cheapo department store
> types
> you can salvage from small heaters, have a tight grid work that is
> restrictive to airflow when inserted in the high CFM air stream of a
> car's heater blower, whereas the ones Canadian EV sells have a more
> open
> grid work that allows a car's heater blower to move the amount of
> air it
> was designed to move. The Canadian EV elements are a far better choice
> if having adequate air volume coming out the defroster and air
> vents is
> important to you.
I don't have the CanEV unit but I do have the EVparts unit. I also
have a pair of the Holmes heaters from Target mentioned by Tim Medeck
(one is still useful as a garage heater.) The EVparts heater is a
dead simple install in the old Nickira heater used in early Datsuns.
It has slightly more space between each row of ceramic elements with
longer fins connecting each row. It should flow better. The cheap
Holmes heater has all aluminum construction (apart from the ceramic
elements) with the aluminum "1/4 inch male fastons" welded to the
female connector that the power wires are crimped to. The EVparts
unit has brass or bronze tabs (real 1/4 inch male fastons) so I could
wire the unit up without having to splice wires in the heater box. It
also has a much more sturdy heater core frame with flat attaching
flanges on both sides.
> I cannot imagine why one would not want to have the same hurricane
> force
> air blowing out the vents in their vehicle it was intended to have. On
> the other hand, I suppose if you're the type where sub-gas car
> acceleration due to an inadequate squealing Curtis 1231 controller is
> OK, or where running off a 12V battery un-aided by a DC-DC (dim
> lights,
> slow wipers, lethargic turn signals, weak air stream out the vents) is
> OK, or where a constantly clacking contactor driven off the pot box
> microswitch (because of a poorly designed controller) is OK, or
> running
> clutchless is OK, then reduced air flow out the defroster, heater, and
> dash air vents due to a cheap ceramic element's restrictive heat
> exchanger probably wouldn't bother you either.
Oh, ouch - that hurts <g>. In one paragraph you managed to slap
around whining Curtis controllers, not using a DC to DC converter,
clutchless conversions, and cheap ceramic heaters! I've broken a
couple of those rules before :-P
Of course the heater performance has nothing to do with the "sub-gas
car acceleration" - otherwise the White Zombie would be awful slow
<g>. I bet my EV buggy wouldn't even move! Oh wait, it doesn't more
since I blew up the (silent) Curtis controller :-(
> In the Pacific Northwest region where I live, the wet winters make for
> lots of damp carpets from rain-soaked footwear, so a vehicle can
> quickly
> 'fog up' if the defroster can't blow lots of warmed air across the
> windshield. In this type of weather, the difference between a
> restrictive heater element and one that allows strong air flow to pass
> through it, makes a huge difference! The same goes for the rear window
> defroster's wire heaters, in that running an EV without a DC-DC with
> sagging 12V levels makes for poor performing rear window defrosters,
> whereas running the 12V system at 14+ volts with a strong DC-DC has
> them
> quickly defogging and or de-icing the rear window.
Rear window heater wires? You must be driving newer cars.
Paul Gooch
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:29:56 -0700
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ceramic Elements...Canadian EV type vs Cheaper
Units
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Roger,
In my EV heating system, I use three electric heater systems, which are all
rated at 120 VAC and still control by 120 VAC control circuits to the
thermostats thru the high limit and operating limit switches.
What I use is a DC-AC inverter for my heating system, so I can use any
standard AC system with its existing controls.
You can use a battery pack voltage up to 144 volts for a 120 VAC resistance
elements and then use a small 250 watt power inverter that comes off the
DC-DC converter from you battery pack. This small inverter is cheaper then
a pair of DC contactors or a 2 pole DC contactor which both DC lines from
the battery pack should be isolated during the charging cycle.
I use standard AC contactors in the 50 amp range with a 120 VAC coils, that
you can get from a electrical supply house or even from Home Depot at the
Contractor Counter.
A 1500 watt heater on 96 volts will be about 1200 watts at about 12 amps. A
AC contactor rating should be at least 3 times that rating or 36 amps or the
next size contactor of 50 amps.
I have now been using a Square D Size 1, 240 VAC 3 pole 50 amp with a 120
vac coil contactor with the three contact coils parallel together which is
use to isolated my battery charger from the batteries and the motor control
systems, for about 30 years and these contacts look new the the day in
install it.
30 years from now, I will be able to get parts for these industrial type
components.
The thermostat circuit in the heater, operates the 120 VAC coil in these
contactors. You must separate the 120 vac tapped off inside the heater to
the control circuit which you would than tie in the 120 vac inverter power.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Daisley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ceramic Elements...Canadian EV type vs Cheaper Units
> Regarding the heater switching issue, below:
>
> I'm about to install a heating system on my EV VW Cabbie. Can someone
> suggest a, hopefully inexpensive, DC relay that can switch the usual 1500
> watt ceramic heaters?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Roger Daisley
> Pullman, WA
> http://www.96-volt.com
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~//~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Yes, they have thermostats, but these are merely inexpensive bi-metal
> flipper type of switches designed to turn on-off the 'AC' current, not DC.
>
> AC does us all a favor, in that it turns itself off 60 times a second,
> what
> is called the cross-over zero point, so ant kind of arcing that might try
> to
> start when the switch opens is extinguished as the either positive or
> negative wave swings down to zero volts. AC switches cannot usually be
> used
> in the same voltage class with DC. In other words, a 120 vac switch will
> probably arc and melt together if used to turn off even a 48 vdc sourced
> load. Example...many of us have used 120 vac hair dryers in our EVs at one
> time or another as a grab-it-off-the-K Mart shelf $9.95 as a temporary
> heater solution. They run just fine off a 120 vdc electric car
> pack...until
> you try to turn one off using its AC-rated on-off switch! It usually only
> works one or two times, then it suddenly arcs, burns, and starts to
> melt-down the hair dryer!
>
> You 'could' use the thermostat to control your EV's heater DC rated
> contactor's coil.
>
> See Ya...John Wayland
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:43:44 -0500
From: Chuck Homic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Real world performance of home made hybrid?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I've done some searching on the interwebs, and aside from 21ponies.com,
I can't find anyone that's made a homebrew PHEV. I was thinking of this
driving home yesterday. Without going to the trouble of installing a
diesel powerplant in my car, I could just stick a small series DC motor
on the end of my crankshaft (ignoring physical size limits), throw 8 or
so leaddies in the trunk and connect a cheap controller. Now I've got a
plug-in hybrid for $2500 plus wires. You'd think with 100Ah batteries
(9600 watts in the bank, 4800 at 50%DOD) and a car that "should" use
350wh/mile, you could supply half that with electric for 25 miles. Now
I wouldn't expect 50mpg out of it, but you'd think my Outback which gets
22-28mpg should be able to get in the high thirties. This setup as a
pure electric should go 20 miles, so for short trips, it should get
better mpg than the lame hybrids available now. For long trips it will
be no worse than my current car (exept for the 500lbs of lead in the trunk).
For those of you ready to reply "shut up and do it" you can sit on your
hands now. I'm looking for some thoughtful analysis, or references to
other similar projects, perhaps some way to frame the calculations so
that they make sense, etc. With my pure-EV donor sitting in the garage
waiting to get its engine yanked, I'm not about to embark on this
project at the same time, so for now it's a thought experiment. :)
------------------------------
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End of EV Digest, Vol 5, Issue 77
*********************************
