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Today's Topics:
1. Re: ANGS and NEDRA record (Eric Udell)
2. Re: Lithium Packs (Ben)
3. Re: 100+ new Li Battery companies (Lee Hart)
4. Re: Design Variables - Controller - Voltage / Current -
Battery - Voltage / Capacity (Roger Stockton)
5. Re: Centrifical Clutch (Lee Hart)
6. Re: How about a CVT and constant speed motor? (Lee Hart)
7. BMS question for Bill Dube ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
8. Re: I want it all! (Dan Frederiksen)
9. Re: I want it all! (Ryan Stotts)
10. Re: NmG Tweety burn on You-Tube... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
11. Re: AGNS and NEDRA record (Doug Weathers)
12. Re: I want it all! (Roger Stockton)
13. Design Variables - Controller - Voltage / Current - Battery -
Voltage / Capacity (Dave (Battery Boy) Hawkins)
14. Re: 100+ new Li Battery companies (Doug Weathers)
15. Re: ANGS and NEDRA record (Jim Husted)
16. Re: Fwd: EVDL] EV "Muscle Cars" (was: Nedra AC records)
(Ryan Stotts)
17. Re: 100+ new Li Battery companies (henry buehler)
18. Re: Forkenswift makes the news (Dan Frederiksen)
19. Re: Driving a 28Vdc coil with 12Vdc (Rod Hower)
20. Re: 100+ new Li Battery companies ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
21. Re: Depth of Discharge - Voltage (Lee Hart)
22. Re: Threading copper rod (Lee Hart)
23. 1947 electric bike with dynamo that stores down hill
electricity for uphill climb (Geopilot)
24. 1947 electric bike with dynamo that stores down hill
electricity for uphill climb (Geopilot)
25. Re: Driving a 28Vdc coil with 12Vdc (Lee Hart)
26. great and easily understandable article about ultracapacitors
in the economist magazine. (Geopilot)
27. Re: 100+ new Li Battery companies (Lee Hart)
28. Re: 1947 electric bike with dynamo that stores down hill
electricity for uphill climb (Roy LeMeur)
29. Re: Forkenswift makes the news (Darin @ forkenswift dot com)
30. Re: Forkenswift makes the news (Mark Maher)
31. KillaCycle -> M & H Tires racer of the month! (Bill Dube)
32. Re: BMS question for Bill Dube (Bill Dube)
33. Solar lithium battery charging (Mark Fowler)
34. Lithium Battery Charging (Mark Fowler)
35. Re: EVDL archive problem (EVDL Administrator)
36. Re: 100+ new Li Battery companies (Jukka J?rvinen)
37. Re: 100+ new Li Battery companies (Willie McKemie)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 16:04:26 -0500
From: "Eric Udell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ANGS and NEDRA record
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Brian D. Hall wrote:
>We lost all of them when Shawn Lawless built ANGS...We want them back....
I have bad news for you Brian. Shawn moved the target again. Last
weekend at the Miami Battery Beach Burnout, I'm pretty sure that ANGS
made a sub 8 second pass at over 90mph in the 8th. [EMAIL PROTECTED] if I recall
correctly.
http://www.home-ontherange.com/drag.mov is a 30M quicktime movie of
ANGS taking a pass Saturday morning. It's kinda hard to see, but the
rider got the tire smoking at the END of the strip.
The top two URL's are slideshows that have ANGS in them. The last two
are videos, one of a pass at the strip ( I don't think it's the record
pass...) and one of Squirrel ( Shawn's rider ) doing a little
"drivetrain testing" in the lot at the strip.
http://www.kyte.tv/ch/31581-bbbvsed/96236-battery-beach-burnout-08
http://www.kyte.tv/channels/view.html?uri=channels/31581/95275
http://www.kyte.tv/ch/31581-bbbvsed/96243-battery-beach-burnout-08
http://www.kyte.tv/ch/31581-bbbvsed/96247-battery-beach-burnout-08
It was all taken with a digital still camera, so there's no sound on the videos.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 16:08:32 -0500
From: Ben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lithium Packs
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I'm with Willie, the unprofessional website doesn't give me a good feeling.
It doesn't have to look pretty, but someone who wants to sell several
thousand dollar products from an ad infested freebie website doesn't inspire
much trust. Even a couple dollars a month will get you a site that stands a
chance of being respected.
Ben
On Feb 1, 2008 12:49 PM, shred <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This is from a few weeks ago.
> "Yesterday I talked with Ken Malitz from electricvehiclesnow.com.
> He said he can supply a 100ah @ 44.8 volts pack with BMS for about
> $4300.00.
> That comes with a 3 year warranty.
> It takes about 90 days to complete & be shipped here.
> He said he stocks the 200ah @ 44.8 volts packs with BMS for $7300.00.
> He also said I can pay for my order via credit card.
> Which I feel offers a little protection. "
> Neal
> This from GBP batteries China
> "price From GBP batteries
> "Our best price of 48V/100Ah polymer pack is USD2730.00/pc, based on 6
> pcs,
> FOB Shenzhen, T/T or L/C payment, the delivery date is within 35 days.
> our quotation includes BMS, not the compatible charger.
> Our best price of 48V battery charger is USD105.00/pc, FOB Shenzhen"
> Neal "
>
> EV Pete wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone purchased from
> > Electricvehiclesnow.com<http://electricvehiclesnow.com/>
> ?
> > How is the product? Did they deliver as promised?
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Lithium-Packs-tp15230345p15231751.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com <http://nabble.com/>.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:09:57 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 100+ new Li Battery companies
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I don't think its a matter of difficulty. If I built a product and
> some home hacker put it into something not originally designed for
> and then something happens and someone dies or is badly injured who
> do you think is going to get sued? The battery makers. EV hobbyists
> are a liability at this time because not enough companies are
> building lithium and its still too new to take that risk.
I don't see it quite that way. If you manufacture a battery, or any
product that might be dangerous if improperly used, you don't want it in
the hands of children or fools. They might get hurt, and it won't do you
any good.
But, you *do* want it in the hands of people who appreciate its merits
and will do things to promote its use. That's why a battery manufacturer
sponsors someone like John Wayland or Bill Dube.
As for lawsuits: When things go wrong, people look for someone to blame.
They go after someone they don't like that has a lot of money. (The
howling mob goes after Dr. Frankenstein because nobody likes him and he
lives in a big castle and so must be rich. :-) So, I think the best way
to avoid being sued is to treat people fairly, and not be greedy and get
rich at other's expense.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 13:15:27 -0800
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Design Variables - Controller - Voltage / Current
- Battery - Voltage / Capacity
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Steve Powers wrote:
> 7. 84 V / 320 A EV-1 - no bypass
> 7 brand new Optimas (but carrying the weight of 9, last
> 2 not hooked up)
> Top speed 42 MPH in 2nd
> Moderate acceleration
>
> 8. 84 V / 450 A EV-1C - no bypass
> 7 brand new Optimas (carrying 9, 2 not hooked up)
> Top speed 42 MPH in 2nd
> Accelerates better than ICE car. No issues.
>
> 9. 96 V / 450 A EV-1C - no bypass
> 8 Optimas (weight of 9, 1 not hooked up)
> Top speed 45 - 46 MPH in 2nd
> Fast acceleration
>
> So, what's the problem? No range with only 8 batts.
> So, now I'm going to drop the voltage back to 84 V, and buddy
> pair my batts - total 14 now. I have no idea what kind of
> performance I am going to get, but adding the weight of 5
> batts, and dropping the voltage to 84 doesn't really sit well
> with me. I'll probably end up taking the 2nd string out and
> replacing it with NiMH eventually - read on for why I think that.
Have you tried the buddy-paired 84V setup yet? I think what you've found is
simply that floodies are a lot less happy about being hit with 300-450A pulses
during discharge, and the stiffer voltage of the Optimas under load translates
into higher speed and more power (quicker acceleration).
I expect that the weight of 5 (a bit over 200lbs) more Optimas will slow your
acceleration slightly vs the single 84V string in #8, but your speed will
remain unchanged. Wire up the bypass and hold on if you want more acceleration
without pushing the controller to 96V. Your tests already show the same top
speed with a single string and either 320A or 450A limits, which tells you that
the single string of Optimas is still loafing, and with a parallel string and
450A limit they're seeing a measely 225A each. Wire up the bypass and you'll
be able to take advantage of more of their current capability (I think you'll
still bump into the 1A bypass current limit adjustment before the YTs break a
sweat, but you might be able to get at least another 100A this way).
If you keep running the EV1 controller, your NiMH calculations may be off. If
the NiMH isn't capable of handling the full current pulses from the controller,
you'll need a string of YTs in there anyway. So, the cost per 12V block is
actually that of a YT + however large capacity NiMH array you construct + the
rest of the bit and pieces to hook it all up and make it work. If you can
charge the YTs well and if buddy-pairs gives you enough capacity that you can
limit the discharges to 50%, you could get over 1000 cycles from them. You
will be hard pressed to get better life than this from an array of consumer
NiMH cells. I wouldn't even attempt using NiMH without a thermal management
strategy if you're in a warm climate (and I think you are).
I think this could be a good application for low-power density LiIon, such as
the ThunderSky product. Perhaps Victor has some below spec 90Ah cells he would
be willing to sell relatively inexpensively? ;^> Seems like a string of 23
cells would be just about right as a booster pack for the main 84V string of
AGMs. A simple (big) diode between the LiIon and AGM strings would keep the Li
string from seeing the peak charge voltage of the AGMs and ensure that the
strings are connected only when the AGM string sags below about 1.9-2V/cell.
You might want to include the ability to disconnect the Li string entirely if a
cell's voltage dropped too far...
Cheers,
Roger.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:25:50 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Centrifical Clutch
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Josh Creel wrote:
> What about using a large centrifical clutch behind the motor to a direct
> drive to a low geared rear end? Could you use a smaller say 9" motor? I'm
> thinking the motor could turn 300 to 400 rpm before the clutch would engage,
> then allow the vehicle to start to move with out puting a stall load on the
> motor. but when running down the road at speed, the clutch would be fully
> engaged. Any thoughts?
You could do this. It works fine on all sorts of small vehicles
(minibikes, go-karts, etc.).
But it is less useful for EVs. Electric motors can produce torque at 0
speed, so they don't have the problem starting out from a dead stop that
ICEs do (though you might with a single-phase AC motor). A centrifugal
clutch does not multiply torque, so you don't get any transmission-like
benefits.
With an electric motor, I think it makes more sense to consider a torque
converter. On a small EV, this could be a variable-speed belt like the
Comet CVTs. On a larger EV, it could be a locking torque converter from
an automatic transmission. These can multiply the torque as well as
reduce the speed, giving you the benefits of a transmission without the
weight and shifting.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:41:36 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How about a CVT and constant speed motor?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> But high speed does require a motor that's designed to handle high
> frequencies. Normal industrial AC motors will have excessively high
> core losses at higher frequencies (leading to excessive heating
> and reduced safe power levels); you probably can't take them over
> 120Hz.
That's exactly what they do with industrial inverters; they run 60 Hz
motors at 120 Hz maximum, because that's about as high as you can go
with normal laminations.
Indeed, I find that a normal 60 Hz motor runs at almost exactly the same
temperature at 120 Hz. Its core losses double, but because it's running
at double the RPM, it also gets twice the cooling from its internal fan.
If you start with a 4-pole motor (1750 RPM at 60 Hz), then 120 Hz is
about 3500 RPM. This is no strain on the bearings or rotor strength, either.
A special purpose AC EV motor is designed to run at 4 times that speed
(13,000 RPM for the GM EV1, for example). This requires much higher
frequencies, and so much better core materials are needed. Virtually
nothing in these motors is the same as a garden variety 60 Hz motor.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 21:52:47 +0000
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] BMS question for Bill Dube
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu (ev list)
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hi,
I was reading about your battery pack on your website. It appears you are
using blocks of
9 cells. Have you had any individual cell problems or have you checked for
them?
Thanks
Rick Prentiss
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 20:56:15 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] I want it all!
To: Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Electric Vehicle Discussion
List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Roderick Wilde wrote:
> It produces 1475 ft/lbs of torque from 0 to 100
> RPMs. It is only rated at 450 hp (336 KW) but I believe this is continuous.
> It is only 8.8" long and 25.5" diameter. You could put two of these end to
> end under the hood. I believe this would be the hot set up for a quick car
> if someone would build a double breadbox sized 1.4 megawatt AC controller.
> http://www.drs.com/Products/Brushless_Motor.aspx?cat=Power_Systems&subcat=Sub_Cat_4
>
what is the price?
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 16:51:51 -0600
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] I want it all!
To: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Electric Vehicle
Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Roderick wrote:
> the hot set up for a quick car
Would it be all that quick considering it's rpm limit? It's got
decent power, but I don't know how much performance it might have.
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 18:45:09 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] NmG Tweety burn on You-Tube...
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Hey Lock,
Thanks for the heads up. Actually, I posted this on You-Tube at work - when
I should have been working also. I was showing it to some co-workers and they
said I should put it on You-Tube. Never did that before and was in a hurry
and had help from a group guys that also have never posted anything!
Turns out the "About This Video" is editable which I just did, but it won't
be up for 6 to 8 hours. A You-Tube thing.
Ken
In a message dated 1/31/2008 11:35:26 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Dang. I am supposed to be working, and I have no EV-related self
control. Does YouTube report "six viewings" if I just now watched yer
vid six times myself? <grin>
Wish your "About This Video" had a bit more of an explanation about
what your Tweety !EV! is all about. Maybe add a Comment if an [E]dit
not available to you?
It's just that your nearest competition in the "Tweety" YouTube Tags
(your views: 130 ...thus far) appears to be a vid by "Lil Tweety & MC
Magic" (Views: 317,521 in one year) or possibly folks that enjoy the
"Bad Ol Puddy Tat" vid (Views: 255,878 in one year). Or maybe "Tweety -
A Tale Of Two Kitties" (Views: 123,674).
My guess is, for much of the views (other than the EVDL crowd <hehe>)
ya might wish to be `splainin' EV stuff to the "chicano latino mexican
rap" music-lovin' ppls. A few words about quiet clean American
Electrons, but also what throbbin' fun is available too, eh? eh?
(hmmm... Canadian content leaking in here... <g>)
In one day (since you posted), already nine vids added to YouTube
w/Tags that include "Tweety"...
Oh yeah. And some folks are in touch with Tweetys "Dark Side",
apparently. Good luck with that, eh? <hehehe>
`Nuf said
One World
Respect
LOCK
:)
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 17:19:56 -0700
From: Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] AGNS and NEDRA record
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi all,
Actually, I gather that Shawn's bike is called AGNS, which stands for
"All Go No Show". I changed the spelling in the subject line.
There's a picture at the bottom of the NEDRA 100mph club page.
<http://www.nedra.com/100mph_club.html#agnus>
The caption and the bike itself actually has a little "u" in the name.
I wonder why?
Eric Udell wrote:
> Brian D. Hall wrote:
>
>> We lost all of them when Shawn Lawless built ANGS...We want them back....
>
> ... that ANGS
> made a sub 8 second pass ... movie of
> ANGS taking a pass Saturday morning... slideshows that have ANGS in them.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://www.gdunge.com
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 16:20:51 -0800
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] I want it all!
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Roy LeMeur wrote:
> Jeff Major wrote:
> > You might be comparing output power of 200
> > kW(Victor's) to 500 kW input of the Zilla. The efficiency
> > of the DC motor(s) at 2000 amps might be in the 40 % range,
> > or worse. Maybe not such a "long way".
>
> Might be. Both types of drives lose efficiency at max output
> levels. How much exactly I am not sure. Maybe some of the
> number crunchers on this list can provide some ballpark estimates.
I think what is sorely lacking is objective dyno results for a vehicle like the
Zombie. We can handwave and estimate all we like and still not know what the
real situation is.
500kW is very difficult to realise in practice.
A Z2K is spec'd for:
1900A @ 200V = 380kW input
1770A @ 300V = 531kW input
1600A @ 400V = 640kW input
(halve the currents and powers for a Z1K).
In the not too distant past, it has been made clear that the Zilla really
shouldn't be operated at the extreme upper end of its voltage range, so the
640kW spec can not actually be reached. Those running the stiffest Li packs
might be able to approach (or even exceed) the 500kW level (even with an
ideally stiff chemistry, every milli-ohm of resistance in the cells and wiring
drops 1.5A at 1500A), but for those running even the stiffest lead-acid, you'll
peak nearer the 380kW point than 500kW: you can't exceed 400V no load, and even
the best AGMs are sagging to nearly half their resting voltage at 1500A+.
The bigger question is, how much of the electrical input makes it to the rear
wheels? Looking at the 8"ADC chart on the EV Parts site, it looks like the
motor loses about 5% going from 250A to 400A. The best one could hope for is
that the efficiency continues to drop linearly as the current increases, such
that it would drop by 58% as the motor current is increased from 250A to 2000A.
The peak efficiency is about 90%, so this suggests a *best-case* efficiency of
32% @ 2000A. And remember, that at 0RPM the efficiency is 0%, so at launch, if
the controller can stuff 2000A through the motor continuously as the vehicle
acclerates, the efficiency will rise from 0% to a *maximum* of 32% (the
series->parallel shift drops the current through each motor to 1000A max and
the mechanical power output should jump due to the increased motor efficiency
(about a 25% jump for an ADC 8" going from 2000A to 1000A!); I think John has
remarked in the past at the surge of power felt following!
the shift). EV Parts has a nice torque plot for the ADC 9" that goes out to
1200A and suggests that the 9" might operate as high as 50-55% efficient at
that current (I suspect their chart may not be based on actual dyno
measurements, but sensible extrapolation of ADC's plots based on the assumption
that torque will continue to rise about linearly with further increases in
current and that RPM and efficiency will continue to drop linearly with
increased torque): <http://www.evpartsgo.com/img/mt2119torquecurvebyus.PDF>.
I don't doubt that John's siamese 8 is operating below 40% efficiency when
seeing 2000A through each section, but the good news is for Mike W., since it
appears that on the same battery HP he might expect 15-20% more shaft power
from his siamese 9's... while hitting them with 2000A ;^> Of course, he won't
see quite as big a gain at the series-parellel shift, but there aren't any free
lunches.
Roger.
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 17:26:29 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: "Dave (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Design Variables - Controller - Voltage / Current -
Battery - Voltage / Capacity
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Steve,
As a newbie I managed to get 10,000 miles out of 8 volt Trojan floodies using a
Cursit 1231 controller, and 20,000 miles out of a pack of T-145 6 volters
running a 1200 amp Rapture controller. I only got 7500 miles out of a pack of
YT's, but they were used, and I tortured them! I think the key to longevity is
the lowest voltage you pull the pack down to, and with the T-145's I wouldn't
go below 130 volts with my analog dash meter on a 144 volt pack, allowing for
meter accuracy and the "runt" in the litter!
Suck Amps,
BB
>Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:17:12 -0800 (PST)
>From: Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<much snippage>
>What I have learned is that lead acid batteries (in my
>opinion) are junk. It doesn't matter if they are
>Trojan flooded lead or premium AGM. By the time you
>drain them at any kind of EV drain rate you are going
>no where fast (or in some cases with a 320 A
>controller slow). Cycle life - even worse.
<snip>
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 17:32:08 -0700
From: Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 100+ new Li Battery companies
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Lee Hart wrote:
> So, I think the best way
> to avoid being sued is to treat people fairly, and not be greedy and get
> rich at other's expense.
So, Lee, do you have a better way to get rich? :)
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://www.gdunge.com
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 16:46:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ANGS and NEDRA record
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
--- Eric Udell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Brian D. Hall wrote:
>
> >We lost all of them when Shawn Lawless built
> ANGS...We want them back....
>
> I have bad news for you Brian. Shawn moved the
> target again. Last
> weekend at the Miami Battery Beach Burnout, I'm
> pretty sure that ANGS
> made a sub 8 second pass at over 90mph in the 8th.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] if I recall
> correctly.
Hey all
Shawn had called me while I was down at San Diego
airport (thanks again for helping me kill a 1/2 hour
time off my wait 8^) and told me about the runs made
with AGNS. Shawn got tired of burning up those fancy
smancy tea sipping high priced permags and went with a
single motor setup with actual meat in the brushes 8^)
I helped walk Shawn through a quick brush advancement
and with about zero test and tune the bike barely made
it to BBB. There is no doubt as Shawn refines this
bike it'll do 100 MPH in the 1/8th!
I didn't get all the facts straight as Shawn was
talking a mile a minute (kind of like what I hear I
do)(but like after 27 cups of coffee 8^) I also had
the aiport noise and such to deal with so I can't
quote any hard facts and have been waiting for a
report from Shawn. I know he's busy, and knowing I
still haven't had time /energy to do one myself that
it just gets tough trying to get caught up after
EVents like these.
Anyway, I've been saying it for a couple years now
that the next best motor is just waiting to be found
(both in daily and racer) and well, Shawn may have
just found such a motor, time will tell. I do know
that Shawn has a whole new set of corners to start
shaving off of the bike, and it's not seen it's full
potential, not EVen close.
Anyway just a little behind the scene info that I can
add to the pot here until Shawn can pry his ass away
from Mickey 8^o of course it might be Minnie that
Shawn spends all his time with 8^)
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 20:28:37 -0600
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: EVDL] EV "Muscle Cars" (was: Nedra AC
records)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Install a Z2K, and 13" WarP.
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 20:30:40 -0600
From: "henry buehler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 100+ new Li Battery companies
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
the idea would be to have a number (to use a number 600 too small ) of
modules cell, coil, charger. repairable, recycle able parts.which power
connects to busses. all the modules would be controled by SONET (
synchronous optical network ) a disposable unit with at least triple
redundency, and an interactive program for connecting the unit to the
modules like "Spocks Brain"
On 2/1/08, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > Strangely enough this type of ignition is called a "capacitive
> discharge" ignition..... dbeard
> >
> > Z
> Because these systems are based on a capacitor [relatively] slowly
> charging from 12V source
> and rapidly discharging through a primary winding of the "ignition coil"
> which is just a transformer with around 1:100 to 1:150 winding ratio.
> Secondary then gets near 1,200V - 1,500V volts and this applied to a
> spark plug which of course arcs, igniting fuel mixture.
>
> Victor
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:36:44 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Forkenswift makes the news
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Rod Hower skrev:
> http://ecomodder.com/blog/2008/01/30/a-672-electric-car/
>
yeah it's nice. should be an inspiration for what is possible cost wise
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 20:07:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Driving a 28Vdc coil with 12Vdc
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I built Lee's circuit posted earlier and you can run
a free simulation by downloading this program,
http://www.linear.com/designtools/software/switchercad.jsp
I can send the circuit for simulation if interested.
Here's the doubler,
D1 1N4001
+12v________|\|________________
| |/| C1 | |
| 10,000uF _|_+ |
| 25vdc ___ |
| | |_
|_____E C______| _| K1 SW-200
D2 _|_ _\_/_ | _| contactor coil
1N4001 /_\ |B > R1 _| 28 vdc, 56 ohms
|______| Q1 > 120 |
| PNP > 2W |
> R2 TIP42 | |
> 120 gnd |
> 2W |
|_____________________|
|
switch \
|
gnd
I added 1,000 uF increments to this circuit until it
worked with 12Vdc, and it was 5,000uF. I sent the
tripler circuit to David Roden who will hopefully post
it to http://evdl.org/lib/index.html
In my simulation it went up to 34Vdc to pull in the
contactor. I'll report back to see how this works.
Using 5,000uF minimum in Lee's doubler circuit will
work at 12Vdc.
Thanks,
Rod
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 20:15:48 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 100+ new Li Battery companies
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Hard honest work.
On Feb 1, 2008, at 4:32 PM, Doug Weathers wrote:
> So, Lee, do you have a better way to get rich?
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 22:46:29 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Depth of Discharge - Voltage
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>, "Shoop,
Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Dave Delman wrote:
> How do I correlate DOD depth of discharge for my 13 x 12V AGM pack to
> voltage?
According to the Deka Intimidator data sheet at
http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/assets/base/1143.pdf
the 100% SOC voltage is 12.8v at 68 deg.F. I think you will find it is a
bit higher than this when the batteries are new or warmer.
Though not on the data sheet, 0% SOC (dead) is about 11.9v at 68 deg.F
for all 12v lead-acid batteries.
Here's the rule of thumb I use to estimate SOC (State Of Charge) for a
sealed 12v battery:
100% 12.9v
90% 12.8v
80% 12.7v
70% 12.6v
60% 12.5v
50% 12.4v
40% 12.3v
30% 12.2v
20% 12.1v
10% 12.0v
0% 11.9v
Caution: These measurements are only accurate after the battery has sat
with no charging or discharging for at least 8 hours. After charging,
the voltage will be higher; after discharges, the voltage will be lower.
Voltage measurements while charging, or immediately after charging are
notoriously inaccurate. Likewise, voltage measurements while discharging
are highly dependent on current, and so not very useful.
> What would be a reasonable DOD for this pack and how do I know when
> I'm there?
The "reasonable" depth of discharge depends on current. If all you have
is a voltmeter, then don't discharge them below 10.5v under load. The
heavier the load current, the shallower the discharge can be before you
reach this point.
Example: Your 12v 9A31 is a 100 amphour battery at the 20-hour rate;
this means it should fall to 10.5v at 5 amps in 20 hours. But if you
load it at 25 amps, it should fall to 10.5v in just 190 minutes --
that's 80 amphours. At 100 amps, it will only take about 30 minutes.
An E-meter or equivalent SOC gauge would provide more accurate results.
They work by measuring current, and multiplying it by time to compute
amphours. It figures out and displays SOC for you, and warns you if you
go too low.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 22:53:05 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Threading copper rod
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Andre' Blanchard wrote:
> Even better is tellurium copper alloy 145 (99.5% copper, 0.5% tellurium,
> 0.01% phosphorus) it is used a lot for EDM electrodes and is very nice to
> machine. I have even ground some on a surface grinder, no problems with
> the wheel loading up, they claim it is not as bad for you as beryllium alloys.
Neat! I never heard of that one. Where would one get such an alloy? Is
there a trade name for it?
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 20:56:27 -0800
From: Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] 1947 electric bike with dynamo that stores down hill
electricity for uphill climb
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/02/wayback_machine_17.php
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 20:58:21 -0800
From: Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] 1947 electric bike with dynamo that stores down hill
electricity for uphill climb
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
a more beautiful photo in the design museum
a beautiful design!
http://www.artdes.mmu.ac.uk/visualresources/designcouncil/popup.php?id=1
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/02/wayback_machine_17.php
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 23:07:07 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Driving a 28Vdc coil with 12Vdc
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Rod Hower wrote:
> I built Lee's [doubler] circuit posted earlier...
> I added 1,000 uF increments to this circuit until it
> worked with 12Vdc, and it was 5,000uF.
Thanks! I built one, too, and found that it *barely* pulled in the
contactor with a 4700uF capacitor; like 1/4 second, which is pretty slow
for something that should go "clack"! You want a fast pull-in to
maximize contact life.
10,000uF was noticeably faster. Since electrolytic capacitors age, I
wouldn't trust a smaller value to work when cold or in a few years.
Note that I also removed the freewheel diode wired across the coil. This
*considerably* speeds up the drop-out time, which again extends contact
life.
> I sent the tripler circuit to David Roden who will hopefully post
> it to http://evdl.org/lib/index.html. In my simulation it went up
> to 34Vdc to pull in the contactor. I'll report back to see how this
> works.
I haven't built the tripler version yet, either. But I think these "28v"
coils are really 32v, so it should work much better.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 21:08:23 -0800
From: Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] great and easily understandable article about
ultracapacitors in the economist magazine.
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10601407
Electricity storage
Ne plus ultra
Jan 31st 2008
From The Economist print edition
A new version of an old idea is threatening the battery industry
Illustration by David Simonds
PUT the pedal to the metal in the XH-150?a souped-up Saturn Vue?and
watch the instruments. Sure enough, the speedometer shoots up in a
satisfactory way. But an adjacent dial shows something else: the amount
of charge in the car's capacitors is decreasing. Ease off the
accelerator and as the speedo winds down the capacitors charge up again.
Such a capacitor gauge could become a common sight on the dashboards of
the future. A capacitor can discharge and recharge far faster than a
battery, making it ideal both for generating bursts of speed and for
soaking up the energy collected by regenerative braking. AFS Trinity, a
company based in Washington state, has turned that insight into a piece
of equipment that it has fitted into an otherwise standard production
model as an experiment. The result?the XH-150?was unveiled at this
year's Detroit motor show.
In fact the XH-150 is a three-way hybrid, employing a petrol engine and
conventional lithium-ion batteries as well as its special capacitors. An
overnight charge gives it an all-electric range of 40 miles (60km),
after which the petrol engine needs to come into play. AFS Trinity says
the vehicle is capable of more than 80mph and returns the equivalent of
150 miles per gallon (more than 60km/litre) in normal use. Edward Furia,
the firm's chief executive, reckons the extra kit would add around
$8,700 to the price of a petrol-only vehicle were it put into mass
production.
This, however, may be only the start. Eventually, the so-called
ultracapacitors on which the XH-150 is based may supplant rather than
merely supplement a car's batteries. And if that happens, a lot of other
batteries may be for the chop, too. For it is possible that the long and
expensive search for a better battery to power the brave, new,
emission-free electrical world has been following the wrong trail.
Full capacity
A traditional capacitor stores electricity as static charges, positive
and negative, on two electrodes that are separated by an insulator. This
works best when the electrodes are parallel with each other, which means
they need to have smooth surfaces. The amount of charge that can be
stored depends on the surface area of the electrodes, the strength and
composition of the insulation between them, and how close they are
together. If the electrodes are then connected by a wire, a current will
flow from one to the other. A battery, by contrast, stores what is known
as an electrochemical potential. Its two electrodes are made of
different chemicals?ones that will release energy when they react. But
because the electrodes are physically separated from one another their
chemical constituents can react only by remote control.
This is able to happen because the space between the electrodes is
filled with a material called an electrolyte which allows ions
(electrically charged atoms, or groups of atoms) to pass from one
electrode to the other and thus combine with their chemical complements.
To compensate for this movement of ions, electrons have to move in the
opposite direction?and if the electrodes are connected by a conducting
wire running through a useful circuit, that is the route they will take.
Chemical electrodes of this sort can store a lot more energy than the
static electricity of a capacitor. But the whole process of ion movement
and chemical reaction is slower than the movement of electrons in a
capacitor. Hence the different advantages of the two storage systems:
capacitors give speed; batteries, endurance.
The reason ultracapacitors may be able to bridge the gap between speed
and endurance is that, like batteries, they use ions and an electrolyte
rather than simply relying on the static charges. In an ultracapacitor,
positively charged ions gather on the surface of the negatively charged
electrode and negative ions on the surface of the positive electrode.
Since the ions do not actually combine with the atoms of the electrodes,
no chemical reaction is involved. The ionic layers are also very close
indeed to the surfaces of the electrodes, and obviously run parallel
with them whatever their shape. This, in turn, means clever engineering
can increase the surface area (and thus the storage capacity) without
increasing the volume. And that gives endurance without sacrificing speed.
Existing ultracapacitors get their extra surface area by using
electrodes coated with carbon and etched to produce holes, rather like a
sponge. This gives about 5% of the storage capacity of a battery. But
Joel Schindall and his colleagues at the Massachusetts Institute of
Technology think they can do better than that using nanoengineering.
Instead of digging holes in the electrodes, they are coating them with a
forest of carbon nanotubes, each five nanometres (billionths of a metre)
wide. This, they hope, will push capacitors to 50% of a battery's
storage capacity.
A different approach has been taken by EEStor, a Texan firm that has
developed a capacitor it claims can store ?very high? levels of energy
using a special insulator called barium titanate rather than an
electrolyte. Its ?Electrical Energy Storage Units? will go into
production later this year. EEStor recently signed a deal to supply
Lockheed Martin, a big defence contractor, which wants to use the
storage units in rugged packs that will power a variety of military and
security equipment.
EEStor also envisages employing its devices to build an ?energy bank? to
store off-peak power and release it when demand is high. One use of such
a bank, the firm suggests, could be the rapid charging of electric
cars?which would, of course, also be fitted with capacitors.
That would remove a big obstacle to the adoption of electric vehicles in
general?that it takes so long to refuel them. If a driver could pull
into an electrical filling station and top up his capacitors as rapidly
as he can now replenish his petrol tank it would both increase the
effective range of all-electric vehicles and decrease resistance to
buying them in the first place.
At least one firm is backing the logic of this argument in its showrooms
rather than just in prototypes. Ian Clifford, the chief executive of the
Zenn Motor Company in Toronto, has done a deal with EEStor to replace
the lead-acid batteries in the small, low-speed electric cars that his
firm sells for urban use. Mr Clifford reckons that ultracapacitors will
transform his vehicles and enable them to be used on motorways as well
as city streets.
Whether ultracapacitors really will take over the market now dominated
by batteries, rather than merely supplementing them in it, remains to be
seen?for batteries themselves are also getting better. They do have a
chance, though, of being one of the 21st century's disruptive
technologies. And even if they do not replace batteries entirely, the
world will surely be seeing more of them in applications which need that
little bit of extra oomph from time to time. After all, as Dr Schindall
points out, animals use two types of muscle fibre: one for endurance and
one for rapid movements. So it could make sense for machines to do the same.
------------------------------
Message: 27
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 23:09:11 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 100+ new Li Battery companies
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Doug Weathers wrote:
>> So, Lee, do you have a better way to get rich?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hard honest work.
You got it! I'd rather be happy than rich. Good thing, too; because with
EVs, I'll never get rich! :-)
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 28
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 21:27:33 -0800
From: Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 1947 electric bike with dynamo that stores down
hill electricity for uphill climb
To: EVDL EVDL <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Geopilot wrote:
> a more beautiful photo in the design museum
> a beautiful design!
> http://www.artdes.mmu.ac.uk/visualresources/designcouncil/popup.php?id=1
> http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/02/wayback_machine_17.php
Very Kewl!
I rode a Bowden Spacelander once many years ago but never knew there was an
electric prototype made in 1946. More info here-
http://nbhaa.com/indexBowden.html
~~~~~~
Roy LeMeur
_________________________________________________________________
Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!
http://biggestloser.msn.com/
------------------------------
Message: 29
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:44:23 -0500
From: "Darin @ forkenswift dot com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Forkenswift makes the news
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
The car may be slow, but it's apparently powerful enough to take down a
commercial web server! There was so much traffic to that article
(because Digg.com picked it up) that the server went down in flames.
Anyway, still driving the car, still grinning. And we still have plans
for tweaking it some more ... when the weather warms up again.
cheers-
Darin
>
>> >
>> > http://ecomodder.com/blog/2008/01/30/a-672-electric-car/
>> >
------------------------------
Message: 30
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 21:36:56 -1000
From: "Mark Maher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Forkenswift makes the news
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hey Darin,
Just reading the full thread of your development on this car. I love the
adventurous and resourceful spirit you and Ivan brought to this project.
Pretty inspiring, for real.
- Mark
On Feb 1, 2008 8:44 PM, Darin @ forkenswift dot com <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> The car may be slow, but it's apparently powerful enough to take down a
> commercial web server! There was so much traffic to that article
> (because Digg.com picked it up) that the server went down in flames.
>
> Anyway, still driving the car, still grinning. And we still have plans
> for tweaking it some more ... when the weather warms up again.
>
> cheers-
> Darin
>
> >
> >> >
> >> > http://ecomodder.com/blog/2008/01/30/a-672-electric-car/
> >> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 31
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 20:04:43 -0700
From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] KillaCycle -> M & H Tires racer of the month!
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
The KillaCycle has been selected as the M & H tires "Racer of the Month"
http://www.mandhtires.com/?fuseaction=main.rom
Quite an honor to be selected by these folks.
They have been selling drag racing tires for about 40 years, maybe longer.
Bill Dube'
------------------------------
Message: 32
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 00:18:29 -0700
From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] BMS question for Bill Dube
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
We run parallel groups of cells to build the amperage we need. We
torture each cell at over 60 Celsius by pulling about 175 amps out of
each one. We have not had individual cell problems. We have had a tab
weld come loose because we did not set the welder current just right,
and that apparently caused the remaining cells in that parallel group
to be "tortured" more than the rest of the pack. No real grief, just
imbalance.
We first ran 8 cells in parallel, then 9, now 11.
Bill Dube'
At 02:52 PM 2/1/2008, you wrote:
>Hi,
> I was reading about your battery pack on your website. It appears
> you are using blocks of
>9 cells. Have you had any individual cell problems or have you
>checked for them?
>Thanks
>Rick Prentiss
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 33
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 15:52:50 +1100
From: "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Solar lithium battery charging
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi EV List,
I would like to charge 4x TS Lithium cells on my workbench.
I'm thinking of using an old laptop power supply (19V 2.4A)
Now can someone that knows more about the inner workings of laptop
power supplies than I tell me whether such an idea is feasible, and
how best to hook it up.
The cells will have a BMS hooked up that will shunt off extra charge
current when the cell voltage gets to 4.2V
(4 x 4.2 = 16.8)
My ideas so far:
1) Just hook it up - the electronics in the PS will hopefully
gracefully handle the voltage difference and not let the blue smoke
out, and the BMS will prevent an overcharge.
2) Connect the PS to the battery in series with a 12V light - as the
voltage difference between the PS and the Batt lowers, the light will
dim and allow more current through.
3) Connect the PS to the battery in series with some diodes to drop
the voltage to a more even level.
What do you think?
Is a laptop PS just completely the wrong thing for charging Lithium batts?
Mark
------------------------------
Message: 34
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 15:56:35 +1100
From: "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Lithium Battery Charging
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
(Sorry - please ignore the Solar charging subject - that's a different plan :-)
Hi EV List,
I would like to charge 4x TS Lithium cells on my workbench.
I'm thinking of using an old laptop power supply (19V 2.4A)
Now can someone that knows more about the inner workings of laptop
power supplies than I tell me whether such an idea is feasible, and
how best to hook it up.
The cells will have a BMS hooked up that will shunt off extra charge
current when the cell voltage gets to 4.2V
(4 x 4.2 = 16.8)
My ideas so far:
1) Just hook it up - the electronics in the PS will hopefully
gracefully handle the voltage difference and not let the blue smoke
out, and the BMS will prevent an overcharge.
2) Connect the PS to the battery in series with a 12V light - as the
voltage difference between the PS and the Batt lowers, the light will
dim and allow more current through.
3) Connect the PS to the battery in series with some diodes to drop
the voltage to a more even level.
What do you think?
Is a laptop PS just completely the wrong thing for charging Lithium batts?
Mark
------------------------------
Message: 35
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 03:57:47 -0500
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVDL archive problem
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Thanks to Nabble support, the problems with the archive seem to have been
resolved. I appreciate your patience.
http://www.evdl.org/archive/
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator
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------------------------------
Message: 36
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 13:49:33 +0200
From: Jukka J?rvinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 100+ new Li Battery companies
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
You're right :) MP3.. HA !
Then why ?
Simply bacause all those come easily with embedded Linux CPU we have
there. You can have all normal computer services. If you wish.
Normal load from the battery is less than 10% (in average) on CPU.
And ... they all were there already before 4 Gb Nanos etc were available....
I rather had my music album updated via WiFi than USB stick when I came
home with my EV.
An option.. nothing else.
-Jukka
[EMAIL PROTECTED] kirjoitti:
>>From the http://www.fevt.com/pro.html website.
> "Products
> Energy Storing Solutions:
>
> EnergyPacktm (EP) is a complete energy storing solution for industrial use.
> This product line consists of Lithium batteries, chargers, and a computer
> system which communicates and adjusts the chargers, sealed casing and few
> optional devices (Bluetooth adapter, GPS-module, MP3 player, etc.) which can
> be installed inside the casing.
> "
>
> ???????????????
>
> Ok I can possible see needing blue tooth adapter and ever to a lesser degree
> a GPS-module but why would a battery pack or battery management system need
> an MP3 player???????
> Lol
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of Jukka J?rvinen
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 10:04 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 100+ new Li Battery companies
>
> Now, now.. do not forget me from the list :)
> (AD !)
>
> www.fevt.com
>
> -Jukka
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] kirjoitti:
>> Pack Builders...
>>
>>
>> http://www.mpoweruk.com/
>>
>> http://www.boundlesscorporation.com/
>>
>> http://www.modenergy.com/index.html
>>
>> http://www.micro-power.com/default.asp?id=9
>>
>> http://www.advancedlithium.com/about.html
>>
>> http://enerdel.com/content/view/38/59/
>>
>> http://www.nexergy.com/default.htm
>>
>>
>
------------------------------
Message: 37
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 07:35:24 -0600
From: Willie McKemie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 100+ new Li Battery companies
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Sat, Feb 02, 2008 at 01:49:33PM +0200, Jukka J?rvinen wrote:
> Simply bacause all those come easily with embedded Linux CPU we have
> there. You can have all normal computer services. If you wish.
WOW! Now that IS exciting! I presume with a Nokia 800, EEEPC, or
other one could ssh, xdmcp, or vnc into your box and do quite a bit of
tinkering and displaying? Might even be able to screw it up beyond all
repair :-)
I eagerly await news of availability.
--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 49 days 2 hours 25 minutes
------------------------------
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