Leibniz's monads and comp as functionalisms

2012-10-26 Thread Roger Clough
Leibniz's monads and comp as functionalisms Could the metaphysical theory of mind of Leibniz involving monads, the concept of comp (that mental functions can be simulated by calculations) and the philosophy of mind known as functionalism be similar ? The answer is yes if we consider them by what

Re: Re: Dennett and others on qualia

2012-10-26 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Alberto G. Corona Instead of trying to understand these phenomena under the materialist function of mind (what they are) it is IMHO more useful to understand them by what they do-- create the subjective or mental correlates to the physical sources. The functional theory of mind then is the

Re: Re: Dennett and others on qualia

2012-10-26 Thread Roger Clough
Hi meekerdb Please explain why the criticism of Dennett is wrong. This is another drive-by shooting of yours. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/26/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: meekerdb

Re: Re: Dennett and others on qualia

2012-10-26 Thread Roger Clough
Hi meekerdb Quanta do exist, and can be measured, but by definition they can only be experienced as qualia, (another word for experience) which can't be measured. Quanta are within spacetime, qualia are beyond spacetime. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/26/2012 Forever is a long time,

Re: Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Richard, Is there some way, such as reducing the dimensions of strings to zero, that one can transverse from the world of extension (the physical world) to that of inextended experience or theory? Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/26/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the

Even more compact dimensions Re: Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Brent, What happens -- or is it even possible -- to collapse the dimensions down to one (which I conjecture might be time), or zero (Platonia or mind). Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/26/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the

Re: Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Richard Ruquist
No Roger, In string theory dimensions are conserved but can undergo extreme modification such as in compactification where formerly orthogonal dimensions become embedded in 3D space in spite of what Brent thinks. However, the string theory monads that result from compactification have many of the

comp and functionalism

2012-10-26 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stathis Papaioannou It is suggested that computers can possibly simulate the mind at least functionally, perhaps it has already been done: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functionalism_%28philosophy_of_mind%29 Since mental states are identified by a functional role, they are said to be

Wow! Re: Re: Strings are not in space-time, they are on space-time

2012-10-26 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King Wow ! This connects up with what I have been speculating, namely that comp or at least some sort of calculation, can, if not recreate the brainmind, at least simulate what it does. I need to study more about your theory. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/26/2012

Re: Re: Re: Solipsism = 1p

2012-10-26 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, October 26, 2012 1:01:34 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: We are atoms, molecules, cells, tissues, and organisms. Whatever we do is what the laws of physics *actually are*. Your assumptions

Monads as mental/physical occasions of experience. Re: Re: Strings are not in space-time, they are on space-time

2012-10-26 Thread Roger Clough
STEPHEN: Hi Richard, How does Vafa explain the stability/instability of compactified dimensions? My chief worry is that all of the stringy and loopy theories assume a pre-existing continuum of space-time of some sort, the very Aristotelian substance idea that Bruno's argument

Re: What If A Zombie Is What You Need?

2012-10-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Oct 2012, at 07:10, meekerdb wrote: On 10/24/2012 9:23 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: Or what if we don't care? We don't care about slaughtering cattle, which are pretty smart as computers go. We manage not to think about starving children in Africa, and they *are* humans. And we

Re: Re: Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Richard Ruquist Thank you, but monads are not extended in space, they are mental and so inextended. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/26/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist

Re: Strings are not in space-time, they are on space-time

2012-10-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Oct 2012, at 15:06, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/25/2012 7:58 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote: Stephan, Since yesterday it occurred to me that you may be thinking of the 10 or more dimensions of string theory as being orthogonal because they were so before the big bang. But the dimensions

Re: Predictive physiological anticipation preceding seemingly unpredictable stimuli: a meta-analysis

2012-10-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Oct 2012, at 17:55, Alberto G. Corona wrote: But I don not mean such kind of anticipation. such anticipation by gathering information and computation is a fundamental activity of living beings. OK. I refer to adivination. I suppose that a definition of adivination is the

Re: wave function collapse

2012-10-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
Richard, On 25 Oct 2012, at 18:42, Richard Ruquist wrote: Bruno, Doesn't the Gleason Theorem negate MWI by assigning probabilities? Richard On the contrary. Gleason theorem solves the measure problem intrinsic in the Everett MWI, it makes the probabilities into comp (or weakening) first

Re: Dennett and others on qualia

2012-10-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Oct 2012, at 18:57, meekerdb wrote: Good points. The contrast is usually qualia-v-quanta. I think color can be communicated and we have an RGB language for doing so that makes it more quanta than qualia. So extending your point to Schrodinger, if you're a wine connoisseur you have

Re: Against Mechanism

2012-10-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Oct 2012, at 19:35, meekerdb wrote: On 10/25/2012 7:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Oct 2012, at 20:51, meekerdb wrote: On 10/24/2012 7:56 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, October 24, 2012 12:21:23 AM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/23/2012 6:33 PM, Max Gron wrote: On

Re: Re: Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Richard Ruquist
Roger, Your Leibniz monads are not extended, but the monads of string theory are extended yet have most of the important properties of inextension. Richard On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 9:08 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Richard Ruquist Thank you, but monads are not extended in

Re: Code length = probability distribution

2012-10-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Oct 2012, at 19:49, meekerdb wrote: On 10/25/2012 8:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Brent wrote: If you're going to explain purpose, meaning, qualia, thoughts,...you need to start from something simpler that does not assume those things. Bruno proposes to explain matter as well,

Topological order: from long-range entangled quantum matter to an unification of light and electrons

2012-10-26 Thread Richard Ruquist
For Hans, Topological order: from long-range entangled quantum matter to an unification of light and electrons Xiao-Gang Wen (Submitted on 4 Oct 2012) In primary school, we were told that there are four states of matter: solid, liquid, gas, and plasma. In college, we learned that there are much

Re: What If A Zombie Is What You Need?

2012-10-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Oct 2012, at 19:54, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/25/2012 12:05 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 25 Oct 2012, at 03:59, Craig Weinberg wrote: If we turn the Fading Qualia argument around, what we get is a world in which Comp is true and it is impossible to simulate cellular activity

Re: I believe that comp's requirement is one of as if ratherthanis

2012-10-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Oct 2012, at 21:17, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, October 25, 2012 2:33:58 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 6:20 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: Accumulating wealth is hardly an achievement of human progress. Wealth and human progress are

Re: Dennett and others on qualia

2012-10-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Oct 2012, at 22:58, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: You can identify a particular qualia with certain computational states of algorithms. All you need to do to (in principle) decide if a system is experiencing the color red is to see if the right algorithm is being executed. That's right.

Re: Wow! Re: Re: Strings are not in space-time, they are on space-time

2012-10-26 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/26/2012 8:15 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King Wow ! This connects up with what I have been speculating, namely that comp or at least some sort of calculation, can, if not recreate the brainmind, at least simulate what it does. I need to study more about your theory. Hi Roger,

Re: A mirror of the universe.

2012-10-26 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/26/2012 8:44 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Dear Bruno and Alberto, I agree some what with both of you. As to the idea of a genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative programs, I think that anticipation is the analogue of inertia for computations, as Mach saw inertia. It is a relation

Re: Dennett and others on qualia

2012-10-26 Thread meekerdb
On 10/26/2012 4:51 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi meekerdb Quanta do exist, and can be measured, but by definition they can only be experienced as qualia, (another word for experience) which can't be measured. Well that's the point isn't it. Quanta are what can be shared, and they can be shared

Re: Even more compact dimensions Re: Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread meekerdb
On 10/26/2012 5:00 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Brent, What happens -- or is it even possible -- to collapse the dimensions down to one (which I conjecture might be time), or zero (Platonia or mind). I'm not sure what you mean by 'collapse'. Do you mean, Is is possible to invent a theory

Re: comp and functionalism

2012-10-26 Thread meekerdb
On 10/26/2012 5:07 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stathis Papaioannou It is suggested that computers can possibly simulate the mind at least functionally, perhaps it has already been done: At least they've already simulated the mind of mathematicians. :-) ... this is pure math-fun,

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread meekerdb
On 10/26/2012 5:08 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote: No Roger, In string theory dimensions are conserved but can undergo extreme modification such as in compactification where formerly orthogonal dimensions become embedded in 3D space in spite of what Brent thinks. Do you have a reference that

Re: What If A Zombie Is What You Need?

2012-10-26 Thread meekerdb
On 10/26/2012 5:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 25 Oct 2012, at 07:10, meekerdb wrote: On 10/24/2012 9:23 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: Or what if we don't care? We don't care about slaughtering cattle, which are pretty smart as computers go. We manage not to think about starving

Re: Strings are not in space-time, they are on space-time

2012-10-26 Thread meekerdb
On 10/26/2012 6:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Well, in defense of Craig, or of the devil, this has not been proved. The problem occurs, or at least is easy to prove only when we make the digital assumption. This entails a truncation of the subject, local and relative (its mind code) which by the

Re: Dennett and others on qualia

2012-10-26 Thread meekerdb
On 10/26/2012 6:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 25 Oct 2012, at 18:57, meekerdb wrote: Good points. The contrast is usually qualia-v-quanta. I think color can be communicated and we have an RGB language for doing so that makes it more quanta than qualia. So extending your point to

Re: Code length = probability distribution

2012-10-26 Thread meekerdb
On 10/26/2012 6:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Oh yes, I remember that you did agree once with the 323 principle, but I forget what is your problem with the movie-graph/step-8, then. If you find the time, I am please if you can elaborate. I think Russell too is not yet entirely convinced. What

Re: Interactions between mind and brain

2012-10-26 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/25/2012 10:31 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Oct 2012, at 20:29, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/24/2012 10:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Oct 2012, at 06:03, Stephen P. King wrote: What difference does what they refer to matter? Eventually there has to be some physical process or

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Richard Ruquist
Yes http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Calabi-Yau_manifold#Calabi-Yau_manifolds_in_string_theory On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 3:01 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 10/26/2012 5:08 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote: No Roger, In string theory dimensions are conserved but can undergo extreme

Re: comp and functionalism

2012-10-26 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/26/2012 3:00 PM, meekerdb wrote: ot so much fun for the mathematics journal that accepted one of these for publication a couple of months ago. http://thatsmathematics.com/blog/archives/102 Turing test anyone? Not a Turing test; simply a demonstration of the Peter Principle. --

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/26/2012 4:31 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: Yes http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Calabi-Yau_manifold#Calabi-Yau_manifolds_in_string_theory Hi Richard, Could you cut and paste the specific description that answers Brent's question? On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 3:01 PM, meekerdb

Re: Re: Re: Solipsism = 1p

2012-10-26 Thread John Mikes
Stathis: IMO you left out one difference in equating computer and human: the programmed comp. cannot exceed its hardwre - given content while (SOMEHOW???) a human mind receives additional information from parts 'unknown' (see the steps forward in cultural history of the sciences?) - accordingly a

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread meekerdb
On 10/26/2012 1:31 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: Yes http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Calabi-Yau_manifold#Calabi-Yau_manifolds_in_string_theory A search on embed turns up nothing about embedding in 3-space. Brent On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 3:01 PM, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: On

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Richard Ruquist
The requested excerpt from http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Calabi-Yau_manifold#Calabi-Yau_manifolds_in_string_theory: Calabi-Yau manifolds in string theory Superstring theory is a unified theory for all the forces of nature including quantum gravity. In superstring theory, the fundamental

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Richard Ruquist
On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: The requested excerpt from http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Calabi-Yau_manifold#Calabi-Yau_manifolds_in_string_theory: Calabi-Yau manifolds in string theory Superstring theory is a unified theory for all the forces

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Stephen P. King
Dear Richard, From the quote below: it is expected that the 10-dimensional space-time of string theory is locally the product M4×X of a 4-dimensional Minkowski space M3,1 with a 6-dimensional space X. This local product operation, represented by the 'x' is the act of adding two

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Stephen P. King
Dear Richard, You wrote: the picture of the Compact Manifolds as a periodic structure of 6d particles in 3D space. I agree that a crude reading of 10d string theory is consistent with this picture. This picture is built for use in quantum field theories where particles are excitations of

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Richard Ruquist
No one said they were free floating On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 7:55 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote: Dear Richard, From the quote below: it is expected that the 10-dimensional space-time of string theory is locally the product M4×X of a 4-dimensional Minkowski space M3,1

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread meekerdb
On 10/26/2012 4:55 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: Dear Richard, From the quote below: it is expected that the 10-dimensional space-time of string theory is locally the product M4×X of a 4-dimensional Minkowski space M3,1 with a 6-dimensional space X. This local product operation,

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Stephen P. King
Hi Richard, OK, then where are we in disagreement? On 10/26/2012 8:05 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: No one said they were free floating On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 7:55 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote: Dear Richard, From the quote below: it is expected that the

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/26/2012 8:33 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 10/26/2012 4:55 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: Dear Richard, From the quote below: it is expected that the 10-dimensional space-time of string theory is locally the product M4×X of a 4-dimensional Minkowski space M3,1 with a 6-dimensional space X.

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Richard Ruquist
Well, I admit that you said that. I said they had a rather crystalline structure. And you repeated my remark. If you think they are free floating, then we are in disagreement. Richard On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 9:21 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote: Hi Richard, OK, then where

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/26/2012 9:27 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: Well, I admit that you said that. I said they had a rather crystalline structure. And you repeated my remark. If you think they are free floating, then we are in disagreement. Richard Hi Richard, They cannot be free floating. On that we

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread meekerdb
On 10/26/2012 7:35 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/26/2012 9:27 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: Well, I admit that you said that. I said they had a rather crystalline structure. And you repeated my remark. If you think they are free floating, then we are in disagreement. Richard Hi Richard,

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Craig Weinberg
All of it ultimately has to be grounded in ordinary conscious experience. Otherwise we have an infinite regress of invisible homunculi translating crystalline manifolds in compactified space into ordinary experiences. At what point does it become necessary for vibrating topological constructs

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/26/2012 11:36 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: All of it ultimately has to be grounded in ordinary conscious experience. Otherwise we have an infinite regress of invisible homunculi translating crystalline manifolds in compactified space into ordinary experiences. At what point does it become

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Richard Ruquist
Stephan, I agree that All of this discussion is below the level of conscious self-awareness, but prefer to think of raw perception as distinguishing what can be from what cannot be, as for example in constructor theory. In my model conscious awareness is an arithmetic emergent due to the

Re: Against Mechanism

2012-10-26 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: we know that nobody can answer the question why do I feel to be the one in Washington and not in Moscow. Because your eyes are sending signals to your brain of the White House and not of the Kremlin, and there is nothing more

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/26/2012 10:36 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 10/26/2012 7:35 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/26/2012 9:27 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: Well, I admit that you said that. I said they had a rather crystalline structure. And you repeated my remark. If you think they are free floating, then we are in

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread meekerdb
On 10/26/2012 9:55 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/26/2012 10:36 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 10/26/2012 7:35 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/26/2012 9:27 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: Well, I admit that you said that. I said they had a rather crystalline structure. And you repeated my remark. If

Re: Compact dimensions and orthogonality

2012-10-26 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/27/2012 12:07 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote: Stephen, I agree that All of this discussion is below the level of conscious self-awareness, but prefer to think of raw perception as distinguishing what can be from what cannot be, as for example in constructor theory. In my model conscious