Re: Re: Re: My embarassing misunderstanding of the intelligence ofcomputers

2012-11-16 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Craig Weinberg I agree with what you say, but there's no need to humanize the coffee filters nor humanize intelligence or consciousness. I'm not talking here about IQ. My point (speaking here as Leibniz) is that nature down to the lowliest beings (a grain of sand) has intelligence of some

Re: Re: Monads and the Diophantine equantions.

2012-11-16 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King Monads are as you say, but only potentially. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 11/16/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-15,

Re: Re: Re: 14 billion years ago there was a huge explosion

2012-11-16 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Russell Standish OK. So something happened and the physical universe expanded out of that. Or there were even a series of such explosions, which is Penrose's contention. Fine, as long as they explain the facts. The more interesting question is how the physical universe could have been

Re: Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-16 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King How is the agreement of many minds known if they are all solipsists ? [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 11/16/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver:

Re: Re: (mathematical) solipsism

2012-11-16 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King Mind has no properties other than being nonphysical, so no problem. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 11/16/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list

Re: Re: Re: 14 billion years ago there was a huge explosion

2012-11-16 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen, Hogan appears to be a total skeptic. What can I say ? [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 11/16/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Roger Clough Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-15,

Re: Re: Re: My embarassing misunderstanding of the intelligence ofcomputers

2012-11-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, November 16, 2012 5:55:41 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg I agree with what you say, but there's no need to humanize the coffee filters nor humanize intelligence or consciousness. I'm not talking here about IQ. My point (speaking here as Leibniz) is that

Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-16 Thread Stephen P. King
On 11/16/2012 6:44 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King How is the agreement of many minds known if they are all solipsists ? Hi Roger, The agreement is known by the appearance of a common world. It is the manifestation of their mutual truth. [Roger Clough],

Re: Re: Re: Re: My embarassing misunderstanding of the intelligenceofcomputers

2012-11-16 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Craig Weinberg When I say that all bodies live, I failed to state that they must be monads, which means that that they must be of one part. I don't think mannekins would qualify, nor cartoons, which aren't even bodies. Of one part I think means that there is something holding the thing

Re: Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-16 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King But how could one know if the others are telling the truth ? The surest test could only be a Turing Test. Plus I have another difficulty with solipsim. If perception must proceed existence, then one could never be stabbed in the back. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]

Re: Against Mechanism

2012-11-16 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 15 Nov 2012, at 16:27, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: If he's a devout Muslim he believes he will go to heaven with 77 virgins when he pushes that button, but as I said I really don't care what he believes will happen, I care about what

Re: the God hypothesis

2012-11-16 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 15 Nov 2012, at 16:52, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Richard Ruquist and Bruno, There is (infinite) regress in physical nature, but not in mind, because mind is non-existent (not created). There are a lot of infinite regress in arithmetic. I am not sure how you related this with created

Re: Monads and the Diophantine equantions.

2012-11-16 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 15 Nov 2012, at 17:06, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal No connection, I was just looking at the meaning of the Diophantine equations. Their meanings as categories possibly. Ie, can numbers be categorized by the D eqns they fit ? If some numbers fit these equations , do they have some

Re: In the beginning were the numbers

2012-11-16 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 15 Nov 2012, at 17:18, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King and Bruno, Perhaps these problems below fade away if you think of numbers in this way: In the beginning were the numbers and the numbers were with Mind and the numbers were Mind. I can accept this a short poetical sum up. But

Re: Emergence of Properties

2012-11-16 Thread Stephen P. King
On 11/16/2012 8:48 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King But how could one know if the others are telling the truth ? Umm, I only assume the barest appearance of interactions. All of this is fully consistent with Leibniz' monadology. Monads have no windows and do not exchange

Re: Re: Re: Re: My embarassing misunderstanding of the intelligenceofcomputers

2012-11-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, November 16, 2012 8:42:24 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg When I say that all bodies live, I failed to state that they must be monads, which means that that they must be of one part. I don't think mannekins would qualify, nor cartoons, which aren't even

Re: Against Mechanism

2012-11-16 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Yes, the question is about a prediction. And my question is why is the question about prediction rather than remembering which would make far more sense. Using prediction to establish a chain of custody for your personal

Re: Re: Re: 14 billion years ago there was a huge explosion

2012-11-16 Thread Russell Standish
On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 05:40:10AM -0600, Roger Clough wrote: The more interesting question is how the physical universe could have been created out of the nonphysical, which I take to be intelligence. There are many accounts of how something (the universe) could have arisen from nothing

Re: 14 billion years ago there was a huge explosion

2012-11-16 Thread Stephen Lin
Reminds me of something I heard once The best joke in the universe is that science will win every battle but religion won the war before it even began. On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 7:55 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.netwrote: On 11/15/2012 7:42 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 11/15/2012 5:07 PM,