Re: Is your elbow conscious?

2019-05-21 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 9:02 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > In science, we don’t claim truth, especially on the fundamental reality. > We only try theories, like plausibly Nature itself, through selection, > mutation, etc. > A good sound instrumentalist position. Instrumentalism is often

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-19 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 6:00 PM Russell Standish wrote: > On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 05:11:20PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 4:45 PM Russell Standish > wrote: > > > > > > > > That remains to be proved. Church-Turing is ab

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-19 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 4:45 PM Russell Standish wrote: > On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 04:12:00PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 10:27 AM Russell Standish > > > wrote: > > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 10:47:36PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote:

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-19 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 10:27 AM Russell Standish wrote: > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 10:47:36PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 10:14 PM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > > > On 16 May 2019, at 03:27, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > > >

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-17 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 10:14 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 16 May 2019, at 03:27, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 12:59 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > The first order theory of the real numbers does not require arithmetical >> realism, but the same theory

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-17 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:15 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 15 May 2019, at 13:18, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 5:50 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 10 May 2019, at 15:16, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> >> On Fri, May 10, 2019 a

Re: How do AI fanboys explain telepathy and precognition ?

2019-05-17 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 5:45 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > See Donald Hoffman research. Evolution filters out truth. We don't live in > a "physical" world. We live in an evolutionary world. The world of qualia > we see around us is an

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-17 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:56 PM Telmo Menezes wrote: > On Sat, May 11, 2019, at 00:02, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 11:42 PM Jason Resch wrote: > > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 8:16 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > > Then with mechanism, we get the many-h

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-15 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 2:18 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 14 May 2019, at 01:27, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 9:19 AM Telmo Menezes > wrote: > >> On Mon, May 13, 2019, at 22:36, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: >> >> On 5/13/

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-15 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 12:59 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 11 May 2019, at 01:02, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 11:42 PM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 8:16 AM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Then with me

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-15 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 4:53 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 14 May 2019, at 00:34, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > That may well be the case, but I fail to see the relevance of such an > observation. My consciousness supervenes on my brain as it is now — > > > With mechanism, and

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-15 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 5:50 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 10 May 2019, at 15:16, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 8:51 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> That is impossible. The first person plural is when two persons enter the >> ann

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-14 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 2:49 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 6:06 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 1:50 AM Jason Resch wrote: >> > >>> Most scientists would say quarks are real, because they are part of >>> succes

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-14 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 2:04 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 9:34 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 12:07 PM Jason Resch >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Do you not think counterfactuals are useful in evaluating t

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-14 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 2:49 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 6:06 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 1:50 AM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> >>> But then what is arithmetical truth? We have no label for it. It cannot &

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-13 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 12:07 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 5:34 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 6:08 AM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 11:30 PM Bruce Kellett < >>> bhkell...@optusnet

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-13 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 9:55 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > On 5/13/2019 4:18 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > 3) Or maybe it's "what the brain does", as many physicalists like to say. > My body as mass, because the atoms that make up my body amount

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-13 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 9:19 AM Telmo Menezes wrote: > On Mon, May 13, 2019, at 22:36, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: > > On 5/13/2019 6:11 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > Physicalism fails to account for consciousness. This is the worst possible > failure I can imagine, given that

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-13 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 1:50 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 7:45 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> >> I am not sure I have the time to delve into Muller's paper to find out >> his reasons. He is clearly misguided, because there are many viable >&

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-13 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 6:08 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 11:30 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> From: Jason Resch >> >> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 12:26 AM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> From: Jason Resch >>> >

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-13 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 5:42 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 1:20 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 3:49 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 11:20 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> >>>

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-13 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 3:49 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 11:20 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 2:00 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:52 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> &

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-12 Thread Bruce Kellett
From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 12:26 AM Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote: From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> To clarify, let me enumerate stages of the argument such that we can be

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-12 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 2:00 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:52 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 12:40 PM Jason Resch >> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:04 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>>

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-12 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 12:40 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:04 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> From: Jason Resch >> >> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 6:02 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 11:42 PM Jason Resc

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-12 Thread Bruce Kellett
From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 6:02 PM Bruce Kellett <mailto:bhkellet...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 11:42 PM Jason Resch mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Fri, May 10, 2019 at

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-10 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 11:42 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 8:16 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> >> Then with mechanism, we get the many-histories from a simple fact to >>> prove: all computations are realised in all models of arithmetic.

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-10 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 8:51 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 7 May 2019, at 01:04, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 7:02 AM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:41 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < >> everything-list@googlegroups.com&

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-09 Thread Bruce Kellett
From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 7:47 PM Bruce Kellett <mailto:bhkellet...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 10:18 AM Jason Resch mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Thu, May 9, 2019 at

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-09 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 10:54 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > On 5/9/2019 5:18 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > That all subjectively indistinguishable computations going through > > that state are a possibility means the consciousness cannot

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-09 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 10:18 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 7:02 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 9:36 AM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> >>> On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 3:09 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < &

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

2019-05-09 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 9:36 AM Jason Resch wrote: > > On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 3:09 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> >> Would it make a difference if they compute the same function? >> > > Not from the perspective of the function. If the

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-06 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 7:02 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:41 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> >> >> I am not following where this point is going. Do you dispute the idea > that you could put a finite program in your

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-06 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 4:41 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 1:19 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> >> This is essentially the point that both Turing and Goedel made when they >> pointed out that human consciousness is not Turing emulable -- it

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

2019-05-06 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:59 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > On 5/5/2019 10:30 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 10:51 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > On 5/5/2019 7:30 PM,

Re: CMBR

2019-03-17 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 6:36 AM wrote: > On Sunday, March 17, 2019 at 12:12:58 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> On 3/17/2019 4:50 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> On Sunday, March 17, 2019 at 3:05:14 AM UTC-6, agrays...@gmail.com >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, March 17, 2019 at 2:49:43 AM

Re: CMBR

2019-03-17 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 7:38 PM wrote: > > > On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 8:27:58 PM UTC-6, agrays...@gmail.com > wrote: >> >> IIUC, the combined mass of an electron and proton is larger than the >> hydrogen atom they form at recombination time. Thus, I would expect a very >> narrow pulse of

Re: What happens to old entanglements?

2019-03-13 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 10:50 AM Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: > An entanglement can swap or a bipartite entanglement can enter into an > entanglement with another state. So the entangled state c(|+>_1|->_2 + > |->_1|+>_2) can couple with the system in a

Re: Black holes and the information paradox

2019-03-11 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 12:43 PM John Clark wrote: > On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 8:42 PM Lawrence Crowell < > goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > all the radiation emitted is entangled with the black hole, which would >> then mean the entanglement entropy increases beyond the Bekenstein

Re: Are there real numbers that cannot be defined?

2019-03-04 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 4:55 PM Russell Standish wrote: > On Tue, Mar 05, 2019 at 02:22:05PM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 2:03 PM Russell Standish > wrote: > > > > You cannot represent n as a finite string for an arbitrary real > nu

Re: Are there real numbers that cannot be defined?

2019-03-04 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 2:03 PM Russell Standish wrote: > On Tue, Mar 05, 2019 at 12:06:00PM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > > > My problem with your idea that the function: "(n-1)+1" is a valid > computational > > algorithm for n is that it make

Re: Are there real numbers that cannot be defined?

2019-03-04 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 11:50 AM Russell Standish wrote: > On Tue, Mar 05, 2019 at 10:42:00AM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 10:25 AM Russell Standish > wrote: > > > > On Mon, Mar 04, 2019 at 05:31:00PM -0500, John Clark wrote: > >

Re: Are there real numbers that cannot be defined?

2019-03-04 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 10:25 AM Russell Standish wrote: > On Mon, Mar 04, 2019 at 05:31:00PM -0500, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 11:04 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > > > > >> I don't follow you. If the 8000th BB number is unknowable > then it is > > certainly

Re: Are there real numbers that cannot be defined?

2019-03-03 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 9:13 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 8:58 AM Brent Meeker wrote: > >> On 3/3/2019 1:37 PM, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Sun, Mar 3, 2019 at 2:52 PM Philip Thrift >> wrote: >> >> *> If a program "r

Re: Are there real numbers that cannot be defined?

2019-03-03 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 8:58 AM Brent Meeker wrote: > On 3/3/2019 1:37 PM, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, Mar 3, 2019 at 2:52 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > *> If a program "represents" a real number (e.g. in the spigot sense), >> then that could be said to "define" it.* > > > But for most Real

Re: Questions about the Equivalence Principle (EP) and GR

2019-02-22 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 3:08 PM wrote: > On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 8:13:21 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >> >> On 2/22/2019 6:04 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 4:55:41 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2/22/2019 2:40 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >>>

Re: What is comparable and incomparable between casually disconnected universes?

2019-01-13 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 11:14 AM Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 4:51:24 PM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 9:29 AM Lawrence Crowell < >> goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 7:18:21

Re: What is comparable and incomparable between casually disconnected universes?

2019-01-11 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 9:29 AM Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 7:18:21 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> On 1/10/2019 4:21 PM, John Clark wrote: >> >> *So even Feynman knew that there was no theoretical value for the FSC, >>> alpha.* >>>

Re: Interference of probability waves

2019-01-11 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 8:01 AM wrote: > On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 7:46:19 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> On 1/11/2019 2:02 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> If probability values are always positive and between 0 and 1, how does >> one get destructive interference, or constructive

Re: What is comparable and incomparable between casually disconnected universes?

2019-01-10 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 12:18 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > On 1/10/2019 4:21 PM, John Clark wrote: > > *So even Feynman knew that there was no theoretical value for the FSC, >> alpha.* >> > > No, he knew very well there was a theory that could come up with a value > because his own Feynman Diagrams

Re: What is comparable and incomparable between casually disconnected universes?

2019-01-09 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 2:30 PM John Clark wrote: > On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 9:49 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > > *There is no theoretical value".* >> > > The measure value is 137.035999139, the value obtained from 12,672 Feynman > Diagrams is 137.03

Re: What is comparable and incomparable between casually disconnected universes?

2019-01-09 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 1:36 PM John Clark wrote: > On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 7:49 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > >>The following 2012 article in Physical Review letters describes a QED >>> calculation involving 12,672 tenth order Feynman diagrams used to >>>

Re: What is comparable and incomparable between casually disconnected universes?

2019-01-09 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:38 AM John Clark wrote: > On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 5:01 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > *> Rubbish. The fine structure constant is not computable by Feynman >> diagrams. What might be confusing you is that QED calculations of >> physically measu

Re: What is comparable and incomparable between casually disconnected universes?

2019-01-09 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 7:53 AM John Clark wrote: > On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 1:58 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > >> Is the Fine Structure Constant a rational number? Is it a algebraic >>> number? Is it a transcendental number? Nobody knows. >> >> >> >> *> Is it computable at least?* > > > Because

Re: Coherent states of a superposition

2019-01-06 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 9:42 AM wrote: > On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 2:46:41 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com > wrote: >> >> On Thursday, December 6, 2018 at 5:46:13 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com >> wrote: >>> >>> On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 10:13:57 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com >>> wrote:

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2019-01-05 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 7:50 PM wrote: > On Saturday, January 5, 2019 at 6:49:43 AM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> On 1/4/2019 9:20 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> *Still a little murky. Does coordinate time ever differ from proper time? >> TIA, AG * >> >> >> Of course. That's like asking does

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2019-01-04 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 1:41 AM John Clark wrote: > On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 9:08 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > *> In JC's formula: d^2 = r^2 - t^2* [...] >> > > That's not my formula, I used d^2 = r^2 - (ct)^2 , that way the units > always come out right. >

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2019-01-03 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 1:03 PM wrote: > On Thursday, January 3, 2019 at 8:58:14 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:00 PM John Clark wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 5:50 PM Brent Meeker wrote: >>> >>> *> That's like saying if two people drove different cars from L.A. to

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2019-01-03 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 7:06 AM John Clark wrote: > On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 3:58 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > >> *> The 't' in your formula above is the coordinate time, not the proper >> time. * >> > > What the hell are you talking about? If I t

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2019-01-03 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:00 PM John Clark wrote: > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 5:50 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > *> That's like saying if two people drove different cars from L.A. to New >> York and their odometers registered different distances then one of the >> odometers must have measured miles

Re: CMBR and Horizon Problem

2018-12-28 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 12:01 PM wrote: > On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 12:28:58 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 11:17 AM John Clark wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 4:53 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> >>&g

Re: CMBR and Horizon Problem

2018-12-28 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 11:17 AM John Clark wrote: > On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 4:53 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > >> If the creation of the inflaton required conditions that existed when >>> the universe was 10^-44 seconds old and inflation had decayed away when it

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-28 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 9:50 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 4:09 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> From: Jason Resch >> >> >> Clock desycnhronization is a different phenomenon and has a different >> cause and explanation than time di

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-28 Thread Bruce Kellett
From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> Clock desycnhronization is a different phenomenon and has a different cause and explanation than time dilation. Because of the relativity of simultaneity in SR, clock synchronization is not a global phenomenon -- it depends on the way in

Re: CMBR and Horizon Problem

2018-12-28 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 2:06 AM John Clark wrote: > On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 5:14 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > > Why has the inflation not been seen at LHC? >>>> >>> >>> >> The LHC just went offline, when it comes back online after 2 years &

Re: CMBR and Horizon Problem

2018-12-28 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 10:52 AM John Clark wrote: > On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 4:35 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > > *You seem to be convinced by inflation theory. * >> > > No I'm just playing devil's advocate. I'm not convinced it's right I'm > just not convinc

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-28 Thread Bruce Kellett
From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 4:24 PM Bruce Kellett <mailto:bhkellet...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 4:59 AM Jason Resch mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 1

Re: CMBR and Horizon Problem

2018-12-24 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 8:44 AM wrote: > On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 9:35:05 PM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 4:43 AM John Clark wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 5:38 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> >>> *>

Re: CMBR and Horizon Problem

2018-12-24 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 4:43 AM John Clark wrote: > On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 5:38 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > *> Flatness is explained if the unknown parameter k in the FRW solution is >> set to zero. The the universe is always flat, no need to fine tune. Setting >&

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-24 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 4:59 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 12:30 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 4:03 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:06 PM Brent Meeker >>> wrote: >>&g

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-23 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 4:03 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:06 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> On 12/23/2018 7:17 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> > >> > How can this be? The rocket is a rigid structure, the front and rear >> > clocks accelerate at the same rate. >> >> First, there

Re: CMBR and Horizon Problem

2018-12-23 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 4:02 PM wrote: > On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 4:47:02 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 3:33 PM wrote: >> >>> On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 4:22:24 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com >>> wrote: On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 3:50:33 AM UTC,

Re: "No black-hole singularities" in an undated loop-quantum-gravity theory

2018-12-23 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 3:45 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 9:33 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > >> On 12/22/2018 12:04 PM, Philip Thrift wrote >> >> >> https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-12/lsu-be122018.php >> >> Theoretical physicists developed a theory called loop quantum

Re: CMBR and Horizon Problem

2018-12-23 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 3:33 PM wrote: > On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 4:22:24 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 3:50:33 AM UTC, Brent wrote: >>> >>> On 12/23/2018 4:47 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> *If by "flat", you mean mathematically flat,

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-23 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 2:18 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 8:20 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 12:06 PM Jason Resch >> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 7:51 PM Brent Meeker >>> wrote: >>>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-23 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 12:06 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 7:51 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> That's what I thought you wanted to conclude. But it doesn't follow. >> The specious present is just a mathematical construct and has no physical >> significance. It says no more

Re: CMBR and Horizon Problem

2018-12-23 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 1:38 AM John Clark wrote: > On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 11:32 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > *> The point is that inflation only solves the problem given certain >> initial conditions. We have no independent knowledge of those initial >> conditions

Re: CMBR and Horizon Problem

2018-12-22 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 3:05 PM John Clark wrote: > On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 10:04 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > >>Regardless of how non-uniform the entire early universe may have been >>> if you kept looking at smaller and smaller volumes you'd eventually find a >&

Re: CMBR and Horizon Problem

2018-12-22 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 1:17 PM John Clark wrote: > On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 6:46 AM wrote: > > *> If the temperature was non uniform when the BB occurred, if it >> occurred, why would a sudden increase in its volume, aka inflation, erase >> or wash out those non uniformities?* >> > > Regardless

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-22 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:29 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 10:01 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> That's words. How shall they determine whether event X in distant galaxy >> Y is simultaneous with their clock reading Z? Is their "direction through >> spacetime" constant

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-22 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 9:08 AM Brent Meeker wrote: > On 12/21/2018 10:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > ... > > With Mechanism, physics has to be the same for all “observers” aka > universal machines, and indeed physics has to be independent of the initial > theory (phi_independent, or “machine

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-20 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 4:59 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 3:44 PM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:28 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> >>> I have no evidence that they exist now, since all I am currently aware &g

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-20 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 3:44 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:28 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> >> I have no evidence that they exist now, since all I am currently aware of >> is the record of their past existence as it is present to me now. The >&

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-20 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 1:07 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:11 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:49 AM Jason Resch >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Do you believe other locations in space exist? >>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-20 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 1:03 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:05 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:45 AM Jason Resch >> wrote: >> >>> 1. It is a prediction of eternal inflation and string theory. >>> >

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-20 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:49 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 3:30 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:38 AM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 5:05 AM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> >>>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-20 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:45 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 3:26 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:35 AM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 5:01 AM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> >>>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-20 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:07 AM Philip Thrift wrote: > On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 3:40:53 PM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 3:13 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> Is not 333’s oddness timeless? >> >> >> Category error. >> >> > > On category error: > > I've never

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-20 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:40 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 3:13 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 19 Dec 2018, at 23:36, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> > > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:33 AM Jason Resch wrote: >> >> On Wed, Dec 19

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-20 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 3:13 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 19 Dec 2018, at 23:36, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:33 AM Jason Resch wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:18 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> From: Jason Resch >>&

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-20 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:46 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 19 Dec 2018, at 23:33, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 4:21 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 19 Dec 2018, at 12:59, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> >> Dynamics is the study of matter

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-20 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:38 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 5:05 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:21 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:19 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> >>&g

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-20 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:35 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 5:01 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:18 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:34 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> &g

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-20 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:44 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:25 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:57 AM Jason Resch >> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:19 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-20 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:21 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:19 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> >>> If you include all events as as present moments, and say that they all >>> exist, then how is this different from the block-time view (which says

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-20 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:18 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:34 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 4:21 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 19 Dec 2018, at 12:59, Bruce Kellett wrote: >>> >>> Dynamics is th

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-20 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:12 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:39 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:47 AM Brent Meeker >> wrote: >> >>> On 12/18/2018 6:34 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >>> >>> That wasn't

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-19 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:57 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:19 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:09 AM Jason Resch >> wrote: >> >>> >>> If you include all events as as present moments, and say that they a

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-19 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:47 AM Brent Meeker wrote: > On 12/18/2018 6:34 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > That wasn't my question. Do you believe your experience rules out the > block universe? > > If you mean a pre-determined universe, I think that is ruled out by > quantum randomness. But I don't

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

2018-12-19 Thread Bruce Kellett
On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 10:09 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:53 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 9:38 AM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:36 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> >>>

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