Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Oct 2012, at 02:56, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 21 Oct 2012, at 18:42, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Hi John, On 20 Oct 2012, at 23:16, John Mikes

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Oct 2012, at 03:27, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:04 AM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote I think you are missing something. It is a problem that I noticed after watching the movie

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-25 Thread Jason Resch
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:15 AM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: You will be placed into a room with an exact clone of yourself and you will be given a gun. If you shoot your clone you can leave that room and

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-25 Thread John Clark
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: A identical twin is a clone, you're talking about a exact duplicate and I would shoot him. I was given a gun and I was forced to make a very emotional decision and my duplicate was not, so I have intense memories that he

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-24 Thread Jason Resch
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 21 Oct 2012, at 18:42, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Hi John, On 20 Oct 2012, at 23:16, John Mikes wrote: Bruno, especially in my identification as

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-24 Thread Jason Resch
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:04 AM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote I think you are missing something. It is a problem that I noticed after watching the movie The Prestige In my opinion The Prestige is the best

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-24 Thread meekerdb
On 10/24/2012 6:27 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:04 AM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com wrote I think you are missing

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-24 Thread Jason Resch
On Oct 24, 2012, at 9:02 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 10/24/2012 6:27 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:04 AM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote I think you are missing

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-24 Thread meekerdb
On 10/24/2012 8:48 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Oct 24, 2012, at 9:02 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 10/24/2012 6:27 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:04 AM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-24 Thread Jason Resch
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:00 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 10/24/2012 8:48 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Oct 24, 2012, at 9:02 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 10/24/2012 6:27 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:04 AM, John Clark

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-23 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 22 Oct 2012, at 18:26, meekerdb wrote: On 10/22/2012 12:51 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/10/22 Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 12:46 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I stopped

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-22 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2012/10/22 Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 12:46 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I stopped reading after your proof of the existence of a new type of indeterminacy never seen before because

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-22 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 1:48 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: If there is a top-down effect of the mind on the atoms then there we would expect some scientific evidence of this. These words are a scientific evidence of this. The atoms of my brain are being manipulated from

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-22 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 21 Oct 2012, at 18:42, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Hi John, On 20 Oct 2012, at 23:16, John Mikes wrote: Bruno, especially in my identification as responding to relations. Now the Self? IT certainly refers to a more

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-22 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote I think you are missing something. It is a problem that I noticed after watching the movie The Prestige In my opinion The Prestige is the best movie made in the last 10 years, and this is one of those rare instances

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-22 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 21 Oct 2012, at 19:46, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I stopped reading after your proof of the existence of a new type of indeterminacy never seen before because the proof was in error, so there was no point in reading about things

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-22 Thread meekerdb
On 10/22/2012 12:51 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/10/22 Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 12:46 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-22 Thread Bruno Marchal
, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-21, 09:56:39 Subject: Re: Continuous Game of Life Hi John, On 20 Oct 2012, at 23:16, John Mikes wrote: Bruno, especially in my identification

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-21 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 5:51 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: The atoms in my brain don't have to know how to read Chinese. They only need to know how to be carbon, nitrogen, oxygen etc. atoms. The complex behaviour which is reading Chinese comes from the interaction of billions

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-21 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 21.10.2012 10:05 Stathis Papaioannou said the following: On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 5:51 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: ... I don't think that is true. The other way around makes just as much sense of not more: Reading Chinese is a simple behavior which drives the behavior

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Oct 2012, at 19:18, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, October 19, 2012 3:29:39 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 Oct 2012, at 17:04, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 10:16:52 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Oct 2012, at 18:56, Craig Weinberg wrote:

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Oct 2012, at 19:29, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I have no idea what that means, not a clue Probably for the same reason that you stop at step 3 in the UD Argument. Probably. I remember I stopped reading after your proof of the

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-17, 10:13:37 Subject: Re: Continuous Game of Life On 16 Oct 2012, at 18:37, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:40 PM, meekerdb wrote: If consciousness doesn't do anything then Evolution can't see it, so how and why did Evolution

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-21 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, October 21, 2012 4:06:16 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 5:51 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: The atoms in my brain don't have to know how to read Chinese. They only need to know how to be carbon, nitrogen, oxygen etc. atoms. The

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-21 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/21/2012 4:05 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 5:51 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: The atoms in my brain don't have to know how to read Chinese. They only need to know how to be carbon, nitrogen, oxygen etc. atoms. The complex behaviour which is

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-21 Thread Jason Resch
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Hi John, On 20 Oct 2012, at 23:16, John Mikes wrote: Bruno, especially in my identification as responding to relations. Now the Self? IT certainly refers to a more sophisticated level of thinking, more so than the

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-21 Thread Jason Resch
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 20 Oct 2012, at 19:29, John Clark wrote: Well I don't know about you but I don't think my consciousness was there before Evolution figured out how to make brains, I believe this because I can't seem to remember

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-21 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I stopped reading after your proof of the existence of a new type of indeterminacy never seen before because the proof was in error, so there was no point in reading about things built on top of that From your error you have

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-21 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2012/10/21 John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I stopped reading after your proof of the existence of a new type of indeterminacy never seen before because the proof was in error, so there was no point in reading about things built

Re: Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-21 Thread Roger Clough
Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-21, 09:56:39 Subject: Re: Continuous Game of Life Hi John, On 20 Oct 2012, at 23:16, John Mikes wrote: Bruno, especially in my identification as responding to relations. Now the Self? IT certainly refers to a more sophisticated level

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-21 Thread Jason Resch
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 12:46 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I stopped reading after your proof of the existence of a new type of indeterminacy never seen before because the proof was in error, so there was no point

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-21 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 1:55 AM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote: If there is a top-down effect of the mind on the atoms then there we would expect some scientific evidence of this. Evidence would constitute, for example, neurons firing when measurements of transmembrane

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Oct 2012, at 07:15, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Darwin does not need to be wrong. Consciousness role can be deeper, in the evolution/selection of the laws of physics from the coherent dreams (computations from the 1p

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, October 19, 2012 3:29:39 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 Oct 2012, at 17:04, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 10:16:52 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Oct 2012, at 18:56, Craig Weinberg wrote: Two men and two women live together. The woman has

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 20, 2012 1:01:51 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: So lets see, a giant junkyard magnet is a devastating logical argument but a junkyard car crusher is not. Explain to me how that

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-20 Thread John Clark
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I have no idea what that means, not a clue Probably for the same reason that you stop at step 3 in the UD Argument. Probably. I remember I stopped reading after your proof of the existence of a new type of indeterminacy never

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-20 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Oct 15, 2012, at 4:10 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: But since you misunderstand the first assumption you misunderstand the whole argument. Nope. You misunderstand my argument completely. Perhaps I do, but you specifically misunderstand that the argument

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 20, 2012 1:47:28 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Oct 15, 2012, at 4:10 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: But since you misunderstand the first assumption you misunderstand the whole argument. Nope. You misunderstand my argument

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-20 Thread John Mikes
-list Time: 2012-10-17, 10:13:37 Subject: Re: Continuous Game of Life On 16 Oct 2012, at 18:37, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:40 PM, meekerdb wrote: If consciousness doesn't do anything then Evolution can't see it, so how and why did Evolution produce it? The fact

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-20 Thread Stephen P. King
Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-17, 10:13:37 Subject: Re: Continuous Game of Life On 16 Oct 2012, at 18:37, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:40 PM, meekerdb wrote: If consciousness doesn't do anything then Evolution

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-19 Thread Bruno Marchal
. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-17, 10:13:37 Subject: Re: Continuous Game of Life On 16 Oct 2012, at 18:37, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:40 PM, meekerdb wrote: If consciousness doesn't do

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-19 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Oct 2012, at 17:04, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 10:16:52 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Oct 2012, at 18:56, Craig Weinberg wrote: Two men and two women live together. The woman has a child. 2+2=5 You mean two men + two women + a baby = five persons.

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-19 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: So lets see, a giant junkyard magnet is a devastating logical argument but a junkyard car crusher is not. Explain to me how that works. Because talking about how you want to kill me in an argument about computers

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-19 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Darwin does not need to be wrong. Consciousness role can be deeper, in the evolution/selection of the laws of physics from the coherent dreams (computations from the 1p view) in arithmetic. I have no idea what that

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 16 Oct 2012, at 18:37, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:40 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: If consciousness doesn't do anything then Evolution can't see it, so how and why did Evolution produce it? The fact that you have no answer to this means your ideas are

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 16 Oct 2012, at 18:56, Craig Weinberg wrote: Two men and two women live together. The woman has a child. 2+2=5 You mean two men + two women + a baby = five persons. You need the arithmetical 2+2=4, and 4+1 = 5, in your argument. Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-17 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 10:16:52 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Oct 2012, at 18:56, Craig Weinberg wrote: Two men and two women live together. The woman has a child. 2+2=5 You mean two men + two women + a baby = five persons. You need the arithmetical 2+2=4, and 4+1 = 5,

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 16 Oct 2012, at 21:55, John Mikes wrote: Bruno: corn starch is not a fluid (newtinian or not). It is a solid and when dissolved in water (or whatever?) it makes a N.N.fluid - My question about it's 'live, or not' status is: does it provide METABOLISM and REPAIR ? I doubt

Re: Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-17 Thread Roger Clough
Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-17, 10:13:37 Subject: Re: Continuous Game of Life On 16 Oct 2012, at 18:37, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:40 PM, meekerdb wrote: If consciousness doesn't do anything then Evolution can't see it, so how and why did Evolution

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-16 Thread John Clark
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: I know you don't have a proof of the Goldbach Conjecture. Well OK, I don't know that with absolute certainty, maybe you have a proof but are keeping it secret for some strange reason, but my knowledge is more than

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-16 Thread John Clark
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:40 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: If consciousness doesn't do anything then Evolution can't see it, so how and why did Evolution produce it? The fact that you have no answer to this means your ideas are fatally flawed. I don't see this as a *fatal*

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:13:55 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: I know you don't have a proof of the Goldbach Conjecture. Well OK, I don't know that with absolute certainty, maybe you have a

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-16 Thread meekerdb
On 10/16/2012 9:37 AM, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:40 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: If consciousness doesn't do anything then Evolution can't see it, so how and why did Evolution produce it? The fact that you have no answer to

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-16 Thread John Mikes
Bruno: corn starch is not a fluid (newtinian or not). It is a solid and when dissolved in water (or whatever?) it makes a N.N.fluid -My question about it's 'live, or not' status is: does it provide METABOLISM and REPAIR ? I doubt it. Do not misunderstand me, please: this is not my

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-15 Thread John Clark
On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: Since we know that our consciousness You don't know diddly squat about our consciousness, you only know about your consciousness; assuming of course that you are conscious, if not then you don't even know that. is exquisitely

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-15 Thread John Clark
On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: I think he [Chambers] goes wrong by assuming a priori that consciousness is functional, I've asked you this question dozens of times but you have never coherently answered it: If consciousness doesn't do anything

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 15, 2012 12:14:55 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: Since we know that our consciousness You don't know diddly squat about our consciousness, you only know about your consciousness; assuming of

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 15, 2012 12:38:30 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: I think he [Chambers] goes wrong by assuming a priori that consciousness is functional, I've asked you this question dozens of

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-15 Thread John Clark
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: You don't know diddly squat about our consciousness, you only know about your consciousness; assuming of course that you are conscious, if not then you don't even know that. If that were true, then you don't know

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 15, 2012 1:02:05 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: You don't know diddly squat about our consciousness, you only know about your consciousness; assuming of course that you are

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-15 Thread meekerdb
On 10/15/2012 9:38 AM, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com mailto:whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: I think he [Chambers] goes wrong by assuming a priori that consciousness is functional, I've asked you this question dozens of times

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-15 Thread meekerdb
On 10/15/2012 9:41 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: And a computer is exquisitely sensitive to particular voltages and not sensitive at all to other voltages that don't make the threshold. Let's see how computer fares under a giant junkyard magnet. Probably better than you will fare

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 15, 2012 2:42:33 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/15/2012 9:41 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: And a computer is exquisitely sensitive to particular voltages and not sensitive at all to other voltages that don't make the threshold. Let's see how computer fares under a

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-15 Thread meekerdb
On 10/15/2012 11:48 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Monday, October 15, 2012 2:42:33 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/15/2012 9:41 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: And a computer is exquisitely sensitive to particular voltages and not sensitive at all to other voltages that don't make

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 15, 2012 3:09:54 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/15/2012 11:48 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Monday, October 15, 2012 2:42:33 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/15/2012 9:41 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: And a computer is exquisitely sensitive to particular voltages and not

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-14 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, October 14, 2012 1:04:54 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: No, he does NOT assume this. He assumes the opposite: that consciousness is a property of the brain and CANNOT be reproduced by

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-13 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, October 12, 2012 10:23:57 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 12 Oct 2012, at 14:50, Craig Weinberg wrote: They are certainly cool looking and biomorphic. The question I have is, at what point do they begin to have experiences...or do you think that those blobs have

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-13 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, October 12, 2012 4:42:56 PM UTC-4, Russell Standish wrote: On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 05:50:11AM -0700, Craig Weinberg wrote: They are certainly cool looking and biomorphic. The question I have is, at what point do they begin to have experiences...or do you think that those

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-13 Thread Russell Standish
On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 02:11:59PM -0700, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, October 12, 2012 4:42:56 PM UTC-4, Russell Standish wrote: Assuming this system exhibits universality like the original GoL, and assuming COMP, then some patterns will exhibit consciousness. However, the

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-13 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 13, 2012 7:41:10 PM UTC-4, Russell Standish wrote: On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 02:11:59PM -0700, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, October 12, 2012 4:42:56 PM UTC-4, Russell Standish wrote: Assuming this system exhibits universality like the original GoL, and

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-13 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: I know you don't believe in COMP, but assuming COMP (I am open-minded on the topic), mass and chemical composition are irrelevant to consciousness. Chalmers' fading qualia argument purports to prove the

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-13 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: Since we know that our consciousness is exquisitely sensitive to particular masses of specific chemicals, yet relatively tolerant of other kinds of chemical changes, it suggests that we should strongly suspect that

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-13 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 13, 2012 7:54:44 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au javascript: wrote: I know you don't believe in COMP, but assuming COMP (I am open-minded on the topic), mass and chemical composition are irrelevant

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-13 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 13, 2012 8:05:26 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Since we know that our consciousness is exquisitely sensitive to particular masses of specific chemicals, yet relatively tolerant

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-13 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: Fading qualia is the only argument of Chalmers' that I disagree with. It's a natural mistake to make, but I think he goes wrong by assuming a priori that consciousness is functional, i.e. that personal consciousness

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-13 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 13, 2012 9:05:58 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Fading qualia is the only argument of Chalmers' that I disagree with. It's a natural mistake to make, but I think he goes wrong by

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-13 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: No, he does NOT assume this. He assumes the opposite: that consciousness is a property of the brain and CANNOT be reproduced by reproducing the behaviour in another substrate. I'm not talking about what the

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Oct 2012, at 23:47, Russell Standish wrote: That's serious cool! I love the comment posted Stephen Wolfram is very angry! They do discrete time (Euler integration), but one could easily make it continuous by replacing it with a Runge-Kutta integration scheme. Thanks for posting this.

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-12 Thread Craig Weinberg
They are certainly cool looking and biomorphic. The question I have is, at what point do they begin to have experiences...or do you think that those blobs have experiences already? Would it give them more of a human experience if an oscillating smiley-face/frowny-face algorithm were added

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 12 Oct 2012, at 14:50, Craig Weinberg wrote: They are certainly cool looking and biomorphic. The question I have is, at what point do they begin to have experiences...or do you think that those blobs have experiences already? Would it give them more of a human experience if an

Re: Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-12 Thread Roger Clough
10/12/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-12, 10:23:52 Subject: Re: Continuous Game of Life On 12 Oct 2012, at 14:50, Craig Weinberg wrote

Re: Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-12 Thread Roger Clough
the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-12, 08:50:11 Subject: Re: Continuous Game of Life They are certainly cool looking and biomorphic. The question I have is, at what point do they begin to have experiences...or do you think that those blobs

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-12 Thread Russell Standish
On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 05:50:11AM -0700, Craig Weinberg wrote: They are certainly cool looking and biomorphic. The question I have is, at what point do they begin to have experiences...or do you think that those blobs have experiences already? Would it give them more of a human experience

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-12 Thread Terren Suydam
Hi Russell, Even more suggestive is its similarity to Butschli protocells... see this video for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tmTDvL1AUs and many others uploaded by Rachel Armstrong... as she describes them a simple self-organizing system that is formed by the addition of a drop of

Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-11 Thread Jason Resch
http://www.jwz.org/blog/2012/10/smoothlifel/ Jason -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-11 Thread Russell Standish
That's serious cool! I love the comment posted Stephen Wolfram is very angry! They do discrete time (Euler integration), but one could easily make it continuous by replacing it with a Runge-Kutta integration scheme. Thanks for posting this. On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 04:14:15PM -0500, Jason Resch