Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 1:48 AM, meekerdb wrote: > On 5/2/2013 4:12 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:56 AM, meekerdb wrote: >>> >>> On 5/2/2013 3:32 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >>> >>> I'm simply pointing out that you may be under the influence of >>> christian morality even t

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 1:53 AM, meekerdb wrote: > On 5/2/2013 4:39 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote: > > " think it's more feasible to try to reverse-engineer the > morphogenetic algorithms encoded in the DNA. We would still not > understand the creation, but would have a greater chance of success, > a

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On 5/2/2013 6:51 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote: Hi Brent, You seem to assume that the read and copy operations are of something immutable. I submit that there is no 3p invariant at all! There is only the potential infinity of 'similar' copies. No, of course there are mutations. It's estimated

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

Hi Brent, You seem to assume that the read and copy operations are of something immutable. I submit that there is no 3p invariant at all! There is only the potential infinity of 'similar' copies. On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote: > Hi Brent, > > I agree 99.99% with

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

Hi Brent, I agree 99.99% with you here! I only differ in saying that the "copy" process is not exact and thus is equivalent to a "write". On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 7:53 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 5/2/2013 4:39 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote: > > " think it's more feasible to try to reverse-engi

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On 5/2/2013 4:39 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote: " think it's more feasible to try to reverse-engineer the morphogenetic algorithms encoded in the DNA. We would still not understand the creation, but would have a greater chance of success, and we would understand how to create the conditions for our

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On 5/2/2013 4:12 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:56 AM, meekerdb wrote: On 5/2/2013 3:32 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: I'm simply pointing out that you may be under the influence of christian morality even though you reject christianity. This is not surprising, we grew in a weste

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

" think it's more feasible to try to reverse-engineer the morphogenetic algorithms encoded in the DNA. We would still not understand the creation, but would have a greater chance of success, and we would understand how to create the conditions for our creation to grow. Fully understanding a develop

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:56 AM, meekerdb wrote: > On 5/2/2013 3:32 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > I'm simply pointing out that you may be under the influence of > christian morality even though you reject christianity. This is not > surprising, we grew in a western civilisation that was greatly > i

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On 5/2/2013 3:32 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: I'm simply pointing out that you may be under the influence of christian morality even though you reject christianity. This is not surprising, we grew in a western civilisation that was greatly influenced by christianity. In this case I believe you are be

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 4:02 PM, John Clark wrote: > On Wed, May 1, 2013, Telmo Menezes wrote: > >> > Artificial neural networks have been trained to fly planes, invest in >> > the stock market, converts speech to text, recognise handwriting and so on >> > and so on. > > > True. > > >> >> > For mo

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 02 May 2013, at 15:11, Telmo Menezes wrote: > >> On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 6:26 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 01 May 2013, at 17:33, Telmo Menezes wrote to John Clark: >>> >>> >>> > At this point I'm not even talking about Sci

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Stephen Paul King < > kingstephenp...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Brent, >> >> I think you may be reading my question in the wrong way. I didn't mean >> to equate your consciousness with that of every if/else d

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On 5/2/2013 2:18 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:09 PM, meekerdb > wrote: On 5/2/2013 7:47 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Would anyone here say that a conditional (e.g., "if/else") statement" (in some program) is conscious? I d

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote: > Brent, > > I think you may be reading my question in the wrong way. I didn't mean to > equate your consciousness with that of every if/else decision you make, but > rather ask something like, "What does the shortest possible program that

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

Brent, I think you may be reading my question in the wrong way. I didn't mean to equate your consciousness with that of every if/else decision you make, but rather ask something like, "What does the shortest possible program that is conscious look like?" I have trouble seeing why some short piec

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:09 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 5/2/2013 7:47 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > >> Would anyone here say that a conditional (e.g., "if/else") statement" (in >> some program) is conscious? >> > > I don't think so. We make if/else choices subconsciously all the time. > My introspectio

Re: Numbers

On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 4:09:03 PM UTC-4, JohnM wrote: > > Bruno asked why I have problems how to figure out *'numbers'*. * * > > In his texts (as I remember and I have no quotes at hand) the "world" can > be construed from a large enough amount of numbers in simple arithmetical > ways (addit

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On 5/2/2013 7:47 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Would anyone here say that a conditional (e.g., "if/else") statement" (in some program) is conscious? I don't think so. We make if/else choices subconsciously all the time. My introspection tells me that conscious thought is a kind of narrative story I

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On 5/2/2013 7:29 AM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, May 1, 2013 meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: > It maybe that achieving intelligence via the evolutionary paths available to animals on Earth did entail consciousness. MAYBE?! There is quite simply NO way Evolution could h

Re: Arguments against uploading

On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 9:41 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: http://io9.com/you-ll-probably-never-upload-your-mind-into-a-computer-474941498 > > 1) Brain functions are not computable because* *most of its important > features are the result of unpredictable, nonlinear interactions among > billions of c

Re: Arguments against uploading

On Thursday, May 2, 2013 3:08:17 PM UTC-4, Jason wrote: > > The arguments are not so much arguments, but a collection of dubious > assumptions. > > His first argument is that the brain is not computable, which requires > assuming the brain does not operate according to known physics, as all >

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On 5/2/2013 7:02 AM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, May 1, 2013, Telmo Menezes > wrote: > Artificial neural networks have been trained to fly planes, invest in the stock market, converts speech to text, recognise handwriting and so on and so on. True. >

Re: Arguments against uploading

The arguments are not so much arguments, but a collection of dubious assumptions. His first argument is that the brain is not computable, which requires assuming the brain does not operate according to known physics, as all known physics is computable. The second and third objections are that we

Re: Rationals vs Reals in Comp

On Thursday, May 2, 2013 11:54:34 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 02 May 2013, at 17:35, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Thursday, May 2, 2013 4:39:43 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 01 May 2013, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 10:49:11 AM

Re: Arguments against uploading

Nice. It could be heavier on support on the points, but not bad for a superficial pop-sci treatment. My comments: It’s a mistake to think of this debate in terms of having insufficient understanding or technology to simulate consciousness. The point is that we already have sufficient understan

Re: Numbers

Bruno asked:* "are you OK with this?"* - NO, I am not OK: as I follow, 0 is NOT a number, it does not change a number. But how do you *" A D D "* a number to another one if it is not identified as a quantity? Can you add an electric train to the taste of a lolly-pop? You speak about 'axioms' (-

Re: Rationals vs Reals in Comp

On 02 May 2013, at 17:35, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, May 2, 2013 4:39:43 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 May 2013, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 10:49:11 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Apr 2013, at 20:58, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednes

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On 02 May 2013, at 16:47, Jason Resch wrote: Would anyone here say that a conditional (e.g., "if/else") statement" (in some program) is conscious? I think such statements may form the atoms of consciousness, as they represent the point at which a program's behavior diverges based on the

Re: Rationals vs Reals in Comp

On Thursday, May 2, 2013 4:39:43 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 01 May 2013, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 10:49:11 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 30 Apr 2013, at 20:58, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, April 24, 2013 10:31:4

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On 02 May 2013, at 15:11, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 6:26 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 May 2013, at 17:33, Telmo Menezes wrote to John Clark: At this point I'm not even talking about Science but logic and a distaste for cheerfully and strongly believing in 2 contrad

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

Brent, thanks for your remarks - I usually value them - now I think you went a bit overboard. *"...Radical agnosticism, like solipism, is impossible to act on..."* * * I presume you checked all knowable and not knowable cases to decide the 'impossibility'. How 'radical'? more than you find 'reason

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

Would anyone here say that a conditional (e.g., "if/else") statement" (in some program) is conscious? I think such statements may form the atoms of consciousness, as they represent the point at which a program's behavior diverges based on the inspection of some information. Conditional st

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On Wed, May 1, 2013 meekerdb wrote: > It maybe that achieving intelligence via the evolutionary paths > available to animals on Earth did entail consciousness. > MAYBE?! There is quite simply NO way Evolution could have produced consciousness (and you and I know with absolute certainty that

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On Wed, May 1, 2013, Telmo Menezes wrote: > Artificial neural networks have been trained to fly planes, invest in the > stock market, converts speech to text, recognise handwriting and so on and > so on. > True. > > For most of these cases, nobody understands how the network works, they > only

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 6:26 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 01 May 2013, at 17:33, Telmo Menezes wrote to John Clark: > > > >>> At this point I'm not even talking about Science but logic and a distaste >>> for cheerfully and strongly believing in 2 contradictory things. >> >> >> I believe that hum

Re: Numbers

On 01 May 2013, at 22:09, John Mikes wrote: Bruno asked why I have problems how to figure out 'numbers'. In his texts (as I remember and I have no quotes at hand) the "world" can be construed from a large enough amount of numbers in simple arithmetical ways (addition-subtraction). Also: nu

Re: How can matter (the universe) be a thought in the mind of a cosmic intelligence ?

On 01 May 2013, at 21:01, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:55:05 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Apr 2013, at 17:38, Roger Clough wrote: How can matter (the universe) be a thought in the mind of a cosmic intelligence ? How can matter be a thought ? That is because

Re: Rationals vs Reals in Comp

On 01 May 2013, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 10:49:11 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Apr 2013, at 20:58, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, April 24, 2013 10:31:44 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Apr 2013, at 15:40, Craig Weinberg wrote: On W

Re: Why do particles decay randomly?

On 01 May 2013, at 19:47, John Clark wrote: On Wed, May 1, 2013 Bruno Marchal wrote: >> Darwin knew for a fact that he was conscious. > Really? Yes really. > References please. No. I was asking because the term "consciousness" seems more recent to me, and I am not sure it appears in