Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-20 Thread Kim Jones
On 20 Jul 2014, at 3:57 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/19/2014 10:38 PM, Kim Jones wrote: On 20 Jul 2014, at 3:11 pm, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: From: everything-list@googlegroups.com

Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-20 Thread Kim Jones
On 20 Jul 2014, at 3:51 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: It could be that language constructs the self (or perhaps more precisely that using language allowed us to create the concept of a self as one amongst many linguistic concepts). I don't grok this thing of the self 'evolving' like

RE: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-20 Thread 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kim Jones Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 10:38 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: It Knows That It Knows On 20 Jul 2014, at 3:11 pm, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List

RE: Atheist

2014-07-20 Thread 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of meekerdb Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 10:47 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Atheist On 7/19/2014 10:08 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote: From:

RE: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-20 Thread 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of meekerdb Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 10:48 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: It Knows That It Knows On 7/19/2014 10:11 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:

Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-20 Thread Kim Jones
On 20 Jul 2014, at 5:22 pm, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Are you suggesting that language, or our superb mastery of tool-making had little or no effect on how our own human “self” evolved? Chris Not on how it evolved after it

RE: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-20 Thread 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
-Original Message- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kim Jones Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 11:37 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: It Knows That It Knows On 20 Jul 2014, at 3:51 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com

RE: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-20 Thread 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kim Jones Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2014 12:44 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: It Knows That It Knows On 20 Jul 2014, at 5:22 pm, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List

Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-20 Thread LizR
On 20 July 2014 18:37, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: On 20 Jul 2014, at 3:51 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: It could be that language constructs the self (or perhaps more precisely that using language allowed us to create the concept of a self as one amongst many linguistic

Re: Atheist

2014-07-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 19 Jul 2014, at 22:08, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote: Well sure... life is more pleasant when people have a live and let live attitude. As you point out respect needs mutuality. Respecting an institution that does not respect anyone that does not adopt their dogma is

Re: Atheist

2014-07-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Jul 2014, at 02:21, meekerdb wrote: On 7/14/2014 7:46 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Now, if you are interested in experiencing the (rather common) God hallucination, there are technic for that (fasting, sleep deprivation, magic mushrooms, LSD, salvia, near death experiences, etc.).

Re: Atheist

2014-07-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Jul 2014, at 03:00, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 2:21 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/14/2014 7:46 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Now, if you are interested in experiencing the (rather common) God hallucination, there are technic for that

Re: Atheist

2014-07-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Jul 2014, at 05:26, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: I would describe it as a societal paradigm... this unspoken rule that all should respect religion. Yes, but why does religion and only

Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Jul 2014, at 05:26, Kim Jones wrote: A good thinking habit to cultivate is simplicity. Try and make it as simple as you can. Consciousness comes in two flavours (that I know of): 1. I know 2. I know that I know. (Presumably something to do with remembering that you knew.) I

Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Jul 2014, at 06:48, meekerdb wrote: On 7/19/2014 9:25 PM, Kim Jones wrote: On 20 Jul 2014, at 1:44 pm, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 11:26 PM, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Consciousness comes in two flavours (that I know of): 1. I

Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-20 Thread meekerdb
On 7/19/2014 11:37 PM, Kim Jones wrote: On 20 Jul 2014, at 3:51 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: It could be that language constructs the self (or perhaps more precisely that using language allowed us to create the concept of a self as one amongst many linguistic concepts). I don't grok

Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Jul 2014, at 07:57, meekerdb wrote: On 7/19/2014 10:38 PM, Kim Jones wrote: On 20 Jul 2014, at 3:11 pm, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf

Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Jul 2014, at 08:13, Kim Jones wrote: On 20 Jul 2014, at 3:57 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/19/2014 10:38 PM, Kim Jones wrote: On 20 Jul 2014, at 3:11 pm, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: From:

Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Jul 2014, at 08:37, Kim Jones wrote: On 20 Jul 2014, at 3:51 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: It could be that language constructs the self (or perhaps more precisely that using language allowed us to create the concept of a self as one amongst many linguistic concepts). I

Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-20 Thread David Nyman
Have you read Julian Jaynes The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind? Great book! Even if they are impossible to verify in detail, Jaynes's ideas are a terrific stimulus to thinking about both the function and the origin of consciousness (in the 3p sense). By the way, I

Chalmers and Consciousness

2014-07-20 Thread David Nyman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=uhRhtFFhNzQ This is a TED video of David Chalmers on the Hard Problem. His basic ideas will be pretty well known to most of us on this list although interestingly, he now seems less equivocal about panpsychism than in The Conscious Mind. He

Re: Chalmers and Consciousness

2014-07-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Jul 2014, at 15:58, David Nyman wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=uhRhtFFhNzQ This is a TED video of David Chalmers on the Hard Problem. His basic ideas will be pretty well known to most of us on this list although interestingly, he now seems less

Re: Atheist

2014-07-20 Thread Platonist Guitar Cowboy
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 20 Jul 2014, at 03:00, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 2:21 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/14/2014 7:46 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Now, if you are interested in experiencing

Re: Atheist

2014-07-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Jul 2014, at 16:32, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 20 Jul 2014, at 03:00, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 2:21 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/14/2014 7:46 AM,

Re: How will air travel work in a green solar economy?

2014-07-20 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
Have you taken it interstate yet, over 500 miles, summer vacation movie style yet? It will easily run at 85mph on the freeway with some speed in reserve. It doesn't acclerate as well as my VW Passat 1.8T did, but it's adequate. Maintenance - dunno; hasn't needed any

Re: The Higgs and SUSY vs the Multiverse

2014-07-20 Thread LizR
Does no one have any comment / answer / information on this? On 20 July 2014 15:38, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: We've just been watching Particle Fever - a documentary about the LHC (from 2007 to the discovery of the Higgs boson last year). In it, at least a couple of people (Monica

Re: The Higgs and SUSY vs the Multiverse

2014-07-20 Thread Richard Ruquist
My only comment is that SUSY is associated with string theory, not MW. String theory includes QFT as a low energy equivalent w/o SUSY and QFT does not predict MW. But then I am just another dummie. Richard On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 6:22 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Does no one have any

Re: The Higgs and SUSY vs the Multiverse

2014-07-20 Thread Richard Ruquist
Also 10^500 is the number of unique windings thru 500 topo holes each winding having 10 quantum states, but in 6 dimensions, not 11. I also do not understand why SUSY would rule out MW. Richard On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 6:22 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Does no one have any comment /

Re: The Higgs and SUSY vs the Multiverse

2014-07-20 Thread Jesse Mazer
Hopefully someone with a better understanding of these things will comment, but I believe it has to do with what physicists call the hierarchy problem, here are some links for your perusal: http://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/particle-physics-basics/the-hierarchy-problem/

Re: The Higgs and SUSY vs the Multiverse

2014-07-20 Thread LizR
Thanks! I will perhaps have more to say / ask once I've looked at those. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

Re: The Higgs and SUSY vs the Multiverse

2014-07-20 Thread LizR
To a first approximation this appears to have something to do with the relative weakness of gravity compared to the weak force. This is, I gather, highly unexpected because it involves some delicate cancellations (presumably delicate to about 32 decimal places). And I also gather this is connected

Re: The Higgs and SUSY vs the Multiverse

2014-07-20 Thread LizR
To a second approximation, the afore-mentioned cancellation can be made very exact by giving each particle a partner which exactly balances its contribution (or words to that effect). These are the superpartners, and give a fermion for each known boson and vice versa. Since fermions and bosons

Re: The Higgs and SUSY vs the Multiverse

2014-07-20 Thread LizR
Or even a broken symmetry. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to

Re: The Higgs and SUSY vs the Multiverse

2014-07-20 Thread Richard Ruquist
But they cannot cancel to high precision if the symmetry is broken On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 9:17 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Or even a broken symmetry. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group