Re: First Person Frame of Reference

2004-06-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi George, At 15:33 03/06/04 -0700, George Levy wrote: Bruno, I reread your post of 5/11/2004 and it raised some questions and a possible paradox involving the idea that the notion of first person is absolutely not formalizable. (see below, for a quotation from your post) GL wrote It may be that

Re: First Person Frame of Reference

2004-06-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
George, I am afraid there is a point which I should still comment in your post. BM:But then it looks you don't like any more the 3-person discourse, why? GL: The adoption of the first person as a frame of reference (my terminology) implies the ultimate relativization. OK, but then why are

Re: First Person Frame of Reference

2004-06-04 Thread John M
Bruno, do we have an agreed-upon identification "what" to call an observer? I may heve missed it on the list, if yes. Your post below speaks about the topic, but I don't see some conclusion: is it the unformalizable first person concept, is it upon formal, or nonformal considerations? Isthe

Re: First Person Frame of Reference

2004-06-04 Thread John M
GL wrote: How can the notion of "objective reality" be defined? The question (in non-physics terms) is IMO a series of oxymorons: "Objective" anything (unless we imply unknow(n)/able features) is restricted to whatever the mind has interpreted upon impact(?) it received. Eo ips'objective' is

Re: First Person Frame of Reference

2004-06-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
At 11:04 04/06/04 -0400, John M wrote: Bruno, do we have an agreed-upon identification what to call an observer? I may heve missed it on the list, if yes. Your post below speaks about the topic, but I don't see some conclusion: is it the unformalizable first person concept, is it upon formal,