Re: Memory erasure
Hal Finney wrote: Arguing against this is that every night you fall asleep, a similar loss of consciousness (often with memory erasure of the last few thoughts before sleep). This theory would predict that each night you only experience universes where, for whatever reason, you never again lose consciousness. I don't know why this objection to QTI/QS keeps coming up. It is surely a truism that you cannot *experience unconsciousness*, but this is certainly not the same as saying that you cannot lose consciousness, or experience worlds where you lose consciousness. If the loss of consciousness is permanent (i.e., death), then yes, since it is imposssible to *experience unconsciousness*, you will not experience those worlds. But if the loss of consciousness is temporary, as in sleep, you will experience only a discontinuity from which you might conclude you have gone through a period of unconsciousness. You can turn this whole chain of logic around and make it an argument against QS. Sleep proves that loss of consciousness is possible, and that memory erasure is possible. Imagine memory erasure becoming so complete that it erases your entire life. Is that possible? If so, isn't it essentially the same as suicide? Or if it's not possible, where is the dividing line between the amount of memory erasure that is and is not possible? I agree, complete memory erasure is essentially the same as suicide. Therefore, you cannot experience complete memory erasure if QTI is true. The "dividing line between the amount of memory erasure that is and is not possible" is a problem in the philosophy of personal identity: how much "you" can change and still be "you". The MWI predicts that every possible variation on your mind will exist in some world, and although you can get into complex discussions about amnesia, delusions etc., a simple answer might be, those versions which think they are you, are in fact you. --Stathis Papaioannou _ Buy what you really want - sell what you don't on eBay: http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/705-10129-5668-323?ID=2
Re: Memory erasure
- Oorspronkelijk bericht - Van: ""Hal Finney"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Aan: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: Verzonden: Sunday, May 01, 2005 07:30 PM Onderwerp: Re: Memory erasure > You can turn this whole chain of logic around and make it an argument > against QS. Sleep proves that loss of consciousness is possible, > and that memory erasure is possible. Imagine memory erasure becoming > so complete that it erases your entire life. Is that possible? If so, > isn't it essentially the same as suicide? Or if it's not possible, where > is the dividing line between the amount of memory erasure that is and > is not possible? Complete memory erasure is probably the same as suicide. You can imagine deleting almost all of your memory, storing it on some machine. Before the procedure you leave a note to yourself explaining how to retrieve your memory. When you read the note, you are identical to all your versions who have decided to do the same thing. If you then load the data back in your memory you could thus end up in any of these branches in which you decided to do this. Perhaps this happens all the time to us when we forget something and then later remember it or look it up... Saibal
Re: Implications of MWI
No. For me, it explained a number things that I had questions about. Learning that there seemed to be a scientific reason for what was going on changed my worldview. It added order to what was beginning to look rather chaotic.- Original Message - From: "Mark Fancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: everything-list@eskimo.com Subject: Implications of MWI Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:36:03 -0400 > > Did accepting and understanding the MWI drastically alter your > philosophical worldview? If so, how? > > I cannot answer this question myself because I do not truly understand > many parts of it. > > Thanks > > -- > Mark Fancey > Anti-Bushite & Bullshite -- ___Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
Re: Memory erasure
Saibal Mitra writes: > Although (quantum) suicide experiments can never be successful, memory > erasure could still work. Suppose you are an artifically intelligent > machine and you can erase any part of your memory. One day you receive > news that an asteroid is on its way to earth which will completely > destroy the planet. If you just erase this from your memory and check > the news again you will very likely not hear about this anymore. That's a cool idea. Once you erase your memory, your consciousness spans (i.e. is instantiated in) all universes where the event either happens or does not. If it is an unlikely event, then the fraction of the multiverse where that event happens is a small fraction of the set of universes which share your consciousness. So the chance that you will then discover the bad news is similarly small. Believers in quantum suicide may for similar reasons argue that memory erasure is impossible. There is a universe where your memory erasure attempt fails, and your conscious train of thought proceeds unchanged in those universes. Universes where you do erase your memory terminate your train of thought and, from a narrow perspective, kill your current-moment conscious mind. Hence your mind will proceed only down the pathways where its consciousness continues to exist, and from your conscious perspective it will appear that the memory erasure never works. Arguing against this is that every night you fall asleep, a similar loss of consciousness (often with memory erasure of the last few thoughts before sleep). This theory would predict that each night you only experience universes where, for whatever reason, you never again lose consciousness. You can turn this whole chain of logic around and make it an argument against QS. Sleep proves that loss of consciousness is possible, and that memory erasure is possible. Imagine memory erasure becoming so complete that it erases your entire life. Is that possible? If so, isn't it essentially the same as suicide? Or if it's not possible, where is the dividing line between the amount of memory erasure that is and is not possible? Hal Finney
Memory erasure
Although (quantum) suicide experiments can never be successful, memory erasure could still work. Suppose you are an artifically intelligent machine and you can erase any part of your memory. One day you receive news that an asteroid is on its way to earth which will completely destroy the planet. If you just erase this from your memory and check the news again you will very likely not hear about this anymore. Saibal -Defeat Spammers by launching DDoS attacks on Spam-Websites: http://www.hillscapital.com/antispam/
Re: Implications of MWI
The MWI made me take the idea of multiple universes/multiple realities serious. When I joined this list I believed that quantum suicide could work, but I later found out that it cannot possibly work. I now believe that there exists an ensemble of all possible mathematical models/descriptions/computer programs. These things exist in a mathematical sense. For this idea to work (to yield predictions that are consistent with the known laws of physics) one has to assume that there exists a measure that prefers simple programs over complex programs. Saibal - Defeat Spammers by launching DDoS attacks on Spam-Websites: http://www.hillscapital.com/antispam/ - Oorspronkelijk bericht - Van: "Mark Fancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Aan: Verzonden: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 04:36 PM Onderwerp: Implications of MWI > Did accepting and understanding the MWI drastically alter your > philosophical worldview? If so, how? > > I cannot answer this question myself because I do not truly understand > many parts of it. > > Thanks > > -- > Mark Fancey > Anti-Bushite & Bullshite >
