Re: Quantum Immortality = no second law

2008-04-15 Thread Russell Standish

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:24:12PM -0700, nichomachus wrote:
 Hi, Russell,
 
 Surely the framework of the Many Worlds interpretation would say that
 the likelyhood of measuring a quantum observable in state A rather
 than B reflects the number of histories in which the observable is
 measured as being in state A divided by number of histories in which
 either is seen. Molecules in a gas chamber may not be the best
 example, as I am personally unclear as to whether the macroscopic
 behavior of the aggregate is reduceable to probabilistic quantum
 events. But the point remains that it is impossible to adhere to the
 MWI without also affirming not only the existence of histories in
 which unlikely events happen, but also ones in which *only* unlikely
 events happen.

Absolutely - there are histories in which entropy decreases
continuously. This doesn't contradict the second law, because the
second law is probabilistic. Many, many more histories exist with
increasing entropy than decreasing entropy. The chance of an observer
observing continuous decrease in entropy is negligible, but small
exceptions to the second law can be observed in our world. IIRC, some guys
at ANU showed this a few years back, which got a bit of press,
although its not surprising when you understand what the second law
really is - I think it was Ken Baldwin's group, but you can try Google
for details.

 This includes universes where the cat never dies,
 uranium never decays, and (perhaps) the second law does not hold. Is
 it right to think that this is unproblematic? 

Yes.

 Or perhaps we should
 regard the Many Worlds formalism as merely an instrumentalistic
 interpretation, similar to how Bohr and Heisenberg regarded their
 Copenhagen interpretation, rather than granting full ontological
 significance to alternate possible histories.
 

I take the Many Worlds as ontologically significant, unlike Bohr or Heisenberg.

 
  In any case, QTI does not change the observed outcome of likely versus
  unlikely events, it just changes the set of possible outcome on which
  to apply the second law.
 
 What does QTI stand for?
 

Quantum Theory of Immortality. What you are talking about with
Tegmark's suicide experiment.

 So our suicidal physicist would have enabled himself to observe the
 extremely scenario of seeing radioactive elements never decay, by
 killing himself in all histories where decay ocurred and thereby
 selecting only the ones where it did not take place to continue his
 awareness in.Of course, those branches of his identity would still
 have observed the same outcomes even if the gun was unloaded, so he
 doesn't really have to kill himself in nearly all universes in order
 to get to see it.
 
 But if I accept the above as true, then I must also accept that there
 are histories that have been experienced in which no atom of an
 unstable element has decayed since Jan. 1, 1900. (or any date you
 prefer)
 

Yes.

 When Thomas Young performed his double slit experiment, were there any
 versions of himself that did not observe an interference pattern?
 

Probably. There were others where his apparatus blew up, or a cat peed
on a vital component and so on. 

 Why not?
 
 I appreciate the replies as I am more questions than answers at this
 point on these topics.
 

-- 


A/Prof Russell Standish  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Mathematics  
UNSW SYDNEY 2052 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Australiahttp://www.hpcoders.com.au


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Re: Quantum Immortality = no second law

2008-04-15 Thread Russell Standish

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 02:22:23AM +0200, Saibal Mitra wrote:
 
  First off, how is it that the MWI does not imply
 quantum immortality?
 
 MWI is just quantum mechanics without the wavefunction collapse postulate.
 This then implies that after a measurement your wavefuntion will be in a
 superposition of the states corresponding to definite outcomes. But we
 cannot just consider suicide experiments and then say that just because
 branches of the wavefuntion exist in which I survive, I'll find myself there
 with 100% probability. The fact that probabilities are conserved follows
 from unitary time evolution. If a state evolves into a linear combination of
 states in which I'm dead and alive then the probabilities of all these
 states add up to 1. The probability of finding myself to be alive at all
 after the experiment is then less than the probability of me finding myself
 about to perform the suicide experiment.
 
 The probability of me finding myself to be alive after n suicide experiments
 decays exponentially with n. Therefore I should not expect to find myself
 having survived many suicide experiments. Note that contrary to what you
 often read in the popular accounts of the multiverse, the multiverse does
 not split when we make observations. The most natural state for the entire
 multiverse is just an eigenstate of the Hamiltonian. The energy can be taken
 to be zero, therefore the wavefunction of the multiverse satisfies the
 equation:
 

One should also note that this is the ASSA position. The ASSA was
introduced by Jacques Mallah in his argument against quantum
immortality, and a number of participants in this list adhere to the
ASSA position. Its counterpart if the RSSA, which does imply quantum
immortality (provided that the no cul-de-sac conjecture holds), and
other list participants adhere to the RSSA. To date, no argument has
convincingly demonstrated which of the ASSA or RSSA should be
preferred, so it has become somewhat a matter of taste. There is some
discussion of this in my book Theory of Nothing.

Cheers

-- 


A/Prof Russell Standish  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Mathematics  
UNSW SYDNEY 2052 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Australiahttp://www.hpcoders.com.au


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