On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 10:11:30AM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 28 Nov 2008, at 10:46, Russell Standish wrote:
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:09:01AM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote:
MGA 3
...
But this reasoning goes through if we make the hole in the film
itself. Reconsider the
Hey,
Kim Jones wrote:
I think this idea is so momentous that I actually wish to compose a
piece of music - possibly a symphony - which seeks to represent this
idea in music.
That would be cool!
Et pourquoi pas? Most of the great composers attempted to represent
the TRANSCENDENTAL
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
I realise this coming close to regarding consciousness as akin to the
religious notion of a disembodied soul. But what are the alternatives?
As I see it, if we don't discard computationalism the only alternative
is to deny that consciousness exists at all, which
Bruno,
I wanted to submit some reflections to M.A. but you did it better.
Two words, however, I picked out:
*1. bifurcate*
I consider it a human narrowness to expect anything *to split in
TWO*(only) - Nature (the existence?) does not 'count'.
It has unlimited varants and the choices come under
On 30 Nov 2008, at 04:23, Brent Meeker wrote:
Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 29 Nov 2008, at 15:56, Abram Demski wrote:
Bruno,
The argument was more of the type : removal of unnecessay and
unconscious or unintelligent parts. Those parts have just no
perspective. If they have some perpective
Abram,
My answer would have to be, no, she lacks the necessary counterfactual
behaviors during that time.
? The film of the graph lacks also the counterfactuals.
And, moreover, if only part of the brain
were being run by a recording
... which lacks the counterfactual, ...
then she
Hi all,
Bruno, do you still keep a notion of causality and the likes in
platonia? I have collected these snips from some recent posts:
Brent Meeker wrote:
But is causality an implementation detail? There seems to be an
implicit
assumption that digitally represented states form a sequence
On 30 Nov 2008, at 11:57, Russell Standish wrote:
On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 10:11:30AM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 28 Nov 2008, at 10:46, Russell Standish wrote:
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:09:01AM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote:
MGA 3
...
But this reasoning goes through if we make the
Hello Bruno,
I must admit you have completely lost me with MGA 3.
With MGA 1 and 2, I would say that, with MEC+MAT, also the the
projection of the movie (and Lucky Alice in 1) are conscious - because
it supervenes on the physical activity.
MEC says: it's the computation that counts, not the
Bruno,
No, she cannot be conscious that she is partially conscious in this
case, because the scenario is set up such that she does everything as
if she were fully conscious-- only the counterfactuals change. But, if
someone tested those counterfactuals by doing something that the
recording
Bruno,
I have reread MGA 2 and would like to add the following:
We have the
optical boolean graph: OBG - this computes alice's dream.
we make a movie of this computation.
Now we run again, but in OBG some nodes do not make the computation
correctly, BUT the movie _triggers_ the nodes, so in
On 30 Nov 2008, at 16:31, Günther Greindl wrote:
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
I realise this coming close to regarding consciousness as akin to the
religious notion of a disembodied soul. But what are the
alternatives?
As I see it, if we don't discard computationalism the only
Günther Greindl wrote:
Hi all,
Bruno, do you still keep a notion of causality and the likes in
platonia? I have collected these snips from some recent posts:
Brent Meeker wrote:
But is causality an implementation detail? There seems to be an
implicit
assumption that digitally
On Nov 30, 2008, at 3:19 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
Yes, and I think of consciousness as an essential side-effect of the
computation, as addition is an essential side-effect of the sum of two
numbers.
Ok, I'm with you so far. But I'd like to get a better handle your
concept of a
Bruno,
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the detailed explanations. I'll
post my responses in an interlinear manner using color to differentiate (if
that's ok). M.A.
- Original Message -
From: Bruno Marchal
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008
On Nov 30, 2008, at 9:53 AM, Günther Greindl wrote:
Kory wrote:
I have an intuition that causality
(or its logical equivalent in Platonia) is somehow important for
consciousness. You argue that the the slide from Fully-Functional
Alice to Lucky Alice (or Fully-Functional Firefox to Lucky
On 01/12/2008, at 6:21 AM, M.A. wrote:
Is it the connotation of schizophrenic that you don't like?
The term schizophrenic is an incredibly misused/misunderstood
adjective. It specifically DOES NOT mean multiple personality
(disorder) which is the common coin usage (ie not in a medico-
On Nov 30, 2008, at 10:14 AM, Günther Greindl wrote:
I must admit you have completely lost me with MGA 3.
I still find the whole thing easier to grasp when presented in terms
of cellular automata.
Let's say we have a computer program that starts with a large but
finite 2D grid of bits,
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 07:10:43PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote:
I am speaking as someone unconvinced that MGA2 implies an
absurdity. MGA2 implies that the consciousness is supervening on the
stationary film.
? I could agree, but is this not absurd enough, given MEC and the
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