Re: KIM 1 (was: Lost and not lost 1)

2008-12-14 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 14 Dec 2008, at 03:30, A. Wolf wrote: One of the reasons I rarely post to this list is that many people here seem trapped in an eternal series of meaningless essentialistic debates. Who ? Where ? How? (I hope you are alluding to the materialists here). Nothing objective or

Re: KIM 1 (was: Lost and not lost 1)

2008-12-14 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 13 Dec 2008, at 18:27, John Mikes wrote: Bruno wrote: ...I am not my body - I am not my brain -- I can change everything and anything I want about me and still remain me ergo I am an immaterial something: probably a number or a very long bitstring which can, like any data, be

Re: KIM 1 (was: Lost and not lost 1)

2008-12-14 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 12 Dec 2008, at 23:38, ronaldheld wrote: Bruno: I am uncertain that this was answered. You are starting with mathematics, Not really. I am starting with the real world. I assume you have a brain disease and that your doctor proposed to you an artificial digital, supposedly

Re: KIM 1 (was: Lost and not lost 1)

2008-12-14 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi Kim, On 13 Dec 2008, at 02:27, Kim Jones wrote: Isn't it great that we may soon be able to capture the soul to disk You could have a Catholic soul, try an Islamic soul, reboot as a Buddhist - any religion you want I am not sure someone will say yes to a doctor who propose an

Re: Mind and personhood. Was: Kim 1

2008-12-14 Thread John Mikes
Dear Anna, I think this is the first time I reflect to your post and I found them reasonable, well informed. You wrote: ..*some subjective experience of personhood or* being *that we all share*, and each of us presumably experiences *something* like that. I emphasize the 'something': who knows

Re: Mind and personhood. Was: Kim 1

2008-12-14 Thread A. Wolf
..*some subjective experience of personhood or* being *that we all share*, and each of us presumably experiences *something* like that. I emphasize the 'something': who knows if we experience (share?) the same feeling? The words we use to describe it are not more relevant than describing

Re: Mind and personhood. Was: Kim 1

2008-12-14 Thread Colin Hales
A. Wolf wrote: ..*some subjective experience of personhood or* being *that we all share*, and each of us presumably experiences *something* like that. I emphasize the 'something': who knows if we experience (share?) the same feeling? The words we use to describe it are not more relevant

Re: Mind and personhood. Was: Kim 1

2008-12-14 Thread Brent Meeker
A. Wolf wrote: ..*some subjective experience of personhood or* being *that we all share*, and each of us presumably experiences *something* like that. I emphasize the 'something': who knows if we experience (share?) the same feeling? The words we use to describe it are not more relevant

Re: Mind and personhood. Was: Kim 1

2008-12-14 Thread Kim Jones
On 15/12/2008, at 2:16 PM, Colin Hales wrote: An ability to deny self-awareness as a marker of self awareness. You can use this as a logical bootstrap to sort things out. I like it! cheers colin hales Anyone remember George Levy? Here is what he said about this: ..this only proves