Re: continuity - cloning

2009-02-12 Thread Günther Greindl
Jack, As Stathis and Quentin wrote, we have approached the core of the disagreement. You (Jack) seem to have a very quaint idea of personal identity - some kind of essentialism. Strange that you hold that theory and call talk of 1st person/3rd person distinction sloganeering. It seems,

Re: ASSA vs. RSSA and the no cul-de-sac conjecture was (AB continuity)

2009-02-12 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
2009/2/12 Johnathan Corgan jcor...@aeinet.com: It is an open question (to me at least) whether there are any observer moments without successors, i.e., where the amplitude of the SW goes to zero. If it does not, then this implies that the always branching tree of observer moments has no

Re: A summary I just wrote for my blog

2009-02-12 Thread John Mikes
Kim, I presume you have clear ideas about what 'life' may be (to live?) and the a-temporal distinction of 'ever'. (It is definitely not = 'a long long time'). I paraphrase you wisdom as: time in our opinion goes as long as we live(?) so 'after that' is not identified. My reasons for not

Re: adult vs. child

2009-02-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Feb 2009, at 20:47, Brent Meeker wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 11 Feb 2009, at 00:38, Günther Greindl wrote: I'm with Mike and Brent. Bruno, giving A1 and A2 mirrors which would show different stuff violates Stathis' assumption of running the _same_ computation - you can't go

Re: Dreams and measure

2009-02-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Feb 2009, at 18:30, Saibal Mitra wrote: Welcome back Jack Mallah! I have a different argument against QTI. I had a nice dream last night, but unfortunately it suddenly ended. Now, this is empirical evidence against QTI because, according to the QTI, the life expectancy of the

Re: Dreams and measure

2009-02-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Feb 2009, at 21:51, Brent Meeker wrote: Saibal Mitra wrote: Welcome back Jack Mallah! I have a different argument against QTI. I had a nice dream last night, but unfortunately it suddenly ended. Now, this is empirical evidence against QTI because, according to the QTI, the life

Re: adult vs. child

2009-02-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Feb 2009, at 22:19, Brent Meeker wrote: This idea seems inconsistent with MWI. In QM the split is uncaused so it's hard to see why its influence extends into the past and increases the measure of computations that were identical before the split. I got the inspiration from

Re: The Seventh Step 1 (Numbers and Notations)

2009-02-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Feb 2009, at 23:46, John Mikes wrote: Dear Bruno, just lightening up a bit...you know that I graduated already from 2nd yr grade school so I have an open mind criticizing high science. Not that if I see 'I' that means 1, but if I see 'III' that does not mean 3 to me, it means

Re: Measure Increases or Decreases? - entropy

2009-02-12 Thread Jack Mallah
--- On Thu, 2/12/09, George Levy gl...@quantics.net wrote: I have also been overwhelmed by the volume on this list. The idea is not to take more than you can chew. Indeed. --- On Wed, 2/11/09, George Levy If that were the case, the Born Rule would fail. Perhaps the probability rule

Re: ASSA vs. RSSA and the no cul-de-sac conjecture was (AB continuity)

2009-02-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
Excellent post Johnatan. Of course those who know a bit of AUDA (which I have already explained on the list) know that from the third person self-reference views we have cul-de-sac everywhere (we die all the times, cf the Papaioannou multiverses), and this is what forces us, when we want a

Re: Measure Increases or Decreases? - Was adult vs. child

2009-02-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 12 Feb 2009, at 02:59, Jack Mallah wrote: Hi George. The everything list feels just like old times, no? I am afraid we are just a bit bactracking 10 years ago. No problem. After all, concerning theology, I am asking people to backtrack 1500 years ago (1480 to be precise). Which

Re: The Seventh Step 1 (Numbers and Notations)

2009-02-12 Thread Mirek Dobsicek
I'm sorry but I can't resist to paste this short conversation between Lord Blackadder and his servant Baldrick. Maybe you know this british blackadder comedy. If you teach: III and III mean 3 and 7, then you said nothing, just named them. That was my point. To talk on notation. I

Re: The arrow of time is the easiest computational direction for life in the manifold

2009-02-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
Ronald, Thanks for the reference. Of course Lobo implicitly assume physicalism, so we cannot really built from that. I guess you know that Gödel is the first one showing that there exist solutions of Einstein's GR equations with closed time loop. Circling computations exist (trivially) in

Re: continuity - cloning

2009-02-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 12 Feb 2009, at 05:38, Tom Caylor wrote: But of course you would worry just as much if the clone were replaced by a zombie... I guess that gets back to the distinction between first person and third person. It seems to me that is the problem indeed. At the same time, it seems

Re: ASSA vs. RSSA and the no cul-de-sac conjecture was (AB continuity)

2009-02-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 12 Feb 2009, at 14:30, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: 2009/2/12 Johnathan Corgan jcor...@aeinet.com: It is an open question (to me at least) whether there are any observer moments without successors, i.e., where the amplitude of the SW goes to zero. If it does not, then this implies

Which Darwin?

2009-02-12 Thread Tom Caylor
Today is Charles Darwin's 200th birthday (the 150th anniversay of the publication of On the Origin of Species, and we Americans at least are also celebrating the 200th birthday of Abraham Lincoln. Perhaps at this milestone it would be good to bring up the question, What bearing does Darwin's

Re: The Seventh Step 1 (Numbers and Notations)

2009-02-12 Thread John Mikes
My present inserts in Italics - some parts of the posts erased for brevity John On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 11 Feb 2009, at 23:46, John Mikes wrote: (...) Not that if I see 'I' that means 1, but if I see 'III' that does not

Re: ASSA vs. RSSA and the no cul-de-sac conjecture was (AB continuity)

2009-02-12 Thread russell standish
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 04:48:22PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: Excellent post Johnatan. Of course those who know a bit of AUDA (which I have already explained on the list) know that from the third person self-reference views we have cul-de-sac everywhere (we die all the times, cf the

Re: Which Darwin?

2009-02-12 Thread russell standish
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 09:05:20AM -0800, Tom Caylor wrote: Today is Charles Darwin's 200th birthday (the 150th anniversay of the publication of On the Origin of Species, and we Americans at least are also celebrating the 200th birthday of Abraham Lincoln. Perhaps at this milestone it