Re: TIME warp

2011-05-29 Thread selva kumar
i was not talking about going back in time..but slowing time..
it happens near a huge mass right ?


On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 8:32 PM, 1Z peterdjo...@yahoo.com wrote:



 On May 18, 12:56 pm, ronaldheld ronaldh...@gmail.com wrote:
  Are you talking about a Star Trek term or for certain space-times,
  the ability to go forwards or backwards in time relative to a distant
  observer?
 
  Ronald
 
  On May 16, 3:31 pm, selva selvakr1...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   hi everyone,
 
   can someone explain me what a time warp is ? or why there is a time
   warp ?
   well yes,it is due to the curvature of the space-time graph near a
   heavy mass.
   but how does it points to the center of the mass,how does it finds
   it..
   and explanation at atomic level plz..

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_timelike_curve

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Re: FREE WILL--is it really free?

2011-05-29 Thread selva kumar
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:

 Hi selva,


 On 16 May 2011, at 16:49, selva wrote:

  Considering only our world in the many world interpretation,it is a
 separate causal domain..
 there is no domain shear between the different domains(different
 parallel worlds)..i.e.there is decoherence..
 It is known that in our causal domain,there is cause and effect
 relationships..
 everything is happening because of a cause..everything is as it is
 because it ought to be such.
 There is a grand flow in the varying positions of atoms constituting
 the universe..
 If this is right,


 This can't be right, if we assume that the brain (or whatever capable of
 sustaining consciousness) can be emulated by a Turing machine, as most
 people believe.





  then how can we say ,we have free will ?


 A determinist theory of free will is possible. What counts is that no
 machine can determine itself completely, so that the determinism of his/her
 behavior is known only by God, not by the machine, nor by machine of
 equivalent complexity.
 Now, if you mean that free will is the capacity to disobey to arithmetic,
 then it does not exist, most probably.





  why is there binary state at all ?


 OK. You could have asked equivalently: why is there natural numbers?
 Logicians have shown last century that this is impossible to answer.
 Actually we need the natural numbers to ask why natural numbers. They
 cannot be recover from any simpler theory. So we have to have some faith in
 them. It is part of the initial postulates.




  if there is free will,how can we say everything affects everything ?
 why is the 50-50 probability arises ?


 Such a probability can be explained by self-duplication. If you are a
 machine, I can scan you (in principle) and duplicate you in two different
 places. You cannot predict in advance what will be your subjective
 experience after the duplication. BTW, this can be used to explain that
 free-will is not explainable by the use of indeterminacy.




  why is there probability functions at all ?


 Assuming we are digital machines, the answer is that the reality of
 realities is very huge. There is an infinity of computations going through
 your actual state of mind, and computer science explains why no machine can
 know which computations, nor even which sheaf of computations support it.
 There is automatically a statistics for the observable.




  If the positions of the atoms in my mind(my thoughts) now affect the
 positions of the atoms in your brain(your thoughts) ,then does it mean
 you don't have a free will ?


 Why? On the contrary. To have free will you must have some ability to make
 change around you. You certainly need some amount of determinacy.

 can i argue that the my ability to make change around me arises from the
 changes around me..

you are now thinking what you are thinking only because i asked you
thisthat is,with your so called ability i am changing some thing,and
that changed things gives you the ability to change things around you..so
going backwards..(events are affected only by the past occurences in the
cone).wont we come to a single cause?



  Is our consciousness part of the grand consciousness (the universe).


 If by universe you mean physical universe, it is not clear if that exist.
 Strictly speaking it is an open problem. With mechanism we can say that
 there are many dreams, and we can say that some dreams glue well together to
 form shared dreams. But it is not known if they glue so well as to define a
 singular physical universe, or even just a singular physical multiverse.
 Extremely hard question.




  Are we like the white cells(individually conscious) in our body,to the
 universe..?


 You might be naive about we, body and universe. No problem, it is a
 tradition since theology has been abandon to politics 1500 years ago, in
 Occident. (Closure of Plato Academy in Athena, about 525 after JC).



  Then above all,the real question is why is there parallel worlds at
 all ?


 If you accept the idea that your brain can be simulated at some correct
 level of substitution (so that you would survive a digital brain
 substitution), then the additive and multiplicative structure of numbers
 defines a vast block mindscape, containing many dreams (as seen from
 inside). Some dreams glue and generate sharable (among collectivities of
 universal numbers) deep histories, which are seen as universe appearance
 from their points views. The physical realm does not disappear, but is
 secondary to the numbers dreams. The physical realm is still fundamental,
 but it is epistemological, not ontological.
 You might read the shortest paper(*) I wrote to sum up the consequences of
 taking seriously the *assumption* that we are Turing emulable. We discussed
 it a lot. Some have not yet seen the point, I'm afraid. I sum up it
 provocatively sometimes by saying that if we are rational machine, then we
 have to abandon the theology 

Re: TIME warp

2011-05-29 Thread selva
why is there time dilation near a heavy mass ??

On May 17, 12:31 am, selva selvakr1...@gmail.com wrote:
 hi everyone,

 can someone explain me what a time warp is ? or why there is a time
 warp ?
 well yes,it is due to the curvature of the space-time graph near a
 heavy mass.
 but how does it points to the center of the mass,how does it finds
 it..
 and explanation at atomic level plz..

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Re: FREE WILL--is it really free?

2011-05-29 Thread Bruno Marchal


On 29 May 2011, at 20:22, selva kumar wrote:




On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be  
wrote:

Hi selva,


On 16 May 2011, at 16:49, selva wrote:

Considering only our world in the many world interpretation,it is a
separate causal domain..
there is no domain shear between the different domains(different
parallel worlds)..i.e.there is decoherence..
It is known that in our causal domain,there is cause and effect
relationships..
everything is happening because of a cause..everything is as it is
because it ought to be such.
There is a grand flow in the varying positions of atoms constituting
the universe..
If this is right,

This can't be right, if we assume that the brain (or whatever  
capable of sustaining consciousness) can be emulated by a Turing  
machine, as most people believe.






then how can we say ,we have free will ?

A determinist theory of free will is possible. What counts is that  
no machine can determine itself completely, so that the determinism  
of his/her behavior is known only by God, not by the machine, nor  
by machine of equivalent complexity.
Now, if you mean that free will is the capacity to disobey to  
arithmetic, then it does not exist, most probably.






why is there binary state at all ?

OK. You could have asked equivalently: why is there natural numbers?  
Logicians have shown last century that this is impossible to answer.  
Actually we need the natural numbers to ask why natural numbers.  
They cannot be recover from any simpler theory. So we have to have  
some faith in them. It is part of the initial postulates.





if there is free will,how can we say everything affects everything ?
why is the 50-50 probability arises ?

Such a probability can be explained by self-duplication. If you are  
a machine, I can scan you (in principle) and duplicate you in two  
different places. You cannot predict in advance what will be your  
subjective experience after the duplication. BTW, this can be used  
to explain that free-will is not explainable by the use of  
indeterminacy.





why is there probability functions at all ?

Assuming we are digital machines, the answer is that the reality of  
realities is very huge. There is an infinity of computations going  
through your actual state of mind, and computer science explains why  
no machine can know which computations, nor even which sheaf of  
computations support it. There is automatically a statistics for the  
observable.





If the positions of the atoms in my mind(my thoughts) now affect the
positions of the atoms in your brain(your thoughts) ,then does it mean
you don't have a free will ?

Why? On the contrary. To have free will you must have some ability  
to make change around you. You certainly need some amount of  
determinacy.


can i argue that the my ability to make change around me arises from  
the changes around me..
you are now thinking what you are thinking only because i asked you  
thisthat is,with your so called ability i am changing some  
thing,and that changed things gives you the ability to change things  
around you..so going backwards..(events are affected only by the  
past occurences in the cone).wont we come to a single cause?


Yes. Assuming we are machine, elementary arithmetic is enough. And we  
cannot justify this with less than arithmetic, making it a theory of  
everything. The Pythagoreans were right, after all. They are redeemed  
by Church thesis.








Is our consciousness part of the grand consciousness (the universe).

If by universe you mean physical universe, it is not clear if that  
exist. Strictly speaking it is an open problem. With mechanism we  
can say that there are many dreams, and we can say that some dreams  
glue well together to form shared dreams. But it is not known if  
they glue so well as to define a singular physical universe, or even  
just a singular physical multiverse. Extremely hard question.





Are we like the white cells(individually conscious) in our body,to the
universe..?

You might be naive about we, body and universe. No problem, it  
is a tradition since theology has been abandon to politics 1500  
years ago, in Occident. (Closure of Plato Academy in Athena, about  
525 after JC).




Then above all,the real question is why is there parallel worlds at
all ?

If you accept the idea that your brain can be simulated at some  
correct level of substitution (so that you would survive a digital  
brain substitution), then the additive and multiplicative structure  
of numbers defines a vast block mindscape, containing many dreams  
(as seen from inside). Some dreams glue and generate sharable (among  
collectivities of universal numbers) deep histories, which are seen  
as universe appearance from their points views. The physical realm  
does not disappear, but is secondary to the numbers dreams. The  
physical realm is still fundamental, but it is epistemological, not  
ontological.
You might read the shortest 

Re: FREE WILL--is it really free?

2011-05-29 Thread meekerdb




On 29 May 2011, at 20:22, selva kumar wrote:




On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be 
mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:


Hi selva,


On 16 May 2011, at 16:49, selva wrote:


If the positions of the atoms in my mind(my thoughts) now
affect the
positions of the atoms in your brain(your thoughts) ,then
does it mean
you don't have a free will ?


Why? On the contrary. To have free will you must have some
ability to make change around you. You certainly need some amount
of determinacy.

can i argue that the my ability to make change around me arises
from the changes around me..

you are now thinking what you are thinking only because i asked you 
thisthat is,with your so called ability i am changing some 
thing,and that changed things gives you the ability to change things 
around you..so going backwards..(events are affected only by the past 
occurences in the cone).wont we come to a single cause?


Not if there is quantum randomness; in which case there will be multiple 
causes.  But if you subscribe to the multiple worlds interpretation then 
the evolution will be deterministic but what is meant by you will be 
uncertain.


Brent

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