Re: Movie Graph Argument

2011-12-21 Thread Russell Standish
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 09:06:10PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 20 Dec 2011, at 01:03, Russell Standish wrote: Even though the parts may be distributed across multiple branches of the MV, and have different counterfactual histories? ? What is a branch of a W in a MW if you allow

Re: Movie Graph Argument

2011-12-21 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Dec 20, 1:13 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/20/2011 5:14 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Dec 19, 6:08 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net  wrote: On 12/19/2011 2:28 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Dec 19, 4:26 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net    wrote: But I think that's where

Re: Movie Graph Argument

2011-12-21 Thread David Nyman
On 21 December 2011 09:58, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: Because Maudlin assumes a single universe physics, Where? It assumes only the Turing emulabilty. Its the only way to get inactive parts, and so force the absurdum. The assumption is not explicit in Maudlin's work, but

Re: Movie Graph Argument

2011-12-21 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2011/12/21 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 21 Dec 2011, at 14:06, David Nyman wrote: On 21 December 2011 09:58, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: Because Maudlin assumes a single universe physics, Where? It assumes only the Turing emulabilty. Its the only way to get

Re: Movie Graph Argument

2011-12-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 21 Dec 2011, at 10:58, Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 09:06:10PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 20 Dec 2011, at 01:03, Russell Standish wrote: Even though the parts may be distributed across multiple branches of the MV, and have different counterfactual histories? ?

Re: Movie Graph Argument

2011-12-21 Thread meekerdb
On 12/21/2011 6:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Dec 2011, at 14:06, David Nyman wrote: On 21 December 2011 09:58, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: Because Maudlin assumes a single universe physics, Where? It assumes only the Turing emulabilty. Its the only way to get

Re: Movie Graph Argument

2011-12-21 Thread meekerdb
On 12/21/2011 8:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: This may require the input of random numbers on the synapses. This, I think, would directly contradict computationalism (unless you mean pseudo-random, or the randomness recoverable by the comp indeterminacy). By definition of correct level you

Re: Movie Graph Argument

2011-12-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
Quentin, I answer your posts. On 19 Dec 2011, at 20:16, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2011/12/19 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net On 12/19/2011 5:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: In this case, the distinction is more than merely linguistic. Often when you say PA is conscious, I translate your comment as

Re: Movie Graph Argument

2011-12-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 21 Dec 2011, at 18:10, meekerdb wrote: On 12/21/2011 6:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Dec 2011, at 14:06, David Nyman wrote: On 21 December 2011 09:58, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: Because Maudlin assumes a single universe physics, Where? It assumes only the

Re: Movie Graph Argument

2011-12-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 21 Dec 2011, at 18:30, meekerdb wrote: On 12/21/2011 8:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: This may require the input of random numbers on the synapses. This, I think, would directly contradict computationalism (unless you mean pseudo-random, or the randomness recoverable by the comp

Re: Movie Graph Argument

2011-12-21 Thread smitra
Citeren Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: On 21 Dec 2011, at 14:06, David Nyman wrote: On 21 December 2011 09:58, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: Because Maudlin assumes a single universe physics, Where? It assumes only the Turing emulabilty. Its the only way to get

Re: Movie Graph Argument

2011-12-21 Thread meekerdb
On 12/21/2011 10:35 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Dec 2011, at 18:30, meekerdb wrote: On 12/21/2011 8:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: This may require the input of random numbers on the synapses. This, I think, would directly contradict computationalism (unless you mean pseudo-random, or the

Re: Movie Graph Argument

2011-12-21 Thread Russell Standish
On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 01:06:45PM +, David Nyman wrote: Russell, isn't it central to the multiverse view that distinct, univocal observer experiences supervene on each branch? In which case, isn't it correct to apply Maudlin's argument to each branch separately? If so, to oppose the

Re: Movie Graph Argument

2011-12-21 Thread Russell Standish
On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 05:49:35PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: ...snip... Are you arguing that comp does not entail the principle 323? I don't believe so. So you agree that comp entails 323? This makes even harder my understanding of your refutation attempt. Maybe you haven't explained

Re: Movie Graph Argument

2011-12-21 Thread David Nyman
On 21 December 2011 22:24, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: Its a fair point, but let me answer this way: The observer experience must be of a single branch - this is effectively the definition of a branch. However, this is not the same as saying the observer must supervene on a

Re: Movie Graph Argument

2011-12-21 Thread Russell Standish
On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 02:44:13AM +, David Nyman wrote: Thanks for this Russell, but I'm still puzzled. As you say above, in a MW version of Maudlin's argument supervenience must be across all branches that make up an observer moment. These branches are in effect fungible, or