On the need for perspective and relations in modelling the mind

2012-12-05 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Bruno Marchal Indeed, we can not code for [1p]. But we need not abandon itr entirely, as you seem to have done, and as cognitive theory has done. We can replace [1p] by its actions - those of perception, in which terms are relational (subject: object). You seem to deal with everything

Re: a paper on Leibnizian mathematical ideas

2012-12-05 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King I don't recall ever finding a mistake in Leibniz's metaphysics, although there is a serious shortcoming in not completely defining what a substance is. How far down the scale of maginification must or can or should one go ? Leibniz seems to invite study, as he appearsd to

Re: a paper on Leibnizian mathematical ideas

2012-12-05 Thread Stephen P. King
On 12/5/2012 5:15 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King I don't recall ever finding a mistake in Leibniz's metaphysics, Dear Roger, I found his need to appeal to God to solve the PEH problem to be a big mistake, but at least he had a good excuse and did work out many of the needed

Re: The final solution - How comp could work in the brain

2012-12-05 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, December 1, 2012 6:19:51 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: The final solution - How comp could work in the brain Peirce is known to have borrowed some ideas from Locke, the most likely one being Locke's philosophy of mind, namely that the mind is a blank slate and that all

Re: Re: Re: One cannot have 1p if there is no observer.

2012-12-05 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Richard Ruquist You still don't understand inextended variables. Since 1p is inextended (it involves consciousness), 1p has no size, so it could include an infinite number of universes. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/5/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody

Re: Re: Re: One cannot have 1p if there is no observer.

2012-12-05 Thread Richard Ruquist
Roger does not understand my argument that the monads of string theory are effectively inextended despite they being uniformly distributed throughout the universe at a density of 10^90/cc because each monad maps the entire universe instantly and they collectively form a BEC. In addition they

Re: Against Mechanism

2012-12-05 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:24 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: a observer who did not want to play games and honestly wanted to convey the maximum amount of information would NOT say from a first person view I saw W or M. And I meant that me would say I saw M AND me would say I saw W.

Re: Re: The final solution - How comp could work in the brain

2012-12-05 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Craig Weinberg As I said, the numbers of comp are converted to analog form signals and interfaced to the brain. The numbers in time are essentially waveforms, even if they are pretty erratic. You output the numbers through a f/2 filter as voltages and supply those to the brain. [Roger

Re: Re: Re: Re: One cannot have 1p if there is no observer.

2012-12-05 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Richard Ruquist You still don't understand. You're confusing the map (the monads, which you can think of as ideas or information) with the territory (physical space). It is the corporeal bodies of substances that the monads refer to, not the monads themselves, are distributed in space,

Re: Re: a paper on Leibnizian mathematical ideas

2012-12-05 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King God isn't artificially inserted into L's metaphysics, it's a necessary part, because everything else (the monads) afre blind and passive. Just as necessary as the One is to Plato's metaphysics. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/5/2012 Forever is a long time,

Fw: Introspection (internal 1p) has been dropped by cognitive science

2012-12-05 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Bruno, I found the quote I had been searching for: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kant-mind/ Kant thought that transcendental arguments were a priori or yielded the a priori in all three ways. Nonetheless, at the heart of this method is inference to the best explanation. When

The two wrong paths of modern cognitive science

2012-12-05 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Bruno, Another quote I can't find is one to the effect that For every complex problem one can usually find simple solutions that are almost always wrong. This is the case with modern cognitive science: 1) It ignored Descartes' two substance (mind and brain) solution to the mind/brain

Re: Re: Re: Re: One cannot have 1p if there is no observer.

2012-12-05 Thread Richard Ruquist
Mapping refers to the perception of the monads. The string theory monads exist in space but have properties that effectively put them outside of spacetime. They are not simply ideas if string theory is correct. On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Richard

Re: Re: a paper on Leibnizian mathematical ideas

2012-12-05 Thread Richard Ruquist
L's monads have perception. They sense the entire universe. On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Stephen P. King God isn't artificially inserted into L's metaphysics, it's a necessary part, because everything else (the monads) afre blind and passive.

Re: Climate change

2012-12-05 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 04 Dec 2012, at 14:43, Telmo Menezes wrote: Dear Bruno, FYI: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080602160845.htm 15 people is not a serious sample, and then, to make it illegal you have to compare with the long-term effect of other activities (alcohol, breathing air in

Re: Against Mechanism

2012-12-05 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:51 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheeler%27s_delayed_choice_experiment:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheeler%27s_delayed_choice_experiment If the experimenters know which slit it goes through, the photon will behave as a

Re: Against Mechanism

2012-12-05 Thread meekerdb
On 12/5/2012 10:53 AM, John Clark wrote: Yes that other photon could give which-way information and if it still exists when its twin hits the photographic plate (or electronic detector) no interference pattern will form. But if quantum erasure is used to destroy the which-way information the

Re: The two wrong paths of modern cognitive science

2012-12-05 Thread Telmo Menezes
Hi Roger, This is the case with modern cognitive science: 1) It ignored Descartes' two substance (mind and brain) solution to the mind/brain problem in favor of treating both substances as material. A common criticism of dualism is the problem of interaction. If mind is outside the

Re: The two wrong paths of modern cognitive science

2012-12-05 Thread Richard Ruquist
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: Hi Roger, This is the case with modern cognitive science: 1) It ignored Descartes' two substance (mind and brain) solution to the mind/brain problem in favor of treating both substances as material. A common

Re: The two wrong paths of modern cognitive science

2012-12-05 Thread Telmo Menezes
Hi Richard, On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 10:13 PM, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: Hi Roger, This is the case with modern cognitive science: 1) It ignored Descartes' two substance (mind and brain)

Re: Re: Re: Re: One cannot have 1p if there is no observer.

2012-12-05 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 12:41:22 PM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Richard Ruquist You still don't understand. You're confusing the map (the monads, which you can think of as ideas or information) with the territory (physical space). It is the corporeal bodies of substances that

Re: a paper on Leibnizian mathematical ideas

2012-12-05 Thread Stephen P. King
On 12/5/2012 12:45 PM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King God isn't artificially inserted into L's metaphysics, it's a necessary part, because everything else (the monads) afre blind and passive. Just as necessary as the One is to Plato's metaphysics. Dear Roger, OK, it is just that

Re: The two wrong paths of modern cognitive science

2012-12-05 Thread Richard Ruquist
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 4:30 PM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: Hi Richard, On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 10:13 PM, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: Hi Roger, This is the case with modern

Re: a paper on Leibnizian mathematical ideas

2012-12-05 Thread Stephen P. King
On 12/5/2012 1:01 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: L's monads have perception. They sense the entire universe. On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Roger Cloughrclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Stephen P. King God isn't artificially inserted into L's metaphysics, it's a necessary part, because everything

Re: a paper on Leibnizian mathematical ideas

2012-12-05 Thread Richard Ruquist
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 7:51 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote: On 12/5/2012 1:01 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: L's monads have perception. They sense the entire universe. On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Stephen P. King God isn't

Re: Against Mechanism

2012-12-05 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 1:41:43 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 12/4/2012 9:14 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 6:27:42 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 12/4/2012 12:32 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 2:52:25 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:

Re: Against Mechanism

2012-12-05 Thread meekerdb
On 12/5/2012 5:17 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 1:41:43 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 12/4/2012 9:14 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 6:27:42 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 12/4/2012 12:32 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On

Re: The two wrong paths of modern cognitive science

2012-12-05 Thread Stephen P. King
On 12/5/2012 3:51 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Hi Roger, This is the case with modern cognitive science: 1) It ignored Descartes' two substance (mind and brain) solution to the mind/brain problem in favor of treating both substances as material. A common criticism of dualism is

Re: a paper on Leibnizian mathematical ideas

2012-12-05 Thread Stephen P. King
On 12/5/2012 8:17 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: I thought we had already agreed that the string monads formed a Stone space in which the monads were totally distinctive.and therefore disconnected. It then becomes a Boolean algebra but at a vastly smaller scale than the atomic scale. Dear Richard,

Re: a paper on Leibnizian mathematical ideas

2012-12-05 Thread Richard Ruquist
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote: On 12/5/2012 8:17 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: I thought we had already agreed that the string monads formed a Stone space in which the monads were totally distinctive.and therefore disconnected. It then becomes a

Re: a paper on Leibnizian mathematical ideas

2012-12-05 Thread Stephen P. King
On 12/5/2012 10:05 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: Monads are not strings. They are compactified dimensions and much smaller than strings which really are waves or fields. If monads were really outside of spacetime they would not influence anything in spacetime., Dear Richard, What are

Re: Against Mechanism

2012-12-05 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 8:51:36 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 12/5/2012 5:17 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 1:41:43 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 12/4/2012 9:14 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 6:27:42 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On

Re: Re: The final solution - How comp could work in the brain

2012-12-05 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 12:35:33 PM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg As I said, the numbers of comp are converted to analog form signals and interfaced to the brain. The numbers in time are essentially waveforms, even if they are pretty erratic. You output the numbers