Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-23 Thread Kim Jones
On 23 Jul 2014, at 4:33 am, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: To be unconscious is not merely to lose the faculties which make our quality of life human, but to lose all faculties. Perhaps, but I doubt that you lose your 'self'. A self is immortal. Just like you wake up from the

Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-23 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 4:16:07 AM UTC-4, Kim Jones wrote: On 23 Jul 2014, at 4:33 am, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: To be unconscious is not merely to lose the faculties which make our quality of life human, but to lose all faculties. Perhaps, but I

CTM and the UDA (again!)

2014-07-23 Thread David Nyman
Recent discussions, mainly with Brent and Bruno, have really got me thinking again about the issues raised by CTM and the UDA. I'll try to summarise some of my thoughts in this post. The first thing to say, I think, is that the assumption of CTM is equivalent to accepting the existence of an

RE: The Higgs and SUSY vs the Multiverse

2014-07-23 Thread John Ross
Yes, in that sense tronnies form protons, just as they form everything else in our Universe. Protons need a lot of tronnies to do what they do. Combinations of hydrogen (one proton) produce helium and the fusion energy of stars. This energy is provided by the approximately 15 gamma ray

Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-23 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 21 Jul 2014, at 18:55, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: OK. So what separates us then, from dolphins and elephants Intelligence I would have said here that what separate us from dolphins and elephants is typically more competence,

Re: The Higgs and SUSY vs the Multiverse

2014-07-23 Thread John Clark
On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: For the purposes of this thread I'm specifically interested in whether the MV opposes supersymmetry in some sense. Not really. If String Theory is true there are at least 10^500 other universes with different laws of physics and maybe a

Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-23 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 22 Jul 2014, at 09:08, Kim Jones wrote: On 22 Jul 2014, at 2:55 am, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: What part of your brain is more evolved than a cat's brain that allows you to say I know? I'm just guessing but maybe the Neocortex because it's the biggest anatomical

Re: The Higgs and SUSY vs the Multiverse

2014-07-23 Thread Richard Ruquist
I hope you are not confusing the MV multiverse with the Everett MWI multiverse It seems that John Clark is. On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 12:24 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: For the purposes of this thread I'm specifically

Re: CTM and the UDA (again!)

2014-07-23 Thread Jesse Mazer
Had some trouble following your post (in part because I don't know all the acronyms), but are you talking about the basic problem of deciding which computations a particular physical process can be said to implement or instantiate? If so, see my post at

Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-23 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 22 Jul 2014, at 18:14, meekerdb wrote: On 7/22/2014 12:08 AM, Kim Jones wrote: On 22 Jul 2014, at 2:55 am, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: What part of your brain is more evolved than a cat's brain that allows you to say I know? I'm just guessing but maybe the Neocortex

Re: The Higgs and SUSY vs the Multiverse

2014-07-23 Thread 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
I like how Max Tegmark calssified the multiverses into level I, II, II, and IV level multiverses. Level I multiverse is other bubble universes existing in our same spacetime  --  that shall we say froze, out from an underlying state of eternal inflation -- and which has a high degree of

Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-23 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 22 Jul 2014, at 20:57, John Mikes wrote: Bruno and Kim: what SELF would you consider in e.g. ants? if we realize the highly merged (individualized?) group-self - the answer is different from taking the present individual (simplified DOWN to functional minimum composition units) 'ant'

Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-23 Thread meekerdb
On 7/23/2014 9:20 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Intelligence is more simple. It is, I think the natural state of the virgin universal machine. What's a UTM with no program? Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe

Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-23 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 23 Jul 2014, at 07:18, Kim Jones wrote: On 23 Jul 2014, at 4:38 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Is the following true: Self-awareness = self-consciousness (?) OK. Both involves the 1p. But the []p gives a notion of 3p self- awareness, plausibly not conscious, like a

Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-23 Thread meekerdb
On 7/23/2014 10:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 22 Jul 2014, at 18:14, meekerdb wrote: On 7/22/2014 12:08 AM, Kim Jones wrote: On 22 Jul 2014, at 2:55 am, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: What part of your brain is more evolved than a cat's brain

Re: Gödel of the Gaps

2014-07-23 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 22 Jul 2014, at 20:18, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:56:26 PM UTC-4, yanniru wrote: PGC, I am not being critical of Bruno. I just do not understand what he is saying. My understanding is that if comp is correct, it is both 3p and 1p correct. Bruno's argument to

Re: Gödel of the Gaps

2014-07-23 Thread Richard Ruquist
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 2:36 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 22 Jul 2014, at 20:18, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:56:26 PM UTC-4, yanniru wrote: PGC, I am not being critical of Bruno. I just do not understand what he is saying. My understanding is

Re: It Knows That It Knows

2014-07-23 Thread David Nyman
On 23 July 2014 18:25, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: You miss, and perhaps David's too (?), the fact that above a threshold of relative complexity, the lower level is not relevant for the description of the higher level. It would be like asking why Obama has been elected?, and getting

Re: The Higgs and SUSY vs the Multiverse

2014-07-23 Thread LizR
On 24 July 2014 04:42, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: I hope you are not confusing the MV multiverse with the Everett MWI multiverse It seems that John Clark is. There should be an Everett style multiverse embedded in the string landscape universe. That is, one in 10^500 of the

Re: The Higgs and SUSY vs the Multiverse

2014-07-23 Thread Richard Ruquist
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 5:53 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 24 July 2014 04:42, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: I hope you are not confusing the MV multiverse with the Everett MWI multiverse It seems that John Clark is. There should be an Everett style multiverse embedded

Re: Gödel of the Gaps

2014-07-23 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 2:36:24 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 22 Jul 2014, at 20:18, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:56:26 PM UTC-4, yanniru wrote: PGC, I am not being critical of Bruno. I just do not understand what he is saying. My understanding is that