Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, February 11, 2015, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: If you define increased intelligence as decreased probability of having a false belief on any randomly chosen proposition, then

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 5:57 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: I call this the Cyberman (or Mr Spock) problem. The Cybermen in Doctor Who are logical and unemotional, yet they wish to convert the rest of the world to be like them. Why? Without emotion they have no reason to do that, or

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 6:40 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/10/2015 8:47 AM, Jason Resch wrote: If you define increased intelligence as decreased probability of having a false belief on any randomly chosen proposition, then superintelligences will be wrong on almost nothing,

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Wednesday, February 11, 2015, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','stath...@gmail.com'); wrote: On Wednesday, February 11, 2015, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com

Re: What over 170 people think about machines that think

2015-02-10 Thread meekerdb
On 2/10/2015 5:29 PM, LizR wrote: On 5 February 2015 at 09:19, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/4/2015 11:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 03 Feb 2015, at 20:13, Jason Resch wrote: I agree with John. If consciousness had no third-person

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Samiya Illias
On 11-Feb-2015, at 6:40 am, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com wrote: I can´t even enumerate the number of ways in which that article is wrong. I stopped reading after the following parochial imbecility I don't see

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Wednesday, February 11, 2015, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jasonre...@gmail.com'); wrote: a true super intelligence may never perform any actions, as its trapped in never being

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com wrote: I can´t even enumerate the number of ways in which that article is wrong. I stopped reading after the following parochial imbecility I don't see Christ's redemption limited to human beings. First of all, any intelligent robot

Re: Cosmology from Quantum Potential

2015-02-10 Thread LizR
Is there a simple explanation for dummies of what an infinitely old universe might entail - is this something like eternal inflation, or an infinitely protracted collapse preceding the apparent big bang, or something else? On 11 February 2015 at 10:41, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Very

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 4:47 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: If you define increased intelligence as decreased probability of having a false belief on any randomly chosen proposition, then superintelligences will be wrong on almost nothing, Not for a finite intelligence because

Re: What over 170 people think about machines that think

2015-02-10 Thread LizR
On 5 February 2015 at 09:19, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/4/2015 11:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 03 Feb 2015, at 20:13, Jason Resch wrote: I agree with John. If consciousness had no third-person observable effects, it would be an epiphenomenon. And then there is no way to

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: a true super intelligence may never perform any actions, as its trapped in never being certain (and knowing it never can be certain) that its actions are right. Why in the world would a intelligent agent need to be

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Samiya Illias
IBM's Watson: http://bigthink.com/videos/ibms-watson-cognitive-or-sentient-2 Samiya On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 9:47 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: If you define increased intelligence as decreased probability of having a false belief on any randomly chosen proposition, then

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 4:47 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: If you define increased intelligence as decreased probability of having a false belief on any randomly chosen proposition, then superintelligences will be wrong on almost nothing, and their beliefs will converge as their

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Jason Resch
If you define increased intelligence as decreased probability of having a false belief on any randomly chosen proposition, then superintelligences will be wrong on almost nothing, and their beliefs will converge as their intelligence rises. Therefore nearly all superintelligences will operate

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Alberto G. Corona
I can´t even enumerate the number of ways in which that article is wrong. First of all, any intelligent robot MUST have a religion in order to act in any way. A set of core beliefs. A non intelligent robot need them too: It is the set of constants. The intelligent robot can rewrite their

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-10 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 10 Feb 2015, at 08:21, Samiya Illias wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 12:50 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 08 Feb 2015, at 05:07, Samiya Illias wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 04 Feb 2015, at 17:14, Samiya Illias

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 4:47 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: If you define increased intelligence as decreased probability

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 4:47 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: If you define increased intelligence as decreased probability of having a false belief on any randomly chosen proposition, then

Cosmology from Quantum Potential

2015-02-10 Thread Platonist Guitar Cowboy
Cosmology from quantum potential Ahmed Farag Ali http://arxiv.org/find/gr-qc/1/au:+Ali_A/0/1/0/all/0/1, Saurya Das http://arxiv.org/find/gr-qc/1/au:+Das_S/0/1/0/all/0/1 (Submitted on 11 Apr 2014 (v1 http://arxiv.org/abs/1404.3093v1), last revised 29 Dec 2014 (this version, v3)) It was shown

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 12:59 PM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 4:47 PM, Jason Resch

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 9:07 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 12:59 PM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Telmo Menezes

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Wednesday, February 11, 2015, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: If you define increased intelligence as decreased probability of having a false belief on any randomly chosen proposition, then superintelligences will be wrong on almost nothing, and their beliefs will converge as their

Re: Cosmology from Quantum Potential

2015-02-10 Thread LizR
Very interesting, if true. (So they've removed that pesky factor of 10 to the power of 120 from the calculations...!?) On 11 February 2015 at 10:34, Platonist Guitar Cowboy multiplecit...@gmail.com wrote: Cosmology from quantum potential Ahmed Farag Ali

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 8:12 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 4:47 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: If you define increased intelligence as decreased probability of having a false belief on any randomly chosen proposition, then superintelligences

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 11:35 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/10/2015 5:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 6:40 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/10/2015 8:47 AM, Jason Resch wrote: If you define increased intelligence as decreased probability

Re: What over 170 people think about machines that think

2015-02-10 Thread Jason Resch
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 12:03 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/10/2015 9:40 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 8:35 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/10/2015 5:29 PM, LizR wrote: On 5 February 2015 at 09:19, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 8:15 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, February 11, 2015, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, February 11, 2015, Jason Resch

Re: What over 170 people think about machines that think

2015-02-10 Thread Jason Resch
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 12:23 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/10/2015 10:11 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 12:03 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/10/2015 9:40 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 8:35 PM, meekerdb

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread LizR
On 11 February 2015 at 18:35, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/10/2015 5:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 6:40 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Were all your values set at birth and driven by biology, or are some of your values based on what you've since

Re: What over 170 people think about machines that think

2015-02-10 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 8:35 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/10/2015 5:29 PM, LizR wrote: On 5 February 2015 at 09:19, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/4/2015 11:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 03 Feb 2015, at 20:13, Jason Resch wrote: I agree with John. If

Re: What over 170 people think about machines that think

2015-02-10 Thread meekerdb
On 2/10/2015 9:40 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 8:35 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/10/2015 5:29 PM, LizR wrote: On 5 February 2015 at 09:19, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread meekerdb
On 2/10/2015 5:47 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 5:57 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com mailto:lizj...@gmail.com wrote: I call this the Cyberman (or Mr Spock) problem. The Cybermen in Doctor Who are logical and unemotional, yet they wish to convert the rest of the world to

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread meekerdb
On 2/10/2015 6:15 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: The implication is that if you believe in universal personhood then even if you are selfish you will be motivated towards charity. If humans are any indication, a super-intelligence will be incredibly good at rationalizing what it wants to do.

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 8:19 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: a true super intelligence may never perform any actions, as its trapped in never being certain (and knowing it never can be certain) that its

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread LizR
On 11 February 2015 at 17:37, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 11-Feb-2015, at 6:40 am, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com wrote: I can´t even enumerate the number of ways in which that article is wrong. I

Re: What over 170 people think about machines that think

2015-02-10 Thread meekerdb
On 2/10/2015 10:38 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 12:23 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/10/2015 10:11 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 12:03 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread LizR
On 11 February 2015 at 18:29, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/10/2015 5:47 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 5:57 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: I call this the Cyberman (or Mr Spock) problem. The Cybermen in Doctor Who are logical and unemotional, yet they wish

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread meekerdb
On 2/10/2015 5:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 6:40 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/10/2015 8:47 AM, Jason Resch wrote: If you define increased intelligence as decreased probability of having a false belief on any

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread meekerdb
On 2/10/2015 9:55 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 11:35 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/10/2015 5:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 6:40 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net

Re: What over 170 people think about machines that think

2015-02-10 Thread meekerdb
On 2/10/2015 10:11 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 12:03 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/10/2015 9:40 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 8:35 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread Jason Resch
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 1:44 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 11 February 2015 at 18:29, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/10/2015 5:47 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 5:57 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: I call this the Cyberman (or Mr Spock) problem. The

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread LizR
I call this the Cyberman (or Mr Spock) problem. The Cybermen in Doctor Who are logical and unemotional, yet they wish to convert the rest of the world to be like them. Why? Without emotion they have no reason to do that, or anything else. (Likewise Mr Spock, except as we know he only repressed his

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-10 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
I am just reading his stuff, slowly, so I cannot answer your mathematicalism versus arithmaticism, well enough for a discussion. I could provide a couple links to his papers (Maybe 2 or 3?) that may highlight your question. However, if you think it might harm the flow of discussion here, I

Re: evangelizing robots

2015-02-10 Thread meekerdb
On 2/10/2015 8:47 AM, Jason Resch wrote: If you define increased intelligence as decreased probability of having a false belief on any randomly chosen proposition, then superintelligences will be wrong on almost nothing, and their beliefs will converge as their intelligence rises. Therefore