Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 04 Mar 2015, at 02:22, meekerdb wrote: On 3/3/2015 4:24 PM, LizR wrote: On 3 March 2015 at 15:33, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: Also see http://www.arxiv.org/abs/physics/0001020 I've just started reading that paper, and I have a (minor) problem with this statement:

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 04 Mar 2015, at 01:36, Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Mar 03, 2015 at 09:16:28PM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: But we choose the measurement operator in a classical context. The problem arises when we attempt to construct that classical context from the uninterpreted quantum formalism. The

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 04 Mar 2015, at 02:11, meekerdb wrote: On 3/3/2015 12:54 PM, LizR wrote: So are these basises (bases?) something real, or just a sort of convention like lines of latitude? In the original theory and in MWI they are conventions. If they're a convention why would physics care about

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Mar 2015, at 04:52, meekerdb wrote: On 3/2/2015 5:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: Maybe that's enough though, to implement a brain and observer, that they stop interfering in at least one basis (assuming they're not contradictory, might all bases exist?) Bases are just coordinate systems

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Mar 2015, at 03:42, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: http://www.hpcoders.com.au/nothing.html: contains link to a free PDF download, and otherwise links to paid versions (eg dead tree, Kindle). You want appendix D.

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Mar 2015, at 03:18, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 3:46 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Do superpositions still occur in the MWI? I thought they were supposed to be branches (which are perhaps able to recombine) ? In the MWI a branching can only occur if there is a

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Mar 2015, at 05:33, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: If there is something to understand about why X happened, if there is a reason for it, then X is not random. You've got to think what random means. Counter-example: step 3 of UDA.

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Mar 2015, at 04:58, meekerdb wrote: On 3/2/2015 6:18 PM, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 3:46 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Do superpositions still occur in the MWI? I thought they were supposed to be branches (which are perhaps able to recombine) ? In the MWI a

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Mar 2015, at 23:56, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2015 2:18 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2015 1:00 PM, LizR wrote: On 27 February 2015 at 16:20, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote: Jason Resch wrote: There's no

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 13 Feb 2015, at 20:40, Samiya Illias wrote: My faith encourages me to pursue the sciences, to use my faculties and intelligence for reason and logic, and the study of the sciences is not doubt. Doubt is the lack of faith! I am not sure I commented on this. It might be the heart of the

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Mar 2015, at 23:18, Bruce Kellett wrote: meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2015 1:00 PM, LizR wrote: On 27 February 2015 at 16:20, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote: Jason Resch wrote: There's no problem defining probability. There

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread meekerdb
On 04 Mar 2015, at 01:36, Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Mar 03, 2015 at 09:16:28PM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: But we choose the measurement operator in a classical context. The problem arises when we attempt to construct that classical context from the uninterpreted quantum formalism.

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread LizR
On 5 March 2015 at 09:32, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 3/4/2015 7:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: If we are in a simulated world, we are in all simulated world, some normal, or some perverse bostromian (made by our normal descendents who would like to fake our reality). We can test

Re: The preferred basis problem

2015-03-04 Thread meekerdb
On 3/4/2015 2:17 AM, LizR wrote: For any other bears of little brain who don't grok this (unless I'm the only one) I found this slightly ungrammatical layman's language summary helpful. http://www.thestargarden.co.uk/PreferredBasisProblem.html I have to admit that I don't like the idea of

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread meekerdb
On 3/4/2015 7:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: If we are in a simulated world, we are in all simulated world, some normal, or some perverse bostromian (made by our normal descendents who would like to fake our reality). We can test computationalism V perverse bostromism, if you want. Why should

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread LizR
On 5 March 2015 at 04:37, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: So it is not the state of the halting problem which are physical, it is the physical which needs to be redefined in term of a measure (or the logic of the measure one, of that measure) on the halting programs. Yes, that's what

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread meekerdb
On 3/4/2015 10:00 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: It seems that this kind of information theoretic question might be one that mind-as-computation could address: Why is it we can only think of the world in these limited, classical ways (if indeed that's the case)? For example we do all our

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread meekerdb
On 3/4/2015 10:21 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: The SWE contains observables (operators) such as position, energy and momentum and so on. What bases do we choose for these operators? The default, that no one ever questions (to the extent that I doubt that many people realize that it is an arbitrary

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-04 Thread meekerdb
On 3/4/2015 10:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Feb 2015, at 20:40, Samiya Illias wrote: My faith encourages me to pursue the sciences, to use my faculties and intelligence for reason and logic, and the study of the sciences is not doubt. Doubt is the lack of faith! I am not sure I

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-04 Thread John Mikes
This and the next post of yours are classic. In the next one you cast doubt on our space-based worldview - I was waiting for the next step: the TIME_BASED doubt. * Bruno quoted Samiya concluding: *Doubt is the lack of faith!* - and I could not keep my agnostic mind from reversing this into:

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread John Clark
On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 3:46 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: there is no non-local influence in the violation of Bell's inequality. Maybe, if so then things are not realistic or not deterministic or both. Or the relevant laws of physics are time symmetric. It is generally assumed

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread meekerdb
On 3/4/2015 4:45 PM, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 3:46 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com mailto:lizj...@gmail.com wrote: there is no non-local influence in the violation of Bell's inequality. Maybe, if so then things are not realistic or not deterministic or

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread Russell Standish
On Wed, Mar 04, 2015 at 12:39:03PM -0800, meekerdb wrote: But it isn't just a matter of what the observer is interested in. He might well (as a classical physicist) be interested in the position AND momentum of a particle - but nature forbids him defining a basis in which he can have both.

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread Bruce Kellett
Russell Standish wrote: On Wed, Mar 04, 2015 at 12:39:03PM -0800, meekerdb wrote: But it isn't just a matter of what the observer is interested in. He might well (as a classical physicist) be interested in the position AND momentum of a particle - but nature forbids him defining a basis in

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread Russell Standish
On Wed, Mar 04, 2015 at 06:06:35PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: My opinion has not much changed since the last critics. It is a very nice derivation, but too much quick at some step, assuming the reals, derivative, effectivity, etc. It go in the right conceptual direction, (from the comp

Re: Philip Ball, MWI skeptic

2015-03-04 Thread Bruce Kellett
meekerdb wrote: One reason may be that the primary interactions important for life are more position than momentum dependent. A tiger can only eat you if you and the tiger are near each other. If there were beings that lived in orbit then perhaps they would have evolved to directly

The preferred basis problem

2015-03-04 Thread LizR
If anyone else doesn't grok what this is all about, I found this explanation in layman's language helped firm things up. It's just a simple (and slightly ungrammatical) overview -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe

The preferred basis problem

2015-03-04 Thread LizR
For any other bears of little brain who don't grok this (unless I'm the only one) I found this slightly ungrammatical layman's language summary helpful. http://www.thestargarden.co.uk/PreferredBasisProblem.html I have to admit that I don't like the idea of turning into a jellyfish. (Didn't that