Re: [Fwd: NDPR David Shoemaker, Personal Identity and Ethics: A Brief Introduction]

2009-03-13 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi Bruno, thanks for your interesting answer, I have some questions though. course, as I said, this will depend of what you mean by you. In case you accept the idea of surviving with amnesia, you can even get to a state where you know you are immortal, because your immortality is a past

Re: Mikovi´c's Temporal Platonic Metaphysics

2009-03-11 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi, this paper (Mikovic) is unfortunately not very good. I quote: There are strong arguments that the human mind is not computable, based on Goedel’s theorems in logic, see [3]. 3 refers to Penrose's Emperor's new mind. I don't think that I have to comment this fallacy on this list. (Bruno

Re: [Fwd: NDPR David Shoemaker, Personal Identity and Ethics: A Brief Introduction]

2009-03-11 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi Bruno, 1-OM, (by step 7, correspond to infinity (aleph_zero) of 3-OMs, themselves embedded in bigger infinities (2^aleph_zero) of computations going trough their corresponding states. Between you-in-the-living room, and you-in-the-kitchen there is already a continuum of

Re: Wolfram Alpha

2009-03-11 Thread Günther Greindl
Kim, great post, thanks! You may enjoy this TED talk: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html As to your laughing friend, I also know some such people, they have in truth not understood what science is about: asking questions, being critical

Re: [Fwd: NDPR David Shoemaker, Personal Identity and Ethics: A Brief Introduction]

2009-03-10 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi Bruno, The idea was that the numbers encode moments which don't have successors (the guy who transports), that's why there exist alien-OMs encoded in numbers which destroy all the machines (if we assume that arithmetic is consistent). Hmmm (Not to clear for me, I guess I miss

Re: language, cloning and thought experiments

2009-03-07 Thread Günther Greindl
Stathis, Brent, There are two copies of me in perfect lockstep, A1 and A2. I'm one of these copies and not the other (though I don't know which). Suppose I'm A1 and I decide to teleport 100km away. That means A1 disappears and a new copy, B, appears 100m away. I'm happy, since I feel I've

Re: The Amoeba's Secret - English Version started

2009-03-06 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi Colin, the problem is that while the _ideal_ of science is rationality, it is not yet fully institutionalized (can it ever be?) and people still harbor a lot of irrationality personally (scientists often have the strangest beliefs outside their speciality

Re: language, cloning and thought experiments

2009-03-06 Thread Günther Greindl
Which I? Aren't you concerned that you would press the button - and vanish? Brent The psychological continuer - the one who remembers having pressed the button but with +5 dollars on his account. @Stathis: would you really do this (press the button, also in the absoute measure scenario)?

Re: [Fwd: NDPR David Shoemaker, Personal Identity and Ethics: A Brief Introduction]

2009-03-06 Thread Günther Greindl
Bruno, My idea was rather that the instantiations would not correspond to numbers in the first place But that would violate the comp assumption. No, you still misunderstand me ;-) not correspond in the sense of non-existing, not in the sense of existing but not number. - that is why the

Re: [Fwd: NDPR David Shoemaker, Personal Identity and Ethics: A Brief Introduction]

2009-03-06 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi Bruno, With COMP it is not so clear. explicit appeal to self-consistency (= the move from Bp to Bp Dt; the Dt suppresses the cul-de-sac). With comp, to believe in a next instant or in a successor state is already based on an act of faith. Please bear in mind that I have not yet

Re: [Fwd: NDPR David Shoemaker, Personal Identity and Ethics: A Brief Introduction]

2009-03-05 Thread Günther Greindl
HI Bruno, Indeed, that would be like if a number could make disappear another number. Even a God cannot do that! The idea would be rather that some continuations would correspond to non-existent numbers, like, say, the natural number between 3 and 4. I am not sure I understand. If the

Re: [Fwd: NDPR David Shoemaker, Personal Identity and Ethics: A Brief Introduction]

2009-03-05 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi Stathis, It is at least conceivable that the collection of particles that is me could undergo some environmental interaction such that *all* the following entangled branches decohere into states that do *not* map to the emergent class of me, being conscious. Then I would be dead. It

Re: [Fwd: NDPR David Shoemaker, Personal Identity and Ethics: A Brief Introduction]

2009-03-04 Thread Günther Greindl
Stathis, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Imagine the sequence: Scan - Annihilate - Signal - Reconstitute The no-cul-de-sac hypothesis is false if you allow that there is some means of destroying all copies in the multiverse. But there is probably no such means, no matter how advanced the

Re: [Fwd: NDPR David Shoemaker, Personal Identity and Ethics: A Brief Introduction]

2009-03-04 Thread Günther Greindl
Bruno, Indeed, that would be like if a number could make disappear another number. Even a God cannot do that! The idea would be rather that some continuations would correspond to non-existent numbers, like, say, the natural number between 3 and 4. Cheers, Günther

Re: [Fwd: NDPR David Shoemaker, Personal Identity and Ethics: A Brief Introduction]

2009-03-03 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi, better: this is just the usual comp-suicide self-selection (assuming of course we can really kill the copies, which is in itself not an obvious proposition). I have been thinking along these lines lately, in a somewhat different context: the teleportation with annihilation

Re: [Fwd: NDPR David Shoemaker, Personal Identity and Ethics: A Brief Introduction]

2009-03-01 Thread Günther Greindl
Stathis, Bruno, It leads to a very complex question: should we allow people to torture their doppelganger, for example as a ritual or sexual practice? Of course not without their consent, given that the golden ethical rule with comp is don't do to the other what the other does not want you

Re: AUDA Page

2009-03-01 Thread Günther Greindl
Hello, have incorporated most of Bruno's change wishes: http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list/web/auda Best Wishes, Günther --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post

Re: [Fwd: NDPR David Shoemaker, Personal Identity and Ethics: A Brief Introduction]

2009-02-27 Thread Günther Greindl
Bruno, List, in awaked state. Yet I do distinguish dying and forgetting. Let us say that we have a measure of continuation (of psychological) identity from 1 to 0, where 1=full continuation and 0=death, and we apply this measure from one OM to the next. Then forgetting would be everything

Re: [Fwd: NDPR David Shoemaker, Personal Identity and Ethics: A Brief Introduction]

2009-02-27 Thread Günther Greindl
Stathis, List, if a backup was made an hour ago, since I (the presently speaking I) will not be able to anticipate any future experiences. Only if there As Bruno said in a previous post, what we should care about in personal survival is not concrete memories (although memories are essential

Re: [Fwd: NDPR David Shoemaker, Personal Identity and Ethics: A Brief Introduction]

2009-02-27 Thread Günther Greindl
John Mikes wrote: Brent: who is making that 'backup' or 'replica' of you? and why? It is only a thought experiment to make clear what we care about regarding personal identity. And if computationalism is true, this thought experiment will be practically quite relevant in the near(?) future

Re: [Fwd: NDPR David Shoemaker, Personal Identity and Ethics: A Brief Introduction]

2009-02-26 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi, Personal identity and memory could be a useful fiction for living. Here I was alluding to possible deeper sense of the self, which makes me conceive that indeed there is only one person playing a trick to itself. Like if our bodies where just disconnected windows giving to that unique

Re: language, cloning and thought experiments

2009-02-24 Thread Günther Greindl
Jack, Wei Dai, machines are invented, there will be a much greater selection pressure towards U=M*Q. But given that U=Q is closer to the reality today, I'm not sure what good it would do to taking a stand against QS/QI. To translate: U=M*Q is 3rd person POV (hypothetical; viewed from

Re: AUDA (was David Shoemaker, Personal Identity)

2009-02-24 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi, I would say the Universal Soul. To be the ONE? The difficulty is that Plotinus is not always clear. I go now from my reading of mystical texts, not from the arithmetic interpretation - and here mystics often report feeling at one with the universe, everything etc. I would say that

Re: AUDA Page

2009-02-22 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi Bruno, will incorporate your changes as soon as time permits :-) Best Wishes, Günther Bruno Marchal wrote: Hi Günther, Nice work Günther. Now my comment is longer than I wish. I really would insist on one change. See (**) below. On 16 Feb 2009, at 22:54, Günther Greindl wrote

Re: [Fwd: NDPR David Shoemaker, Personal Identity and Ethics: A Brief Introduction]

2009-02-22 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi Stathis, Bruno, List, the copy can be you in deeper and deeper senses (roughly speaking up to the unspeakable you = ONE). I talk here on the first person you. It is infinite and unnameable. Here computer science can makes those term (like unnameable) much more precise. I don't see how

AUDA Page

2009-02-16 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi guys, I finally got around to writing the AUDA references page: http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list/web/auda Comments welcome. Cheers, Günther --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups

Re: continuity - cloning

2009-02-12 Thread Günther Greindl
to Will Riker on Star Trek: TNG. -- Günther Greindl Department of Philosophy of Science University of Vienna guenther.grei...@univie.ac.at Blog: http://www.complexitystudies.org/ Thesis: http://www.complexitystudies.org/proposal

Re: AB continuity

2009-02-11 Thread Günther Greindl
Jack, There are some people who will, but relatively few. That is what counts for QS to be invalid. Hmm, that does not make QS invalid (see Quentin and Jonathan's posts for my views on the issue, they have expressed everything clearly), and in fact you have already conceded QI (by

Re: adult vs. child

2009-02-10 Thread Günther Greindl
I'm with Mike and Brent. Bruno, giving A1 and A2 mirrors which would show different stuff violates Stathis' assumption of running the _same_ computation - you can't go out of the system. And your remark that we should differentiate infinite identical platonic computations confuses me - it

Re: Bruno's Brussels Thesis English Version Chap 1 (trial translation)

2009-02-10 Thread Günther Greindl
Kim, Günther recommends recently the book Eveything Must Go by Ladyman et al. This looks like heavy going but seems like a good and a relevant tome to get into, possibly circling around the mechanist idea. Do you also recommend it? The book does not concern the mechanist thesis, there

Re: COMP, Quantum Logic and Gleason's Theorem

2009-02-10 Thread Günther Greindl
Dear John, JM: 'evolutionary' is 'relational' anyway originated in 'human mind capabilities' - D.Bohm: there are no numbers in nature. (Not arguing against Bruno, who IMO stands for nature is IN numbersG) Well yes, that is the interesting question. But if you say that there are no numbers

Re: The Seventh Step (Preamble)

2009-02-08 Thread Günther Greindl
'Tis poetry! Kim, Bruno, thanks for this wonderful dialog. Most beautiful stuff I've read in a long time - and so spontaneous. Cheers, Günther Bruno Marchal wrote: Hi Kim, I have not the time to think deeply on zero, so I will answer your last post instead :) On 05 Feb 2009, at

Re: consciousness and self-awareness

2009-02-08 Thread Günther Greindl
of human consciousness? Thank you. -- Günther Greindl Department of Philosophy of Science University of Vienna guenther.grei...@univie.ac.at Blog: http://www.complexitystudies.org/ Thesis: http://www.complexitystudies.org/proposal

Re: COMP, Quantum Logic and Gleason's Theorem

2009-02-08 Thread Günther Greindl
' are OK. With such handicap in my thinking it is hard to fully follow the flow of the (A)UDA dicussions. I try. Best regards John M On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Günther Greindl guenther.grei...@gmail.com mailto:guenther.grei...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Bruno

Re: COMP, Quantum Logic and Gleason's Theorem

2009-02-08 Thread Günther Greindl
Dear Bruno, Some of these books I have already read (Boolos), You mean read with pencil and paper? Well no *grin* - it was the adopted textbook in one of the courses I took, and I did the assigned exercises, but now flipping through the book I realize I must go back to it again - more than

Re: briefly wading back into the fray

2009-02-08 Thread Günther Greindl
Hello Jack, I could tell you what's wrong with his MGA, but I'm here to deal with the QS paper first. I appreciate your prioritizing your paper, but I would be interested in what you find wrong with the MGA. By the way, as I mentioned in a previous mail to John, my departure from

Re: Movie graph and computational supervenience

2009-01-29 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi Quentin, So when do the AI becomes a zombie when I run it relatively to me ? after how much stub subpart (I'm talking about function in a program, not about a physical computer on which the said program is run) have been replaced ? Will answer more later. Ok, have you looked at the

Re: COMP, Quantum Logic and Gleason's Theorem

2009-01-28 Thread Günther Greindl
math = Plotinus (or Ibn Arabi or any serious and rational mystic). Roughly speaking. I will think about a layman explanation of AUDA without math, and different from UDA. Best regards, Bruno On 25 Jan 2009, at 18:45, Günther Greindl wrote: Hi Bruno, Goldblatt

Re: COMP, Quantum Logic and Gleason's Theorem

2009-01-28 Thread Günther Greindl
Bruno, theoretical computer science and mathematical logic. Rereading Conscience et Mécanisme I realize Russell Standish was right, and that book should be translated in english because it contains an almost complete (self-contained) explanation of logic (for the physicists), including

UDA and interference of histories

2009-01-28 Thread Günther Greindl
Again a question for Bruno ;-) There are certain arguments (Deutsch, Wallace, Greaves) that propose that they can derive probabilites (and the Born rule) from decision theory - although I am not convinced (see for instance Price 2008 - http://arxiv.org/abs/0802.1390). Criticism

Re: View this page Resources

2009-01-25 Thread Günther Greindl
, but it seems to have vanished into an alternative universe. Are you still around Jason? Cheer -- Günther Greindl Department of Philosophy of Science University of Vienna guenther.grei...@univie.ac.at Blog: http://www.complexitystudies.org/ Thesis: http://www.complexitystudies.org/proposal

Re: COMP, Quantum Logic and Gleason's Theorem

2009-01-25 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi Bruno, Goldblatt, Mathematics of Modality Note that it is advanced stuff for people familiarized with mathematical logic (it presupposes Mendelson's book, or Boolos Jeffrey). Two papers in that book are part of AUDA: the UDA explain to the universal machine, and her opinion on

Re: KIM 2.3 (was Re: Time)

2009-01-21 Thread Günther Greindl
Kim, the uncomputability of this issue. Why should the mind be limited to the computable? Clearly it is not. So you deny Step 1 again? You say no to the doctor? Could an AI conceive of Platonia? Why not? Cheers, Günther --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You

Re: Newbie Questions

2009-01-21 Thread Günther Greindl
Ronald, the ad hoc is because of the introduction of the inflatons which do nothing but, um, inflate... Stephen said: b) some sound explanation where given as to how an in principle unknowable phenomenon - the BB singularity itself - is any different from a Creative Deity, sans only the

Re: Materialism was:Re: KIM 2.3

2009-01-21 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi Brent, I didn't use the term - it is one being attributed to me simply because I question the adequacy of logic and mathematics to instantiate physics. That is ok - there are different versions of materialism/physicalism etc. I don't accept any such esoteric theories - I merely

Re: Newbie Questions

2009-01-19 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi, Naive question: do physicists reconcile a really flat universe and the big bang theory? I don't see how. you mean this problem? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang#Flatness.2Foldness_problem Inflationary theories give a solution, but it is a bit ad hoc. I am not a big fan of Big Bang

Materialism was:Re: KIM 2.3

2009-01-19 Thread Günther Greindl
Brent, I wonder, what do you mean with materialism (I ask this having been a materialist myself)? Physics only describes relations. (see for instance here http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/structural-realism/) I gather you accept MWI, so quite a lot of relations hold. The question is, why

Re: COMP, Quantum Logic and Gleason's Theorem

2009-01-19 Thread Günther Greindl
, Mathematics of Modality http://www.amazon.com/Mathematics-Modality-Center-Language-Information/dp/1881526240/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1232402154sr=8-1 (the book contains the full paper) Cheers, Günther Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Jan 2009, at 22:04, Günther Greindl wrote: Hi all

COMP, Quantum Logic and Gleason's Theorem

2009-01-16 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi all, the question goes primarily to Bruno but all other input is welcome :-)) Bruno, you said you have already arrived at a quantum logic in your technical work? May I refer to the following two paragraphs?: We can read here: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qt-quantlog/ The

Re: KIM 2.3 (was Re: Time)

2009-01-12 Thread Günther Greindl
on m1 and separately s11 to s20 on m2? -- Günther Greindl Department of Philosophy of Science University of Vienna guenther.grei...@univie.ac.at Blog: http://www.complexitystudies.org/ Thesis: http://www.complexitystudies.org/proposal/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You

Re: Exact Theology was:Re: Kim 2.4 - 2.5

2009-01-11 Thread Günther Greindl
(concerning Pythagorenaism) is interesting. Best Wishes, Günther http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- Günther Greindl Department of Philosophy of Science University of Vienna guenther.grei...@univie.ac.at Blog: http://www.complexitystudies.org/ Thesis: http

Re: Boltzmann Brains, consciousness and the arrow of time

2009-01-10 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi Bruno, I don't understand what you mean by computations being infinitely far away. In the UD deployment, which I will wrote UD*, all computations begins soon or later (like all dominoes falls soon or later in the infinite discrete dominoe-sequences). All computations reach any of

Re: KIM 2.3 (was Re: Time)

2009-01-09 Thread Günther Greindl
Thomas, (Apropos Günther Greindl's remark: space as the self moving in relation to everything else, time as everything outside the self moving in relation to oneself. it's funny that already in 1895, in his novel The Time Machine, H.G. Wells wrote, There is no difference between time and

Re: Boltzmann Brains, consciousness and the arrow of time

2009-01-09 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi Bruno, and Cantor get a contradiction from that. You assume the diagram is indeed a piece of an existing bijection in Platonia, or known by God. No, you misunderstand me there - I just meant that we need to take the step to infinity - see below. that you get by flipping the 0 and 1

Exact Theology was:Re: Kim 2.4 - 2.5

2009-01-09 Thread Günther Greindl
Hello, My domain is theology. scientific and thus agnostic theology. I specialized my self in Machine's theology. Or Human's theology once assuming comp. The UDA shows (or should show) that physics is a branch of theology, so that the AUDA makes Machine's theology experimentally

Re: Kim 2.4 - 2.5

2009-01-09 Thread Günther Greindl
John, Brent, John said: EPR is a thought-experiment, constructed (designed) to make a point. How can one use such artifact as 'evidence' that shows...? Aspect Et Al tested it ages ago, see for instance here: http://www-ece.rice.edu/~kono/ELEC565/Aspect_Nature.pdf Brent said: But the EPR

Re: Boltzmann Brains, consciousness and the arrow of time

2009-01-07 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi Bruno, thanks for your comments, I interleave my response. showed a glimpse of the vastness of the UD. And, I agree, _in the limit_ there will be an infinite number of histories. So, as we have to also take into account infinite delay, we must take this limit into account and have

Re: KIM 2.3 (was Re: Time)

2009-01-06 Thread Günther Greindl
Abram, an intuition I have come to concerning time is the following (it is only qualitative and may or may not be helpful in thinking about time): From relativity theory we know that there is no universal now, and that the invariant between two points in the physical universe is spacetime

Re: Boltzmann Brains, consciousness and the arrow of time

2009-01-05 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi Stephen, Stephen Paul King wrote: Nice post! Coments soon. Thanks :-) Looking forward to the comments. Speaking of Svozil's work, please see: Cristian S. Calude, Peter H. Hertling and Karl Svozil, ``Embedding Quantum Universes in Classical Ones'', Foundations of Physics 29(3),

Re: Boltzmann Brains, consciousness and the arrow of time

2009-01-03 Thread Günther Greindl
inhabitants of the rather small (considered against Platonia) visible universe. Best Wishes, Günther Bruno Marchal wrote: Hi Günther, On 01 Jan 2009, at 23:58, Günther Greindl wrote: Bruno, I have also wanted to ask how you come to 2^aleph_zero Well, in part this results from

Re: Boltzmann Brains, consciousness and the arrow of time

2009-01-01 Thread Günther Greindl
which occur purely by luck, then causality can't play a significant role. This is the rather surprising conclusion which I reached from these musings on Boltzmann Brains. Hal Finney -- Günther Greindl Department of Philosophy of Science University of Vienna guenther.grei...@univie.ac.at

Re: Boltzmann Brains, consciousness and the arrow of time

2009-01-01 Thread Günther Greindl
Bruno, I have also wanted to ask how you come to 2^aleph_zero Well, in part this results from the unbounded dumbness of the universal doevtailing procedure which dovetails on all programs but also on all non interacting collection of programs (as all interacting one). How do you

Re: Machines was:Kim 2.1

2008-12-25 Thread Günther Greindl
Bruno, This conception can, I think, be indeed taken for granted by every scientifically minded person. Why ? It is an assumption too. What could we taken it for granted? Yes, it is an assumption - that is why is wrote scientifically minded - if you are in any way naturalist (and all the

Re: Machines was:Kim 2.1

2008-12-25 Thread Günther Greindl
Bruno, But no weakening of comp based on nature is known to escape the replicability. Even the non cloning theorem in QM cannot be used to escape the UDA conclusion. I already wanted to ask you on this one: you have said before on the list that quantum-no cloning does not make a problem

Machines was:Kim 2.1

2008-12-24 Thread Günther Greindl
Kim, Bruno, Not at all. You have already done the first and last leap of faith of the reasoning when accepting the digital brain at the first step. I am aware that you are not aware of that, because in the reply you seem to believe that the MEC hypothesis can be taken for granted. But it

Re: Consciousness and free will

2008-12-01 Thread Günther Greindl
Dear Bruno, Bruno Marchal wrote: To call it deterministic is IMO OK, but not free will at all. Self or not self: it is a consequence. Then we should make all criminals free, because they all just obeys Schroedinger equation. (Free)-will exists because we cannot known all No of

Re: MGA 3

2008-12-01 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi Bruno, but no! Then we wouldn't have a substrate anymore. Oh( That is not true! We still have the projector and the film. We can project the movie in the air or directly in your eyes. Ok I see now where our intuitions differ (always the problem with thought experiment) - but maybe we

Re: Consciousness and free will

2008-12-01 Thread Günther Greindl
Hello M.A., * Mine dwells on bad actions. (Jewish guilt perhaps.) * Maybe this post is of interest for you? (it is good) http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/tsuyoku_naritai.html The whole of Nietzsche's philosophy is a monument dedicated to gainsay that error. *Yet most of his

Re: Lost and not lost?

2008-11-30 Thread Günther Greindl
Hey, Kim Jones wrote: I think this idea is so momentous that I actually wish to compose a piece of music - possibly a symphony - which seeks to represent this idea in music. That would be cool! Et pourquoi pas? Most of the great composers attempted to represent the TRANSCENDENTAL

Re: Consciousness and free will

2008-11-30 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi, consciousness, bearing burdensome memories of repugnant actions, What about consciousness only bearing memories of wonderful actions? either surrender the possibility of free will (fatalism) Denying free will does not imply fatalism! The whole of Nietzsche's philosophy is a monument

Re: MGA 2

2008-11-30 Thread Günther Greindl
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: I realise this coming close to regarding consciousness as akin to the religious notion of a disembodied soul. But what are the alternatives? As I see it, if we don't discard computationalism the only alternative is to deny that consciousness exists at all, which

Platonia and causality

2008-11-30 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi all, Bruno, do you still keep a notion of causality and the likes in platonia? I have collected these snips from some recent posts: Brent Meeker wrote: But is causality an implementation detail? There seems to be an implicit assumption that digitally represented states form a sequence

Re: MGA 3

2008-11-30 Thread Günther Greindl
Hello Bruno, I must admit you have completely lost me with MGA 3. With MGA 1 and 2, I would say that, with MEC+MAT, also the the projection of the movie (and Lucky Alice in 1) are conscious - because it supervenes on the physical activity. MEC says: it's the computation that counts, not the

Re: MGA 3

2008-11-30 Thread Günther Greindl
Bruno, I have reread MGA 2 and would like to add the following: We have the optical boolean graph: OBG - this computes alice's dream. we make a movie of this computation. Now we run again, but in OBG some nodes do not make the computation correctly, BUT the movie _triggers_ the nodes, so in

Re: MGA 2

2008-11-24 Thread Günther Greindl
Quentin Anciaux wrote: If infinities are at play... what is a MAT-history ? it can't even be written. Agreed. And that is why we should be more reluctant to drop COMP than to drop MAT. But IF we drop COMP, we could accept unwriteable MAT-histories. Cheers, Günther

Re: MGA 2

2008-11-23 Thread Günther Greindl
Bruno, From this we can extract a logic of the observable proposition and compare with the empirical quantum logic, making comp testable, and already tested on its most weird consequences, retrospectively. you could refute COMP (MEC) if it would contradict empirical QM, but QM (and

Re: MGA 1

2008-11-22 Thread Günther Greindl
Hmm, However, I do start getting uncomfortable when I realize that this lucky teleportation can happen over and over again, and if it happens fast enough, it just reduces to sheer randomness that just happens to be generating an ordered pattern that looks like Kory. I have a hard

Re: MGA 1

2008-11-22 Thread Günther Greindl
Kory Heath wrote: If Lucky Alice is conscious and Empty-Headed Alice is not conscious, then there are partial zombies halfway between them. Like you, I can't make any sense of these partial zombies. But also can't make any I think a materialist would either have to argue that Lucky

Re: QTI euthanasia

2008-11-22 Thread Günther Greindl
Brent, thanks for the paper recommendations! I will have a look at them. Cheers, Günther Brent Meeker wrote: Günther Greindl wrote: Hello Brent, That was my point. The SWE indicates that every microscopic event that happens or doesn't happen stochastically splits the wave function

Re: QTI euthanasia (brouillon)

2008-11-16 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi Kory, nicely put (the below), it captures my current metaphysical position quite accurately :-) Cheers, Günther Imagine again the mathematical description of Conway's Life applied to the binary digits of PI. Somewhere within that description there may be descriptions of beings who

Re: QTI euthanasia

2008-11-16 Thread Günther Greindl
Hello Brent, That was my point. The SWE indicates that every microscopic event that happens or doesn't happen stochastically splits the wave function. But these events don't generally cause a split of Kory or other classical objects. Those objects are not in some pure state anyway.

Re: QTI euthanasia

2008-11-14 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi Bruno, a very cool series of posts. I would also like to express my interest in your MGA argument (my French is very rusty). I have read the Maudlin Olympia paper, but would like to hear your version. Cheers, Günther --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this

Re: Probability

2008-11-07 Thread Günther Greindl
Thomas, MW must be some how different from the same concept in everyday language? In the latter probably just means likely to happen but if EVERYTHING happens then how can the concept make sense? I guess it must be two different concepts, then? I wouldn't say so. Always look at the word

Re: QTI euthanasia (brouillon)

2008-11-07 Thread Günther Greindl
Hi Bruno, I can agree for all computational states of some (universal) machine. If you don't precise what you mean by state it is a bit too much general. Imo. I mean either: all computational states OR all physical states - depending on whether comp or phys is true. Where the difference

Re: QTI euthanasia (brouillon)

2008-11-06 Thread Günther Greindl
Hello Bruno, More exactly: I can conceive fake policemen in paper are not conscious, and that is all I need to accept I can be fail by some zombie. Thus I can conceive zombies. Ok, but conceivability does not entail possibilty. I think philosophical zombies are impossible (=not able to

Regarding Aesthetics

2008-09-08 Thread Günther Greindl
Here is a pertinent paper, just published: Unmasking the Truth Beneath the Beauty: Why the Supposed Aesthetic Judgements Made in Science May Not Be Aesthetic at All Cain S. Todd International Studies in the Philosophy of Science, Volume 22, Issue 1 March 2008 , pages 61 - 79 DOI:

Cartoon Guide to Löb's Theorem

2008-08-17 Thread Günther Greindl
, Günther -- Günther Greindl Department of Philosophy of Science University of Vienna [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blog: http://www.complexitystudies.org/ Thesis: http://www.complexitystudies.org/proposal/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed

Re: Simplicity, the infinite and the everything (42x)

2008-08-14 Thread Günther Greindl
emulable minds. It depends if you believe in duplication or unity of conscious experience. Cheers, Günther -- Günther Greindl Department of Philosophy of Science University of Vienna [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blog: http://www.complexitystudies.org/ Thesis: http://www.complexitystudies.org/proposal

Re: Intelligence, Aesthetics and Bayesianism: Game over!

2008-07-30 Thread Günther Greindl
mathematics is beautiful. Good music and paintings often have a deep mathematical structure. No reason to throw away the math. Cheers, Günther -- Günther Greindl Department of Philosophy of Science University of Vienna [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blog: http://www.complexitystudies.org/ Thesis: http

Re: Intelligence, Aesthetics and Bayesianism: Game over!

2008-07-29 Thread Günther Greindl
Footbridge connects the Gates Center for Computer Science, with an adjacent arts building, symbolizing the bridge between art and science. Randy Pausch Home Page: http://download.srv.cs.cmu.edu/~pausch/ -- Günther Greindl Department of Philosophy of Science University of Vienna

Re: multiverse talk

2008-07-14 Thread Günther Greindl
historical development of physics rather than from fundamental considerations. Not so Level IV: this would constitute a truly differnt kind of Multiverse, where one has to argue that it exists or not if one accepts Levels I-III. Cheers, Günther -- Günther Greindl Department of Philosophy

Re: multiverse talk

2008-07-13 Thread Günther Greindl
linearly, so this suggests he comes from a really weird place); also, he can enter our universe at will (at every time and place, again suggesting he comes from a mathematical uber-universe having access to lower universes). Cheers, Günther -- Günther Greindl Department of Philosophy of Science

Re: questionnaire

2008-07-04 Thread Günther Greindl
?) many observers? - How can we/should we predict the future and postdict the past? ___ Sorry, cheers. -- Günther Greindl Department of Philosophy of Science University of Vienna [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.univie.ac.at/Wissenschaftstheorie/ Blog: http

Re: Making money via quantum suicide

2008-06-27 Thread Günther Greindl
://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love#Scientific_views Love is not mysterious. That does not mean that it is not important. There is a widely held confusion that for something to be of value it should be mysterious. Cheers, Günther -- Günther Greindl Department of Philosophy of Science University of Vienna [EMAIL

Re: Cosmology and Boltzmann brains

2008-06-18 Thread Günther Greindl
the message about witchcraft; you have simply added a useless prologue, increasing the total length. The real sneakiness was concealed in the word it of A witch did it. A witch did what? QUOTE END same goes for god did it Cheers, Günther -- Günther Greindl Department of Philosophy of Science

Cosmology and Boltzmann brains

2008-06-12 Thread Günther Greindl
; this whole continuation of experience business is the whole mystery anyway IMHO. Cheers, Günther -- Günther Greindl Department of Philosophy of Science University of Vienna [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.univie.ac.at/Wissenschaftstheorie/ Blog: http://dao.complexitystudies.org/ Site: http

Re: All feedback appreciated - An introduction to Algebraic Physics

2008-05-20 Thread Günther Greindl
Dear Bruno, thanks for your respone, looking forward to the next round of stimulating discussion in July :-)) Cheers, Günther --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this

Re: All feedback appreciated - An introduction to Algebraic Physics

2008-05-17 Thread Günther Greindl
contribution sheds some more light on a difficult question (there is too much unclear and confused writing on this subject, even by respected authors) Cheers, Günther -- Günther Greindl Department of Philosophy of Science University of Vienna [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.univie.ac.at

Intuitive Quantum Mechanis

2008-05-17 Thread Günther Greindl
-worlds.html http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/05/many-worlds-one.html Enjoy! Cheers, Günther -- Günther Greindl Department of Philosophy of Science University of Vienna [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.univie.ac.at/Wissenschaftstheorie/ Blog: http://dao.complexitystudies.org/ Site: http

Re: All feedback appreciated - An introduction to Algebraic Physics

2008-05-07 Thread Günther Greindl
previous answer to me. Thanks again for your effort to make clear yours ideas, it is well appreciated! Cheers, Günther -- Günther Greindl Department of Philosophy of Science University of Vienna [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.univie.ac.at/Wissenschaftstheorie/ Blog: http://dao.complexitystudies.org

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