Brent: right on!
It all seems to me that we have no fitting meanings (whatver) of memory,
identity, forgetting, recalling and the entire vocabulary we apply to things
unknown. We only think so.
The fact that Bruno puts equationally expressed formulations (numbers) to it
does not make it more
2009/4/3 Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com:
But if you're going to derive physics from consciousness you need to
explain what connects across the gap - why is it still you. I
appreciate that part of the answer is memories, although Bruno seems to
think they are inessential. But even if
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
2009/4/3 Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com:
But if you're going to derive physics from consciousness you need to
explain what connects across the gap - why is it still you. I
appreciate that part of the answer is memories, although Bruno seems to
think
On 02 Apr 2009, at 13:23, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
2009/4/2 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be:
I would say that if you are at a fork where one version of you loses
all memories and another does not, then you will find yourself going
down the no memory loss path.
At which point? Also,
Brent,
I read this discussion and 'try' not to get involved (never succeedG).
*
Ourselves w/wout our memories? what else? These terms come from the ancient
religious fable about a 'soul' - the person in the faith-domain.
Even the old Indians made 'reincarnation' hazy without memories and the only
2009/4/4 Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com:
I have been using the term memories to include more than just long
term memories. For example, I have a feeling of being me which
persists from moment to moment. Even though I can't put this feeling
into words, I would know immediately if
2009/4/4 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
The probability that I go from state A to state B is given by the
number of computations going from A to B.
The problem with amnesic teleportation, that is teleportation with
partial amnesia in the reconstituted person, is that it introduce a
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
2009/4/4 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
The probability that I go from state A to state B is given by the
number of computations going from A to B.
The problem with amnesic teleportation, that is teleportation with
partial amnesia in the reconstituted
2009/4/2 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be:
I would say that if you are at a fork where one version of you loses
all memories and another does not, then you will find yourself going
down the no memory loss path.
At which point? Also, why is it that we din't survive them to the
continuation
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
2009/4/2 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be:
I would say that if you are at a fork where one version of you loses
all memories and another does not, then you will find yourself going
down the no memory loss path.
At which point? Also, why is it that we
2009/3/31 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
Hello Quentin,
Le 30-mars-09, à 20:03, Quentin Anciaux a écrit :
2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
On 30 Mar 2009, at 17:03, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
Hi,
2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
Hi Kelly, and others,
Well,
2009/4/1 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be:
A
historian could come along and argue for one reason and another that
the Middle Ages should not be considered to have ended until the year
1800, and although we might disagree with him we can't say that he is
wrong in the same way he would be
On 01 Apr 2009, at 11:30, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
2009/3/31 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
Hello Quentin,
Le 30-mars-09, à 20:03, Quentin Anciaux a écrit :
2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
On 30 Mar 2009, at 17:03, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
Hi,
2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal
On 31 Mar 2009, at 19:06, Brent Meeker wrote:
Yet they assume we are our bodies; otherwise duplicating the body
wouldn't duplicate the self.
We just bet on a level such that the self is incarnate in a digital
way by the body.
Suppose the duplication were performed
this way. You
On 01 Apr 2009, at 12:39, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
2009/4/1 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be:
A
historian could come along and argue for one reason and another that
the Middle Ages should not be considered to have ended until the
year
1800, and although we might disagree with him we
Le 30-mars-09, à 22:05, Kelly a écrit :
Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually
last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I know
only one case of an experience lasting 20 minutes.
I used this liquid extract stuff.
Very good!
You hold
2009/3/31 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be:
It does indeed present conceptual difficulties. The problem is that
our notion of personal identity is dependent on the world in which we
evolved, where these duplication experiments don't happen. The
conceptual difficulties vanish if we say that
Hello Quentin,
Le 30-mars-09, à 20:03, Quentin Anciaux a écrit :
2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
On 30 Mar 2009, at 17:03, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
Hi,
2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
Hi Kelly, and others,
Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It
On 31 Mar 2009, at 12:34, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
2009/3/31 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be:
It does indeed present conceptual difficulties. The problem is that
our notion of personal identity is dependent on the world in which
we
evolved, where these duplication experiments don't
Bruno Marchal wrote:
Hello Quentin,
Le 30-mars-09, à 20:03, Quentin Anciaux a écrit :
2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be
On 30 Mar 2009, at 17:03, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
Hi,
2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be
Hi Kelly,
Hi Kelly, and others,
Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually
last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I know
only one case of an experience lasting 20 minutes. I am happy you found
your experience interesting. You can consult and discuss
2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
Hi Kelly, and others,
Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually
last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I know
only one case of an experience lasting 20 minutes. I am happy you found
your
Hi,
2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
Hi Kelly, and others,
Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually
last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I know
only one case of an experience lasting 20 minutes. I am happy you found
your
Bruno Marchal wrote:
Hi Kelly, and others,
Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually
last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I know
only one case of an experience lasting 20 minutes. I am happy you found
your experience interesting. You
On 30 Mar 2009, at 14:02, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
Hi Kelly, and others,
Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually
last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I
know
only one case of an
On 30 Mar 2009, at 17:03, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
Hi,
2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
Hi Kelly, and others,
Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually
last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I know
only one case of an experience
On 30 Mar 2009, at 18:23, Brent Meeker wrote:
Bruno Marchal wrote:
Hi Kelly, and others,
Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually
last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I
know
only one case of an experience lasting 20 minutes. I am
2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
On 30 Mar 2009, at 17:03, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
Hi,
2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
Hi Kelly, and others,
Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually
last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with
Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 30 Mar 2009, at 14:02, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
Hi Kelly, and others,
Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually
last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I
Quentin Anciaux wrote:
2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be
On 30 Mar 2009, at 17:03, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
Hi,
2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be
Hi Kelly, and others,
Well, thanks for
Stathis: (in your text):
...or an unrelated person's consciousness...???
I agree with you when you say: losing all memories erases your personality
(consciousnessless state) - but where do you pick that 'unrelted person's
one, which also can only based on that 'unrelated person's' memory etc.
Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually
last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I know
only one case of an experience lasting 20 minutes.
I used this liquid extract stuff. You hold it in your mouth for
several minutes to get it into your
Present
I meant as the difference of the (active?) feeleing of consciously being
there vs. the afterthought, thinking back to be there.
It would be amazing to be 'conscious' in a state of dreaming =
'unconsciousness'.
I would cut out instances of Salvia etc., as my deliberate aim for thinking
in
I tried Salvia for the first time yesterday. Very similar to
dreaming, but more intense, with a lot more sounds.
At first I thought, Nothing's happening. Then I thought, I seem to
be about to slide sidewise...I need to stop.
Then, I was sitting somewhere...in a tilled field I think, and I
On 21 Mar 2009, at 19:55, Johnathan Corgan wrote:
On Fri, 2009-03-20 at 17:02 +1100, Kim Jones wrote:
Why would people dismiss the subjective experience of hallucinogens
as
chaos?
This is simply the observation that the action of hallucinogens on
consciousness is often dismissed as
On 28/03/2009, at 4:46 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Some hallucinogens go even further than this, and introduce an
element
of amnesia for semantic and episodic memories, such that users report
the experience of forgetting that I had taken a drug, that I was
human,
or even what being human
Kim,
I would not search in Bruno's generalized theoretical scientific write-up
answers to ANY/ALL particular question in (and out of) all domain(s).
In my worldview (I wish I could compose it in a text callable scientific)
the interconnection of the totality (relations of ALL to ALL) brings
On 23/03/2009, at 7:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
And why does plant constructs altered states of consciousness
molecules? In my opinion it has all to do with the incredibly complex
relationships that plant have with animals, in general, and insects in
particular. Many plants have to detract
Hi John,
On 23 Mar 2009, at 23:44, John Mikes wrote:
Bruno,
I enjoyed your pretty comprehensive post!
Thanks!
John
PS one little question: have you ever been 'present' when in REM?
I feel like I am present in most of the dreams, that is in the rather
realist dream of the REM states.
Bruno,
I enjoyed your pretty comprehensive post!
Thanks!
John
PS one little question: have you ever been 'present' when in REM? JM
On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 4:14 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
Hi Johnathan, Kim, Stathis
I agree with you Johnathan. Scientists learn a lot from
Hi Johnathan, Kim, Stathis
I agree with you Johnathan. Scientists learn a lot from extreme cases,
and altered states of consciousness is worth to study, even to
understand better what is a normal (if that exists) states of
consciousness.
Now remember that our brain seems to generate
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