Re: Asifism

2007-06-07 Thread Torgny Tholerus
Bruno Marchal skrev: Le 04-juin-07, 14:10, Torgny Tholerus a crit : Pain is the same thing as the pain center in the brain being stimulated. If you are really unconscious or not conscious, you could say this, indeed, but I hardly believe you are unconscious. In the best case your

Re: Asifism

2007-06-07 Thread Jef Allbright
On 6/7/07, Torgny Tholerus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is the philosophical term for persons like me, that totally deny the existence of the consciousness? (I also deny the existence of infinity...) Um, refreshingly rational? Pleasingly parsimonious? :-) - Jef

Re: Asifism

2007-06-07 Thread Quentin Anciaux
Hello, like I said before you are just turning the meaning of consciousness to mean whatever you think you're not. Knowing something implies consciousness, if you're not conscious, you can't know anything. Quentin On Thursday 07 June 2007 15:47:35 Torgny Tholerus wrote: Bruno Marchal

Re: Asifism

2007-06-07 Thread John Mikes
As we said it in Hungary: let the 'bartender' talk into it... * I feel it is a vague metaphor to have 'brain centers stimulated'- HOW? - as persuaded them to do something? There are physiologic activities translated (somewhere, somehow) into mental events and so far we know(?) about electric

Re: Asifism

2007-06-04 Thread Torgny Tholerus
Bruno Marchal skrev: Le 01-juin-07, 18:47, Torgny Tholerus a crit : When I am tortured, my pain center in my brain will be stimulated. This will cause me to try to avoid this situation (being tortured). One (good) way to archive this is to start talking about "ethics". If I

Re: Asifism

2007-06-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 01-juin-07, à 18:47, Torgny Tholerus a écrit : Bruno Marchal skrev: One more question: supposing you are correct, is it ethically wrong to torture you? Is it ethically wrong to torture an entity without consciousness (supposing we could be sure of that) even if it acts like it was

Re: Asifism

2007-06-02 Thread Quentin Anciaux
Hi, I'd say that I'm more sure of my own existence than anything else. Even if consciousness is an illusion, this illusion still is and need explanation... This illusion ask question about herself I can hear my thought, saying the're not real will not make them disappear. Quentin On Friday

Re: Asifism

2007-06-02 Thread Pete Carlton
On Jun 1, 2007, at 6:53 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: I assure you, at least one entity in the universe is conscious: me. If evolution could have made me a zombie, it would have. Therefore, it seems reasonable to assume that evolution couldn't help but grant me consciousness as a

Re: Asifism

2007-06-01 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On 01/06/07, Torgny Tholerus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am unconscious. I have no mind. I have no feelings. I have no perceptions. I am not thinking. I am just a machine that claims that I am conscious. The only thing that happens is a lot of chemical reactions in my brain. (Or

Re: Asifism

2007-06-01 Thread Torgny Tholerus
Stathis Papaioannou skrev: On 01/06/07, Torgny Tholerus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I behave AS IF I am conscious because the natural selection has favored that type of behavior. Which implies you really are conscious, because otherwise why would evolution have gone to the

Re: Asifism

2007-06-01 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On 01/06/07, Torgny Tholerus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stathis Papaioannou skrev: On 01/06/07, Torgny Tholerus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I behave AS IF I am conscious because the natural selection has favored that type of behavior. Which implies you really are conscious, because

Re: Asifism

2007-06-01 Thread John Mikes
Torgny: [[cute]] SAIS W H O I found Stathis' reply before I read your tirade. I agree and add: I think you 'are' a typical 'voter'. (in the political sense). Have a life! John M On 6/1/07, Torgny Tholerus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am unconscious. I have no mind. I have no

Re: Asifism

2007-06-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 01-juin-07, à 14:35, Torgny Tholerus a écrit : I am unconscious. I have no mind. I have no feelings. I have no perceptions. I am not thinking. I am just a machine that claims that I am conscious. The only thing that happens is a lot of chemical reactions in my brain. (Or

Re: Asifism

2007-06-01 Thread Torgny Tholerus
Bruno Marchal skrev: One more question: supposing you are correct, is it ethically wrong to torture you? Is it ethically wrong to torture an entity without consciousness (supposing we could be sure of that) even if it acts like it was conscious? This is an interesting question. And the

Re: Asifism

2007-06-01 Thread Torgny Tholerus
Bruno Marchal skrev: Le 01-juin-07, 14:35, Torgny Tholerus a crit : The only thing that exists is a lot of protons, neutrons, and electrons reacting with each other inside my brain. Are you *sure*? By the way, are you more sure about proton than about your belief in proton?

Re: Asifism

2007-06-01 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 01/06/07, *Torgny Tholerus* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am unconscious. I have no mind. I have no feelings. I have no perceptions. I am not thinking. I am just a machine that claims that I am conscious. The

Re: Asifism

2007-06-01 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 01/06/07, *Torgny Tholerus* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stathis Papaioannou skrev: On 01/06/07, *Torgny Tholerus* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I behave AS IF I am conscious because the

Re: Asifism

2007-06-01 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On 02/06/07, Brent Meeker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which implies you really are conscious, because otherwise why would evolution have gone to the trouble of making *me* conscious if it could have got away without it? -- Stathis Papaioannou How do you know it was trouble - maybe

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