Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-05 Thread meekerdb
On 12/5/2013 1:30 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/5 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net On 12/5/2013 8:09 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: No, because there is no absolute measure to decrease to begin with. The thing is, doing dangerous thing *increase*

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-05 Thread meekerdb
On 12/5/2013 8:53 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: I don't know how you count but for me the chance to be in a Dreb world after 24h is 1%^24 == infinitesimal. Each choice are independent... That would be the probability that you went to Dreb independently each hour. So you died the first hour,

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Dec 2013, at 23:47, meekerdb wrote: On 12/2/2013 12:52 PM, LizR wrote: On 3 December 2013 09:49, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/2 LizR lizj...@gmail.com On 3 December 2013 09:40, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/2/2013 8:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I'm sorry

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Dec 2013, at 21:33, Richard Ruquist wrote: Bruno, Could comp possibly work without the infinities.? At the ontological level, it works without the infinities. It still use the infinity of finite things: 0, 1, 2, 3, ... At the epistemological level, that is at the level of the beliefs

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Dec 2013, at 21:53, meekerdb wrote: On 12/3/2013 10:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 02 Dec 2013, at 19:11, meekerdb wrote: On 12/2/2013 1:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: wants to be worshiped, judges people and rewards and punishes them. That's a legend used to put people in place so

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi Richard, On 03 Dec 2013, at 21:54, Richard Ruquist wrote: Bruno: Also, to be sure, I know Christians who are real atheists. They keep the label by solidarity with the community or the family or traditionI let God counts the genuine believers :) Richard: A too friendly priest told

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Dec 2013, at 22:56, meekerdb wrote: On 12/3/2013 1:08 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 02 Dec 2013, at 21:52, LizR wrote: On 3 December 2013 09:49, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/2 LizR lizj...@gmail.com On 3 December 2013 09:40, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Dec 2013, at 22:57, John Mikes wrote: Bruno, I expected better from you. You seem to restrict the unlimited possibilities into the PRESENT limitations of our imagination. I seem to restrict, but comp is an assumption of finiteness, which augment the unlimited possibilities. Non

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
it into a sort of alien, hiding some possible God. Bruno -Original Message- From: Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, Dec 3, 2013 3:28 am Subject: Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment On 03 Dec 2013, at 08:13, meekerdb wrote: On 12/2/2013

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread Alberto G. Corona
You talk like if I was believing in comp, or defending that comp is true. I don't do that at all. So you think that your belief in COMP is product of a computation, so it is a belief, but not a true meta-belief of the meta-numeical reality, so it is not worth a belief fo Bruno Marchall?.

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread spudboy100
-Original Message- From: Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:32 am Subject: Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment On 03 Dec 2013, at 22:45, spudboy...@aol.com wrote: You can believe in God in the same sense that we can

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread Jason Resch
On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:17 AM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote: Theory? I am betting neither Clarke the writer, nor Shermer, the Atheist, has put a lot of intellectual efforts in their perspectives/statements. Clarke was aiming at human perspective. Shermer was trying to shoot down the attitudes

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread spudboy100
, or you'll feel Drelb's and my, lash! -Original Message- From: Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com To: Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, Dec 4, 2013 1:24 pm Subject: Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:17 AM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread meekerdb
On 12/4/2013 1:38 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 03 Dec 2013, at 21:53, meekerdb wrote: On 12/3/2013 10:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 02 Dec 2013, at 19:11, meekerdb wrote: On 12/2/2013 1:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: wants to be worshiped, judges people and rewards and punishes them.

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread meekerdb
On 12/4/2013 10:24 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:17 AM, spudboy...@aol.com mailto:spudboy...@aol.com wrote: Theory? I am betting neither Clarke the writer, nor Shermer, the Atheist, has put a lot of intellectual efforts in their perspectives/statements. Clarke

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread Jason Resch
On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 3:13 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/4/2013 10:24 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:17 AM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote: Theory? I am betting neither Clarke the writer, nor Shermer, the Atheist, has put a lot of intellectual efforts in

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/12/4 Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 3:13 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/4/2013 10:24 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:17 AM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote: Theory? I am betting neither Clarke the writer, nor Shermer, the

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread meekerdb
On 12/4/2013 2:27 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 3:13 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/4/2013 10:24 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:17 AM, spudboy...@aol.com mailto:spudboy...@aol.com wrote:

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread Jason Resch
On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/4 Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 3:13 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/4/2013 10:24 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:17 AM, spudboy...@aol.com

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread Jason Resch
On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 4:40 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/4/2013 2:27 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 3:13 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/4/2013 10:24 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:17 AM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread Quentin Anciaux
Measure is relative, it doesn't drop while you approach death. Probabilities add up to one... And by no cul de dac you should not count where you 're dead. Le 5 déc. 2013 03:44, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com a écrit : On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.comwrote:

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread LizR
On 5 December 2013 19:59, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: Measure is relative, it doesn't drop while you approach death. Probabilities add up to one... And by no cul de dac you should not count where you 're dead. In fact you don't approach death, assuming QTI, -- You received

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread Jason Resch
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: Measure is relative, Yes, so your current measure of next finding yourself in a Drelb continuation, is relatively low compared to the measure of you still being conscious on Earth. But if you point a quantum gun at your

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/12/5 Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.comwrote: Measure is relative, Yes, so your current measure of next finding yourself in a Drelb continuation, is relatively low compared to the measure of you still being

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread LizR
Well all the possibilities ever experienced by an human beings anywhere in the multiverse add up to a vanishingly small measure compared to all the parts of the multiverse where we didn't evolve, Earth didn't form, etc. So any measure we are aware of is always going to be infinitesimal from a

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-04 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/12/5 LizR lizj...@gmail.com Well all the possibilities ever experienced by an human beings anywhere in the multiverse add up to a vanishingly small measure compared to all the parts of the multiverse where we didn't evolve, Earth didn't form, etc. So any measure we are aware of is

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Dec 2013, at 08:13, meekerdb wrote: On 12/2/2013 11:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: just so they and their close friends can say, We believe in God rationally Come on. No serious theologian would say that. they know you need grace, luck, or a bit of salvia divinorum, which seems to

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-03 Thread Platonist Guitar Cowboy
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy multiplecit...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.comwrote: That's enough for me, if you want to put credit on fairy tale, it's your problem, not mine. Yeah, but then Ramanujan and a

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Dec 2013, at 19:11, meekerdb wrote: On 12/2/2013 1:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: wants to be worshiped, judges people and rewards and punishes them. That's a legend used to put people in place so that they will be worshiped, so that they can judged other people, reward and punish

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Dec 2013, at 21:40, meekerdb wrote: On 12/2/2013 8:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I'm sorry but we will have to agree we disagree on that. You're also misleading atheistic position, and you're wrongly attributing belief to atheist people (especially belgians)... I'm belgian, I'm not a

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-03 Thread Richard Ruquist
Bruno, Could comp possibly work without the infinities.? Richard On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 02 Dec 2013, at 21:40, meekerdb wrote: On 12/2/2013 8:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I'm sorry but we will have to agree we disagree on that. You're

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-03 Thread meekerdb
On 12/3/2013 10:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 02 Dec 2013, at 19:11, meekerdb wrote: On 12/2/2013 1:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: wants to be worshiped, judges people and rewards and punishes them. That's a legend used to put people in place so that they will be worshiped, so that they can

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-03 Thread Richard Ruquist
Bruno: Also, to be sure, I know Christians who are real atheists. They keep the label by solidarity with the community or the family or traditionI let God counts the genuine believers :) Richard: A too friendly priest told me that I was an atheist when I was in college and I agreed. I stopped

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Dec 2013, at 21:52, LizR wrote: On 3 December 2013 09:49, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/2 LizR lizj...@gmail.com On 3 December 2013 09:40, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/2/2013 8:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I'm sorry but we will have to agree we disagree

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-03 Thread spudboy100
Subject: Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment On 03 Dec 2013, at 08:13, meekerdb wrote: On 12/2/2013 11:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: just so they and their close friends can say, We believe in God rationally Come on. No serious theologian would say that. they know you need grace, luck

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-03 Thread meekerdb
On 12/3/2013 1:08 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 02 Dec 2013, at 21:52, LizR wrote: On 3 December 2013 09:49, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com mailto:allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/2 LizR lizj...@gmail.com mailto:lizj...@gmail.com On 3 December 2013 09:40, meekerdb

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-03 Thread John Mikes
Bruno, I expected better from you. You seem to restrict the unlimited possibilities into the PRESENT limitations of our imagination. Do you have any support for the exclusivity of computationalism over ALL (so far maybe not even thought about) systems that MAY work? Do you have support for YOUR

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Dec 2013, at 21:36, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/1 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be If a machine equates God with ultimate reality, I do not... I don't equate god with anything. Which means that you defend some inconsistent theory of God. As I said, I cannot define God by

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread Samiya Illias
A good software has a robust exception handling system, and does not crash. Does evolution not come across as a good software for natural selection? Whose the programmer? Samiya Sent from my iPhone On 02-Dec-2013, at 12:40 PM, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: Actually Crick

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/12/2 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 01 Dec 2013, at 21:36, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/1 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be If a machine equates God with ultimate reality, I do not... I don't equate god with anything. Which means that you defend some inconsistent theory

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Dec 2013, at 06:08, meekerdb wrote: On 12/1/2013 12:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Nov 2013, at 22:37, meekerdb wrote: I can conceive of (with apologies to H. L. Mencken), Agdistis or Angdistis, Ah Puch, Ahura Mazda, Alberich, Allah, Amaterasu, An, Anansi, Anat, Andvari,

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Dec 2013, at 06:47, meekerdb wrote: On 12/1/2013 1:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Nov 2013, at 23:33, meekerdb wrote: On 11/30/2013 10:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Brent, I hope you don't mind I re-answer this. On 28 Nov 2013, at 21:19, meekerdb wrote: I can conceive of

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Dec 2013, at 07:05, meekerdb wrote: On 12/1/2013 3:46 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: It is dishonesty only when an alternative religion is proposed and presented not as a religion, but as scientific facts. Atheists are not honest, because by denying a God or all God, they replace it

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Dec 2013, at 07:10, meekerdb wrote: On 12/1/2013 10:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Using God for the ultimate reality, it seems to me, can in the long run enlarge the listening and the understanding of what the machines are already telling us. Not as much as using ultimate reality for

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread Platonist Guitar Cowboy
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/2 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 01 Dec 2013, at 21:36, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/1 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be If a machine equates God with ultimate reality, I do not... I don't

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Dec 2013, at 10:26, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/2 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 01 Dec 2013, at 21:36, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/1 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be If a machine equates God with ultimate reality, I do not... I don't equate god with anything. Which

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread meekerdb
On 12/2/2013 12:55 AM, Samiya Illias wrote: A good software has a robust exception handling system, and does not crash. Does evolution not come across as a good software for natural selection? Natural selection is just part of evolution, a consequence of life reproducing exponentially so that

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread meekerdb
On 12/2/2013 1:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: As one of my physics advisors, Jurgen Ehlers, used to say, Before we can know whether a thing exists we must first know its properties. Exactly. That is my main criticism of atheism. They have to believe in a rather precise notion of God to

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread meekerdb
On 12/2/2013 1:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: wants to be worshiped, judges people and rewards and punishes them. That's a legend used to put people in place so that they will be worshiped, so that they can judged other people, reward and punish them. Why do you credit such things. Why can you

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread meekerdb
On 12/2/2013 2:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: You seem to have assumed the task is to find something label with the word God. I say let us be modest and use words for what we know. Let us be genuinely modest. We know about nothing, and all we can do is agreeing on some axioms. A logicians

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread meekerdb
On 12/2/2013 2:21 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 02 Dec 2013, at 07:05, meekerdb wrote: On 12/1/2013 3:46 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: It is dishonesty only when an alternative religion is proposed and presented not as a religion, but as scientific facts. Atheists are not honest,

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/12/2 Platonist Guitar Cowboy multiplecit...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.comwrote: 2013/12/2 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 01 Dec 2013, at 21:36, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/1 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be If a

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Dec 2013, at 19:03, meekerdb wrote: On 12/2/2013 1:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: As one of my physics advisors, Jurgen Ehlers, used to say, Before we can know whether a thing exists we must first know its properties. Exactly. That is my main criticism of atheism. They have to

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread meekerdb
On 12/2/2013 8:08 AM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: God as understood by billions people on earth... Billions have been wrong, they could and probably will be again. But they can't be wrong about what their words mean to them. Brent -- You received this message because you are

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread meekerdb
On 12/2/2013 8:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I'm sorry but we will have to agree we disagree on that. You're also misleading atheistic position, and you're wrongly attributing belief to atheist people (especially belgians)... I'm belgian, I'm not a materialist, I consider myself atheist in

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread LizR
On 3 December 2013 09:40, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/2/2013 8:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I'm sorry but we will have to agree we disagree on that. You're also misleading atheistic position, and you're wrongly attributing belief to atheist people (especially belgians)...

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/12/2 LizR lizj...@gmail.com On 3 December 2013 09:40, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/2/2013 8:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I'm sorry but we will have to agree we disagree on that. You're also misleading atheistic position, and you're wrongly attributing belief to atheist

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread LizR
On 3 December 2013 09:49, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/2 LizR lizj...@gmail.com On 3 December 2013 09:40, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/2/2013 8:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I'm sorry but we will have to agree we disagree on that. You're also misleading

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread Platonist Guitar Cowboy
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:03 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/2 Platonist Guitar Cowboy multiplecit...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.comwrote: 2013/12/2 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 01 Dec 2013, at 21:36,

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread Platonist Guitar Cowboy
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 9:18 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/2/2013 8:08 AM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: God as understood by billions people on earth... Billions have been wrong, they could and probably will be again. But they can't be wrong about what their words

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread meekerdb
On 12/2/2013 12:46 PM, LizR wrote: On 3 December 2013 09:40, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/2/2013 8:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I'm sorry but we will have to agree we disagree on that. You're also misleading atheistic position, and you're

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread meekerdb
On 12/2/2013 12:52 PM, LizR wrote: On 3 December 2013 09:49, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com mailto:allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/2 LizR lizj...@gmail.com mailto:lizj...@gmail.com On 3 December 2013 09:40, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/12/2 Platonist Guitar Cowboy multiplecit...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:03 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.comwrote: 2013/12/2 Platonist Guitar Cowboy multiplecit...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.comwrote: 2013/12/2

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-02 Thread meekerdb
On 12/2/2013 11:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: just so they and their close friends can say, We believe in God rationally Come on. No serious theologian would say that. they know you need grace, luck, or a bit of salvia divinorum, which seems to cure atheism according to some reports. So are

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/12/1 Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com We exist, then why should we reject the idea of having been created, just because we are unable to comprehend or define our Creator? Is that not intellectual dishonesty? Why should we have been created in the first place by an intentional act of

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Alberto G. Corona
As I said to Telmo talking about sacrifices somewhere above, individual sacrifices are the only way to create trust among non cloning entities. And what higher sacrifice than to negate'what is screaming in his mind, in the universe and in everithing? That is the main sacrifice of the atheists.

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/12/1 Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com As I said to Telmo talking about sacrifices somewhere above, individual sacrifices are the only way to create trust among non cloning entities. And what higher sacrifice than to negate'what is screaming in his mind, in the universe and in

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Alberto G. Corona
If what I said were absurd you would have not responded so quickly and so seriously. Sorry if I offended your faith. That was an experiment. 2013/12/1 Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com 2013/12/1 Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com As I said to Telmo talking about sacrifices somewhere

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/12/1 Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com If what I said were absurd you would have not responded so quickly and so seriously. Sorry if I offended your faith. That was an experiment. Oh easy to do that, the first to say is... childish. 2013/12/1 Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Alberto G. Corona
You know that it is not By the way, I´m glad that you recovered from the punch and adopted the standard superiority mode of atheistic conversation that I find sooo lovely 2013/12/1 Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com 2013/12/1 Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com If what I said were

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Nov 2013, at 22:37, meekerdb wrote: I can conceive of (with apologies to H. L. Mencken), Agdistis or Angdistis, Ah Puch, Ahura Mazda, Alberich, Allah, Amaterasu, An, Anansi, Anat, Andvari, Anshar, Anu, Aphrodite, Apollo, Apsu, Ares, Artemis, Asclepius, Athena, Athirat, Athtart,

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/12/1 Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com You know that it is not By the way, I´m glad that you recovered from the punch and adopted the standard superiority mode of atheistic conversation that I find sooo lovely Well, you use the standard rethoric... you don't discuss, so... That's

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/12/1 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 30 Nov 2013, at 22:37, meekerdb wrote: I can conceive of (with apologies to H. L. Mencken), Agdistis or Angdistis, Ah Puch, Ahura Mazda, Alberich, Allah, Amaterasu, An, Anansi, Anat, Andvari, Anshar, Anu, Aphrodite, Apollo, Apsu, Ares, Artemis,

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Nov 2013, at 23:33, meekerdb wrote: On 11/30/2013 10:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Brent, I hope you don't mind I re-answer this. On 28 Nov 2013, at 21:19, meekerdb wrote: I can conceive of (with apologies to H. L. Mencken), Agdistis or Angdistis, Ah Puch, Ahura Mazda, Alberich,

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/12/1 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 30 Nov 2013, at 23:33, meekerdb wrote: On 11/30/2013 10:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Brent, I hope you don't mind I re-answer this. On 28 Nov 2013, at 21:19, meekerdb wrote: I can conceive of (with apologies to H. L. Mencken), Agdistis

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Dec 2013, at 08:45, Samiya Illias wrote: We exist, OK. then why should we reject the idea of having been created, Or of having a non physical origin. creation involves the idea of someone doing something with something, and so that idea take some something for granted, and so

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/12/1 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 01 Dec 2013, at 08:45, Samiya Illias wrote: We exist, OK. then why should we reject the idea of having been created, Or of having a non physical origin. creation involves the idea of someone doing something with something, and so that

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Dec 2013, at 09:51, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/1 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 30 Nov 2013, at 22:37, meekerdb wrote: I can conceive of (with apologies to H. L. Mencken), Agdistis or Angdistis, Ah Puch, Ahura Mazda, Alberich, Allah, Amaterasu, An, Anansi, Anat,

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Dec 2013, at 11:01, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/1 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 30 Nov 2013, at 23:33, meekerdb wrote: On 11/30/2013 10:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Brent, I hope you don't mind I re-answer this. On 28 Nov 2013, at 21:19, meekerdb wrote: I can conceive

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/12/1 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 01 Dec 2013, at 09:51, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/1 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 30 Nov 2013, at 22:37, meekerdb wrote: I can conceive of (with apologies to H. L. Mencken), Agdistis or Angdistis, Ah Puch, Ahura Mazda, Alberich,

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Dec 2013, at 11:10, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Is that not intellectual dishonesty? It is dishonesty only when an alternative religion is proposed and presented not as a religion, but as scientific facts. Atheists are not honest, because by denying a God or all God, they replace it

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Dec 2013, at 12:32, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/1 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 01 Dec 2013, at 09:51, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/1 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 30 Nov 2013, at 22:37, meekerdb wrote: I can conceive of (with apologies to H. L. Mencken),

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/12/1 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 01 Dec 2013, at 12:32, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/1 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 01 Dec 2013, at 09:51, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/1 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 30 Nov 2013, at 22:37, meekerdb wrote: I can

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread LizR
On 30 November 2013 05:02, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Liz, I disagree. The atheists say the definition of Earth (God) in the sacred text is an infinite plane (fairy tale). We know there is no infinite plane below us, (we disbelief fairy tales) thus we correct our theory of Earth

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread LizR
On 30 November 2013 03:58, Platonist Guitar Cowboy multiplecit...@gmail.com wrote: 1) Atheists say: Prove to me your existence and I will trust you. God says: Trust me and I will prove to you my existence. Agnostic says: Trust me, neither of you can prove or show the other anything at

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread meekerdb
On 11/30/2013 11:45 PM, Samiya Illias wrote: We exist, then why should we reject the idea of having been created, Because we discovered that we evolved? Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Samiya Illias
Evolution is also a part of creation! The origin of creation, the perpetuation of creation, the process of procreation, and the selection of creation are all part of the continuous grand act of creation! Samiya Sent from my iPhone On 02-Dec-2013, at 9:17 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread meekerdb
On 12/1/2013 12:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Nov 2013, at 22:37, meekerdb wrote: I can conceive of (with apologies to H. L. Mencken), Agdistis or Angdistis, Ah Puch, Ahura Mazda, Alberich, Allah, Amaterasu, An, Anansi, Anat, Andvari, Anshar, Anu, Aphrodite, Apollo, Apsu, Ares,

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread meekerdb
On 12/1/2013 1:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Nov 2013, at 23:33, meekerdb wrote: On 11/30/2013 10:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Brent, I hope you don't mind I re-answer this. On 28 Nov 2013, at 21:19, meekerdb wrote: I can conceive of (with apologies to H. L. Mencken), Agdistis or

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread meekerdb
On 12/1/2013 3:32 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: As such, you should restrain from using that word, it's useless. What term would you suggest? What about ultimate reality ? Because that's what you say it means... It's neutral, does not have all the connotations linked with the word

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread meekerdb
On 12/1/2013 3:46 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: It is dishonesty only when an alternative religion is proposed and presented not as a religion, but as scientific facts. Atheists are not honest, because by denying a God or all God, they replace it without saying by another

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread meekerdb
On 12/1/2013 10:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Using God for the ultimate reality, it seems to me, can in the long run enlarge the listening and the understanding of what the machines are already telling us. Not as much as using ultimate reality for ultimate reality. One must suspect you have

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread meekerdb
Ok. But evolution works to 'create' without a creator. Brent On 12/1/2013 9:00 PM, Samiya Illias wrote: Evolution is also a part of creation! The origin of creation, the perpetuation of creation, the process of procreation, and the selection of creation are all part of the continuous grand

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread meekerdb
On 12/1/2013 10:30 PM, Samiya Illias wrote: That is simply because the system of evolution is perfectly designed by whoever designed it. I believe the 'whoever' to be God. Evolution is designed, it's a simple consequence of random variation and it's consequences for reproduction. That's why

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-12-01 Thread Richard Ruquist
Actually Crick designed the perfect means for DNA replication (I think that was it) without any errors long before it was established empirically. When experimenters finally discovered how nature did it, it turned out that nature's method produced occasional errors. So the system of evolution is

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
Brent, I hope you don't mind I re-answer this. On 28 Nov 2013, at 21:19, meekerdb wrote: I can conceive of (with apologies to H. L. Mencken), Agdistis or Angdistis, Ah Puch, Ahura Mazda, Alberich, Allah, Amaterasu, An, Anansi, Anat, Andvari, Anshar, Anu, Aphrodite, Apollo, Apsu, Ares,

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-30 Thread meekerdb
On 11/30/2013 3:44 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Nov 2013, at 23:59, meekerdb wrote: On 11/29/2013 9:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Nov 2013, at 21:19, meekerdb wrote: On 11/28/2013 5:52 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 27 Nov 2013, at 23:36, meekerdb wrote: On 11/27/2013 7:03 AM,

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-30 Thread meekerdb
On 11/30/2013 10:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Brent, I hope you don't mind I re-answer this. On 28 Nov 2013, at 21:19, meekerdb wrote: I can conceive of (with apologies to H. L. Mencken), Agdistis or Angdistis, Ah Puch, Ahura Mazda, Alberich, Allah, Amaterasu, An, Anansi, Anat, Andvari,

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-30 Thread Samiya Illias
We exist, then why should we reject the idea of having been created, just because we are unable to comprehend or define our Creator? Is that not intellectual dishonesty? Samiya Sent from my iPhone On 01-Dec-2013, at 3:33 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 11/30/2013 10:03 AM,

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-30 Thread Richard Ruquist
I grew up with my creators. Richard On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 2:45 AM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.comwrote: We exist, then why should we reject the idea of having been created, just because we are unable to comprehend or define our Creator? Is that not intellectual dishonesty? Samiya

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