Re: Existence and Properties

2011-10-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Oct 2011, at 19:41, meekerdb wrote: On 10/3/2011 8:43 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: [SPK] Let me try to be sure that I understand this comment. When you write: they will all see the same laws are you referring to those invariant quantities and relations/functions with respect

Re: Existence and Properties

2011-10-04 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/4/2011 10:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 03 Oct 2011, at 19:41, meekerdb wrote: On 10/3/2011 8:43 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: [SPK] Let me try to be sure that I understand this comment. When you write: they will all see the same laws are you referring to those invariant quantities

Re: Existence and Properties

2011-10-04 Thread meekerdb
On 10/4/2011 10:25 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: The conservation laws come from the requirement that we want our laws to be the same for everyone at every time and place. This is our idea of laws. I'm sure you're familiar with Noether's theorem and how she showed that conservation of moment

Re: Existence and Properties

2011-10-04 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/4/2011 4:20 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 10/4/2011 10:25 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: The conservation laws come from the requirement that we want our laws to be the same for everyone at every time and place. This is our idea of laws. I'm sure you're familiar with Noether's theorem and how

Re: Existence and Properties

2011-10-03 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/1/2011 9:50 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Oct 2011, at 02:18, David Nyman wrote: On 30 September 2011 16:55, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: They are ontologically primitive, in the sense that ontologically they are the only things which exist. even

Re: Existence and Properties

2011-10-03 Thread meekerdb
On 10/3/2011 8:43 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: [SPK] Let me try to be sure that I understand this comment. When you write: they will all see the same laws are you referring to those invariant quantities and relations/functions with respect to transformations of reference frames/coordinate

Re: Existence and Properties

2011-10-03 Thread David Nyman
On 3 October 2011 16:43, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote: [SPK]     But why some particular type of primitive rather than some other? It seems to me, for symmetry reasons, that a truly ultimate primitive would have no particular properties associated with it at all! I think that

Re: Existence and Properties

2011-10-03 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/3/2011 2:42 PM, David Nyman wrote: On 3 October 2011 16:43, Stephen P. Kingstephe...@charter.net wrote: [SPK] But why some particular type of primitive rather than some other? It seems to me, for symmetry reasons, that a truly ultimate primitive would have no particular properties

Re: Existence and Properties

2011-10-01 Thread David Nyman
On 1 October 2011 04:14, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote:    I have been attempting to ask a similar question, but my words were failing me. What is the necessity of the 1p? AFAIK, it seems that because it is possible. This is what I mean by existence = []. But does this line of

Re: Existence and Properties

2011-10-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Oct 2011, at 02:18, David Nyman wrote: On 30 September 2011 16:55, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: They are ontologically primitive, in the sense that ontologically they are the only things which exist. even computations don't exist in that primitive sense. Computations

Re: Existence and Properties

2011-10-01 Thread David Nyman
On 1 October 2011 14:50, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: But UDA shows (I think) that matter and consciousness are first person collective constructs of all the numbers. Yes, I agree. But my general point was that even in terms of physicalism, the way matter ordinarily appears to the

Re: Existence and Properties

2011-10-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Oct 2011, at 17:42, David Nyman wrote: On 1 October 2011 14:50, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: But UDA shows (I think) that matter and consciousness are first person collective constructs of all the numbers. Yes, I agree. But my general point was that even in terms of

Re: Existence and Properties

2011-10-01 Thread David Nyman
On 1 October 2011 18:07, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: To be short, only intelligible ideas exist [only numbers and definable relations exist]. God and matter does NOT exist, but they do exist epistemologically. And they are quite distinct for what really exist. This does not work

Re: Existence and Properties

2011-10-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Oct 2011, at 19:49, David Nyman wrote: On 1 October 2011 18:07, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: To be short, only intelligible ideas exist [only numbers and definable relations exist]. God and matter does NOT exist, but they do exist epistemologically. And they are quite

Re: Existence and Properties

2011-09-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Sep 2011, at 13:44, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/30/2011 5:45 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: If comp +Theaetus is correct, you have to distinguish physical existence, which is of the type []#, and existence, which is of the type Ex ... x I will use the modal box [] and diamond fro

Re: Existence and Properties

2011-09-30 Thread David Nyman
On 30 September 2011 16:55, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: They are ontologically primitive, in the sense that ontologically they are the only things which exist. even computations don't exist in that primitive sense. Computations already exists only relationally. I will keep saying

Re: Existence and Properties

2011-09-30 Thread Stephen P. King
On 9/30/2011 8:18 PM, David Nyman wrote: On 30 September 2011 16:55, Bruno Marchalmarc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: They are ontologically primitive, in the sense that ontologically they are the only things which exist. even computations don't exist in that primitive sense. Computations already exists

Existence and Properties

2011-09-29 Thread Stephen P. King
On 9/29/2011 4:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Sep 2011, at 16:44, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/27/2011 10:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 27 Sep 2011, at 13:49, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/26/2011 7:56 PM, Jason Resch wrote: snip For well-defined propositions regarding the numbers I

Re: Existence and Properties

2011-09-29 Thread Stephen P. King
On 9/29/2011 10:36 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/29/2011 4:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Sep 2011, at 16:44, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/27/2011 10:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 27 Sep 2011, at 13:49, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/26/2011 7:56 PM, Jason Resch wrote: snip For