I also think that free will is a meaningless concept, for many
reasons. Like, let's say I'm in situation X and can choose A or B.
What is it that could make me choose differently in an otherwise
identical situation? Presumably my will. But the will has to be part
of me to be my free will, thus I'm
Marty,
Can you clarify the origins of the Lobian Machine?
Does it arise out of the theorem of Hugo Martin Lob?
Yes. I have often explained that theorem, years ago on this list (and
elsewhere) and I can have opportunities to explain it again. You can
see some of my
Subject: Re: Free will: Wrong entry.
Marty,
Can you clarify the origins of the Lobian Machine? Does it
arise out of the theorem of Hugo Martin Lob?
Yes. I have often explained that theorem, years ago on this list (and
elsewhere) and I can have opportunities
@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: Free will: Wrong entry.
On 17 Mar 2010, at 14:06, m.a. wrote:
But is there a deliberate feedback (of any kind) between first person and
UD?
No. The UD can be seen as a set of elementary arithmetical truth, realizing
- Original Message -
From: Bruno Marchal
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: Free will: Wrong entry.
Or, are you saying here that choices made by the (3rd
person) UD tend to be influenced by one's
On 17 Mar 2010, at 14:06, m.a. wrote:
But is there a deliberate feedback (of any kind) between first
person and UD?
No. The UD can be seen as a set of elementary arithmetical truth,
realizing through their many proofs, the many computations. It is the
least block-universe fro the
On 16 Mar 2010, at 02:55, m.a. wrote:
Bruno,
Another plea for understanding. For clarity I will
delete some questions from previous pages leaving only the ones that
continue to puzzle me, in bold type.
By computer I assume you're referring here to the arithmetical
- Original Message -
From: Bruno Marchal
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: Free will: Wrong entry.
On 16 Mar 2010, at 02:55, m.a. wrote:
Bruno
How can there be indeterminacy in comp when
On 16 Mar 2010, at 16:17, m.a. wrote:
By 3-determinacy I assume you mean 3rd person determinacy.
Yes. It is the content of the diary of an experimenter, teleporting
some rabbits or guinea pig, perhaps human.
As opposed to the first person view, which is the one described by the
rabbits,
, 2010 1:45 AM
Subject: Re: Free will: Wrong entry.
For a computer the input is man; for the brain the input might be God,
chance, spirits or what have you.
Both for the computer and man, the inputs are given by their most probable
universal neighbor, emerging from a competition among
On 14 Mar 2010, at 06:55, Brent Meeker wrote:
I could have said associated or attributed instead of
attached. To say that a brain is conscious is a category error.
My brain is not conscious (no more than a rock). The person who has
that brain can be said to be conscious.
So how does a
Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com writes:
So how does a person have a brain? Why does a computation need one?
To the Hindu, for example, God didn't create the universe, but God
became the universe. Then he forgot that he became the universe. Why
would God do this? Basically, for
On 12 Mar 2010, at 21:53, m.a. wrote:
I agree with you that quantum indeterminacy doesn't
affect (free) will: Quantum mechanics is local and deterministic,
and explains why it seems indeterministic to the 99,...% of the
observers. (3/12/2010 7:58 AM), which is why I
: Bruno Marchal
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: Free will: Wrong entry.
On 12 Mar 2010, at 21:53, m.a. wrote:
I agree with you that quantum indeterminacy doesn't affect
(free) will: Quantum mechanics is local
Bruno,
Would you comment on C.S.Soon et al, Unconscious determinants of free
decisions in the human brain, Nature Neuroscience, 11, 543 - 545
(2008) ? In this paper, the split second becomes 10 seconds.
Sorry if this has been addressed before in this list.
William
On Mar 13, 2010,
more, but it is already a lot.
Bruno
- Original Message -
From: Bruno Marchal
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: Free will: Wrong entry.
On 12 Mar 2010, at 21:53, m.a. wrote:
I agree with you that quantum
Hi William,
OK I found it on the net:
http://www.socialbehavior.uzh.ch/teaching/semsocialneurosciencespring09/Haynes_NatNeurosci_2008_ext.pdf
But my comment will consist in repeating what I am always saying about
free will or free decision.
The existence of free acts has nothing to do with
Bruno,
Thanks for your reply. Are your papers on your web site?
William
On Mar 13, 2010, at 10:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Hi William,
OK I found it on the net:
http://www.socialbehavior.uzh.ch/teaching/semsocialneurosciencespring09/Haynes_NatNeurosci_2008_ext.pdf
But my comment will
On 3/13/2010 10:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Hi William,
OK I found it on the net:
http://www.socialbehavior.uzh.ch/teaching/semsocialneurosciencespring09/Haynes_NatNeurosci_2008_ext.pdf
But my comment will consist in repeating what I am always saying about
free will or free decision.
The
Please see questions below (in bold).
- Original Message -
From: Bruno Marchal
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: Free will: Wrong entry.
On 13 Mar 2010, at 16:00, m.a. wrote:
Bruno,
Thanks
William,
On 13 Mar 2010, at 20:11, L.W. Sterritt wrote:
Thanks for your reply. Are your papers on your web site?
Yes. Most of them, except the first (pre-internet papers), and the
lasts.
The simplest in english is the one downloadable at:
On 13 Mar 2010, at 23:15, Brent Meeker wrote:
On 3/13/2010 10:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Hi William,
OK I found it on the net:
http://www.socialbehavior.uzh.ch/teaching/semsocialneurosciencespring09/Haynes_NatNeurosci_2008_ext.pdf
But my comment will consist in repeating what I am always
On 14 Mar 2010, at 03:35, m.a. wrote:
Please see questions below (in bold).
On 13 Mar 2010, at 16:00, m.a. wrote:
Bruno,
Thanks to your lucid explanation I begin to glimpse the
beauty of comp. Please check my reasoning here. If materialism is
correct, the brain can be
On 3/13/2010 9:17 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 13 Mar 2010, at 23:15, Brent Meeker wrote:
On 3/13/2010 10:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Hi William,
OK I found it on the net:
http://www.socialbehavior.uzh.ch/teaching/semsocialneurosciencespring09/Haynes_NatNeurosci_2008_ext.pdf
But my comment
Hi Brent,
We have discussed this a long time ago. Ah, perhaps it was on the FOR
list.
Free-will can only diminish when indeterminacy is added.
It is a product of awareness of ignorance on oneself, that an high
level construct. I appreciate infinitely both Kochen and Conway, but
on free
On 11 Mar 2010, at 23:14, Brent Meeker wrote:
On 3/11/2010 1:56 PM, m.a. wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Brent Meeker
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: Free will: Wrong entry.
On 3/11/2010 1:26 PM, m.a. wrote:
Bruno
- Original Message -
From: Bruno Marchal
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: Free will: Wrong entry.
Hi Brent,
We have discussed this a long time ago. Ah, perhaps it was on the FOR list.
Free-will can only
Marty,
I think the question, Do you believe in free will? could as easily
be, Do you believe in Santa Claus or God or Fate and on and on. We
loudly assert: I do what I want!! But without considering the
factors that influence (determine?) our wants and desires. No.I
don't suppose I
- Original Message -
From: Bruno Marchal
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Free will: Wrong entry.
Marty,
I think the question, Do you believe in free will? could as easily be,
Do you believe in Santa Claus
On 3/12/2010 4:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Hi Brent,
We have discussed this a long time ago. Ah, perhaps it was on the FOR list.
Free-will can only diminish when indeterminacy is added.
It is a product of awareness of ignorance on oneself, that an high level
construct. I appreciate infinitely
On 12 Mar 2010, at 18:34, m.a. wrote:
What sort of short cut are you talking about? I don't see any
short cuts here. I can see where people will find reasons afterwards
to justify their decisions by consulting conscience and notions of
good and bad, but that's all
a posterior.
On 12 Mar 2010, at 18:57, Brent Meeker wrote:
On 3/12/2010 4:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Hi Brent,
We have discussed this a long time ago. Ah, perhaps it was on the
FOR list.
Free-will can only diminish when indeterminacy is added.
It is a product of awareness of ignorance on oneself,
On 3/12/2010 11:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 12 Mar 2010, at 18:57, Brent Meeker wrote:
On 3/12/2010 4:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Hi Brent,
We have discussed this a long time ago. Ah, perhaps it was on the
FOR list.
Free-will can only diminish when indeterminacy is added.
It is a
Brent:
why should I accept opinions of (even respected!) scientists? I asked YOUR
opinion.
Old (ancient) savants based their conclusions on a much smaller cognitive
inventory of the world than what epistemy provided up-to-date. Furthermore
the
basic worldview they think 'in' is mostly different
- Original Message -
From: Bruno Marchal
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: Free will: Wrong entry.
On 12 Mar 2010, at 18:34, m.a. wrote:
What sort of short cut are you talking about? I don't see any short cuts
:
- Original Message -
From: Bruno Marchal
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: Free will: Wrong entry.
On 12 Mar 2010, at 18:34, m.a. wrote:
What sort of short cut are you talking about? I don't see any
short cuts here. I can see where
*Sent:* Friday, March 12, 2010 2:49 PM
*Subject:* Re: Free will: Wrong entry.
On 12 Mar 2010, at 18:34, m.a. wrote:
What sort of short cut are you talking about? I don't see any
short cuts here. I can see where people will find reasons
afterwards to justify
Bruno and John,
The confusion is my fault. I copied the URL from a
Kurzweil page heading when I should have gone to the article itself, so the
wrong feature appeared. This is the one I requested comments about:
http://www.physorg.com/news186830615.html
(Excerpts)
On 3/11/2010 1:26 PM, m.a. wrote:
*Bruno and John,*
* The confusion is my fault. I copied the
URL from a Kurzweil page heading when I should have gone to the
article itself, so the wrong feature appeared. This is the one
I requested comments about:*
- Original Message -
From: Brent Meeker
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: Free will: Wrong entry.
On 3/11/2010 1:26 PM, m.a. wrote:
Bruno and John,
The confusion is my fault. I
On 3/11/2010 1:56 PM, m.a. wrote:
- Original Message -
*From:* Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@dslextreme.com
*To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com
mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com
*Sent:* Thursday, March 11, 2010 4:38 PM
*Subject:* Re: Free will: Wrong
Brent, nice statement:
* But it's certainly not a deterministic universe *
**
I have to take your word, because the reference you gave said: * NOT
FOUND*
So what kind of a 'universe' is it? bootstrap, self reflecting autodidacta?
Creator-made?
John M
**
**
On 3/11/10, Brent Meeker
My apologies. I forgot that Lawrence National Laboratories no longer
hosted the physics archive. I should have cited:
http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0604079
The Free Will Theorem
Authors: John Conway
http://arxiv.org/find/quant-ph/1/au:+Conway_J/0/1/0/all/0/1, Simon
Kochen
- Original Message -
From: Brent Meeker
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: Free will: Wrong entry.
On 3/11/2010 1:56 PM, m.a. wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Brent Meeker
To: everything
I am a compatibilist. Free will necessitates determinism. It makes
people choosing to do what their want, notably when choosing between
alternatives. But they cannot choose what they want. This depends on
many factors.
Free will is a high level phenomenon. Adding indeterminacy is
Marchal
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 12:00 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Free will: Wrong entry.
I am a compatibilist. Free will necessitates determinism. It makes people
choosing to do what their want, notably when choosing between alternatives.
But they cannot choose what
46 matches
Mail list logo