Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On 29 Jul 2016, at 21:30, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> No idea what " two 3-1 "I" " is and very much doubt it is worth knowing. > See preceding posts. I tried that. It didn't help. You might need to be more specific

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> No idea what " two 3-1 "I" " is and very much doubt it is worth >> knowing. > > > See preceding posts. I tried that. It didn't help. >> If computationalism is correct then everything about "you" can >> be

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On 28 Jul 2016, at 21:56, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​> ​there are two 3-1 "I", ​No idea what ​ ​"​two 3-1 "I"​ " is ​and very much doubt it is worth knowing. See preceding posts. ​> ​Turing emulable telepathy. ​No

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > ​> ​ > there are two 3-1 "I", > ​No idea what ​ ​"​ two 3-1 "I" ​ " is ​ and very much doubt it is worth knowing. > ​> ​ > Turing emulable telepathy. > ​No idea what ​ ​" Turing emulable telepathy ​" is ​ and very

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On 28 Jul 2016, at 01:12, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​>​>>​ ​In the 1-view, which remain both unique from the 1- view. ​>> ​​Then which one has​​ ​THE UNIQUE 1-view, the Moscow man or the Washington ​man? ​> ​Both, from

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > ​> >>> ​>>​ >>> ​In the 1-view, which remain both unique from the 1-view. >> >> > ​>> ​ >> ​Then which one has​ >> ​ >> >> ​*THE UNIQUE* 1-view, the Moscow man or the Washington ​man? >> > ​> ​ > Both, from the 1-p

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On 27 Jul 2016, at 00:29, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 10:57 AM, Bruno ​ ​Marchal wrote: ​>> ​there was supposed to be one new bit of information that is known after the experiment but not before, ​> ​In the 1-view, which remain both unique from the

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 10:57 AM, Bruno ​ ​ Marchal wrote: > ​>> ​ >> there was supposed to be one new bit of information that is known after >> the experiment but not before, > > ​> ​ > In the 1-view, which remain both unique from the 1-view. > ​Then which one has​ ​*THE

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On 25 Jul 2016, at 22:40, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 1:16 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​>> ​So which one will become the Moscow Man? The one that will see Moscow. What more is there to say? ​> ​That it confirms the prediction "W v M" made in Helsinki,

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 1:16 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​>> ​ >> So which one will become the Moscow Man? The one that will see Moscow. >> What more is there to say? > > > ​> ​ > That it confirms the prediction "W v M" made in Helsinki, > ​ But there was supposed to be one new

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On 25 Jul 2016, at 00:06, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​> ​You betray that you are so much Aristotelian that ​Aristotle was a nitwit. ​ ​>​ It is *the* very idea of Plato that ​Plato was a nitwit.​ ​> ​Aristotle in a

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > ​> ​ > You betray that you are so much Aristotelian that > ​Aristotle was a nitwit. ​ > ​>​ > It is *the* very idea of Plato that ​Plato was a nitwit.​ ​> ​ > Aristotle in a nutshell > ​​ > ​Should remain

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

Errata: On 24 Jul 2016, at 16:55, Bruno Marchal wrote: It is Moscow and not Washington for all of them, and Washington and not Moscow for all for them, but the key point is that both agree that they could not predict that answer in advance, and that when opening the door, they knew in

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On 23 Jul 2016, at 19:24, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 11:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​> ​"our world" cannot be taken as a primitive notion in our setting. ​If nothing else I admire your courage, most people would be embarrassed to admit that they

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 11:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​> ​ > "our world" cannot be taken as a primitive notion in our setting. > ​If nothing else I admire your courage, most people would be embarrassed to admit that they don't accept reality. ​ ​> ​ > QM without collapse

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On 21 Jul 2016, at 20:15, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​> ​​"THE FPI" comes from nothing because in a world with FPI duplicating machines ​"THE FPI​" does not exist. ​> ​The FPI requires duplicating machines. ​We haven't

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > ​> ​ >> ​"THE FPI" comes from nothing because in a world with FPI duplicating >> machines ​ >> "THE FPI​" does not exist. >> > > ​> ​ > The FPI requires duplicating machines. > ​We haven't invented duplicating machines

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On 20 Jul 2016, at 01:31, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 3:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​>> ​That's right Bruno, keep sweeping those foggy thoughts and fractured logic under the "he" colored personal pronoun rug. ​> ​No problem, ​If there really is no

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 3:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​>> ​ >> That's right Bruno, keep sweeping those foggy thoughts and fractured >> logic under the "he" colored personal pronoun rug. > > > ​> ​ > No problem, ​If there really is no problem why does Bruno Marchal refuse to

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On 18 Jul 2016, at 23:38, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​> ​The Helsinki guy now that he will survive, ​Only if there is a person or if there are persons who remember being the Helsinki guy. ​ No problem. ​> ​and that

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​> ​ > The Helsinki guy now that he will survive, > ​Only if there is a person or if there are persons who remember being the Helsinki guy. ​ > ​> ​ > and that he cannot have the simultaneous first person experience >

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On 14 Jul 2016, at 21:49, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​​>>> ​The better prediction was "W v M and I have no clue which one". ​​>> ​The better prediction about WHAT? ​> ​About the first person experience ​There is no such

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On 15 Jul 2016, at 22:16, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 7:42 PM, Jason Resch wrote: ​> ​I printed the following "Duplicate Questionnaire" and gave one to both John-Washington, and John-Moscow. The ​ ​ questionnaires each had 8 questions: ​1. What city

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 7:42 PM, Jason Resch wrote: ​> ​ >> I printed the following "Duplicate Questionnaire" and gave one to both >> John-Washington, and John-Moscow. The >> ​ ​ >> questionnaires each had 8 questions: > > ​1. What city did you last recall being in?

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

I printed the following "Duplicate Questionnaire" and gave one to both John-Washington, and John-Moscow. The questionnaires each had 8 questions: 1. What city did you last recall being in? 2. How many cities do you see now? 3. What is the name of the city you see before you? 4. True/False: You

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​ > ​>>> ​ > The better prediction was "W v M and I have no clue which one". ​ > ​>> ​ > The better prediction about WHAT? > > ​> ​ > About the first person experience > ​There is no such thing as *THE* first person

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On 14 Jul 2016, at 00:52, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​>> ​​Which turned out to be the better prediction, Moscow or Washington?​ And was the prediction about John Clark or was it about some mysterious figure named "you"?

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​>> ​ >> ​Which turned out to be the better prediction, Moscow or Washington?​ And >> was the prediction about John Clark or was it about some mysterious figure >> named "you"? > > > ​> ​ > The better prediction was "W v M

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On 12 Jul 2016, at 00:15, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 11, 2016, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​​>> ​1) Each​ copy saw only one city. ​> ​Excellent! That is the correct 1-view description. Now, you just need to interview each copy about the prediction made in Helsinki and

Re: Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

On Mon, Jul 11, 2016, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​ >> ​>> ​ >> 1) Each >> ​ >> copy saw only one city. > > > ​> ​ > Excellent! That is the correct 1-view description. Now, you just need to > interview each copy about the prediction made in Helsinki and written in > the diary to

Holiday Exercise (was: self (was Re: Aristotle the Nitwit

Those tired of Clark's argument can skip up to the (more interesting) Holiday Exercise below. My be this could help Clark to try to find a new argument, as again, he just brought his usual invalid trick, as I show one last times. On 10 Jul 2016, at 19:29, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Jul