Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-05 Thread Alberto G. Corona
? This is what I suspect he is going for. To be the Dawkins of physics. -Original Message- From: freqflyer07281972 thismind...@gmail.com To: everything-list everyth...@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, Dec 3, 2013 9:17 pm Subject: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether

Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-05 Thread LizR
On 5 December 2013 21:53, Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com wrote: I´m very interested in what you question. One of the wonders of life is how a living being select relevant information from the environment for their needs. I think that the aestetic sense is a heavy part of the activity

Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-05 Thread Alberto G. Corona
As far as I remember, the entropy of the black hole is measured in absolute terms. that is, taking the information from the most fundamental level, at the Planck scale. But the entropy of a jar is relative to the jar broken state, not absolute. The example of a gas is more clear than the one of

Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-05 Thread Jesse Mazer
I think with black holes there's a physically natural coarse-graining defined by the no-hair theorem which says that in classical general relativity, the only distinguishing characteristics of black holes are mass, charge and angular momentum, they bear no other traces of the particular

Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-05 Thread meekerdb
On 12/5/2013 2:35 AM, LizR wrote: On 5 December 2013 21:53, Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com mailto:agocor...@gmail.com wrote: I´m very interested in what you question. One of the wonders of life is how a living being select relevant information from the environment for their

Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-05 Thread LizR
On 6 December 2013 08:08, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: The hypothesis is that BHs have entropy the same way as everything else, except that the microscopic degrees of freedom are in spacetime - which isn't understood. So are you saying that black holes have emergent entropy, and that

Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-05 Thread meekerdb
On 12/5/2013 5:18 PM, LizR wrote: On 6 December 2013 08:08, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: The hypothesis is that BHs have entropy the same way as everything else, except that the microscopic degrees of freedom are in spacetime - which isn't

Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-05 Thread LizR
On 6 December 2013 14:35, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Yeah, that's Susskinds firewall idea. Just above the event horizon, within a few Planck lengths, the strings corresponding to stuff that fell in are spread over the surface and their degrees of freedom account for the entropy.

Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 04 Dec 2013, at 03:17, freqflyer07281972 wrote: Hey everyone, Here is a question for Bruno (and anyone else who wants to chime in) -- I came across this post over at Sean Carroll's Preposterous Universe blog, wherein he seems to be claiming that the relationship between information,

Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-04 Thread Alberto G. Corona
Yes there is no loss of information* at the lowest level,* that is at the quantum level . But at the lowest level, there is NO notion of HEAT. only speeds and momentums of elementary particles. HEAT and temperature and entropy are statistical parameters, words used in the macroscopical laws to

Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-04 Thread spudboy100
Regarding the question of whether information is physical. Hey everyone, Here is a question for Bruno (and anyone else who wants to chime in) -- I came across this post over at Sean Carroll's Preposterous Universe blog, wherein he seems to be claiming that the relationship between information

Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-04 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 12:03 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: But if the processes are reversible (and they can be) then there is no entropy increase and no heat. But if it's reversible then there is no irreversible change in information either (such as what you'd get if you erased

Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-04 Thread spudboy100
? -Original Message- From: Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:38 am Subject: Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical. Yes there is no loss of information at the lowest

Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-04 Thread Craig Weinberg
. -Original Message- From: freqflyer07281972 thismind...@gmail.com javascript: To: everything-list everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript: Sent: Tue, Dec 3, 2013 9:17 pm Subject: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical. Hey everyone, Here is a question

Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-04 Thread Alberto G. Corona
Message- From: Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:38 am Subject: Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical. Yes there is no loss of information* at the lowest level

Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-04 Thread meekerdb
A good exposition. It doesn't address the questions of the alignment of thermodynamic, radiation, and spacetime expansion though. This paper may be of interest: Arrows of Time in the Bouncing Universes of the No-boundary Quantum State James Hartle

Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-04 Thread Alberto G. Corona
...@gmail.com To: everything-list everyth...@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, Dec 3, 2013 9:17 pm Subject: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical. Hey everyone, Here is a question for Bruno (and anyone else who wants to chime in) -- I came across

Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-04 Thread Craig Weinberg
- From: freqflyer07281972 thismind...@gmail.com To: everything-list everyth...@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, Dec 3, 2013 9:17 pm Subject: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical. Hey everyone, Here is a question for Bruno (and anyone else who wants

Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-03 Thread freqflyer07281972
Hey everyone, Here is a question for Bruno (and anyone else who wants to chime in) -- I came across this posthttp://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2013/11/28/thanksgiving-8/over at Sean Carroll's Preposterous Universe blog, wherein he seems to be claiming that the relationship between

Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical.

2013-12-03 Thread meekerdb
On 12/3/2013 6:17 PM, freqflyer07281972 wrote: Hey everyone, Here is a question for Bruno (and anyone else who wants to chime in) -- I came across this post http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2013/11/28/thanksgiving-8/ over at Sean Carroll's Preposterous Universe blog, wherein he seems