Hi Bruno Marchal The rational view of God can be discussed logically and publicly, such as in the philosophy of religion. But according to Christian (especially Lutheran) tradition, that is only a description of God. There is also a Living God (also called the Word, or the Christ) that can only be experienced , this being a gift that only God can give one, through the gift of faith or trust.
Here again we have the world split up into rational thought vs experience, which is not only true of religion, but of all man's life and understanding. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/7/2012 Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function." ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-06, 13:21:12 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence Hi Roger, I know, Roger. I was addressing John Clark, who confirmed my feeling that atheists are the number one defender of the Christian's conception of God. Your's is obviously closer to Plato and the general machine's theology. It is bit sad you don't listen to what the machines already can tell us. You can interpret the work of G?el, L?, ... Solovay, as a initial interview of the ideally correct self-referential machine. The modal logics G and G* axiomatize the propositional logics of such discourses. G* includes the machine's silence, which are rather important for the 'mystical' part of the universal machine. I will be direct. In your post you defend truth and vocabulary, where I prefer hypothesis, reasoning and testing. Especially in theology. Bruno On 05 Sep 2012, at 18:07, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal I've been defending cosmic intelligence (CI) or Cosmic Mind, of Life , not the christian God, not the whole shebang, the Trinity. But actually I think they're probably all the same. CI was there before the world was created-- for sure, else the world could not have been created. But since CI created time and space the argument is irrevant. And I don't know what God can think, that much is Christian. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/5/2012 Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function." ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-05, 09:51:40 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On 04 Sep 2012, at 18:42, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote: > God created the human race. And when God asks Himself the question "Why have I always existed, why haven't I always not existed?" what answer in his omniscience does He come up with? The neoplatonist conception of God does not allow It to ask such a question. Nor does Arithmetical Truth. God has no self-reference power at all, as this would make it inconsistent. Still defending the Christian God, aren't you? Bruno > God is the uncreated infinite intelligence There was once a patent issued for a combination rat trap and potato peeler and people laugh about that, but using the exact same organ for both excretory and reproductive purposes does not seem very intelligent to me either, much less infinitely intelligent. And putting the blood vessels and nerves for the retina of the eye in front not in the back so the light must pass through them to get to the light sensitive cells also does not seem very smart; no engineer in his right mind would place the gears to move the film in a camera so that the light must pass through the gears before hitting the film. That's not the sort of thing you'd expect God to do, but it's exactly what you'd expect Evolution to do. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
